Posted: 12/26/2016 10:08:06 AM EDT
| Why wont god intervene to prevent pain? |
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Why wont god intervene to prevent pain? The reason pain exists (IMO) is to remind us that our bodies will die; that we do have a greater consequence coming down the road. BTW, there are people who don't feel physical pain, and they usually have short, tumultuous lives unless they learn to curb their impulses through self-discipline. |
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Millions have asked this for thousands of years. We had it good. Eve and Adam messed that up. Now we are subject to pain, loss, anxiety, and every kind of blight satan wants to throw down on. But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. |
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Are you a parent? Do you never spank your children out of correction? Do you let them get painful shots to prevent a greater consequence down the road? The reason pain exists (IMO) is to remind us that our bodies will die; that we do have a greater consequence coming down the road. BTW, there are people who don't feel physical pain, and they usually have short, tumultuous lives unless they learn to curb their impulses through self-discipline. But that is a short-term pain. Cancer, for example, can be a long term pain. God should help to alleviate these pains and suffering. |
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But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. On a philosophical level: even before we were born, we are all potentially in Adam, just as all our future descendants are potentially in us. The sin of Adam separated himself and all those potentially in Him, from God. Sin is defined as separation from God. Now if you want a more material explanation, the research into epigenetics, which is a field of research that shows that behavior can effect genetic expression, which is very, very interesting as far as it's implications - you can watch a good lecture on it here. |
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I used believe god was caring. Nov 9 2015 something happened that changed my mind.
I know there is a god, I just don't think it cares. Not about me anyway. Someone asked about being a parent, yes, I am. If I could save my children the pain I am in, I would. Don't tell me god can't do that, or can't show something any other way. Either god is not omnipotent, or god doesn't care. |
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But that is a short-term pain. Cancer, for example, can be a long term pain. God should help to alleviate these pains and suffering. We can reasonably argue that opiates and pain medications exist because God created the ingredients with the potential to be made into pain-relieving medicines; knowing that they would do to His nature that transcends time (i.e. omniscience). One other thing we have to consider when we evaluate a design is the purpose of that design. A sheet of thick steel is good for building structures, but not for use as a mattress. So what's the purpose for a world with pain? Maybe it's to check our pride, and seek after Him so that we can find peace from this world and hope for the next, which God has said will be without pain. We tend to not seek Him out when we are in the high times of our lives, but instead at the low times. I'm not making light of the pain of those who are in deep suffering, but God does give peace to all of us in an eternity with Him, so that even the pain we experience in this life will be short by comparison. I know that's little consolation, but consider this: God is eternal, without time, which if you think about it, means that He may experience all events at once. That means that when God entered into His creation in the person of Jesus Christ, and died an excruciating death by crucifixion, He never forgets that pain, that suffering (both physically and spiritually), since to Him in His timelessness, it's always a present event. Now Christ suffered to redeem us from sin, so in other words: God suffers all the pain in the world, so that He may bring us to a state where we will suffer no more. BTW some think Psalm 88 is a description of the shame and pain that Christ felt on the cross - and it never has a resolution, just begins with suffering and ends in suffering, unlike the other Psalms, and also it has undertones of what NT writers wrote about the significance of Christ's death as an atonement for our sins; that God placed all the sins and shame and separation of all men for all time on Himself, in the person of Jesus Christ, which He always experiences. Now think about how great a God is that is willing to do that. Edit: I would also put forth that since God knows our heart, knows our thoughts, and must know our pain as a result, then He is suffering along with those who suffer, and knows what we are going through. This is not something that He can put others through without experiencing it also, due to His very nature. |
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I used believe god was caring. Nov 9 2015 something happened that changed my mind. I know there is a god, I just don't think it cares. Not about me anyway. Someone asked about being a parent, yes, I am. If I could save my children the pain I am in, I would. Don't tell me god can't do that, or can't show something any other way. Either god is not omnipotent, or god doesn't care. Please read the above post. |
| I think the thoughts on pain is relevant. When we stray from God or outright rebel it causes pain. Pain for the one who breaks the commandments and pain for those that they inflict their unrighteousness on. God cannot convict those who have not sinned if he doesn't allow them to sin. God granted men agency. To follow him or Satan. Those who choose Satan cause the most pain. |
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I am so sorry you are going through this.
God does answer. He knows best, what to do, and when to do it. I know its hard. One time after surgery I got on my knees and cried out to Him in total desperation and He answered that very second . Other times I had to endure. That doesn't mean He doesn't love us or care. He hears our prayers and sees in our hearts. Nothing is hidden from Him. Hold fast brother. He is coming. |
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But that is a short-term pain. Cancer, for example, can be a long term pain. God should help to alleviate these pains and suffering. Even if someone is born with a chronic illness they have from birth, and live to be 100, that is still short term pain in relation to the age of the universe. |
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But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. Because it's allegory. The fact of the matter is that human beings suffer primarily from pride and selfishness which leads to all the other sins. Our biggest fault is thinking we know better than God what's good for us, and that's what leads to our suffering. |
 Joni Eareckson Tada Shares Her Story |
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“We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
? C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain “The problem of reconciling human suffering with the existence of a God who loves, is only insoluble so long as we attach a trivial meaning to the word "love", and look on things as if man were the centre of them. Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." We were made not primarily that we may love God (though we were made for that too) but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest "well pleased".” ? C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain |
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In GD there is a thread about an NYPD Detective named Steven McDonald whom just passed away.
Article about his death When you read an article like that you realize the pain that not only he himself, but also his son and wife, must have endured surely was tremendous. Despite that, however, his family stayed together his whole life. His wife never left him, he raised a successful son whom followed in his footsteps, and he never quit working to better this world by promoting forgiveness and peace despite his personal misfortune. God had a plan for Detective McDonald and his family. God knew that they could handle this sort of pain and still live according to God's will. The same way that God knew that only his son, Jesus, could bear the pain of all the sins of the world; God knew Steven Mcdonald could bear this burden. I think God only gives us what we can handle, even if daunting at times. He will never ask us to take more pain than he took himself when he sacrificed his only Son on the cross for our sins. That's why pain exists, to remind us that God has faith in us, just as we have faith in him. ETA: they are burying Det McDonald today, how fitting that the gospel reading of the day is Mark Chapter 2, the parable of the paralytic man healed by Jesus. Mark Chapter 2 |
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“We can ignore even pleasure. But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” ? C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain “The problem of reconciling human suffering with the existence of a God who loves, is only insoluble so long as we attach a trivial meaning to the word "love", and look on things as if man were the centre of them. Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." We were made not primarily that we may love God (though we were made for that too) but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest "well pleased".” ? C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain Good answer for me. Any response from the person asking? |
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Dealing with some myself these days. Here is what I have found OP.
Pain/Suffering and Trust are two of the foundations of those who follow Christ. Suffering exists to bring glory to God with our response. Trust REQUIRES both the unknown and the unfulfilled. The TL;DR AND the meaning of life is that we are here to learn to trust God......anyway.....no matter what.... for His glory-not ours. |
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Quoted:
But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. Romans 5-12 12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Many people feel its not fair for God to judge us because of Adam's sin, while everyday we confirm our solidarity with Adam thru the sins we commit everyday. We are made from the same stuff as Adam, prone to rebellion, and we also will be judged for OUR sins as was he, its not fairness that we need, but mercy! |
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Romans 5-12 12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Many people feel its not fair for God to judge us because of Adam's sin, while everyday we confirm our solidarity with Adam thru the sins we commit everyday. We are made from the same stuff as Adam, prone to rebellion, and we also will be judged for OUR sins as was he, its not fairness that we need, but mercy! Quoted:
Quoted:
But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. Romans 5-12 12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Many people feel its not fair for God to judge us because of Adam's sin, while everyday we confirm our solidarity with Adam thru the sins we commit everyday. We are made from the same stuff as Adam, prone to rebellion, and we also will be judged for OUR sins as was he, its not fairness that we need, but mercy! Even the born again are still struggling against their flesh and will sin. Thank God for His mercy. |
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Because it's allegory. The fact of the matter is that human beings suffer primarily from pride and selfishness which leads to all the other sins. Our biggest fault is thinking we know better than God what's good for us, and that's what leads to our suffering. Quoted:
Quoted:
But why do we have to suffer for their sin? Eve and Adam paid for it, and that should be the end of their sin. Why drag us into it? Kinda like there is a mass shooting. They got the cuprits, but go one step further and want to ban all the guns because of it. Because it's allegory. The fact of the matter is that human beings suffer primarily from pride and selfishness which leads to all the other sins. Our biggest fault is thinking we know better than God what's good for us, and that's what leads to our suffering. yep. I won't try to convince you to believe the words of the Bible did or didn't happen. That is up to you to decide. Free will is a gift from God, so that you may realize faith in him in your own way and time. In any case, should you choose not to believe the creation story, just think of it like a story told to convey a simple truth about human nature. We are inherently drawn to sin because sin has so much appeal in this temporary life. In a very true sense God saw the mistake Adam and Eve made, and sent his OWN SON to die for us to save us from our own sin in return. That is how much God loves us, that he was willing to sacrifice his only son for our mistakes. |
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Quoted:
I think the thoughts on pain is relevant. When we stray from God or outright rebel it causes pain. Pain for the one who breaks the commandments and pain for those that they inflict their unrighteousness on. God cannot convict those who have not sinned if he doesn't allow them to sin. God granted men agency. To follow him or Satan. Those who choose Satan cause the most pain. |
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First,
I'm sorry for your pain. Second, There are some good answers in here. I feel moved to try and take a stab at it. The bigger question, really, is, why does a loving God allow pain, at all? Especially to innocents like kittens or babies, or anything we think innocent and feeling. The simple answer is free will. Free will means we all get to make choices, but it also means we have to accept the consequences. Some of those consequences are people completely out of our sphere of control impacting our lives, or the lives of those we care about, negatively. It also means that evil exists, and part of the existence of evil is bad things happening. To kittens, or babies, for seemingly no reason, but there is a reason. God gave us choices. All of us. I know that's a suck answer, but it's the truth. Just like when your kid falls down, or gets their heart crushed, and you are completely shattered for them but you can't live their life for them or protect them from everything; I think God feels that way about you, OP, right now. He could intervene, and He does, on a plan only He seems to know. We're not assured a great life as Christians. Or, even a fair one, really. I wish I had better discernment about it, but it's one of those things that define our world, and our relationship to Him. I'll pray for God to work in your life. |
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First, I'm sorry for your pain. Second, There are some good answers in here. I feel moved to try and take a stab at it. The bigger question, really, is, why does a loving God allow pain, at all? Especially to innocents like kittens or babies, or anything we think innocent and feeling. The simple answer is free will. Free will means we all get to make choices, but it also means we have to accept the consequences. Some of those consequences are people completely out of our sphere of control impacting our lives, or the lives of those we care about, negatively. It also means that evil exists, and part of the existence of evil is bad things happening. To kittens, or babies, for seemingly no reason, but there is a reason. God gave us choices. All of us. I know that's a suck answer, but it's the truth. Just like when your kid falls down, or gets their heart crushed, and you are completely shattered for them but you can't live their life for them or protect them from everything; I think God feels that way about you, OP, right now. He could intervene, and He does, on a plan only He seems to know. We're not assured a great life as Christians. Or, even a fair one, really. I wish I had better discernment about it, but it's one of those things that define our world, and our relationship to Him. I'll pray for God to work in your life. the bible says god knows everything that will happen. also that we have free will. cant be both, so which is the lie? |
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either god knows what you are going to do, or you have free will. the bible says god knows everything that will happen. also that we have free will. cant be both, so which is the lie? 
You ever watch an addict? Or, a Soldier with a new girl? You *know* the first one is going to steal from you, and the other is heading for disaster. You know it like a roadmap in front of you. But you don't influence their choices. They have free will. You know exactly how it's gonna play out. God is to us like we are to little kids. Kids think they're clever, but can't fathom how I know they got into my cookies. I am at least three steps ahead of any little kid; imagine how many steps ahead of me my God is? |
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either god knows what you are going to do, or you have free will. Quoted:
either god knows what you are going to do, or you have free will. I know that they will cut themselves in time, while trying to learn how to use a knife. I know they will get burned now and then, when trying to learn how to handle a lighter, or wood stove. I know these things will happen. I'm a caring father at the same time. But I need them to grow and get through that awful stuff so that they can walk in maturity and wisdom. So I dare not shelter them from the pain of growth and character building. Quoted:
the bible says god knows everything that will happen. also that we have free will. If you can find the humility to share the specifics of your pain, focused prayers from the believers here will be powerful and effective. |
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either god knows what you are going to do, or you have free will. the bible says god knows everything that will happen. also that we have free will. cant be both, so which is the lie? He is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is everywhere at all times, He is in the past, present, and future. He sees us now, 10 seconds from now, and 10 years from now. That is how He knows what we'll do before we do it, and yet it is still our choice. |
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On a philosophical level: even before we were born, we are all potentially in Adam, just as all our future descendants are potentially in us. The sin of Adam separated himself and all those potentially in Him, from God. Sin is defined as separation from God. Now if you want a more material explanation, the research into epigenetics, which is a field of research that shows that behavior can effect genetic expression, which is very, very interesting as far as it's implications - you can watch a good lecture on it here. |
| as a survivor of domestic abuse, spousal abandonment and a cult pain is something one can not put into words. It is a daily thing to live and remember and the scars no matter how long the recovery has been are still there. I wasn't suppose to be here passed christmas because the pain had been too much. some days are better than others and some are worst and yet I can agree that god is somewhat there but sometimes not. I for some reason choose life despite pain and question why I do. It's been a roller coaster and nothing has been stable in the months since she left no matter the choices i make or the counseling I get. |
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Someone asked about being a parent, yes, I am. If I could save my children the pain I am in, I would. Don't tell me god can't do that, or can't show something any other way. Either god is not omnipotent, or god doesn't care. |