Posted: 8/19/2009 7:54:04 AM EDT
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From a Christian standpoint, there is not a leg to stand on here. From a soverign God standpoint, anything is possible with God. God can use what He will to send someone a message for His good purpose. Pray and seek and you will find. Sorry about your loss. My mother is at the edge as this is written. God Bless you :)
Don |
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Very interesting topic. I don't know exactly what we'll see at the moment of death. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the veil separating us from the afterlife gets very thin in those last few moments. Actually Shane it wasn't those "last few moments" of life where the change in face occured, it was just after that last breath, just after exhaleing, when the change occured. But, I do think that the veil separating us from this place to the next place probably does get very thin prior to actual death. And you know what else that I am just remembering about all that, was how after they had been prepared for burial, the "plain" face was back on them. I saw this in my stepdad's face, but also in my brothers face when we had his body flown here to his home state for burial. You didn't mention it, if you had ever been with anyone at that last breath of life. May I ask? Though I've lost friends and family over the years, I was never present at the moment of death. |
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This may sound odd and morbid but I give a lot of thought to that “Last breath” that separates life from death.
I often find myself thinking about just what transpires at that last flicker of life...that last moment of my life. As a kind of hobby (long story) I picked up my EMT-I license a few years ago and in during that process I was directly involved in performing chest compressions on two people who quite literally died in my presence and care. One was in the ER and one in the back of a Ambulance. I didn’t know either of them personally but both cases reminded me of just how quickly and violently one can go from carrying on their day to day life… ...to that last heart beat that is the doorway to eternity. I can’t say that either individual went peacefully or had certain look on their face but I suppose that might be the nature with medical and traumatic emergencies. I did encounter several individuals who while they were in serious traumatic accidents had a certain peaceful presence about them….I can’t say for sure whether any of them ended up dying or not. I do remember one elderly lady who was in an automobile accident driving home from church. While she was in serious condition she didn’t seem concerned at all for herself but would only ask about the occupant of the other car. She certainly had a presence of peace about her. One the topic of Death, Over the years I’ve come across a few things regarding death that stick in my mind. Two are factual stories one fiction and one in song…bear with me and Ill post em all. |
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The first is the recorded last few hours and minutes of life of Stonewall Jacksons life.
I’m kind of a Stonewall fan so maybe that’s one of the reasons this sticks with me. I’ll just copy and past the excerpt right from the web page. If you would like to read the whole thing copy the link. http://www.historynet.com/americas-civil-war-stonewall-jacksons-last-days.htm Or an even better link. (I love the language of John Esten Cooke) http://books.google.com/books?id=9HsEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA443&lpg=PA443&dq=last+moments+of+Stonewall+Jackson&source=bl&ots=-GYKeN4np0&sig=g3ighndR5JIrxuZoz_bmLkydRJQ&hl=en&ei=3GCMSsaZC5aCtge81d3kBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false " That night Jackson rallied somewhat. His wife had arrived earlier in the day. ‘She was a devoted wife and earnest Christian, and endeared us all to her by her great kindness and gentleness,’ wrote McGuire. ‘The General’s joy at the presence of his wife and child was very great, and for him unusually demonstrative. Noticing the sadness of his wife, he said to her tenderly: ‘I know you would gladly give your life for me, but I am perfectly resigned. Do not be sad. I hope I may yet recover. Pray for me, but always remember in your prayers to use the petition, Thy will be done.” The next day, McGuire dressed Jackson’s wounds again, noting that they were continuing to heal. The pain in Jackson’s side had diminished, but he was now breathing with difficulty and complaining of exhaustion. McGuire consulted with several other doctors, ‘and all that human skill could devise was done to stay the hand of death.’ However, Jackson was growing weaker by the hour. ‘When his child was brought to him [the next day] he played with it for some time, frequently caressing it and calling it his ‘little comforter,” McGuire observed. ‘At one time he raised his wounded hand above his head and closing his eyes, was for some moments silently engaged in prayer. He said to me: ‘I see from the number of physicians that you think my condition dangerous, but I thank God, if it is His will, that I am ready to go.” At about daybreak on Sunday, May 10, Mrs. Jackson told her husband that his recovery was very doubtful and that he should prepare for the worst. Jackson was silent for a moment, then said, ‘It will be infinite gain to be translated to Heaven.’ He advised his wife to return to her father’s home, adding, ‘You have a kind and good father, but there is no one so kind and good as your Heavenly Father.’ He requested to be buried at Lexington, Va. Jackson became increasingly exhausted, and at 11 a.m. his wife knelt beside his bed and told him that before the sun went down he would be with his savior. Jackson replied, ‘Oh, no; you are frightened, my child; death is not so near; I may yet get well.’ Mrs. Jackson collapsed weeping on the bed, telling him that the doctors had said there was no hope. After a moment’s pause, he asked to see McGuire. ‘Doctor, Anna informs me that you have told her that I am to die today; is it so?’ he asked. McGuire admitted the hopelessness of the situation. Jackson turned his eyes toward the ceiling and gazed for a moment or two in deep thought, then replied, ‘Very good, very good, it is all right.’ When Pendleton came into the sickroom at 1 o’clock that afternoon, Jackson asked who had preached at headquarters that day. Pendleton told him the entire army was praying for his recovery. Jackson replied, ‘Thank God, they are very kind.’ He added: ‘It is the Lord’s Day; my wish is fulfilled. I have always desired to die on Sunday.’ Jackson’s mind began to wander, McGuire observed, and he frequently gave orders as though still on the battlefield. ‘Then the scene shifted and he was at the mess-table, in conversation with members of his staff; now with his wife and child; now at prayers with his military family.’ McGuire offered him some brandy and water, but Jackson declined, saying, ‘It will only delay my departure, and do no good; I want to preserve my mind, if possible, to the last.’ Told that he had at most two hours to live, he answered, feebly but firmly, ‘Very good, it is all right.’ A few moments before he died, Jackson cried out in delirium: ‘Order A.P. Hill to prepare for action! Pass the infantry to the front rapidly! Tell Major Hawks–’ The sentence was left unfinished. ‘Presently a smile of ineffable sweetness spread itself over his pale face,’ McGuire noted, ‘and he cried quietly and with an expression as if of relief, ‘Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees’; and then, without pain or the least struggle, his spirit passed from earth to the God who gave it.’ " What a great end for a great man. |
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Years ago I read the following story in a book written by Corrie Ten Boom titled “In my Fathers House” and it has stuck with me over the years.
For those who don’t know Corrie’s story, her family was suspected of hiding Jews in their Holland home during WW2. Her entire family was arrested and her Father died within a few weeks while in prison. Corrie and her sister were moved to the Ravensbruck concentration camp where her sister Betsy would die. After her release Corrie traveled the world telling whomever would listen of the love and forgiveness found in Jesus Christ. Corrie’s writing style is not what some might call “college level” but it is fitting for the stories she tells. " Just a Boy Named Henk: Henk was a boy who was a member of my Bible class for the mentally retarded. He came from a family with eleven children, and it was difficult for his poor tired mother to give him much attention. It was from this simple little boy that I saw again how the Holy Spirit reveals himself in such a marvelous way to the low-IQ people. Once I visited Henk at home, and his mother received me with such a thankful manner. “Henk talks so much about the stories you tell in Bible class. He never remembers anything about any other class, but when he comes from your class he talks to his brothers and sisters about it.” “Is Henk home?” “He’s in his room upstairs…in the corner of the attic. He’s there most of the time…he really is my easiest boy. We know he’ll never become a professor or anything important, but he does work for a salary-he’s in a government workshop were he makes clothespins the whole day. Dear Henk, he’s so satisfied, but when he’s at home the house is so full of noise that he goes to his attic room.” I went upstairs and found Henk on his knees in front of a dirty picture of Jesus on the cross. I stopped at the door to listen, for Henk was singing. His voice was soft and hoarse. Out of my bondage, sorrow and night, Jesus, I come, Jesus, I come; Into Thy freedom, gladness and light, Jesus, I come to thee. Out of the depths of ruin untold, Into the peace of Thy sheltering fold, Ever Thy glorious face to behold, Jesus, I come to Thee. I’ve heard Bach played by Schweitzer, and anthems sung by gigantic choirs, but at that moment I felt as if I were in a cathedral with angles surrounding me. I tiptoed back downstairs without disturbing him, praising God again for the love He brings into the lives of “even the least of them.” Some time latter I heard that Henk’s mother had gone into his attic room and found him before the chair, with the picture of Jesus in his hand. Henk was home with his Lord. When I heard about his death I wonderd if he had been singing, “Jesus, I come to Thee” at that last moment. " I wonder the same thing. |
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A couple years ago I watched my grandmother pass away. She was a true believer.
She was laying in the bed with the back raised to about 30 deg. She was listening to us talk and moving her head but could not speak. She then looked staight up at the ceiling, arching her neck. She took her final breath with a smile on her face and a single tear rolled down her cheek as she closed her eyes. I had never seen anthing like it in my 40 yrs. While sad that she was gone, I felt a great sense of peace and believe without a doubt she was happy to go. |
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This one while fiction is considered one of the best works of fiction ever written.
It’s a portion of the last chapter of John Bunyan’s “ Pilgrims Progress.” It is said that Pilgrims Progress stands next to the Bible as the second book to be translated into the most languages. Of course this is skipping through one of Histories greatest books right to the last few paragraphs so in no way does It do the book justice. I highly recommend anyone to not only read the book but read about John Bunyan himself! This ones a long one! " The Last Difficulties These men asked the pilgrims whence they came, and they told them; they also asked them where they had lodged, what difficulties and dangers, what comforts and pleasures they had met in the way; and they told them. Then said the men that met them, "You have but two difficulties more to meet with, and then you are in the City." CHRISTIAN then, and his companion, asked the men to go along with them; so they told them they would. "But," said they, "you must obtain it by your own faith." So I saw in my dream that they went on together till they came in sight of the gate. Now I further saw that betwixt them and the gate was a river; but there was no bridge to go over: the river was very deep. At the sight, therefore, of this river, the pilgrims were much astounded; but the men that went with them said, "You must go through, or you cannot come at the gate." The pilgrims then began to inquire if there was no other way to the gate; to which they answered, "Yes, but there hath not any, save two, to wit, Enoch and Elijah, been permitted to tread that path since the foundation of the world, nor shall until the last trumpet shall sound". The pilgrims then––especially CHRISTIAN––began to despond in their minds; and looked this way and that, but no way could be found by them by which they might escape the river. Then they asked the men if the waters were all of a depth? They said, "No"; yet they could not help them in that case, for said they, "you shall find it deeper or shallower as you believe in the King of the place." They then addressed themselves to the water; and entering, CHRISTIAN began to sink. And crying out to his good friend, HOPEFUL, he said, "I sink in deep waters, the billows go over my head; all his waves go over me." Then said the other, "Be of good cheer, my brother; I feel the bottom, and it is good." Then said CHRISTIAN, "Ah! my friend, the sorrows of death have compassed me about; I shall not see the land that flows with milk and honey. And with that a great darkness and horror fell upon CHRISTIAN, so that he could not see before him; also here he, in great measure, lost his senses, so that he could neither remember nor orderly talk of any of those sweet refreshments that he had met with in the way of his pilgrimage. But all the words that he spake still tended to discover that he had horror of mind, and hearty fears that he should die in that river, and never obtain entrance in at the gate; here also, as they that stood by perceived, he was much in the troublesome thoughts of the sins that he had committed, both since and before he began to be a pilgrim. 'Twas also observed that he was troubled with apparitions of hobgoblins and evil spirits; for ever and anon he would intimate so much by words. HOPEFUL, therefore, here had much ado to keep his brother's head above water; yea, sometimes he would be quite gone down, and then ere awhile he would rise up again half dead. HOPEFUL also would endeavour to comfort him, saying, "Brother, I see the gate, and men standing by it to receive us." But CHRISTIAN would answer, "'Tis you, 'tis you they wait for; you have been hopeful ever since I knew you." "And so have you," said he to CHRISTIAN. "Ah, brother," said he, "surely, if I was right, he would now arise to help me; but, for my sins, he hath brought me into the snare, and hath left me." Then said HOPEFUL, "My brother, you have quite forgot the text where it is said of the wicked, 'There are no bands in their death, but their strength is firm; they are not in trouble as other men, neither are they plagued like other men'. These troubles and distresses that you go through in these waters are no sign that God hath forsaken you; but are sent to try you, whether you will call to mind that which heretofore you have received of his goodness, and live upon him in your distresses." Then I saw in my dream that CHRISTIAN was as in a muse awhile, to whom also HOPEFUL added this word, "Be of good cheer, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole "; and with that CHRISTIAN brake out with a loud voice, "Oh, I see him again! and he tells me, 'When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee'". Then they both took courage, and the enemy was after that as still as a stone, until they were gone over. CHRISTIAN therefore presently found ground to stand upon; and so it followed that the rest of the river was but shallow. Thus they got over. Now upon the bank of the river, on the other side, they saw the two shining men again who there waited for them; wherefore, being come up out of the river, they saluted them, saying, "We are ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for those that shall be heirs of salvation." Thus they went along towards the gate. Now you must note that the City stood upon a mighty hill; but the pilgrims went up that hill with ease, because they had these two men to lead them up by the arms; also they had left their mortal garments behind them in the river; for though they went in with them, they came out without them. They therefore went up here with much agility and speed; though the foundation upon which the City was framed was higher than the clouds. They therefore went up through the regions of the air, sweetly talking as they went; being comforted, because they safely got over the river, and had such glorious companions to attend them. Welcome The talk they had with the Shining Ones was about the glory of the place; who told them that the beauty and glory of it was inexpressible. "There," said they, "is the Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem; the innumerable company of angels; and the spirits of just men made perfect. You are going now," said they, "to the Paradise of God; wherein you shall see the tree of life, and eat of the never fading fruits thereof. And when you come there, you shall have white robes given you; and your walk and talk shall be every day with the King, even all the days of eternity. There you shall not see again such things as you saw when you were in the lower region upon the earth: to wit, sorrow, sickness, affliction, and death; for the former things are passed away. You are going now to Abraham, to Isaac, and Jacob, and to the prophets; men that God hath taken away from the evil to come, and that are now resting upon their beds, each one walking in his righteousness". The men then asked, "What must we do in the holy place?" To whom it was answered: "You must there receive the comfort of all your toil, and have joy for all your sorrow; you must reap what you have sown, even the fruit of all your prayers, and tears, and sufferings for the King by the way. In that place you must wear crowns of gold, and enjoy the perpetual sight and visions of the Holy One; for there you shall see him as he is. There, also, you shall serve him continually with praise, with shouting, and thanksgiving; whom you desired to serve in the world, though with much difficulty, because of the infirmity of your flesh. There your eyes shall be delighted with seeing, and your ears with hearing the pleasant voice of, the mighty One. There you shall enjoy your friends again, that are got thither before you; and there you shall with joy receive even every one that follows into the holy place after you. There, also, you shall be clothed with glory and majesty, and put into an equipage fit to ride out with the King of Glory. When he shall come with sound of trumpet in the clouds, as upon the wings of the wind, you shall come with him; and when he shall sit upon the Throne of Judgment, you shall sit by him; yea, and when he shall pass sentence upon all the workers of iniquity, let them be angels or men, you also shall have a voice in that Judgment, because they were his and your enemies. Also, when he shall again return to the City, you shall go too, with sound of trumpet, and be ever with him." Now, while they were thus drawing towards the gate, behold a company of the heavenly host came out to meet them; to whom it was said, by the other two Shining Ones, "These are the men that have loved our Lord when they were in the world, and that have left all for his holy Name; and he hath sent us to fetch them, and we have brought them thus far on their desired journey, that they may go in and look their Redeemer in the face with joy." Then the heavenly host gave a great shout, saying, "Blessed are they that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb". There came out also at this time, to meet them, several of the King's trumpeters, clothed in white and shining raiment; who, with melodious noises, and loud, made even the heavens to echo with their sound. These trumpeters saluted CHRISTIAN and his fellow with ten thousand welcomes, from the world: and this they did with shouting and sound of trumpet. This done, they compassed them round on every side: some went before, some behind, and some on the right hand, some on the left (as 'twere to guide them through the upper regions); continually sounding as they went, with melodious noise, in notes on high; so that the very sight was, to them that could behold it, as if heaven itself was come down to meet them. Thus, therefore, they walked on together; and as they walked, ever and anon these trumpeters, even, with joyful sound, would, by mixing their music with looks and gestures, still signify to CHRISTIAN and his brother how welcome they were into their company, and with what gladness they came to meet them. And now were these two men, as 't were, in heaven, before they came at it; being swallowed up with the sight of angels, and with hearing of their melodious notes. Here also they had the City itself in view; and they thought they heard all the bells therein to ring, to welcome them thereto; but, above all, the warm and joyful thoughts that they had about their own dwelling there, with such company, and that for ever and ever. Oh, by what tongue or pen can their glorious joy be expressed! And thus they came up to the gate. Now when they were come up to the gate, there was written over it, in letters of gold, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the City". Then I saw in my dream, that the shining men bid them call at the gate, the which when they did, some from above looked over the gate: to wit, Enoch, Moses, and Elijah; to whom it was said, "These pilgrims are come from the city of Destruction, for the love that they bear to the King of this place." And then the pilgrims gave in unto them each man his certificate, which they had received in the beginning; those, therefore were carried in to the King, who, when he had read them, said "Where are the men?" To whom it was answered, "They are standing without the gate." The King then commanded to open the gate, "That the righteous nation," said he, "that keeps truth, may enter in". Now I saw in my dream, that these two men went in at the gate; and lo, as they entered, they were transfigured; and they had raiment put on that shone like gold. There were also those that met them with harps and crowns, and gave them to them; the harps to praise withal, and the crowns in token of honour. Then I heard in my dream, that all the bells in the City rang again for joy; and that it was said unto them, "Enter ye into the joy of your Lord." I also heard the men themselves, that they sang with a loud voice, saying, "Blessing, honour, glory, and power, be to him that sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever". Now, just as the gates were opened to let in the men, I looked in after them: and behold, the City shone like the sun: the streets also were paved with gold; and in them walked many men, with crowns on their heads, palms in their hands, and golden harps to sing praises withal. There were also of them that had wings; and they answered one another without intermission, saying, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord!" And after that they shut up the gates, which when I had seen, I wished myself among them. " Maybe for some... what Christian realized is what also gives them peace in that last moment. "Oh, I see him again! and he tells me, 'When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee'". Isaiah 43:2 |
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My question is this. Do you think that the differing facial expressions are indicative as to the reality of what one faces on the other side of here?
No. I was looking into my father's face when he died. He seemed to simply go to sleep. Very peaceful. He certainly didn't expect there to be any "other side" and I'll bet if there had been, he would have looked very surprised!! |
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Junbuggg wrote:
Japle, Thanks for the reply, but I don't think, unless you are psychic or something, that you can know for absolute certainty about what your father did or did not expect upon death. Sure I can know. He told me. We had many discussions on the topic. No psychic abilities required. My father was brought up Catholic. One of his sisters became a Nun and one brother was a Priest. Pop was a B-24 pilot in WWII and didn't expect to survive the war, but he did, married and raised two kids. He gradually came to reject Catholicism, then all religion. By the time he died, he had no illusions about life after death. |
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I got to be with my stepdad at that time and seen him take his last breath and I saw the look on his face as he saw the Lord Jesus....his eyes opened up and a peaceful smile was there......
have you ever read any of the Dying Testimonies of Saved and Unsaved link |
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No experience with facial expressions, but can share this.
My father-in-law and sister-in-law were both living in the house where my mother-in-law (a very strong believer) died after battling cancer. She was in a "home hospice" arrangment. She was in considerable agony in the weeks leading to her death, and didn't say much. On the morning of her death the following happened: she sat up and yelled to my father-in-law, and I quote: "Bud! get me my este lauder, get me my makeup bag. I'm going out tonight!". The weirdest thing was that my father-in-law said the sound of her voice was the same as when she was very young! They were married over 50 years. She put her makeup on and went back to sleep. Later that day, in the afternoon, my sister-in-law and father-in-law both heard music. They described it as a whisper-like sound "coming from the other room" but whatever room they went into it sounded like it was STILL in another room, as if the music was moving away from them. They had both came out of their respective bedrooms at the same time and asked each other if they were playing music! When they went into the room where my mother-in-law was, they saw she had already died. Both my sister-in-law and father-in-law were considerably changed after that, turning more strongly to the Lord. it has been about 12 years now. |
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Worked a contracting job at Fort Hood with a lovely young woman. Her younger brother, who at the time recently converted to Christianity, was on his death bed in the hospital. He was surrounded by family. Right before he passed, he smiled and said "Thank God" while looking in an upwardly fashion. then he moved on. She became a believer in Christ from that day forward.
From a spiritual standpoint....I have always believed that if one has a clear conscience...life and death may be easier. edit;sp |
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Another interesting thing near this matter, I have read and heard of people getting visitations by people that are not physically present. I have taken it with a grain of salt but I have been reluctantly told of a close aunt nearing her actual death that it has happened to her. She was at peace with these visits by ummm.....spirit people (?). My mother has advanced Alzhiemers disease and doesn't recognize anyone. She can barely speak a complete sentence and is physically close to her leaving us here but recently she has had an alert, apparently lucid conversation with someone who wasn't there. At least physically. Makes me wonder.
Don |
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I think how each of us interprets the expressions on our loved ones faces at the moment of death tells us a lot more about ourselves than the spiritual fate of the deceased. I have a cousin who is a Reikki healer. When my Uncle passed my father (a Christian) felt nothing out of the ordinary. My cousin felt the "explosion of his soul and heard its victory cry as it left the mortal coil". We see what we most want or most fear to see. |
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No, because as you know I believe that death actually is death until the resurrection. I believe that it's either natural relaxation of the muscles, or some sense of release or relief that it's over and the pain is gone. Apparently, my dial-up stutters.  Need to get rid of that dial-up GoGop ~
Your response makes sence in my stepdad's case, but it doesn't explain the horrific look on my brothers face........remember that I said while he was still alive, but highly medicated, his face appeared very plain. So it was apparent that he was not in any kind of pain. But my niece said that as he was releasing that last breath his mouth gaped open and his face changed from plain, to frightening. My niece was in her early 30's when this happened, so it's not like she was a kid simply imagining things. And she was not alone in the room, there was also a nurse present monitoring him. I don't like, or want to think that my brother is in, well, hell, right now. But, from my understanding of what I have read in the Bible, I can't help but think it is a tragically real possibility. 
I would love to think you are correct. And that is why I finally decided to start this thread, to maybe find some answers that made more sence than the one I have come to, in my brothers case anyway. 
Many people know when they're dieing, and many people fear it. Your step-dad wasn't in fear, but your brother was. Both only experienced these feelings/emotions for a moment, and won't be aware of anything until they are resurrected. |
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Both men were "Highly Medicated" when they passed on. They were dreaming Morphene dreams.
IMO, it's the wishfull thinking of the relitives to speculate"where they went". They went to the exact same "place"where all the billions of people who have died "went"- they ceased. While interesting,this story sounds like an emotional appeal to convert folks to christianity so that they die with a smile on there face too. As an ex-christian, I know an emotional appeal when I read one. If this story is actually true, I hope you come to terms with your loss,and hope your pain passes. |
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My question is this. Do you think that the differing facial expressions are indicative as to the reality of what one faces on the other side of here? (my answer is yes) My answer is that oxygen starvation causes different facial experssions in different people, and that observers often see what they want to see. Another answer is that religiosity is quite often a major component of mental illness, but that is an answer for a whole different question. And this, if any, what "faces" of death have you witnessed?
Lots. In hospitals and out, and people who die in terror and pain reflect that in their facial expressions, and people who just slip away reflect that. "Oh shit, I'm dead!" is the expression I have seen most often. I wonder if Jesus said "Time's up sucker!", and that was why they looked so surpised. Maybe just as they were going Shiva whispered to the Christians, "Hi, I am Ted from Tennessee, and you picked the wrong religion.", and that's why the Christians were laughing on their way out. |
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My answer is that oxygen starvation causes different facial experssions in different people, and that observers often see what they want to see. Another answer is that religiosity is quite often a major component of mental illness, but that is an answer for a whole different question. "Religiosity"??? Soooooooooooo, was that your way of saying I'm mentally ill??? 
No sister, I don't think that cepipedobates(that's about the most dog-gone-ist screen name that iv'e heard to date, think i'll consult my dictionary too!  ) is trying to say your a nut job!
I think what cepipedobates is trying to say though is this thing about facial expressions at the point of death and the meaning they hold as far as what dead folk, may or may not see at that point in the spititual realm, even though making for a interesting discussion, is not an exact science by any means. Most of the people that I have seen die in my presence have generally had the look like they had gone to sleep. However there are some that I have seen with a painful expression on their faces that had died in a painful manner. I saw three guys on a 105 howitzer crew one time after getting nailed by a defective round that went off directly after being fired out of the tube. They had no expression at all. |
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My answer is that oxygen starvation causes different facial experssions in different people, and that observers often see what they want to see. Another answer is that religiosity is quite often a major component of mental illness, but that is an answer for a whole different question. "Religiosity"??? Soooooooooooo, was that your way of saying I'm mentally ill???
Read it again. Slowly. |
| My family had multiple nursing homes when I was a child. I saw plenty of people die that were both christian and atheists. The face did not relate to the faith. My most recent experience was with my wife's grandmother. She was a catholic who repented before her death in her hospital room. The look on her face was not pleasant. Perhaps because she a heavy smoker who suffered from infasemia and was dying from pnuemonia. |
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Quoted:
A couple years ago I watched my grandmother pass away. She was a true believer. She was laying in the bed with the back raised to about 30 deg. She was listening to us talk and moving her head but could not speak. She then looked staight up at the ceiling, arching her neck. She took her final breath with a smile on her face and a single tear rolled down her cheek as she closed her eyes. I had never seen anthing like it in my 40 yrs. While sad that she was gone, I felt a great sense of peace and believe without a doubt she was happy to go. Had a very similar experience in the passing of both my dad's parents. With my grandfather, he quietly passed as he was laying on the couch in their den as my grandmother and aunt were talking with him. My aunt thought he had just dozed off, but my grandmother immediately knew he was gone. He had a smile on his face that almost made it look like he was "beaming." About 10 years later my grandmother passed. Several days prior to her homegoing, she kept asking my dad and his cousin to tell those "other people in the room" that she was not ready to go home yet. There were no other people in the room. Some say it was hallucinations, and it might have very well been. On the other hand, she was one of most spiritually minded people I have ever known and when she finally passed she too had a smile on her face and almost seemed to know what was happening even though she had been delirious up to that point. |