Posted: 3/9/2012 10:47:00 PM EDT
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences.
I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. |
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. When you say average, is that what you bring home? How much do you charge per transaction? How much is that amount split between you, visa/mastercard, and the place that let you install the atm? Who do you contract to replenish the ATM and how often? |
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. When you say average, is that what you bring home? How much do you charge per transaction? How much is that amount split between you, visa/mastercard, and the place that let you install the atm? Who do you contract to replenish the ATM and how often? Yes, sorry. The figures I mentioned are my monthly profits from the transaction fees. I charge $2.50 per transaction on all of them currently. Most ATM processors that I've seen will give you the full transaction fee, and make their money elsewhere (some sort of backend exchange fees that are traded between the banks and processors for each transaction; I've always assumed it came out of the other fee the bank charges). So I get the full $2.50 and I payout $0.50 currently. Since I'm only dealing with 3 ATM's, I reload them myself. With the seasonal ATM's, they get refilled once per week during the busy season. Sometimes twice if there is an event going on at the restaurant. On a busy weekend, it might dole out $5,000. The third location gets refilled about once every two weeks. |
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How much is a machine? There are several manufacturers who create machines of varying quality. All of my machines are Tritons that I purchased new for about $1,900 each. The vault on these machines are not that secure in my opinion and I would only use them at indoor locations that have security cameras and an alarm service. If I wanted to put a machine in a location that was outdoors or had a lower security posture, I might opt for more expensive equipment and some additional security features. |
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Rgr that. How is it that you refill them yourself. Wouldn't a Brinks guy do that? You'd have to be carrying around some serious dough...dangerous? The most I would ever put in a machine at one time is $5,000, and that would be at one of the restaurants prior to a big event. Most other times all the machines get $2,000-$3,000 per loading...not such a big deal. I am, of course, armed with an HK USPc, and I never visit the locations on a routine schedule. I try to get there just before they open so that I can be allowed in to do the reload while the place is still locked. I think most folks start off this way and then contract with a armored car company later once they have a lot of machines running. |
| One other thing I'll mention is that I have a $2,000 daily withdrawal limit on the bank account I use to fund these machines. So if a machine runs out of money on a busy Sunday, I can get up to $2,000 out of my bank while it's closed to go fill the ATM. Another nice thing about this is that I can often hit my bank's ATM and get a nice stack of 20's from it that I know should work just fine to stock my machines. |
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Great topic, thanks for all the information. So you pay out $.50 per transaction -to the host business/location? How does one go about setting up the data side of the installation, choosing a service, etc. Thanks. Yes, I am paying $0.50 per transaction to the locations that allow me to place my machines there. This is a pretty low payout and I think you will find that it's far more common to see ATM businesses paying a little more, especially if it's a sought-after location. I shopped around a lot prior to settling with the ATM processor who sold me all 3 machines (ATMNetwork.net). Frankly, I found every company I dealt with to be somewhat shady, similar to what I've experienced with credit card processing. Sales responses and customer service with all of them were poor, even ATMNetwork.net. The reviews of every company I looked at included people who complained about fraud and hidden charges. However, in the end, their processing is reliable and I always get what I want and need from them, even though it sometimes takes some extra effort on my part. Most of these places will sell you an ATM, new or used, and ship it to you. They will send out an installer to bolt the machine down and configure it. You need to have a spot set aside for the machine and an available phone or ethernet line for an Internet link. Some of the ATM's support a wireless card too and can be attached to a wireless network to handle communications. Once you've seen an installer do it once, you can probably handle future setups yourself. People with more experience, money, or machines will probably tell you they do it differently. |
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How long is the delay from ATM transaction to the processing company's deposit into your bank account? I'm assuming it's similar to a credit card processor - just a few days.
Do you have to pay your bank for cash processing, since you are regularly withdrawing several thousand dollars from your bank? Do you have written contracts with the store owners regarding placement, compensation, duties of both parties, etc? If so, could you post a blank contract (if not proprietary)? What have you found to increase usage of the machines? Is there a type of location that works better than others? Based on the float you have to provide (bunch o' cash) and the machine costs, what profit margin are you making? How much maintenance do the machines require, and is it expensive? Can you do most yourself or have to sub it out? Thanks for the info! I've always been interested in these. |
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How long is the delay from ATM transaction to the processing company's deposit into your bank account? I'm assuming it's similar to a credit card processor - just a few days. It's usually 2-3 days with my processor. Do you have to pay your bank for cash processing, since you are regularly withdrawing several thousand dollars from your bank? No, I have not run into that. I'm with Wells Fargo right now. Do you have written contracts with the store owners regarding placement, compensation, duties of both parties, etc? If so, could you post a blank contract (if not proprietary)? I started working on a contract last year and have not finished. I'm in all three businesses with a handshake. Either of us can end the relationship at any time. If I put a few more machines out, I will definitely lock in locations to one year at a set surcharge payout. Some of the processor companies will give you a blank contract to use. What have you found to increase usage of the machines? Is there a type of location that works better than others? My only experience so far has been with restaurants. Placement of the machine can help; I'm told to keep them near front doors and highly visible. Placing large stickers that say ATM on the doors to the business can help. Most of the companies that sell you ATM's will give you a free light-up sign to hang in a window at the location too. Nothing can beat setting up at a good location. I've heard that strip clubs are tough to beat. People gladly pay $5 or $10 surcharges and generate a lot of transactions. Of course, these club owners know that and they manage their own machines. Based on the float you have to provide (bunch o' cash) and the machine costs, what profit margin are you making? Although you need some cash to get started, your money is tied up in the machine and the cash to stock it. If you wanted to get out of the business, you would have all your cash and could sell the machine at a small loss. I love that about this business. I have about $5700 in expenses from purchasing the machines, and keep about $7,000 to $9,000 on hand to stock them. I won't be making a profit until the machines have been paid for by the transaction surcharges. It will be a few more months for me before that has happened; I just got into this last summer; one of my locations just came online. How much maintenance do the machines require, and is it expensive? Can you do most yourself or have to sub it out? I haven't had to deal with any maintenance issues yet and all my machines are covered by a one-year warranty. I've heard mixed things about the Tritons, and know that future out-of-pocket repair costs can be quite price. A damn extra cassette for the bills is around $300, IIRC. I'd like to have another cassette since it would make refills easier and more secure (in and out in seconds), but I haven't been able to justify that high price. Thanks for the info! I've always been interested in these. No problem, I actually got into them after reading a popular thread on another forum (2plus2 poker forum). Comments in red. |
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Could you list some prime locations? I know you mentioned strip clubs. How about malls? When I was actively researching this last summer I probably could have given you some better info on locations. Anywhere there is a lot of foot traffic and a need for spending cash is going to be a prime spot for an ATM. As such, those spots are nearly impossible to get unless you get creative or know someone. I've read that fairgrounds are great spots because they have multiple events throughout the year and your machines will see a ton of foot traffic. There will be weeks on end where you get no money, however, since events can be sporadic. I've seen folks bring in portable ATM's that just sit there for a given event too. I would think a mall would be an awesome spot to put an ATM, and perhaps difficult to establish. I bet the businesses leasing space in shopping malls are forbidden from operating ATM's so that strategically placed machines owned by large banks will get all the business. I only base that on my observation at large malls where none of the retailers have ATM's. |
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Is electricity covered by the retailer?
What do you do when bills get stuck, or do they? How do you know when money runs out, what do you do if the place is packed at the time? Funny story, my uncle was into arcade games and bought a Mrs pack-man when it first came out. Next day he starts getting all these mad phone calls saying it broken. He goes to take a look and when he opens it all these quarters start falling out. It was played so many times in 1 day that quarters had filled all the space and were coming back up the coin slot. He has a fondness for Mrs pack-man to this day. |
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Just curious do you load the ATM's with one bill in specific (IE: 20's , 10's) or is there options? I believe most or all ATM's in the USA use $20 bills. Speaking just for Diebold, NCR, and Fujitsu machines they can be configured to dispense any bill denomination from $1 - $100. With Diebold machines, they can also be configured to dispense postage stamp sheets or vouchers/coupons. The way this is done is the cash cassettes are given a specific coding value. With Diebold machines this is done via raised plastic buttons on the back of the cash cassettes with the various configurations having values from Type A to Type H. Each value has the denomination it corresponds to determined by the processing network but typical values are A=$1, B=$5, etc. with G=postage stamps and H=vouchers/coupons. Diebold machines can be configured to dispense up to 4 different denominations at once. NCR cassettes are configured with magnetic rods. The rods are placed in an up or down (based on the positive pole of the magnet) position in any of 4 different slots in a compartment on the right side (if looking at it from the front) of the cash cassette depending on what configuration value the cassette is supposed to have. Can't recall the different values off the top of my head and would have to look them up. My experience with Fujis is quite limited and it's been so long since I've dealt with them I don't remember much about them except they can indeed dispense any denomination. Many bigger banks are moving toward deposit automation where users are able to deposit checks and cash direct into the ATM without an envelope so that the funds are available immediately. With this advent of deposit automation, some banks are choosing to allow users to use the check acceptors as check cashers. This necessitates the ATMs being able to dispense denominations such as $1s and $5s. If there is any change remainder it is deposited into the user's account unless the ATM is equipped with a coin dispenser, but those are pretty uncommon. ATMs in high dollar environments such as casinos and race tracks are the machines that are typically equipped with the higher $50 and $100 denominations. |
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Is electricity covered by the retailer? In my case, it's never been brought up...I guess I would suggest that it's paid for from the surcharge cut that the location receives. What do you do when bills get stuck, or do they? I've received a few complaints of people being shorted and I've found bills stuck in the slot twice. It's rare in my experience and I always make sure the bills are flattened out with no turned corners. How do you know when money runs out, what do you do if the place is packed at the time? There are a few ways (that I know of) to configure a machine to alert you when the cash supply is running low. My processor supplies some online tools and one of them sends me an email whenever a machine has less than $300 in it. Funny story, my uncle was into arcade games and bought a Mrs pack-man when it first came out. Next day he starts getting all these mad phone calls saying it broken. He goes to take a look and when he opens it all these quarters start falling out. It was played so many times in 1 day that quarters had filled all the space and were coming back up the coin slot. He has a fondness for Mrs pack-man to this day. |
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Just curious do you load the ATM's with one bill in specific (IE: 20's , 10's) or is there options? I believe most or all ATM's in the USA use $20 bills. Speaking just for Diebold, NCR, and Fujitsu machines they can be configured to dispense any bill denomination from $1 - $100. With Diebold machines, they can also be configured to dispense postage stamp sheets or vouchers/coupons. The way this is done is the cash cassettes are given a specific coding value. With Diebold machines this is done via raised plastic buttons on the back of the cash cassettes with the various configurations having values from Type A to Type H. Each value has the denomination it corresponds to determined by the processing network but typical values are A=$1, B=$5, etc. with G=postage stamps and H=vouchers/coupons. Diebold machines can be configured to dispense up to 4 different denominations at once. NCR cassettes are configured with magnetic rods. The rods are placed in an up or down (based on the positive pole of the magnet) position in any of 4 different slots in a compartment on the right side (if looking at it from the front) of the cash cassette depending on what configuration value the cassette is supposed to have. Can't recall the different values off the top of my head and would have to look them up. My experience with Fujis is quite limited and it's been so long since I've dealt with them I don't remember much about them except they can indeed dispense any denomination. Many bigger banks are moving toward deposit automation where users are able to deposit checks and cash direct into the ATM without an envelope so that the funds are available immediately. With this advent of deposit automation, some banks are choosing to allow users to use the check acceptors as check cashers. This necessitates the ATMs being able to dispense denominations such as $1s and $5s. If there is any change remainder it is deposited into the user's account unless the ATM is equipped with a coin dispenser, but those are pretty uncommon. ATMs in high dollar environments such as casinos and race tracks are the machines that are typically equipped with the higher $50 and $100 denominations. That's interesting about the check cashing...did not know that. Makes sense that casinos would want machines configured to handle larger dollar amounts too. |
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. What do you mean fell into your lap? Is it hard to find placements for ATMs unless you are friends with business owners because of the "big guys" already having contracts out for new locations? |
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. What do you mean fell into your lap? Is it hard to find placements for ATMs unless you are friends with business owners because of the "big guys" already having contracts out for new locations? I mean that I was not actively marketing any service to provide ATM's for businesses. After mentioning my small venture to some friends and families, other opportunities just appeared. I think most ATM's are probably owned by the same people who own the locations they are placed at. Anyone who owns a restaurant or gas station or small store knows they can buy a cheap ATM and stock it themselves and collect the surcharges. |
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Interesting. I won't try and take over, its the OPs thread but I will say I've been in the ATM business for almost 20 years now. I created the "placement" program with my first company that every ATM company now copies. If it has to do with an ATM, I've done it. Installs, service, sales, processing, beta testing for manufactures, just about every brand ever made. I can tell you brands that suck, are good, and are great. I can tell you how to get in, get out, run like crazy or grin and bear it. At our high we managed over 5,800 ATMs. Currently we run about 2,900 and I'm hoping to get that down to just a few hundred.
I will say to OP and others. Check your machine. March 15, 2012 was the deadline for ATMs to be fully ADA compliant. (OP said he had Tritons. What model? I can tell you if your compliant or if you need an upgrade, and if there is no upgrade available, machine replacement). If you machine is not in full compliance, you may find your terminal shut down with little to no notice. You are at a real risk of civil suit by attorneys running to find non compliant ATMs to sue the shit out of you. Also you better make sure your Reg. E fee notice is prominently placed on or about your ATM. Ask me how I know. I have three (3) federal lawsuits filed in one week already. Two are class action suits, and one is by a regular person, all over a sticker that was pealed off the ATM saying there would be a $2.00 fee. I'll be happy to give any advice to anyone who wants info on good equipment or bad, to good companies to bad. Most ATM companies are thieving bastards, and they continue to fuck up the business and because of them we are just about regulated out of business. Owning an ATM is one thing. Deploying ATMs as a business model, I would think long and hard. It isn't the same as it was 10 much less 5 years ago. Thanks to Fank/Dodd Act, its a nightmare for ATM ISO/Deployers like myself. Networks are cutting interchange, legislation is crippling the industry and increasing costs, Networks keep changing rules and price structures, sponsoring banks are demanding quarterly audits and increasing sponsorship requirements and increased fees. All the while locations are demanding more and more revenue share. Couple quick comments about some of the posts I read. Sorry, but the guys who work on them are not the guys to get purchasing info from. Diebold, NCR, Fujitsu are not even worth looking at unless your a financial institution. NCR 3600/3800 are now shit. (sorry). They used to be good when Tidel still made them, but now that NCR bought out Tidel several years ago, they just went and fucked up a decent product. Triton, Tranax, and Hyosug are the Dodge, Chevy and Fords of the low cost ATM market. Low cost does not mean they are crap. Low cost means a higher ROI. Anyone saying Hyosung is shit, doesn't know what they are talking about. Same with Triton, or Tranax. Sure they will have some problems, but majority problems are poor training or are user/owner screwing them up by jacking around with the configuration menu's. Plus if you have a multi cassette you just doubled (2 cassette) tippled (3 cassette) etc. your problems. Check cashing ATMs are a waste of money and hugely expensive. So are multi cassette units. Unless you have huge volume a single cassette ATM will cover 99% of all locations. Your smallest single cassette will hold 800-1000 notes. In $20 bills thats $16,000 - $20,000. (Brand new money, your typical vault cash will hold about 1/4 less because used bills expand). Get a 2000 note cassette if you think your going to be doing 1000+ transactions a month. They are only a couple hundred bucks extra. Selling stamps from an ATM is the most retarded thing ever conceived. Absolutely no profit margin,and the cost of adding a second cassette for the stamps you will never get your money back. Simple way to think is its and ATM. Add all the sizzle you want, and its still an ATM. Want to sell movie tickets, stamps, internet connections, etc? Your wasting money for all the "extras" that will NEVER BE USED. Its like having AC in Antarctica. Strip clubs are good, but all the high end ones own them them self and they make a shit load, so your wasting you time trying to break that market. Low end whore house strip clubs are ones you may be able to pick up, just be ready to die when your loading them. JK. Thats all I got time for now, I'll check back and see if any questions or OP can answer, or tell my thought on what you looking for. |
| Welcome Texas Infidel! I knew there were some folks here that had a lot of experience with ATM's and I look forward to asking you some questions. I'm concerned about the ADA stuff and not sure if I'm currently covered. My ATM's are all the same model and less than a year old...I don't recall the model number, perhaps they are RL-1600's? Do you know if those are ADA compliant? |
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Welcome Texas Infidel! I knew there were some folks here that had a lot of experience with ATM's and I look forward to asking you some questions. I'm concerned about the ADA stuff and not sure if I'm currently covered. My ATM's are all the same model and less than a year old...I don't recall the model number, perhaps they are RL-1600's? Do you know if those are ADA compliant? Thank you, RL1600s are ADA compliant so your GTG. Your mini mech dispenser/cassette is good, but you'll start to see some bill jam problems down the road. Those dispensers never will be as good as De La Rues 1700 dispenser. I've got units 15 years old still running 1700's with no service. Can't say that for NCR. Based on your volume it won't be for another two or three years. Don't use new bills. If your bank gives you new bills swap them out. You'll have more problems with brand new bills than used bills, especially with that dispenser. Take a can of air and spray out your dispenser gears and belts annually, or more often if they are in a dusty area. It's a good unit and perfect for your transaction volume and location. You should have a year+ manufactures warranty. You got a good unit at a good price. 3 days for settlement is two days to long. (Not counting weekends). Settlement works like cashing a check. If the transaction is made before 2:00 pm CST, it posts the next day. Any transaction after 2:00 will post the following business day. You shouldn't be waiting 3 days for your settlement return. I was approached to buy ATM Networks several years ago. |
Interesting to see so many people involved in such a niche market here on ARFCOM! Pretty cool! 
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Couple quick comments about some of the posts I read. Sorry, but the guys who work on them are not the guys to get purchasing info from. This is true. We on the service side aren't really all that privy to the sales and operations side of things. Speaking for myself, all I can do is try and offer information about how the ATMs function, what functions best, and maybe even repair advice. That advice is mostly limited to Diebold machines, NCR machines to a lesser extent, and Fujis to a very distant 3rd. Don't have any hands-on with Wincor or Hyosung so those are outside of my wheelhouse. From what I've heard Wincor machines are pretty good (the Germans always make great things!  ) and they are starting to gain popularity here in the US. From what I've heard of Hyosung, they are priced well and obviously are decent in reliability otherwise a big financial institution like Chase wouldn't be buying and deploying them in the numbers I've seen in my area (unless Hyosung is just giving them away to gain market share). Still, being new, I do think that makes them a bit unproven. A little more concerning is that they are coming from a company that does not have a strong background in the financial/banking sector.
I've done some limited wrenching on Tritons and Tranaxs but it was 7-8 years ago when I was first starting out in the ATM field. My impression of those is that they were fine for light duty use but the components were not made with much more than that in mind. By the way, if it means anything, I had the best repair numbers in my service branch last year.
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Diebold, NCR, Fujitsu are not even worth looking at unless your a financial institution. This I'd respectfully disagree with. The big thing it's really going to come down to is customer volume. If you get placement in an area that is going to see high volume, a lighter duty machine like a Triton or Tranax is just going to end up breaking more frequently and costing more money to keep in repair, especially if the end user is going with a lower end service contract. Think lots of billed parts and lots of billed hours to fix. Neither of which are inexpensive. It's probably true that the higher volume areas are already likely to be covered by the big boys but, I just want to let readers know that expecting a light duty Triton or Tranax to reliably handle heavy use is not realistic. Tritons and Tranaxs are probably adequate for most small-time owners though I can tell you, I think you would get far more peace of mind with a better built machine like a refurb Diebold or even NCR. One other ancillary aspect to consider is the crime rate in the area a machine is going to be placed in. I've got a whole folder on my computer full of pictures of Diebold machines from around the country that have held up to attempted break-ins and vandalism. Those light duty machines are inherently going to be less likely to defeat an attempted break-in or be vandal resistant. Quoted:
Triton, Tranax, and Hyosug are the Dodge, Chevy and Fords of the low cost ATM market. Low cost does not mean they are crap. Low cost means a higher ROI. Anyone saying Hyosung is shit, doesn't know what they are talking about. Same with Triton, or Tranax. Sure they will have some problems, but majority problems are poor training or are user/owner screwing them up by jacking around with the configuration menu's. Plus if you have a multi cassette you just doubled (2 cassette) tippled (3 cassette) etc. your problems. Personally, I don't think any of the above are shit. They are just lighter duty machines built to lighter specifications. Some customers end up getting them and try to use them in ways they aren't designed to be used and as a result they end up getting ragged out and being broken down, costing money instead of making it. To continue the vehicle analogy, you wouldn't use a Kia Optima to haul a horse trailer just as you wouldn't use an F-550 as a daily driver/grocery getter. If you're going to be servicing a lot of customers, buy once cry once. If you aren't, yeah, you may be better off with a less expensive alternative. I'd disagree about the number of cassettes multiplying problems in my experiences. Most of the problems I run simple service calls on are things like the software (usually Windows XP) hosing up, problems with the card readers and customers jamming cards their dog chewed on in there, or receipt printers jamming up. Cash problems do happen but that really comes down to the fitness of the cash and how it is loaded as opposed to the mechanics of the dispenser units. At some point in one of my hundreds of hours of training classes at corporate, I heard that a vast percentage of problems with cash dispense reliability comes down to cash fitness and loading. I wish I could recall the exact percentage but I don't. I do remember it being absurdly high though. Of course all dispenser units do have wear parts (feed wheels and transport belts in Diebolds and suction cups and non-field replaceable transport belts in NCRs) that will need replaced every so often but so long as those are kept up on, dispensers are generally pretty reliable. Quoted:
Selling stamps from an ATM is the most retarded thing ever conceived. You are 1000% spot on with that! Those bastards cause some of the most hellacious jams I end up having to clear. Nothing like having to break out a pick and forceps to get little tiny pieces of stamp out of the deepest depths of the transport path. Then having to try and get some alcohol on a swab down in there to clean out the adhesive left behind which, if you don't get all of it, will cause more hellacious jams! Anyone thinking of loading stamps, DON'T! Quoted:
Want to sell movie tickets, stamps, internet connections, etc? Your wasting money for all the "extras" that will NEVER BE USED. Its like having AC in Antarctica. Personally, I have never seen an ATM doing any of those things. If the big boys aren't doing it, that's probably a good indication it is a waste. Again, great discussion! I usually end up just hanging out and reading a lot on ARFCOM as proven by my join date and post count but it is nice to have a thread I can get in on and help others out with. |
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Take a can of air and spray out your dispenser gears and belts annually, or more often if they are in a dusty area. This! This! This! Canned air is your friend! We jokingly refer to it as "PM (Preventive Maintenance) In A Can".
Simply keeping dispensers clean and properly lubricated will go a very long way toward keeping your stuff working well. |
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I agree with your disagreements. But, I think most in this thread will be looking for retail ATM deployment, ones they own and place themselves. Locations that won't be doing 30,000+ transactions a month. If your volume is that high, then NCR is the best by far. For the typical retail location doing between 200 - 5000 transaction a month, I'd say your more than fine with Tranax, Triton, and Hyosung. Volume selecting model. Hyosung is a great company. And they have been around a long time. Just only recently (few years ago) opened shop here in the US. They are huge in South Korea. I had my doubts about them when they first came stateside, (Tranax/Cross) but they really are good units, and good parts availability. They have opened up a US office in Dallas. They sold over 50k units last year and will double or triple it this year. They are the force to recon with now, and their machines are solid good units. From the low end to high bank end units you'll start to see. They just make good reliable stuff. Tranax the Cross line (now Hantel) used to be the US importer for Hyosung. (Maybe why you thought Hyosung was new to the market) Tranax got greedy one day and started making an ATM of there own and selling them. Hyosung found out, canceled future import contracts and filed suit against Tranax. Thus the name change to Hantel. Hantel does make some decent units, (C4000) but the cassettes don't hold near anything they advertise. Tidel/NCR: What a nightmare. Tidle used to make good units. Tidle and NCR both got the ass fucking of a lifetime (I can't tell you how many times I met with them and warned them). A company called Credit Card Center was selling a shit ton of units. Fucked up the market and really put a dent in our sales and frustrated alot of our salesmen. Its also thanks to these idiots and others who copied them we are so regulated and looked down by any financial or government institution now. CCC took NCR to the ground for over $40 million, (for some reason I'm thinking it was closer to $60 mil), Tidel for almost $30 million back in 2001 I think. Long story short, NCR bought Tidels ATM side becasue NCR can't break into the low end retail market. They keep trying and failing. Like Mercedes can't make a good affordable car here. So what does NCR do? They fuck that up. TIdel used to be made in Dallas. NCR moved production to Mexico, and parts distribution to GA. Took over a year to get parts and equipment was non-existent. What a beating that was then. NCR is so out of touch, that they sent out the upgrade requirements/replacement software/hardware in regards to the March 15, ADA deadline on the evening of March 12, 2012 at almost 10:00 pm CST. Just three days before the ADA deadline. And they wonder why they can't sell shit to ATM ISOs. Triton was a great company. I loved the original owners. I go way back to the beginning with them. They sold to Dover and things just aren't the same. Big company buys small growing company, and try to run it like big company and treat the customers like AT&T treats you when you call for help. Good product, mediocre support. I still kinda stand by my mutli cassette comment. (for low end units, but they are getting better). They are just more moving parts and more can go wrong. And most won't need that configuration anyway. That being said I do have some muti cassette units I've never had a problem with. I have a multi cassette unit from Tidel that is 8 years old or so that we did a beta test site with. Still runs and never had an issue with the cassettes/dispenser, so go figure. Wincor Nixdorf. Never had any love for them. They were nice but cost much more than Tidel, Triton, Tranax, Cross etc., to do the same job. ROI was far better with like models from other manufactures that were just far less in cost. I look forward to this thread. |
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ADA Law
The ADA law is huge and is one that continually changes due to interpretation. Kinda like how ATF can have a ruling and then one day you find out shoe laces are illegal. In short an ATM must have audio capability and brail. Even drive up ATMs. Plug in your ear buds to hear what keys your pressing. It is estimated that 70-90% of all ATMs are non compliant. In fact most retail locations USA vs. QT most banks, US vs Wells Fargo, schools and even cities are not compliant in one fashion or another. Thing is your ATM can be compliant but unknown to you some shit put glue in the audio jack, and guess what.......federal lawsuit. ATM deployers are nervous because of frivolous lawsuits filed over the past few years regarding Fee Notification. (Like the 3 I got in one week). If you went to an ATM and the "Fee Notice" sticker (your being charged $2.00) isn't on or about the ATM, your in violation. I could walk up to a machine, peel the sticker off, do a transaction for $20 then snap a picture of the ATM with no fee sticker ( because I just peeled it off) and then sue the owner/operator for thousands. Doesn't matter that to get the cash I HAD to accept or reject the fee at the ATM during the course of the transaction. When you use an ATM, while your swiping your card, entering your PIN, etc., you must physically accept the fee which is spelled out on the screen of the ATM to get cash. If you don't accept, you don't get your cash. So even though you go through all that and physically see the fee on the screen, and then physically accept the fee, because a sticker was not on the ATM, the owner/operator is in violation and subject to a lawsuit. Now try and keep a sticker on 24/7/365 every time someone uses the machine. ADA isn't just geared to ATMs but everything. Pools and spas must have a lift for disabled people. How many hotels or public pools are compliant? That's just one aspect for pools. Access to the pool, barriers, etc., it doesn't just deal with blind or deaf people, but any disability, even those with HIV/Aids or people in drug treatment. 
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| TI, quick question. I have 3 ATM's deployed now and am considering putting a couple more out this year. What should I expect to pay an armored car service to stock them on a routine basis? I don't know at what point it becomes profitable for me to use such a service, but I'm interested in going that route if feasible. Thanks! |
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How far are they from you? What's the downside of you doing it yourself? We do our own armored service because the Armored companies don't train the guys loading the machines very well. For Diebold/NCR models, the armored guys are far more efficient. They have been loading and providing maintenance far longer because those are typically bank units and what they service most.
I wouldn't pay more than $50 a load. I havent bid armored out in several years, and with gas prices what they are now, and distance, that may be low now. I'd say 25-35 a load is ok, but it depends. I don't think you'll get under 35 but you may. If armored demand is high, they can ask for more, if low, you can start to negeociate the price better. Bigger armored companies are less negotiable than small local one, but the small ones can be moody and raise your costs with little to no notice. Down side, is if the machine breaks down and it's a dispenser/cassette issue, you have to make two calls. 1 to the armored company, and second to the technician (unless you work on the units or they are certified to work on the units. Certification just means they know enough to really fuck thigs up usually). You'll pay a higher price because it's not "scheduled" and if using a 3 party tech, your paying for the tech. If its a serious problem, you could be paying the armored guys and tech by the hour. The armored guys have to stay the whole time the tech is there. So if the tech is slow or incompetent, your paying for his on the job training and the armored guys to play Angry Birds. If its a weekend/holiday/night, plan on paying more from both tech and armored. They also waste paper. They want a roll every time they swap cassettes, and I had to argue, they just have to eyeball the paper and if 90% is still on the roll, let it be. We had tons of problems with armored. Turnover is high, so training is lacking. Those guys arent easy on equipment so damage to the dispenser/cassette was high. Life of equipment would be 1/4 of what it should be. They just gorilla grope the crap out of the equipment for some reason. It was so bad that every two weeks I would take a flight on Southwest, carry on a duffel bag of cash, rent a car, go load 3 machines, return rental and fly home.....and it cost less than using armored and never had a single hardware failure for the two years I did that. Depending how far the machines are, you may just load them yourself. You'll want more cash to lengthen out the time between loads, (lowers expenses) but that adds risk (more to be stolen). Go to often loading, you increase your costs in fuel and wear and tear on your vehicle. Be ready to go on weekends or days of big events and machine use is heavy. Makes it hard to leave town for vacation if you don't have someone you trust to service the machines while your away if needed, if your tight on cash. The more units you load the more cash intensive they become. Depending on volume, $6,000 could carry a machine 1 day or one month. What type of volume do you expect? What type of establishment is the location? How far is it from you? What is your split to the merchant? Do you have the cash, or will you be borrowing it? (loan). How often do you want to load it, once a week, every two weeks, monthly? Who is providing communications for the ATM? (you, more added expenses). I'm on an iPad so I'll return and read over this post and maybe add more when I'm at a computer. |
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Thanks TI, gives me some stuff to think about. If I could get armored service at around $35 per drop that would make my life a little easier. I'll do some shopping around. Two of the machines are within 20 minutes of me, the third is over an hour away. I try to fill each one no more than twice per month.
Corporal...I found companies who would insure my machines, but no one would insure the cash, even though I could prove their balances at anytime given the online tools you have with most of these. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. When you say average, is that what you bring home? How much do you charge per transaction? How much is that amount split between you, visa/mastercard, and the place that let you install the atm? Who do you contract to replenish the ATM and how often? Yes, sorry. The figures I mentioned are my monthly profits from the transaction fees. I charge $2.50 per transaction on all of them currently. Most ATM processors that I've seen will give you the full transaction fee, and make their money elsewhere (some sort of backend exchange fees that are traded between the banks and processors for each transaction; I've always assumed it came out of the other fee the bank charges). So I get the full $2.50 and I payout $0.50 currently. Since I'm only dealing with 3 ATM's, I reload them myself. With the seasonal ATM's, they get refilled once per week during the busy season. Sometimes twice if there is an event going on at the restaurant. On a busy weekend, it might dole out $5,000. The third location gets refilled about once every two weeks. I think I'm missing something ... You stock the machines with your own cash, right? Or no? |
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I mentioned that I had some Automated Teller Machines in another thread and some interest was shown in having a discussion about operating an ATM business. I'm not an expert and I know there are a few other people on ARFCOM who have more experience and own many more machines than I do. Hopefully they will visit this thread and share their experiences. I own 3 machines currently, all located at restaurants in the Northern Virginia area. I only intended to "test the waters" with an initial machine last year, but I took advantage of a few easy placements that fell into my lap. Two of the restaurants are seasonal and those machines do well only in the summer, averaging $300-$500 per month each. The other location has stable levels of foot traffic throughout the year, although its monthly averages are not as high at around $275 per month. I was attracted to this business due to the low hours and effort required to create income. While it still interests me some, I have no plans to put up additional machines anytime soon. I'll try to answer any questions I can. When you say average, is that what you bring home? How much do you charge per transaction? How much is that amount split between you, visa/mastercard, and the place that let you install the atm? Who do you contract to replenish the ATM and how often? Yes, sorry. The figures I mentioned are my monthly profits from the transaction fees. I charge $2.50 per transaction on all of them currently. Most ATM processors that I've seen will give you the full transaction fee, and make their money elsewhere (some sort of backend exchange fees that are traded between the banks and processors for each transaction; I've always assumed it came out of the other fee the bank charges). So I get the full $2.50 and I payout $0.50 currently. Since I'm only dealing with 3 ATM's, I reload them myself. With the seasonal ATM's, they get refilled once per week during the busy season. Sometimes twice if there is an event going on at the restaurant. On a busy weekend, it might dole out $5,000. The third location gets refilled about once every two weeks. I think I'm missing something ... You stock the machines with your own cash, right? Or no? Yes...I have a checking account dedicated only to my ATM operations. I keep X amount of my cash in it and every month my balance increases a little from the transaction fee deposits. |
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So you stock the ATM with, say $3000. Some guy comes along and takes out $20, and is charged $2.50. So you're lighter by $17.50. Where does the profit come in? The guy pulls $20 and is charged $2.50 by me, and probably $2.50 by his bank (so many people do this). I get $22.50 deposited into my business account from his bank, through my ATM processing company. |
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Whats the best way to secure placement for your ATM's? I think the market is pretty well saturated today; however, that doesn't mean you can't get into this as a business. My placements were through word-of-mouth, networking with friends and family, etc. I also keep my eyes open for broken ATM's at existing businesses. I come across them, in some good locations too, a few times a year. If I were actively trying to put out units right now, I'd send letters to the business owner touting my services each time I come across them. New construction projects can spawn retail or other opportunities for ATM placement. I have a couple standard cover letters I can send to any business on a whim. TI would probably have more input on this than I can provide. |
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Whats the best way to secure placement for your ATM's? I think the market is pretty well saturated today; however, that doesn't mean you can't get into this as a business. My placements were through word-of-mouth, networking with friends and family, etc. I also keep my eyes open for broken ATM's at existing businesses. I come across them, in some good locations too, a few times a year. If I were actively trying to put out units right now, I'd send letters to the business owner touting my services each time I come across them. New construction projects can spawn retail or other opportunities for ATM placement. I have a couple standard cover letters I can send to any business on a whim. TI would probably have more input on this than I can provide. What exactly do you mean by this? Do you have a guarantee of up time, always clean and good looking machines, low fees, offer to split fees, etc? What are you offering to get them to switch? |
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Whats the best way to secure placement for your ATM's? I think the market is pretty well saturated today; however, that doesn't mean you can't get into this as a business. My placements were through word-of-mouth, networking with friends and family, etc. I also keep my eyes open for broken ATM's at existing businesses. I come across them, in some good locations too, a few times a year. If I were actively trying to put out units right now, I'd send letters to the business owner touting my services each time I come across them. New construction projects can spawn retail or other opportunities for ATM placement. I have a couple standard cover letters I can send to any business on a whim. TI would probably have more input on this than I can provide. What exactly do you mean by this? Do you have a guarantee of up time, always clean and good looking machines, low fees, offer to split fees, etc? What are you offering to get them to switch? I operate with the assumption that a business owner who has a machine that is often broken may be interested in a new arrangement. I offer a cut of the fees; I'll do an even split if it's a high-volume location with a lot of foot traffic. I make no guarantee of uptime or cleanliness, although I do tend to wipe down the machines when I'm refilling them. |