Posted: 6/26/2010 5:36:38 AM EDT
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes...
Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? |
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Israel becoming a nation again (specifically in the WAY it was created: brought forth out of the [United] nations), is the biggest clue. Is it statistically likely that the end times are very far off? Absolutely. How does that play out with the belief of the apostles that it would happen within their lifetimes?? And at what point to people quit waiting? |
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Israel becoming a nation again (specifically in the WAY it was created: brought forth out of the [United] nations), is the biggest clue. Is it statistically likely that the end times are very far off? Absolutely. How does that play out with the belief of the apostles that it would happen within their lifetimes?? What makes you think they thought it HAD to happen in their lifetime? And at what point to people quit waiting?
Probably about 30 seconds before He comes back. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70) The destruction of the temple and the scattering of the Jewish people may have been the beginning of the end times from a Biblical point of view. To the Christians and Jews of that era, the destruction of Jerusalem would have been the end of the world in a sense. It would have been like a full scale nuclear war where every major American city was destroyed completely and the vast majority of Americans died. If that were to happen then it’s possible that “America” would go on in the sense that Americans living abroad might retain their national identity and survive as people without a nation. |
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes... Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? I am an Amillinialist. (Actually I prefer the term, "Realized Millenialist") I do not believe for example that 1948 Israel is in any way related to Jesus second coming. When Jesus spoke of "restoring the Temple", I believe He was talking about His resurrection. I do however believe we are in the end times now. I believe that the Church is ALREADY in its time of tribulation with false doctrine, false teachers, etc. already attacking the Truth. I believe the Antichrist will/has come from within the church itself. I don't believe as some others here do that he will be a political leader. I believe the 1000 years spoken of in Revelation like other numbers is symbolic, not literal. How long will the end times last? I don't know. Obviously they'll last until the second coming on Judgement Day. But, MORE IMPORTANTLY, we all face our own private end time and need to be just as ready for it as the second coming. If we die before that day and if we place our trust in Jesus as our savior, we'll have a front row seat! |
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes... Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? I am an Amillinialist. (Actually I prefer the term, "Realized Millenialist") I do not believe for example that 1948 Israel is in any way related to Jesus second coming. When Jesus spoke of "restoring the Temple", I believe He was talking about His resurrection. I do however believe we are in the end times now. I believe that the Church is ALREADY in its time of tribulation with false doctrine, false teachers, etc. already attacking the Truth. I believe the Antichrist will/has come from within the church itself. I don't believe as some others here do that he will be a political leader. I believe the 1000 years spoken of in Revelation like other numbers is symbolic, not literal. How long will the end times last? I don't know. Obviously they'll last until the second coming on Judgement Day. But, MORE IMPORTANTLY, we all face our own private end time and need to be just as ready for it as the second coming. If we die before that day and if we place our trust in Jesus as our savior, we'll have a front row seat! That is a point of view that I haven't ran into before, what do you base it on (specific writings, etc)? When I write these posts, I am not trying to troll, I am seriously interested in this subject, even though my personal beliefs vary between agnostic, deist, etc over the years. |
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Israel becoming a nation again (specifically in the WAY it was created: brought forth out of the [United] nations), is the biggest clue. Is it statistically likely that the end times are very far off? Absolutely. I think that the world at large is about to be in for the surprise of their lives, and unfortunatly for some or even many, the most spectacular, and most glorious or for the non-believing, terrifing and the most horrific events that the world has ever seen and will experiance depending on which side of the fence, so to speak, that a person will end up on at a time, and assuradly coming soon, according to Bible prophecy and the understanding of such through God's Holy Spirit, and also with information concerning current world events unfolding all around us currently, almost every day now. There are several things which makes me feel this way currently, so I will make an ernest and humble attempt always with God's help to explain the reasons why. One thing that gets my attention concerning this coming reality are the facts concerning some current human behaviors that can and does line up with prophetic events that are explained, some of them quite detailed in the Bible about what people will be doing shortly before the return of Jesus Christ and the installation of His government which will be located in and around the present day city of Jerusalem, in the former as well as current State of Israel today. These are some of the things that will be taking place at a time shortly before the return of Christ to initiate His reign on earth: 1) There will be a falling away from the Christian Church, the likes which are unprecedented since the Christian Church's conception. 2) There will be a worldwide call by many religious leaders of all persuaisions to incorporate a woldwide unified body that worships a God who can be equally represented by all religions on the face of the earth in so that all mankind may seek this universal God with the belief and understanding that there are many ways or paths to God, just not one way, which the Christian Bible says is not only a false teaching concerning this, but abominable and unacceptable behavior through these actions, without repentance through the attoning Blood of Christ and staying to this course of a broad and politically correct universal religious practice will result in that person or persons being decieved concerning such, to be expelled from the Lord's presence through God's White Throne Judgement concerning the unbelieving that rejected Jesus Christ as the only legitamate and given Lord and Savior, to and from then forward to forcably etch out an eternal existance in a place of suffering and torrment far removed from God the Creator's presence and eternal reward and future position. 3) The widespread occurrances of sexual immorality, such as has never been experianced and widley accepted as before especially concerning the younger generation but not nessesarily concerning them completely.Behaviors and actions such as adultry in marrage,multable partner sexual encounters acted on by married couples and singles or combinations concerning both, the aid of devises to inhance sexual pleasure, ponography, pediphelia, homosexuality,violent sexual acts against unwilling and even willing participants, sex trafficing and sex slavery. Other indicators are some of the present clothing fades mainly instituted by liberal clothing designers, manufactures, and a worldwide unscrupulous sales media which has compelled and succeded concerning many people dressing and thus sexually acting out through new agressive attitudes toward forward sexual and progressivly more seductive behaviors. This is accomplished through sexually liberated ways that people , many of them younger than thirty dress now, which in my opinion at least only causes more people to fall into a trap and lifestyle of unhealthy and cursed behavior far away from God's best for their own lives. These who are fully transgressing God's Laws concerning Godly behavior that mankind should attempt to practice through a monogomous marital relationship between one man and one woman. I also believe that this failure by man to obey God concerning what it is that He has to say about sexual immorality at large within the world as politically and socially accepted behavior right now is quite evidenced by vast numbers of infected human beings in the world today through the spreading of sexually transmuted diseases or STD's, some infected with many of these diseases just not one or maybe even two, and are currently now at nearing pandemic levels.There are many of these STD's currently ticking away like time bombs inside of their current host victims and especially concerning many of those people who currently do not tell their unsuspecting sex partners about their current medical conditions concerning diseased reproductive and other organs. Many of them that will become much more appairant to all at a time when these desises adversely affect those currently holding back the truth and information about the state of their own bodies, much to the disappointment and even horror of the one's that they might join in a sexual relationship. This situation may be especially ackward as well as painful if at a proposal of marriage and the anticipation of it that might come out of a prolonged sexual relationship between sexual partners that at a certain point fall in love, that will at that point the realization of these conditions causing cancers and other deadly effects in women as well as men, some who won't be able to have children, or with a strong likleyhood latter on of having offspring who are diseased themselves, that have been born as carriers of STD's, to live out their own lives severly and permenantly complicated by incurable birth defects caused by these worldwide pandemic level infectious sexually transmutted diseases other emotional complications because of it. There are and always have been spiritual laws set in place by God concerning man from the beginning. These fully defined laws that have been placed around us and even in us, have been instituted and have been set up for a purpose, and those purposes because they are many, unfortunately for some will be unrelenting in their scope, painful in many ways to bear up under, and also permenant in nature without divine intervention and thus a supernatural healing concerning them. 4)Increased seismic activity around the world and in more places that usually do not have very much activity of ths sort. Also the severity of earthquakes and other seismic activity will gradually grow more severe in nature causing other natural occurances like tsunamis and increased shifting and movement of the subterrainian continental plates located around the world. 5) The formation of a one world government and the intentional destabilization of national and world trading and investment markets in order to cause this one world government to come to pass as a way to influense and then compell people from all over the globe to embrace this type of livestyle and citizenship in order to maattain or even maintain a certan quality of living promised by the few as a sales pitch to further a one world governmental control upon the masses in order to make a situation that is conducive to it's leader, the anti-christ, it's choosen world leader and subsequently his appointed world religious leader and figure, the false prophet, in order to control the masses using false religion as a control mechenism to arise with him through the turmoil that it is going to take in order for all of the world's people to discard their own national identities and follow them(see #2). 6) The continuous and progressive breaking down of the family unit,(ie. divorce,family violence,sexual misconduct between family members, abortion for reasons of conveniance ect.), without present in many instances now the husband and father taking a Godly leadership role at it's head, recieving his leadership qualities and guidance from the head of the Church, which is Jesus Christ, and the mother functioning primarily and every bit as importantly if not more so at certain stages of her and her children's lives, in a support and multi-faceted learning, educational and upmost feminine role model to the best of her ability as it was handed down to her from her parents or learned through the the Spirit of God concerning herself and concerning the needs of her husband and children , especially when it comes to her maintaining and proliferating the well being and disiplinary matters as needed concerning the children's upbringing, not just in the father's absence but at all times and seasons, to the best of her own special abilities and God given talents. 7) Man's technology rising at unprecedented levels and quantum leaps occurring concerning human knowledge and it's applications through that technology and the rapid replacement of it with progressivly superior technology, which primarily is due to in part concerning the harnessing and the scientific utillization of the atomic elements enabling many governments currently in power now and potentally hostile to hold the world at large in a state of prolonged black-mail. Members of the peace loving world are currently facing real and present dangers, because these other leaders, mostly religious fanatics and foolish minded dictators who are mentally as well as spiritually unstable have over time and playing a game of stonewalling through non-disclosure of what it is that they really possess and at what quantities in the world political arena now have fully functioning weapons grade materials currently on board and ready for war-time deployment with accurate enough delivery systems for financial as well as political gains which I believe at one point will get out of hand and certainly be used to exterminate up to one third of the earth's population as possibly outlined from that source in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. There are many more signs and events currently playing out in my opinion which points to all of us being and living in such a time as the Bible describes as this present age of God;s grace concerning mankind presently oliving on the earth, which at this present age's conclusion, I believe that the God with us or Immanuel age shortly to come, will in fact truly be a new beginning for some, but in other cases, an old ending as well as a unwanted stark reality for others. Thanks SAE |
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This topic is one of the several that recurr in our group. Here's a link to what I believe is the last time we discussed it: America & Israel
Unfortunately I can't go back farther. We had a really good, long drug out discussion on this earlier. Obviously as you probably know, christians don't agree on everything. A sizeable group of them (but a minority) believe in a literal 1000 year earthly reign of Christ here on earth. Those groups are collectively know as "Millenialists". within that group there are different groups that see how it happens. The majority of christians don't believe this; they believe that Jesus' coming and the "rapture" all occur on judgement day. They (we) believe that the Old Testament prophesies were fulfilled by Jesus and His church. |
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I think that the world at large is about to be in for the surprise of their lives, and unfortunatly for some or even many, the most spectacular, and most glorious or for the non-believing, terrifing and the most horrific events that the world has ever seen and will experiance depending on which side of the fence, so to speak, that a person will end up on at a time, and assuradly coming soon No matter which side of the fence you're on, it's going to be horrific. The discriminator is hope. People on Christ's side of the fence have it... those on the other side do not. Hope makes all the difference. I think the only commonality among Christian ideas about the coming troubles is that none of them are right. This isn't going to be a cute Left Behind story... |
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I think that the world at large is about to be in for the surprise of their lives, and unfortunatly for some or even many, the most spectacular, and most glorious or for the non-believing, terrifing and the most horrific events that the world has ever seen and will experiance depending on which side of the fence, so to speak, that a person will end up on at a time, and assuradly coming soon No matter which side of the fence you're on, it's going to be horrific. The discriminator is hope. People on Christ's side of the fence have it... those on the other side do not. Hope makes all the difference. I think the only commonality among Christian ideas about the coming troubles is that none of them are right. This isn't going to be a cute Left Behind story... Some believe in a pre-tribe rapture, and then some other follower's of Jesus Christ do not believe so or subscribe to a rapture view at all. I have been a Christian for many years and probably know my God at this point, with the time that I personally estimate is left before His returning better now, as far as who He is and how it is that He operates, the basic overview of God's depiction in the Bible than probably I ever will dwelling as a man in the current condition that I find myself in now. That is not to say I would feel comfortable about not having a much closer and intimate relationship with Jesus on any level, even one of adversity from it's cleansing effects. However, I have never in my lifetime as the psalmist has stated.'' have never seen the righteous forsaken, or his seed begging bread.'' There are however references in the Book of Revelation concerning,''locusts,'' or some such creature being released from a chamber deep within the bowels of the earth and which the key to it's enterance will be given to the destroying angel, one of the names that he goes by in the Hebrew is ''Abaddon,'' and the other name given in Greek to this fallen angelic being is, ''Apollyon,'' or the one who makes destitute. He will release these creatures so that they will harm people with stingers like scorpions for a short while. It does say that these creatures which will be thrusted to the surface of the earth by a great pillar of smoke, but will not have the capability to harm anyone who at that time will possess the seal of God upon them. There are also other prophetic references in the Bible about some of the saints being martyred during the tribulation prior to the ,''Great and Awesome Day of the Lord.'' Stating some of these events to come, and there are certainly many more things that the Bible has to say concerning these things, leads me in some ways to believe that there may be more than one catching away of the body of Christ than has been detailed by the Apostle Paul concerning this peticular activity and event concerning the dead rising in Christ first, then we who are alive at that time in Christ suddenly rising into the second heaven to meet Jesus Christ in the air being changed from the corruptible, into the incorruptubility which is Christ and everything which He fully and completly represents. Jesus Christ has also told His Bride and His Chrurch that,''I will never leave you or forsake you.'' ''I will not leave you as orphants or like sheep among ravinous wolves.'' It is my belief that a honorable and loving man would never allow wicked men to drag his betrothed and beloved down the street in her wedding attire to be put on public display, and to be openly scorned and then abusivly handled in the worst sorts of ways in order to mock the God of our fathers, to sadistically laugh out loud and then shake a bloody fist in defiance toward Him through henious acts murder and savage butchery, on His own people called by His Own Name. This is the God and Husbandman, who is Jesus Christ, that I truly serve and also in return has taught me and sometimes the hard way, that He indeed wants me to love Him back in like fashion and in the same way to love Him like that. Tell me what in God's Holy Name, what would be the point to any of that. Concerning Judgement? The Bible states that the evil of this world, man and spritual creature alike have already been Judged because God already knows who will inherit eternal life and who will not. And so be that, coming in or going out to be with Him. I know that some of what I say may sound strange to some coming from another man, but that's the way that it is in the kingdom of God concerning His Family and the way that He views matters concerning His relationships with His people. You see, it is this kind of love as a matter of fact that perpetuates the whole universe and has a great deal to do with how it has been set up. For a greater purpose than Itself i've been told, fully or only in part it doesn't matter. For there is always more purpose and an accounting that is only known to God and at times even us, if it is our desire to know being humble and graciously taught by our Father of Lights. Always! Thanks, SAE |
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Before I make a big purchase, I usually go look up the item in the most recent Consumer Report guide. I am seldom disappointed. When trying to make heads or tails out of "THIS" issue, the logical thing to do is look into the popular end time teachers. Don't take what they say as fact unless you read it for yourself in your Bible. This will dramatically cut down your search. Some teachers to look into would be
Irvin Baxter : http://www.endtime.com/ John Ankerberg : http://ankerberg.com/ Zola Levitt: http://www.levitt.com/ here is a bunch of links : http://www.prophecywatch.com/recommendedlinks_dec2208 AGAIN - listen, verify. You are ultimately responsible to what you learn as truth. The signs of the last days are fairly clear from what I see. The Bible tells us that we won't know the hour, but the signs will be clear to us "biblical weathermen". Don |
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The OP is exactly right that, "the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes".
Paul plainly believed that the end began with the resurrection of Jesus. One of the reasons he wrote the letter in 1 Thessalonians is because he had taught the members of the church (which he'd founded) that the end was coming right away. The people were worried that the members who'd died since Paul was there would miss out on the glorious rewards they'd all been promised when Christ returned. 1 Thess. 4:15-17 was meant to reassure them. It's pretty obvious that Paul believed that he'd still be alive at the end when he says, "we who are alive, who remain". Of course, Paul also believed that there were three levels of existance, Heaven above, where they would, "meet the Lord in the air", Earth, and Sheol beolw, where the dead existed. That's just what you would expect from someone living then. Paul had no idea that the Earth was a ball revolving around one star out of uncounted billions. In any case. people have believed they were living in the end times ever since Paul was around. They say the signs are all there. They're right about that. The signs are always there, because those signs are part of life on this planet. There's never been a time when current events couldn't be interpreted as signs that "the end is near". |
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The OP is exactly right that, "the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes". Paul plainly believed that the end began with the resurrection of Jesus. One of the reasons he wrote the letter in 1 Thessalonians is because he had taught the members of the church (which he'd founded) that the end was coming right away. The people were worried that the members who'd died since Paul was there would miss out on the glorious rewards they'd all been promised when Christ returned. 1 Thess. 4:15-17 was meant to reassure them. It's pretty obvious that Paul believed that he'd still be alive at the end when he says, "we who are alive, who remain". Of course, Paul also believed that there were three levels of existance, Heaven above, where they would, "meet the Lord in the air", Earth, and Sheol beolw, where the dead existed. That's just what you would expect from someone living then. Paul had no idea that the Earth was a ball revolving around one star out of uncounted billions. In any case. people have believed they were living in the end times ever since Paul was around. They say the signs are all there. They're right about that. The signs are always there, because those signs are part of life on this planet. There's never been a time when current events couldn't be interpreted as signs that "the end is near". I am glad I am not the only one who sees that. |
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes... Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? Your premise is incorrect. The apostles believed Jesus' return for his church - his bride - would occur during their lifetimes. As far as the judgement of this earth, that would begin after the church departed and culminate at the second coming of Christ, and there are certain things that have to occur first. 2 Thess 1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
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I agree...............the horror of the End Times and Tribulation descriptions in Left Behind are nowhere near how things will be...........I dont think anyone could imagine the things that people will go through, yet those who know Christ will come through
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I think that the world at large is about to be in for the surprise of their lives, and unfortunatly for some or even many, the most spectacular, and most glorious or for the non-believing, terrifing and the most horrific events that the world has ever seen and will experiance depending on which side of the fence, so to speak, that a person will end up on at a time, and assuradly coming soon No matter which side of the fence you're on, it's going to be horrific. The discriminator is hope. People on Christ's side of the fence have it... those on the other side do not. Hope makes all the difference. I think the only commonality among Christian ideas about the coming troubles is that none of them are right. This isn't going to be a cute Left Behind story... |
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes... Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? Your premise is incorrect. The apostles believed Jesus' return for his church - his bride - would occur during their lifetimes. What does this mean? |
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I have read through the NT several times over the course of my life, and one thing that sticks out to me is that the Apostles/original disciples seemed to believe that the end times and judgement would happen within their lifetimes... Here we are, what, around 1,972 years after the death of Jesus and things are still plugging along... It seems that each generation from this original generation has had signs and problems that some took to mean the end of the world... Some people say there are more now than ever, but I dispute this... if nothing else WWII / Cold War had more signs than now... and here we are in 2010. I know it says "no one knows the time except the father" but at what point does this end of the world view become silly? Year 2050? 2500? 3000? Your premise is incorrect. The apostles believed Jesus' return for his church - his bride - would occur during their lifetimes. You have anything to support that notion? Even if they did, their understanding of prophecy is not necessarily to be taken as Gospel. |
| I thought that they were expecting the end of the Jewish System and the end of them as a nation of Gods chosen people. That happened when Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70 and scattered the survivor's. They had all the signs of the end of days at that time. earthquakes, famine, war ect.... Christianity then officially replaced Judaism. I don't think the current State of Israel even comes into play. |
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Paul, writing in 1 Thessalonians 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Paul was teaching that the end would come within the lifetimes of most of the people he was writing to. |
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Paul, writing in 1 Thessalonians 4: [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Paul was teaching that the end would come within the lifetimes of most of the people he was writing to. That is exactly my point... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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For nearly 2000 years, Christians have been looking forward to Jesus' return, an event which was supposed to lead to the "Kingdom of God" and, according to some writings, usher in a millennium of Jesus' rule. The New Testament is the source of these ideas. However, many believers are unaware of what the Bible writers, and Jesus himself, had to say about the timeframe for these momentous events.
Historical analysis of New Testament writings shows that Jesus, as well as the apostles who followed him, believed he would be returning within a relatively short time, within the lifetimes of people then living. The following quotes are from the RSV. Matthew 24: Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning a great tribulation, and signs of his return. In 24:34, speaking to the people around him, he said: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place." Matthew 10: Jesus spoke about how to accomplish the preaching work. He said to proclaim that "the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." And in 10:23, he said: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes." Mark 9:1: "...Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." Some have tried to re-interpret these verses in various ways, claiming they mean something besides the obvious. For example, some have claimed that "the kingdom of God come with power" does not refer to Jesus' second coming. But in Luke 21:31-32, Jesus spoke of various signs of the end: "So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place." To Jesus, the coming of "the kingdom of God" was clearly equivalent to all having "taken place". A belief that Jesus' return was imminent was also shared by all of the apostles. Their belief was evidently based on Jesus' own words as described above. The apostles wrote letters to Christian communities, which often refer to the time being short, or the end being near. In 1 Corinthians 7:26 the apostle Paul gave his advice concerning marriage "in view of the impending distress". He went on to write: "the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none." (7:29) (Personally, I don't know many married Christians who live as though they had no wife.) Paul made reference to some "punishments" of early Hebrews in 1 Cor. 10. He wrote: "Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come." The writer of the epistles of Peter also believed that time was short. In 1 Peter 4:7 he wrote: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers." Interestingly, in 2 Peter 3 the writer went to some lengths to explain why God seemed so slow in bringing about that end. On the so-called "Day of Pentecost" (Acts 2), Jesus' disciples supposedly began speaking in tongues in Jerusalem. The apostle Peter spoke of this as being to fulfill a prophecy: "And in the last days it shall be, God declares...". But clearly, this Day of Pentecost was not the time of the last days. The writer of 1 John 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour." The opening verse of Revelation reads: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place..." It's interesting to compare the ending of Revelation to the ending of the Old Testament book of Daniel. The writer of Daniel meant his prophecies for a much later time, thus he wrote in 12:4: "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end..." The words of Revelation 22:10 are in striking contrast: "... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." One can really sense the fervent expectation in Revelation's final, "Come, Lord Jesus!". While Jesus and the apostles believed and reported that his second coming was imminent, over 1900 years have passed since it was supposed to have taken place. Indeed, by Old Testament standards (Deut. 18:22), Jesus and his apostles would have been considered "false prophets". In all ages since that time, people have looked to Jesus' return as a deliverance from humanity's problems. This quick, supernatural solution is very appealing, especially to those who despair that humans can never solve their problems on their own. But in light of the above, people need to recognize that this hope is an illusion. If solutions to our problems are to be found, perhaps they lie not in supernatural miracles, but in ourselves. |
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The Olivet Discourse explains it.
Jesus will not let his bride, the Church, endure the tribulation which lasts 7 years, the 70th week on Daniel's prophecy. Revelation explains clearly the tribulation years (7) and it's not going to be fun for anyone. We are seeing, daily, the fulfillment of prophecy, and it's happening rapidly. Once the peace treaty is signed with Israel, it's all over for Christians. Isa., Psalms, and Ezekiel will happen at some point, but I don't think Christians will be here for any of those scenarios. We will be caught up, in the twinkling of the eye, to meet Jesus in the clouds before the tribulation. We don't have to go through this. HH |
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Quoted:
The Olivet Discourse explains it. Jesus will not let his bride, the Church, endure the tribulation which lasts 7 years, the 70th week on Daniel's prophecy. Revelation explains clearly the tribulation years (7) and it's not going to be fun for anyone. We are seeing, daily, the fulfillment of prophecy, and it's happening rapidly. Once the peace treaty is signed with Israel, it's all over for Christians. Isa., Psalms, and Ezekiel will happen at some point, but I don't think Christians will be here for any of those scenarios. We will be caught up, in the twinkling of the eye, to meet Jesus in the clouds before the tribulation. We don't have to go through this. HH well said 1 Corinthians 2:14 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2 Peter 3:3-4 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." |