Posted: 6/8/2007 10:48:48 AM EDT
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If I want a job (entry level) into the IT field, how important are certifications? I am talking entry level here. I already have a 4 year degree in MIS. I am looking at help desk/pc support. I noticed that a lot of potential employers say A+ certification is preferred....... |
| A+ is a good start and if you already know how to build and trouble shoot PC issues it should be easy to get the Cert. But don't stop there keep going. Get your MCSA/CCNA and you should be good. Help Desk will give you alot of good experience and knowledge but be prepared for some complete ass hats. |
I know, I just need a job. Nobody wants to give me one, even with a 4 year degree. I am already dealing with complete ass hats. |
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Unfortunately the market is tight right now. Experience is king. However, your BS is a great tool if you want to look into technology management. Program analyst, project manager, etc. It's a good field if you can work with people, particularly the rather peculiar bunch that make up most IT departments.  Forget the top tier stuff (enterprise routing/switching/server admin and engineering). Experience rules in those shops. Again, look at management, it will be easier for you to get into a good shop and once there, you can gain experience working with the engineers and admins as you manage projects and teams. Other than that, about your only shot is starting out as a box jockey (term not meant as an insult  ).
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I would recommend the CCNA to start. The A+ tends to shout CompUSA tech. A dregree is great but most companies are targeting specific certifications. The CCNA is only one exam and highly sought after. I've got my MCSE and over 9 nine years of experience and I was shot down on a 90k a year job just because I didnt have the CCNA, an entry level Cisco cert. If you're brand new to PC and server hardware then by all means pursue the A+ for the knowledge but if you already know how to deal with a hard drive or RAM then shoot for the CCNA then work on the MCSA/MCSE. |
I think thats a great idea. It's only gets harder to go back to school the longer you've been out. Certs are great with experience, but they're no substitution. Your BS and subsequently MBA would be much better assets. A+ is great if you're looking to make $10/hr. |
If you are going back to school for MBA, while your at it, get your CCNA and MCSE all at the same time. While your at it, get a job at the college in the IT department and get some experience. Then you will be good to go. |
Good advice right there. |
Hmm that sounds familiar. In an old IT job I had, the us department of state diplomatic security came to our office to interview me regarding a past employee who was going to get hired by them. He was our worst employee, hated end users and would just tell everyone to reboot and call him back if they had a problem. I have no idea if they hired him or not, but was surprised they even were considering it. BTW, it was odd, but my employer HR department would not allow me to speak to the guy from state department on company property and was told it was up to me, and had to go off company property to answer questions 
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This is pretty typical of many .gov jobs. For example, in my National Guard duty position we are pretty much required to have an IT security level (Level I, II, and III), Security+, and in many circumstances CISSP. This has come down for everyone involved in Information Assurance in the DoD. Most people have CCNA too because you attend this training for your MOS. In general, certifications can make of break you in many government jobs. For this job I don't get the certification because I want it. I get it because I have to but it is nice to have in case another job that requires it were to come up. On the civilian side it's difference (at least where I work). Now I can only speak for software development...there may be some differences on the networking side of the house. For employees you often need a BS to get past HR. All we care about on the software development side is great experience OR decent experience with an aptitude to learn. We don't care much for certifications because to be honest we know what many people do to get certified. For our contractors we only care about what they can do for us to get the job done. We don't look at education much for contractors...experience is key for those guys. |
Frankly, that's a terrible idea. *background* I have an undergrad degree in MIS, which in my school was based in the College of Business. I have a MS in Information Assurance. I've been working IT for about 8 years now, specializing in Security for 4. An MBA is a specialized and advanced degree targeted for middle to upper management of businesses...hence Masters of Business Administration. For entry level, it will close more doors than your are trying to open. Your education doesn't match your experience, and you'll be viewed by HR as being too expensive to employ. It also has little to nothing to do with IT. If you're trying to get into IT, CCNA is a good way. COMPTIA Certs (ie A+, Server+, Network+) aren't that great, with the possible exception of the Security. That one is a good practice for the CISSP, shows you have a baseline of knowledge, and can be used as an elective for the MCSE:Security cert. Any of the Microsoft certs leading to the MCSE are also good...FYI, passing even one of them gets you labelled a MCP, or Microsoft Certified Professional. That's a good tag to have. ETA: You aren't going to get into a management role right out of college, without any experience. You're expected to put in the time in the trenches in order to move up. Even with a project management style path, you'll still in all likelihood start out as a programmer/analyst hacking code for a while. ETA2: If you're looking to study for certs, the Sybex books are some of the better ones around for most programs. For the MCSE, its actually better than the Microsoft Press books. www.bookpool.com has some of the best prices I've come across for any form of technical book. |
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Seconded on CCNA to get more in-depth. A+ is a good start, but that exam is not all that hard. Nor does it really test much practical knowledge or troubleshooting skill. A lot of the things the test focuses on are things you can Google in ten seconds in the field. Being a good troubleshooter takes experience/talent. I've learned a lot more things in my Cisco courses than I have on A+. And I know plenty of highly competent/experienced techs who never bothered getting their A+ cert. |
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I received my A+ during my freshman year in HS, its actually better to have than most people on this forum are saying. With it alone I'm doing contract jobs for between $12.50-16/hour, right now though one of my bosses is asking me to take the 70-631(Sharepoint) by the 29th. Your MIS degree will probably help since it is IS orientated, the worst thing about this field is getting into a position due to lack of experience. Certifications will certainly set you apart from the rest but a lot of companies, if not most would rather have experience from the real world, which seems contradictory since you can't get a job w/o exp so how can you get a job? Net+ is a good one to have as well, but most help desk jobs you can get with just an A+. Microsoft Certifications are a great thing to get and I would say that they are probably some of the most sought after. Microsoft is going through an exam reform right now and reclassifying their system. I believe they're getting rid of the MCSE(Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) track and replacing it with the specializations of MCTS, but don't quote me on that. Good luck and if you have any questions PM me, I'll try to help you out as much as I can. |
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I'm a programmer and a sysadmin, with no college time and no certifications. I've been working in this field about ten years and I will reiterate what was already said: experience is king. Your resume is there to get you the interview, so don't feel bad embellishing or exaggerating on it -- absolutely everyone does in this field, especially if they don't have a lot of experience. Once you get the interview, then you stand or fall on your own merits and the resume means nothing. Getting your A+ is very easy, but I'm torn about having it on the resume or not. You don't want to give the impression that "A+" represents your entire skillset -- I wouldn't trust someone who's only qualification was A+ to hook up my VCR let alone work a helpdesk, if you get my meaning. What field do you want to go into within IT? Working a help desk won't give you much experience if you want to be a sysadmin (you'll never touch servers/networks, just workstations) or programmer (not much call to write software). Getting an (unpaid usually, I know, sucks) internship is a great way to go. You aren't expected to know how to do everything, and you're getting free real world training that can go on your resume -- very valuable. Every year of experience is worth 2-3 years of school training, from a hiring perspective and a skill perspective. |
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I have a BS, and I'm going back for an AAS. Nice thing is I only have to take one general ed. I've taken 2 of 4 CCNA courses my school offers (A's in both). I then get to take the actual CCNA cert test. +1 on getting the certs. as far as I can tell. BTW, as far as the CCNA, get ready for a lot of reading. Art in KY |
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Experience is key. I worked for a large retailer doing computer tech stuff, got some experience in networking and servers, etc... I got a IT Admin position with a software company, and the Director of Engineering (what they call the guy in charge of programmers, developers, IT, QA, etc..) said to me in the interview, "You've got he experience that we are looking for. Certifications and pieces of paper don't mean crap unless you have a logical troubleshooting mindset and can think outside the box." He's right, when I hired people in my previous job I'd take experience over certs all the time. I did hire people with A+ and other certs, even a guy with a MCSE... and ALL of them were horrible at troubleshooting things. They learned from a book that if you have Y Problem, Z is the fix. Nothing more. They'd try Z solution and get stuck and would give up. I even had the guy with the MCSE tell me, "It is unfixable man. The fix I learned didn't work. I suggest a reformat." Within a month I fired this guy for being worthless. -d |
Sorry it took so long to respond. Occasionally, we get some real winners come through training, but usually most are pretty squared away. Former employers can be sued if HR or another employee puts the bad mouth on someone and it can't be backed up. Therefore, they will usually just confirm periods of employment and salary history. If DS (discount security) came through interviewing people, it was probably for the security investigation. We all have to have a minimum of Top Secret for employment. |
Too bad it has to be within the last 5 years or I'd consider it. I got Net+ 6 years ago and A+ 8 years ago. |
| Yeah, it wouldnt be that bad if you work on Cisco stuff every day. I'm a server guy myself, been working on Windows and Unix boxes for about 9 years now. The problem is that a LOT of companies want the CCNA to show that you know networking on top of the Server knowledge, I guess they dont really realize the amount of IOS and Cisco specific detail that goes into the CCNA exams. |
Exactly why I picked up Net+. I've been ready to take CCNA a couple times now, but unless I'm actively looking to leave my job its just not practical. |
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Experience is far more important than certs, but I'm surprised you can't get a job strictly on your degree. I don't know the job market up there, but here (ETA: DALLAS) it should get you started. I have no degree and my only cert was A+ back in 1998, and I'm in a stable job making over 50K. I received a lot of responses from monster.com just on my experience alone. If I had your degree I could probably get a better salary for the same job. Don't get me wrong, certs have their place, especially with employers who aren't very familiar with your job. The only reason I don't pursue them at the moment is that I am in a stable 9-6 job that I like. If I ever have to look again I'll probably try to get some newer certifications. Have you considered moving? Maybe you'd have better luck in another city. Good luck in your search. |
Only some of them are two years. CCNA, CCDA, CCNP, CCDP, CCSP, CCVP, and CCIP certifications are valid for three years. All CCIE certifications and Specialist certifications are valid for two years. |
Thanks for clarification. See? I can't even remember how long it's good for, let alone remember everything needed to pass it every few years. 
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Yes I have considered moving. I have been applying all over the place. I figured I would start entry level like Help Desk or PC Technician or PC Support. What jobs do you think I can get otherwise? Programming Analyst? (I do not want to program, but if its what I need to do then so be it). |
Some years ago I worked under subcontract for Rockwell. They had a large IT dept, structured somewhat like this: During college, they would hire you to do desktop and low-end server support. Upon graduation they usually moved guys up the ladder to integration/scripting/image building/database stuff. If you did good in one of those areas you could stay in it and grow (and advance through attrition; they had some old guys). They contracted out the hardware and phone support, so those jobs were pretty low pay  Something like this would be good for you, and you could probably start a little above the students since you have your degree already. Did you do any part-time IT work at all during school? If you don't like coding, the what is your goal? If it's server/pc setup and support, then you might have to take a low paying job working for an independent consulting company doing field work for a few years before striking out on your own (you definitely want to make your initial mistakes when there's someone there to help out). Once you have contacts and experience, and a potential customer base, you can work for yourself and possibly make a decent living, depending on your abilities. I know guys who own Lexus's (Lexii?) and pay for ivy league colleges for their sons doing this, and I know guys with limited aptitude who eek out a meager living. It all depends on you. I personally prefer the regular schedule and job security of my employer, so there are also downsides to that career. If I were in your shoes, I'd pick a specialty field that I like, such as the CCNA/CCIE path that the other guys mentioned, or database support, and focus on that. What were your favorite areas in school? It's more important that you enjoy what you do rather than take the first low end job you can get. Sorry if I'm bouncing all over the map here. Just trying to cover as much as possible. |
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To be honest with you, my degree did not give me much hands on training. It was more business oriented theory? For instance, for my programming classes- basically work through a book that taught you how to program in that language. Dont like it Database: make a car rental database. Somewhat like it. network: not much in this area. A basic intro course on head knowledge. It fascinates me, but I have never done much with it outside of my own personal home network. Like it PC Technician: doing it right now. I work at the university campus and my time is running out (graduated and they only keep students on the payroll). Like it, interesting, different every day. Systems analyst: one class. Didnt seem practical to me. Wasnt all that interesting. Willing to try some real world stuff. SAP: got to move the mouse around on it and make a couple left clicks. Im willing to give it a try. |
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If you like the PC tech stuff, check out places like Geeksquad and FireDog. I was a manager for GS for a few months, managing a new market. Don't know what you were making at the college, but I knew quite a few GS guys who were making some nice coin. I'd try to do more the business stuff though, home computer calls are pretty much spyware and wireless network setups. Boring shit. -d |
| I put this in another similar thread.. I am the lead engineer with my company and have no certs but 14 years experiance. I also do all the technical hiring and we don't even look at A+ or N+ when we look through resumes. We look at the experiance. I have several friends in similar positons that do the same. Experiance is king. My advice is this take any position you can get in IT even if it means helpdesk. Hang around with the engineers, asks lots of questions and volunteer to stay late on your own time to help on projects or look over thier shoulders. |
I just want to say DITTO on this. If you're just starting out, and have limited experience then I will look at your certifications. Once you've been working in the field, the only thing a bunch of current certifications tell me is that you weren't very busy. For the last twelve years, the only administrators that I've seen with long lists of current certifications were the managers. Those working in the trenches never had the time. One of the first things I look for on the resume is if the new candidate is active on any open source projects or has written any how-tos or other documentation. Those will tell me far more about his/her style and technical abilities than any certification ever could. |