Posted: 8/11/2008 7:09:17 AM EDT
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We have a front door and two back doors that go to the backyard/patio. The current doors are wood... real garbage. We want to replace them but we were figuring more on fiberglass. Sturdy, but not really heavy or overly expensive. We have a guy that came and measured the doors and is really pushing these steel once... "kick in proof, blah blah blah" It just seems like overkill in a residential subdivision with backyard neighbors all over the place and pretty minimal break-ins. The price is something around $169/door and about $30 installation, but it's just replacing the door and not the enture frame with the door. The doors we looked at at Home Depot were about $100/fiberglass door on the frame, but the install was ridiculous... like $350/door. Suggestion/recommendations. |
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If you're not going steel at least get the solid core wood doors. Fiberglass won't keep out a determined 5 year old. And that fancy new steel door installed in your old unimproved wood frame will actually make it easier to kick in; that old door frame just won't hold up to the mass of the new door when the jackboots hammer it with the ram. We're in the process of designing our new house and every exterior door is going to be steel in a steel frame. (OK, the Mrs. probably won't stand for window-less steel all-around, so maybe the front will have some glass, but that glass is going to be set in steel). |
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There was a video posted a while back about a black lady living alone in an upscale north Dallas neighborhood. The video was from her home security system and was of an attempted home invasion. The perps are seen cutting the phone lines, and making every effort to forcibly enter with clear intent to do evil. The steel doors saved her life that night. If you can afford it, do it! |
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I should have mentioned we're moving... it's just to entice a buyer... since the current doors are wood and so old if you kicked them you're foot would get stuck in the hole you just made. The guy said something about putting in a steel jam into the frame... but the hinge side wouldn't be reinforced so I'm guessing if someone kicked it in it would just bust open on the hinge side... no? |
Why don't we see other homes like this? Is it against code or something to have the doors open outward? This is what I want to do with my house right now. Anyone got more info? Sorry for the hijack. Wes |
The hinges cost more since they either need to have welded pins or studs on the hinge leaves to prevent popping the hinge pin to open the door. |
So I take it these steel doors are rather heavy?
How hard would it be to put a hook or something on the handle of a steel door and yank the whole door off? Or would the knob break before anything else came loose. |
The knob will fail before anything else. |
Due to windstorm regulations, outward opening doors are code where we live. All of our aluminum-clad french doors open outwards. It's weird, but they do have advantages. |
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I replaced the doors on my house with fiberglass. They have the look of wood, but dont warp, split, etc like wood does. The steel doors are nice, but like anything can be broken into. If a thief wants in, they will get in, if needed through a window. Also the steel is very thin, around a 18ga IIRC. Remember a honest person will never know if your door is locked or not. |
Exactly. I have a solid core wood door up front and a hollow core steel door out back. All I think I should do is add those strike plates to support the frame and deadbolt connection. I might even make my own out of some 1/8" plate. But in the end there is a friggin 4' wide single pane window right next to both doors. Hell, my Boxer punched out one of the panes when a cat walked up. I would love to replace them with double pane and window alarms but I don't plan on owning this house forever. |
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If someone wants to get into a house they will get in. People ask me all the time about how secure their 6' glass slider door will be. "Can this be pried open?" "Can we put a board in the track for extra security?" Sure do whatever you want but it's 6' of glass that someone can throw a rock through and walk right into your house. My point is Steel, wood or Fiberglass are all the same security level if your house has windows. Someone already said the lock will fail before the door. Get fiberglass because it looks much better and takes paint better than steel. The only steel doors I use are from the garage to the house to comply with firecode. |
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I building soon and have thought about all this. As other posters have said, why have a door that's steel and/or opening out if you are going to have a window anywhere? Only special thing I'm doinf for doors is fingerprint or keypad entry. Not really for security, but for simplicity and giving access to family without having to give a key. |
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All you are trying to do is make sure it causes noise and commotion trying to break in. Most frame houses are very easy to get into. Vinyl siding cuts very easily, and aluminum is not a lot better. The underlayment will take a little more work if it is wood. A battery powered sawzall will get in very quickly, but it will make noise. Many sliders can simply be lifted off the track and removed. The lock will give way very easily to prying the panel upwards. Masonry houses can be entered through the windows unless you want bars everywhere. The 'prison look' is not very good. A decent size dog will turn many guys around. They are not going to find out how friendly it is. |
I bought one of these at Lowes yesterday. Not as good as the full door height strike plate but this was only $4, the mail order ones are closer to $100. I think this and the 3" screws it comes with should make it a good bit stronger and it gives me a chance to break out the router.  
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Yeah, that story had some more to it. It was suggested she was involved with an unsavory crowd that knew there were valuables in her house. She was bulgarized once before I believe. She then went out and installed better security, a camera recording system, and a nice shiny AR-15 which she displayed on TV stating, she'd be ready for them next time. I think she was sending a message to the people she suspected was attacking her using the news channel as a free message board. |
The windows can be protected with some architectural security bars. |
Only if the door is on the outside or the jamb is in a metal building. A hydraulic jack will expand even a steel door jamb enough to free the bolt. |
No doubt, and a tank can roll right through the house too. Most homeowners are trying to establish reasonable measures to slow down and deter the home intruder. Time is the enemy of such scumbags. The more time they spend trying to open your door or smash and climb through a window the better. So a steel door with a steel jamb or steel security plate, etc. help to slow down the criminal. There are some tasteful window security cages/bars that can be installed that don't make your house look like a prison. The best bet seems to be a security system with zoned cameras that provide real-time internet video streams. So if a break in occurs at least some evidence is available. |
If you go to rob a place and you are driving a vehicle there is a good chance you may have a jack with you. It was a valid point. |
Time consuming and high profile. Unless the home is being targeted for something specific like a 4 million dollar Renoir, burglars will pick the path of least resistance. |
Too slow, too heavy, and insufficient excursion. The hydraulic jamb-spreaders used by SWAT are very fast, and make short work of the average standard steel door frame. You can defeat them, but it requires a very specialized door. Thugs don't have hydraulic entry tools, or rams, or explosives... and even if they did, they usually don't have actual breacher training to know how to use them effectively (it's not as easy as it looks). Strong doors are great... but you should reinforce your windows around them as well. Get impact glass, or film the inside of your windows with the Mylar that bonds to your frames. It makes the glass very hard to break in, and slows down your average burglar. If they've got a portable sawzall or chainsaw, they can get through it, but that takes time and makes a bunch of noise... all very detrimental to the career and continued good health of the average residential burglar. |
Go with keypad. The false approval rate is disturbingly high for finger print scanners. Which is why most finger print scanners are manned by people and have photo identification to confirm id aswel. I did a study on them a few years back. they can also rejected authorised users freqently |
How can a jack used to lift a car be used to jack open a closed house door? I am very curious as the jacks I have seen would not be able to do this. |
Please elucidate on these specialized doors. Also, if building a house, consider installing Rolladen shutters (pretty standard in Germany). They can be built in so as to be invisible when open, and they can be had in extruded aluminum. Once closed, they certainly can be penetrated, but the noise and hassle to do so would be enormous. |
What about using 3m film to make the windows shatter resistant? |
Most residential steel doors have only a single locking point... that is, a single knob/deadbolt combo situated almost directly opposite the middle hinge. A hydraulic spreader bar can be placed in the door frame at that point (here is a link showing the same concept being used in a vehicle extrication) to push the frame out, such that the tongue of the lock/deadbolt no longer contacts the frame. Done correctly, the door will literally swing right open. This requires some expertise, the proper technique/equipment (the tools are NOT cheap), and a portable hydraulic pump. There are heavy doors that can't be opened this way, but the only ones I've seen that would defeat these are >five figures in price. They have multiple locking bolts (like a safe door... lock-side, hinge-side, top, and bottom). Even if you go that hard-core, there are any number of other ways for a well-equipped team to make entry to your home, particularly if they have explosive breaching capability. When they have access to the full range of tools, and time to plan it, you almost can't stop them. |
Shater resistant films just hold the broken pieces together. A knife quickly goes through the film once the glass is broken. |
The jack is used to spread the door jamb enough to allow the lock bolt to no longer be captive. Any car jack and a piece of wood to make up the required length will do the job. For frame buildings there are manually operated expanders that can be placed on the jamb and simply lifting the lever arm up extends them enough to force the jamb wider. All you can do is create delay and noise when someone tries to force entry. An exterior metal door (swing out) in a masonry building with a grouted jamb (after jamb installation the gap from the masonry to the jamb is filled with grout) is about as tough as you are going to get. With decent lock bars it will take explosives to breech the door. |
Outward-opening steel doors will stop kick-ins... but they can be breached; ask any fireman who has experience with the "irons" (Hooligan/Hallagan tools, maul/breaching sledge, etc). Even if your outward-opening door is heavy enough to resist attack with standard tools, it can be opened with "the bunny" (rabbit or jack-rabbit tool... also sold by Hurst). I'm not trying to run down or discourage you folks from buying steel doors... you SHOULD buy them (if you like how they look on your house). Most of those doors will stop the average knucklehead home invader/burglar in his tracks. If you're trying to stop the SWAT team, not only are you looking at a VERY difficult task, but attempting to reach that level of security will look like crap, and be cost-prohibitive for the vast majority of people. I've seen some of the measures that drug kingpins have used to attempt to secure their homes... and believe me... they really tried. Even with all that, with time to plan, the ability to surveil the location, and the correct tools for an assault, one can get through those doors and inside the house quicker than you'd ever imagine. |
Well heck, just about any keyed lock can be picked quicker than you can knock the door down. |
It makes it easy for someone to block the doors and lock you in though... |
Once you have made it harder to kick in the door, than go through a window, you don't need to make the door stronger... The fiberglass doors are really nice as they are well-insulated, stable, and low-maintenance compared to wood. |
You've got windows, right? |
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Home Depot sells pretty thin gauge metal doors and frames. If you need higher security, you need real hollow-metal doors and frames like these: Curries If you install 14g doors and welded frames, you will definitly slow down the bad guys. Expect to pay alot more for these than for the Home Depot stuff. |
If it opens to the outside, the hinges are on the outside. Pull the hinge pins and the door comes off.... |
Do you honestly think that no one has ever thought about that? There are security hinges available, but something as simple as this would generally defeat your approach: 
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A roll pin installed through the door pin/hinge is easier. Covered over with paint to hide the roll pin has worked for me. |
Or a concrete building! |