Posted: 11/2/2014 10:00:24 AM EDT
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I'm rebuilding my 3rd rear end now. First 2 went good.
This one has me stumped. The pinion bearings are being preloaded before the crush sleeve starts crushing. It's a Ford 8.8 rearend, Ford Racing 3.73 gears and a Ford Racing Diff Rebuild Kit. The bearings that come out match the numbers as the ones going in. Bearings match the races, races installed great, bearings are on shaft great. I haven't measured their thickness, but something here has to be different. My brother suggested spinning a custom washer on the lathe to go behind the crush washer to bring it out more so it will get crushed. I was thinking of just going with a crush sleeve eliminator, but after seeing a picture of one, it probably won't come with enough shims to get where It needs to be (won't include enough shims). Any ideas? |
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Quoted:
Absolutely positive the races are fully seated. I even checked with a .001" shim - it won't fit under. I probably will buy the crush sleeve eliminator if I can confirm the shims included are more than the sleeve's current height: .510" Are you trying to reuse a sleeve? Has the shoulder on the pinion gear been damaged or "spun" down? It should work. Rest assured the one I used on my mustang looked nothing like the pictures shown |
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Not reusing a crush sleeve, I have several brand new crush sleeve's and they all measure around .510".
It's a brand new set of Ford Racing 3.73 gears. I compared the shoulder to pinion head distance on a couple of other Ford pinions laying around and they are the same. On the pinion depth shim, I only added .002" over what came off the factory gear. |
| Are you putting the crush sleeve between the 2 bearings or between the nut and the outside bearing? It needs to go between the 2 bearings. Is the inside bearing in backwards? Tapers should face each other. Make certain the races are seated.The only way you will get preload is if one of these things is going on. |
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Are you putting the crush sleeve between the 2 bearings or between the nut and the outside bearing? It needs to go between the 2 bearings. That's about the only thing that would cause this. But I'm not sure if you did the pinion nut would even start in that case |
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Haha, yeah the crush sleeve is on the shaft before the the outer pinion bearing.
I played around some more with my fancy Snap On Tech Angle wrench. I tightened the nut to where I started getting preload and the resulting torque was around 40 foot pounds (on a used nut I heated the loc tite out of). I then went to 150 lb ft (the minimum the crush sleeve starts to crush) and the pinion would barely rotate. And I probably ruined the brand new bearings doing that too. Either the machining in the housing was wrong (unlikely) or these bearings (or races) are too tall. The races are seated, I checked with a .001" shim, no gaps. The races are in the housing, back to back, the bearings are taper to taper. |
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Quoted:
Haha, yeah the crush sleeve is on the shaft before the the outer pinion bearing. I played around some more with my fancy Snap On Tech Angle wrench. I tightened the nut to where I started getting preload and the resulting torque was around 40 foot pounds (on a used nut I heated the loc tite out of). I then went to 150 lb ft (the minimum the crush sleeve starts to crush) and the pinion would barely rotate. And I probably ruined the brand new bearings doing that too. Either the machining in the housing was wrong (unlikely) or these bearings (or races) are too tall. Where were these bearings made? |
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They are Koyo, came in the Ford Racing rebuild kit.
Here's their part numbers, if it helps. http://www.ratechmfg.com/pop_up_order%20205B.htm M802048 KOYO M802048 M802011 KOYO M802011 M88010 KOYO M88010 M88048 KOYO M88048 LM603049 KOYO LM603049 LM603012 KOYO LM603012 They're the same bearings I used in 2 other axles... |
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Quoted:
They are Koyo, came in the Ford Racing rebuild kit. Here's their part numbers, if it helps. http://www.ratechmfg.com/pop_up_order%20205B.htm M802048 KOYO M802048 M802011 KOYO M802011 M88010 KOYO M88010 M88048 KOYO M88048 LM603049 KOYO LM603049 LM603012 KOYO LM603012 They're the same bearings I used in 2 other axles... Koyo makes a good bearing and are in fact what I used on my 8.8 rebuild |
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Quoted:
They are Koyo, came in the Ford Racing rebuild kit... Quoted:
They are Koyo, came in the Ford Racing rebuild kit... I just noticed you used Koyo bearings. I personally had problems with Koyo 9" pinion bearings in the past. The inner races were too long/deep. I ended up going with Timken. I have always used Timken for my 8.8 builds. Quoted:
The axle is now 2 hours away at my weekend address. When I return on Friday, I think I'm going to put a .075" - .100" spacer behind the crush sleeve and experiment and see what happens. Bring a fresh set of Timken or other bearings which are not Koyo |
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Got it put together today. My brother wound up making a .075" spacer to go behind the crush sleeve.
I sacrificed a crush sleeve in order to measure one with the spacer. It measure .440 plus the .075 spacer. That's why I never could get to the .510 (uncrushed) crush sleeve to work before. The 3 crush sleeves removed from the rebuilds all measure .446" .448" I took some pictures with my phone, I'll try to get some up tomorrow. These pain in the ass bearings From a Ford Racing kit. I'll get the rear end installed next weekend and give it a shakedown... |
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Crush sleeves are such a pita. i would much prefer pre-load shims.
You have such a narrow window to achieve the proper pre-load and the clamping force starts climbing exponentially as soon as the inner race and crush sleeve make contact. Does that tech angle due rolling torque? |
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I was going to order a crush sleeve eliminator, but never got an answer back on the thickness of shims included.
The digital Snap-On torque wrenches should tell you rolling torque. My Snap On C Tech 3/8" drive only goes down to 60 lbin, so it wouldn't help here. I' have no idea what the 1/4" goes down to, and my 1/2" Tec Angle goes down to 12.5 lbft. You set the value and start turning and can see the current torque applied, but once you let off, the max torque the wrench saw is displayed. |
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Correct crush sleeve? I had an "expert" install mine in my old '95 Mustang GT. I knew I was in trouble when a guy in a new Shelby pulled up complaining about pinion noise in the middle of the job. I started reading the factory service manual afterwards and there it was in big bold letters "DO NOT USE AN IMPACT WRENCH TO DRAW DOWN THE CRUSH SLEEVE DUE TO DAMAGING THE PINION BEARINGS." Exactly what this jack wagon did. And now it needs rebuilding since I installed the rearend in my sons car.
I did find a guy that works at a dealership that is supposed to be damned good at it to go back through it again. But he's going to have to pay dealership prices. |