Posted: 12/19/2010 10:56:18 PM EDT
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2nd gear-2500 RPM. Any idea how fast? Also the speed range for second?
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http://www.gearingcommander.com/
About the most fun online calculator to play with that there is. By that site, the '00-'03 R1 will do 23.3mph at 2500rpm in second gear. For the same model years, redline is 11,750rpm, so top speed in second gear is just over 109mph. It's not geared as tall as the later models, apparently. |
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The R1 does 101 in first bumping the rev limiter. Since it's a tight 6 gearing you'll see maybe 110-115 when bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd. As far as range it's going to be from 0 - ~115. You can start in 2nd if you feather the clutch. It's going to be bogged down until you approach 8k RPMS and the power band starts to come in. |
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1000cc bikes started getting what are called "Close Ratio Transmissions" in the 2004/5 year range. They used to put these on race bikes because there were a lot of race tracks that had most of the corners that were too fast for 1st gear but 2nd would bog the motor. There was a side benefit in that the remaining gears were shorter so the bikes accelerated much faster once the bike got on the boil. This is completely different than a sprocket swap BTW.
As the bikes got faster (read: over 150hp at the wheel) it became necessary to make first gear taller and taller to at least help keep the front wheel on the ground. A 100mph first gear still doesn't help much.. 
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Close ratio transmissions on motorcycles are there for one thing, so the engine powerband can better match the transmission gearing at race speeds.
First gear is so tall for one reason, to get the motorcycle up to speed so the close ratio transmission can be put into use. |
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That's another way to look at it-and kind of exactly like I said-, but in the 1990's things were different than they are today with stock street bikes. You could buy ZX7's, RC30 / RC45's and FZR750RR / OWO1 / YZF750SP's that had close ratio transmissions back in the "olden days". 
Even the FZ750 from the mid-80's had a killer close ratio transmission. 
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As the bikes got faster (read: over 150hp at the wheel) it became necessary to make first gear taller and taller to at least help keep the front wheel on the ground. A 100mph first gear still doesn't help much.. Of everything you have ever posted this is the one thing you are way off the mark.
A close ratio transmission (tall first gear) is not there to help keep the front end on the ground, it's there to get the bike up to speed to keep the engine in the powerband in 2nd through 6th gears. Most manufacturers used a "wheelie wire" back in the "olden days" to retard the timing in first gear / the lower gears, now days the black box uses inputs from the throttle position sensor, selected gear and engine rpm's to use an ignition curve map to keep the HP low in first gear / lower gears. On my 83 GpZ1100 the only way I had to adjust the fuel / air mixture was to use an in-line rheostat on the head temp sensor, it would fool the DFI into thinking the engine was cold, so it would inject more fuel into the throttle bodies. Idle / off idle was controlled by the throttle position sensor, you could drill the TPS plugs off and adjust them for the smoothest idle (different than "syncing" the linkage). There was no input from the engine, transmission or the speedometer. |
my 08 1000rr is a pain in the a$$ to keep the front down 1st-4th gear!!! if you want to stay alive on the street or track on the newer liter bikes you NEED to have good throttle control  im not real familiar with the r1 but i would say redline in 2nd should be around 110-120mph.
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As the bikes got faster (read: over 150hp at the wheel) it became necessary to make first gear taller and taller to at least help keep the front wheel on the ground. A 100mph first gear still doesn't help much.. Of everything you have ever posted this is the one thing you are way off the mark.
A close ratio transmission (tall first gear) is not there to help keep the front end on the ground, it's there to get the bike up to speed to keep the engine in the powerband in 2nd through 6th gears. Most manufacturers used a "wheelie wire" back in the "olden days" to retard the timing in first gear / the lower gears, now days the black box uses inputs from the throttle position sensor, selected gear and engine rpm's to use an ignition curve map to keep the HP low in first gear / lower gears. On my 83 GpZ1100 the only way I had to adjust the fuel / air mixture was to use an in-line rheostat on the head temp sensor, it would fool the DFI into thinking the engine was cold, so it would inject more fuel into the throttle bodies. Idle / off idle was controlled by the throttle position sensor, you could drill the TPS plugs off and adjust them for the smoothest idle (different than "syncing" the linkage). There was no input from the engine, transmission or the speedometer. I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree here bud,..... I can't even begin to imagine riding a modern liter-bike with a 75-85mph first gear. It would be just about worthless. I'm riding a 6 year old GSXR and I can't use more than half throttle thru the mid range, and that's with a 106mph first gear, retarded ignition timing, retarded exhaust valve opening and lean mapping in the lower gears. In fact, the only gear that is not electronically limited in some way is 5th. There's absolutely no reason to have shorter gearing on a street/racebike when you can flip it at will. An RC30 or ZX7RR made 115hp back in their day and had peaky powerbands with no midrange. Nowadays bikes make 170-185 at the wheel and have tons of midrange. The tall first gear is no accident-it's not like the 85 mph first gear on an R1 back in '99 wouldn't have gotten you thru any tight corner at Mid Ohio. |
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I own a 2008 Honda CBR-1000rr with an FMF pipe and timing retard eliminator. The one thing I don't do is crack the throttle in first gear unless I want the front end to come up so fast I flip the bike before I can react to chop the throttle. That's assuming the rear tire sticks. The bike can easily bring the front end off the ground at 120mph on it's own power without tugging at the bars. Top speed is about 180mph. On my Honda, in second gear at 2500rpm I'm guessing the bike will be doing about 15mph, no useable power until 4000rpm, at 6000rpm it's shoving you backwards into the cowling, when your ass hit's the cowl, the front end comes up and it's hold on Bessie time. Third gear happens at 120, 4th 150, 5th 160, 6th 170. You can run from zero to banging the rev limiter in 6th in about 15 seconds. |
| I've noticed that alot of you guys are saying that you can't keep the front end down on your CBR1000RR. On my 2009 Repsol, I don't have that problem, I'm guessing due to seating position. I crowd the tank, and I have zero problems with wheelies. It'll carry the front end through first about 18" or so, and maybe 6" in second, and that is about it. If I sit way back in the seat, it will try and bounce me off of my skull. Maybe you guys should try that, if you are able to. I'm only 5'8" and 160lbs, so I don't use all of the seat. |
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I've noticed that alot of you guys are saying that you can't keep the front end down on your CBR1000RR. On my 2009 Repsol, I don't have that problem, I'm guessing due to seating position. I crowd the tank, and I have zero problems with wheelies. It'll carry the front end through first about 18" or so, and maybe 6" in second, and that is about it. If I sit way back in the seat, it will try and bounce me off of my skull. Maybe you guys should try that, if you are able to. I'm only 5'8" and 160lbs, so I don't use all of the seat. There are a few things that make a bike more or less wheelie prone-one is how many links have been removed from the chain to shorten the wheelbase, the other is cranking the shock preload up so the rear end doesn't squat under acceleration. I did a race school in the 1996 on my GSXR where they helped us set our bikes up thru the day as we went faster. Immediately, my bike was starting to wheelie like the magazines claimed it did-I though mine was made on a Monday or something. The reason your CBR doesn't wheelie at will is that, well, it's a Honda. Their corporate philosophy has always been about making controllable bikes that are easy to ride. The unfortunate result is that the bikes have bland power delivery (relatively speaking) and the chassis are set up on the conservative side. You may have noticed that historically, the only times a CBR is competitive is if HRC had a hand in the bike. It takes a boatload of money to make a CBR competitive. I kind of think of CBR's as a bike you would want to have if every road you ride is the first time going down that road-the neutral feel and lazy (relatively speaking) handling are welcome on a day where you don't know where the road goes. For my purposes, I'd rather have the ability to twist up the wick and wheelie-I hate it when a bike is just on the verge of a wheelie and the front wheel picks up pavement imperfections and starts to tankslap. It's not a safety thing, the tank slapping is a distraction. Better to just roost over the bumps with a little more throttle-it took a long time to get to where I could ride around "problems" like that though. ETA: Rider weight also has a lot to do with how wheelie happy a bike is-the heavier the guy is the more it wants to wheelie. I'm the same height and weight as you are, BTW. |
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I'm 6'2", 250lbs, suspension setup is stiff. Preload, rebound and compression damping are close to max. The z-bomb and pipe remove the flat spot near the top of the powerband. Sounds like a set of cams and a race ecu might help assuming the bike is mapped properly. Honda goes out of their way to make bikes with power deliver that is as exciting as a chain link fence. When the first year CBR900RR came out it was an animal and every year after that it got softer. From then on up until the last 2 years of the CBR1000RR, the CBR's were always the softest, most mild mannered bikes in their class. Best of luck, Dave |