Posted: 11/12/2008 6:09:30 AM EDT
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Lately, I have been thinking about the moral battle that seems to be going on in this country. While, I am not religious and have always rejected religion on intellectual grounds (for many reasons), news reports and threads like the one below are really beginning to make me want to "take a side", if you will.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=787267 I understand that our country would not be what it is today without Christianity and it's guiding principles but is a desire to join the fight invalid if it is made for political and moral reasons? I suppose that I would be deciding to "invest" in faith consciously without the benefit of an epiphany of any kind. What say you? Is it valid to start a relationship with God under these circumstances? I am genuinely interested in hearing your opinions, folks. |
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Lately, I have been thinking about the moral battle that seems to be going on in this country. While, I am not religious and have always rejected religion on intellectual grounds (for many reasons), news reports and threads like the one below are really beginning to make me want to "take a side", if you will. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=787267 I understand that our country would not be what it is today without Christianity and it's guiding principles but is a desire to join the fight invalid if it is made for political and moral reasons? I suppose that I would be deciding to "invest" in faith consciously without the benefit of an epiphany of any kind. What say you? Is it valid to start a relationship with God under these circumstances? I am genuinely interested in hearing your opinions, folks. Man did you pick a subject that makes some peoples blood boil? My theory has allways been the same for the last 30 + years. With everything in our history/methology brings me to believe that releigon was based on actual experiences of humans. Cave drawings of aircraft pilioted by man Drawing of different aircrafts, shapes & size Jesus, a man that healed the sick The size of our solar system, stars so far that if you travel at the speed of light which is 186,ooo miles per sec it would take you 1 million years to get there at the speed of light. & thats one of the closest... That's BIG. So it's natural to assume we are not alone there are other worlds, other forms..NOT MONSTERS..other forms of humans in some degree or another. A person or a God could not create that. It's also believeable to assume that thousands of years ago there were space travelers & at one time or another one or more have visited this tiny planet. This is where I believe the term & events that created what we call God or God like. One of these travelers while here healed the sick & for someone obviously thousands of years advanced beyond our human race. With a human race who could not even mend a broken arm, if one of the travelers would have repaired the broken arm? How would he have been perceived? As a GOD! I think it is as simple as beliveing that someone in time helped someone ina way that would have been simple first-aid by their standards but God like to primitive man. Religion has a basic of truth, the person they called a God was a man from somewhere. he had family, brothers, mom ...etc.. He was not a one single man who created all we see & hear. He was a man just more advanced that men on this planet. I'm sure this could go ..on & on..but thats my take on it. If this offends any, it is not meant to. If it offends any just look at me in pitty & pray for my soul because in the bible that would be the proper thing to do for those who do not see the light & accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal saviour. Oh &m more important if not for religion the world would be a much more dangerous place to be. Religion makes wonderful people. PS: the ten commandments..one of these travelers looked at us & seen what was in his history books..been there, done that.. he knew he could not stay here & raise us so he gave us the Ten Commandments to help make good people. To give man something to believe in. So in reality someone who would have taken the time to try & give us hope That man would have been as close as we will get to a GOD. |
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Maybe I'll have more time to comment later, but I think maybe God is calling you to him. If you are feeling a tug, that could be it. Whatever the reason that has made you think about it, keep thinking about it, and explore it.
You could even go so far as to pick up a Bible and start reading in John. |
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Quoted: Maybe I'll have more time to comment later, but I think maybe God is calling you to him. If you are feeling a tug, that could be it. Whatever the reason that has made you think about it, keep thinking about it, and explore it. You could even go so far as to pick up a Bible and start reading in John. I absolutely agree. Faith is a gift from God, go ahead and ask Him for it. You can start with a simple prayer like "God if you are there please give me the faith to believe you are there." |
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Sounds like someone is knockin on your door, partner. Had a similar experience about a year and a half ago. I let the Lord in, and I haven't looked back.
Don't expect roses and rainbows from it...there are many times I feel like I'm faced with my own wretchedness whenever I think about how Holy and Pure God is. However, it's His grace and His love for us that wins. You can shoot a gun and kill a man. You can plant and harvest food. You can fish, and wrestle a wild animal if you needed to. You can get a Phd in engineering and design the most advanced, environmentally friendly city in the world. You can fight, love, hate, win, cry. All of it. You can do it all. Yet without God, you are weak. This applies to myself and everyone here, so don't feel like I'm targeting you. The only way to know just how warm and cozy the water is is to jump in. I suspect that's a large reason why so many non-christians look at us like we're nuts. To those folks - choose a side. Come on in, the love is great! You just won't/can't know until you take the plunge. But, with so many of us the world over, it's also nice knowing that you can see the cross and know you have a friend in Christ. Mull it over. He's knockin, but it's your -choice- to open the door or not. |
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Thanks for the replies, SignManIam included. That's an interesting take, in a "The Gods must be crazy" sort of way.
Well, I don't feel pulled so much as compelled to, as I said, choose a side. The reasons are manifold but I'll attempt to elaborate a bit. When I was a young man, I saw a quote on one of those churchyard bulletin boards that said "If God did not exist it would be necessary to invent him". Reading that had a profound impact on me. I later found out the quote is attributed to the satirist Voltaire. Since then, I haven't spent much time thinking about religion. I generally avoided or denied the existence of any God. That one quote seemed to perfectly encapsulate my argument against mere faith serving as proof of his existence. And, I suppose it still does. ETA: Not to say that I lack the desire to pursue this further. It'd be nice to face to face with someone local (of like mind politically) and I will try to make that happen soon. |
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yep.
try this on for size...Lou Giglio + The Stars... I bet you just can't watch this first segment..there are a few more. Let me put it to you this way...Universal Laws of Entropy and Thermo-Dynamics say systems tend to degrade with time...yet the Evolutionists say things "improve" with time. I don't think so. As a doctor (who was an aetheist) working on the humane genome project said: "The probability of chance or evolution producing single-celled animals, would be the same as saying: 'A Hurricane passes over a city junk yard, and through al the wind, tossing, and turning,...a brand new Corvette is assembled and dropped out of the sky." THAT ain't gonna happen. Probability is against it. Same as when folks say: "There ain't no God." Look around, my friend. See birds, snakes, trees, plants––"wonderfully and fearfully" made. Try as we can, we still don't know exactly how a blade of grass grows, much less how people are born and created. The mathematical complexity of life suggests a God. 
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That just made me think of this:
Mull it over. He's knockin, but it's your -choice- to open the door or not. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518XZXZT1KL._SS500_.jpg Notice that there is no doorknob on the outside.... That's a beautiful picture, and it's absolutely correct. We have the power of choice. It's an amazing thing, I think... |
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Keep in mind that your feeling "compelled to choose a side" certainly could be God's way of calling you. He works on each of us in different ways, at different times, when He knows we're ready.
Well, I don't feel pulled so much as compelled to, as I said, choose a side. You may be interested in this website: Evidence for God from Science |
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It's interesting to hear about sides.
Can I make a recommendation? Please read Dante's Inferno, particularly early on where Virgil shows Dante the hell of having made no choice. Of constantly chasing after one's own wants and dreams instead of choosing to stand for something... Not saying everyone has to stop right now and decide on something, but when you feel you're being called and the compulsion goes very deep, read about that level of hell... Dante mentions he sees angels in that hell... Being chased by stinging hornets and bees, chasing a flag (along with human souls who are damned) that symbolizes nothing but their own intent.. They were cast into that hell because even in the war in Heaven, they chose no side... Never stood for the Love of the Almighty, nor rebelled and joined the ranks of the most foul under Lucifer...and look where they -still- ended up. Not by any means saying you are damned by not choosing. Not my place to dish out judgment like that. THAT'S reserved for the Almighty. But try and mull it around a bit. Think it over. When I approached my decision to turn to Christ from that angle, it hit me like a ton of bricks...how for so long, I just never gave a damn about anything, because it didn't further the things that I wanted. I live for God now, and I've never, ever been happier. Again, I can't stress enough the sheer power of choice. You can choose to accept God and let him inside to work in you. You can also to choose to reject him afterwards. Even after that, you can choose to be reconciled with him. We have a gift that dark forces don't have... We can tell God to shit in his hat and pull it tight over his ears, and he'd simply sit us down, wait for us to calm, and then tell us how much he still loves us. Our God if AWESOME. Praise be to him forever. I hope I could call you a brother in Christ someday. However, I will hold no judgment nor ill will over you for choosing otherwise. Also, as an aside, I was strongly considering becoming a Carmelite Priest a while back...I've not attended seminary, but I've delved pretty deeply into Theology and religious studies. If you ever have a question, feel free to reach out to me... God Bless! |
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Let me put it to you this way...Universal Laws of Entropy and Thermo-Dynamics say systems tend to degrade with time...yet the Evolutionists say things "improve" with time. I don't think so. I hate hijacking, but here goes: No, the human secularists who wish to use evolution as "proof" of the absence of a Supreme Being have said that. Those who believe in evolution do not place value on the direction of evolution. There is no "improving" or "degrading." There is only a change; one which can take any of 3 possible outcomes for the individual. Evolution is change only. Not direction. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying for his/her own purpose or doesn't truly understand the mechanism and process of natural selection (evolution is a misnomer when used to describe the mechanism/process; at best it can be used to describe a phenomenon (i.e. change), but it is woefully incorrect to be used to describe the mechanism or process). Furthermore, the entropy example requires a closed system. The earth is not one. It's a red herring argument used to disprove a false claim. And completely invalid in its attempts to disprove the theory of evolution via natural selection. (Not to mention that evolution itself is a biological phenomenon, not a physical one. Using physics to explain the theory is like saying gravity exists because human hereditary material is passed from one person to another through the gametocytes. Completely irrelevant.) Mind you, I'm not arguing FOR the theory either. As a student of the theory, both in and out of college, I'll be the first to admit it has some holes. But most of them aren't the commonly used ones to "disprove" it. That being said, hijack is over, and I believe the OP needs to dig deeply and open his heart to the possibility that he is being called. |
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Maybe I'll have more time to comment later, but I think maybe God is calling you to him. If you are feeling a tug, that could be it. Whatever the reason that has made you think about it, keep thinking about it, and explore it. You could even go so far as to pick up a Bible and start reading in John. I absolutely agree. Faith is a gift from God, go ahead and ask Him for it. You can start with a simple prayer like "God if you are there please give me the faith to believe you are there." I agree too. I remember when I came to Christ...you can't really explain it. It's the most powerful...moment in ones life. If you feel he is calling you go ahead and ask him to guide you and to come into your life like he did mine.(I know it sounds crazy but trust me) I suggest you try finding a local bible church and start asking questions about everything.(questions are very good) One of the most important questions people should ask themselves is why? If you do that you (if your like me) will eventually come to Christ. Also I'm speaking to you not from the point of view that "oh I want to covert you *shoves bible down guys throat*" but I want you to know I really do care. If Hell is real....and it's as bad as the bible depicts it then how could anyone just want to "convert someone"? So please start asking why. Why is a good question and I wouldn't be a Christian if I didn't ask why. Hope this helps...it's just my 2 cents. |
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You are correct that our country would not be what it is today were it not for the fact that the vast majority of its people over most of its history have chosen to govern their affairs according to Judeo-Christian principles.
I do not believe that a desire to align yourself with those who you know to be morally and politically correct is any less valid because the path that you took to get there was through observation and logic as opposed to emotions, feelings or an "epiphany". Some of us just aren't built that way. Part of what started my journey was the realization that yes, there is an objective truth that is independent of what I or anybody else thinks of it. The fact is, I began to develop a desire to see justice and truth triumph in my small corner of the world. That means that there must actually be such a thing as "truth" and "justice", for how can I crave something that does not exist? I get thirsty; there is a thing called water to slake my thirst. I get tired; there is a thing called sleep to refresh me. I need intimacy; there exists what we call "woman" to be my companion. All over the Earth, all through history, people have desired political and moral "right"; how then, could it not exist? It is kind of like how a wind sock at a range or airport, while it does not allow you to actually see the wind itself, shows that the wind does in fact exist, and has an influence on our world. Although many might never get a "epiphany" or "miracle", if we just observe our world with a critical eye, and keep in mind that we are not (any of us) near as clever as we'd like to think, there are signs showing Gods presence in all things. In a way, I consider myself blessed that I came to my faith through reason as opposed to being born or pressured into it. I know why I believe what I do. BTW, although I am personally a Christian, what I am not trying to push my particular beliefs upon you. I am just speaking generally of God. If I had the time and right philosophers at my disposal, I believe I could explain why I believe that one could come to God through reason. If you are interested in pursuing that line of inquiry further, I'm sure myself or another here could recommend some books that would be able to explain it better than any of us could. As far as why I believe that Jesus is the Saviour of mankind, I have a much harder time expressing myself short of saying it is partly because of what I can only describe as an "epiphany". Sorry.  I can, however, tell you that C.S. Lewis explains it in such a way that it almost makes me jealous of his communication skills in a book called "Mere Christianity".
He lays out why he's a Christian without ever getting pushy, and by the end of the book I realized (as it seems you have) that, as men, we have a choice to make. |
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The thing that I find so amazing, in the Book of Genisus God describes the creation and everything that was made was spoken into existance except 2. Man was created by the hands of God and He breathed into man the breath of life. If that's not a extremely personal relationship, then I don't know what one is.
God the Father longs to have a personal relationship with his creation. That is amazing considering the way we treat Him xCorpsman you typicaly don't have these internal coversations unless He is calling you (He knows the language each of us speak) What say you? Is it valid to start a relationship with God under these circumstances? I am genuinely interested in hearing your opinions, folks. Yes! CJep being conformed in the image & likeness |
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i would like to vocalize:
i agree, without a faith based culture the u.s.a. would not have made it this far the bible to me is no more than a 'homer' styled play, written, lost, re-discovered ( ALL FICTION) by primitive minds that misunderstood it as a reality and still used today as a brainwashing tool, for good, but it has and can be used for evil to every mega race/population of people on this planet have a faith/god based upon their own evolutionary values because before their was a faith......their was a myth, and before a myth there was no need for it. 'i dont see a need for it today' not with science tech. i have more faith in a micro-biologist than a book that says......i the entity created all seems everyone is fighting in the name of......their faith and feels the need to implicate their people into their equation as it's like 'if your not with us your against us' termonology but at the end of the day.....its not a god that protects, that goes into the back pocket and the missle is launched....... is that god.....or god like? or just primitive survival? but i hold a persons personal decision to look and decide for themselves a human right not a god based right |
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Sounds like your starting to think about the big questions of life. Why am I here ?
Where did all this come from? Is this all there is? You can't get those answers from the world. It's all smoke and mirrors. Only God can fill that hole in your life. It's only by God's grace he reached down and pulled me out of the black pit of despair. Jhn 8:32 - And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. |
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Those circumstances are fine to start a relationship with GOD. You do not have to have a epiphany or Near Death Incident...I sure wouldnt wait for those things to happen!
I agree with the past posters in that it sounds like the God of the universe may be gently tugging and knocking at your door. I would recommend reading the book of John as well. God Speed to you in your journey |