Posted: 10/4/2010 12:58:13 PM EDT
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jumped into DSLR a couple years ago with a Nikon. I was going to spring for the D200, but after fingering an SB800.....I opted for a D80 (since it supported the 800's functions) and a little faster lens. so now a couple years later I still feel like I'm not getting the potential out of it...(the SB800), that I should. Now I am going to accept the lion's share of the responsibility since I admit that time hasn't been at a premium for me lately. But now I've resolved to make a greater effort at unlocking it's potential.........sooooo, for those of you who have been using the speedlight for a while, any input on what was the most beneficial piece in getting the most out of it?? besides the mandatory hours and hours of trial and error. sorry, I guess i'm a wuss. thanks. |
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What do you want to get out of the SB800 & D80?
Reference places are the strobist.com, nikondigitutor...Nikon does not have the good stuff for free so you gotta buy the DVD. 7mm |
| ...you probably nailed another part of the problem. lack of a clear target. I get a little bogged down in the instruction manual that came with it. I did buy a Nikon DVD, not the one you recommended. the one I bought pretty much turned out to be a sales pitch. I shot film for a lot of years and I have really enjoyed the DSLR and have come to feel comfortable in most shooting environments. Not so with the speedlight. I mean I put it on the camera and it works but I just haven't felt like I am getting out of it what it was designed for. I am going to try the websites you mentioned. I frequent Nikonians, but haven't been on those two. My target is to get the most out of it's potential when I'm shooting portraits or shows and to get comfortable shooting through the various lighting encountered. Thanks for your recommendations. |
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Understanding the basics of flash photography is the first step. You may be familiar with them but in case you aren't, Moose Peterson explains this about as well as anyone. It is a good lesson on the history of flash basics, up through TTL. With digital photography, Nikon has long since moved on to iTTL, but this is still a good article to start with. Read up through the "conclusion" section, and don't worry about the specifics of how to use the older flash units (this article is somewhat dated, but the basics are the same).
As for techniques, Neil Van Neikerk is a great resource, on his web site Planet Neil. When it comes to flash photography, the things I think help people the most, are learning the basics, learning to shoot with the camera in the manual mode, and learning how to bounce the flash. Also don't expect the flash to give you a perfect exposure, every time, because it won't. You must learn to use the flash compensation feature on the SB-800. Practice, practice, practice. Put the flash on your camera, put the camera in the manual mode, and start walking around your house taking pictures. I'm a Nikon guy, and although I really don't do that much flash photography, I'll throw out what works for me. When the flash is the primary (key) light source, put the SB-800 in the TTL mode. When the flash is used as a secondary (fill) light source put the SB-800 in the TTLBL mode. Play with the flash compensation (on the flash...not the camera), and try bouncing the flash off of the walls, ceiling, etc. It really doesn't take too long, before you start to get a feel for it. Good luck, and have fun with it! |
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One of the best online references for all things flash on camera and especially off is The Strobist.... http://strobist.blogspot.com/ |
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Quoted: All good recommendations! I have seen some of Moose Peterson's work but hadn't visited his sight. Looks like I'll be spending a little time there. Interesting that the shot of the flour mill on the strobist is about fifteen minutes down the road from the house. Be sure to explore The Strobist a good bit. They have nice series of tutorials that go from basic to more advanced and build on one another. |
| Does the d80 support CLS? If it does, start experimenting with the flash off camera. Start deliberately TRYING to use the flash. Make a goal to at least try a shot using each feature of the flash. Sometimes you never know what feature will tweak your creative side without giving it a shot. The strobist website is excellent also. |
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Does the d80 support CLS? If it does, start experimenting with the flash off camera. Start deliberately TRYING to use the flash. Make a goal to at least try a shot using each feature of the flash. Sometimes you never know what feature will tweak your creative side without giving it a shot. The strobist website is excellent also. Not being a Nikon geek, is CLS remote / commander mode for Nikon? Not sure what CLS stands for but the D80 does support the 'Commander mode' for wireless remote flash operation. Or in another way you can pop up your on camera flash & it will wirelessly communicate w/ another Nikon speedlite (SB600, 800 or 900) while in the TTL mode. There are some limitations (ambient brightness & range) but it works as long as the camera & speedlite are set correctly. The Strobist & the DVD I mentioned earlier get in to great detail about these features. 7mm |
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CLS is a bunch of built-in pre-programmed functions on the Nikon cameras. It includes portraiture, landscape, child, sports, close up, and night portraiture.
You pretty much answered the question, but he was probably asking if the D80 can act as the commander with its built in flash. CLS stands for Creative Lighting System. |
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I have a Nikon D40X, and on page 118, they have an error in their user manual, which confused the heck out of me. What the manual was saying is exactly reversed of what the manual says.What do you want to get out of the SB800 & D80? Reference places are the strobist.com, nikondigitutor...Nikon does not have the good stuff for free so you gotta buy the DVD. 7mm  So I hope their DVD doesn't have that many errors.
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Quoted:
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I have a Nikon D40X, and on page 118, they have an error in their user manual, which confused the heck out of me. What the manual was saying is exactly reversed of what the manual says.What do you want to get out of the SB800 & D80? Reference places are the strobist.com, nikondigitutor...Nikon does not have the good stuff for free so you gotta buy the DVD. 7mm So I hope their DVD doesn't have that many errors.Dunno about the errors in the manuals & I'm too cheap to buy the DVD...also I'm a Canon user. 
7mm |
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Quoted:
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CLS is a bunch of built-in pre-programmed functions on the Nikon cameras. It includes portraiture, landscape, child, sports, close up, and night portraiture.You pretty much answered the question, but he was probably asking if the D80 can act as the commander with its built in flash. CLS stands for Creative Lighting System. Whoa, big negative there. The CLS refers to the wireless control system of the Nikon flash units. The pre-programed functions of your D40X are just that, pre-programmed, auto settings for various situations and are not part of the CLS. Creative Lighting System. |
| sorry ...i was out shooting.....pics that is. The D80 does support the iTTl and their "cls" or creative lighting system. Of course the D80 is obsolete now, replaced by the D90. And the D80 does support the commander mode where you can control multiple remote flash. I was told at time I purchased the camera that the D40 did not support many of the functions of the SB800, but what it does support I am not sure of. A friend of mine and I were shooting a football game last weekend and talking about the Nikon system, he has an 800 too. He felt the same way I do even after having his for a couple of years now.....although he actually has three. We don't think there is any way to short cut flash photography proficiency.....too many situations to remember. But it will be a lot of fun learning......I hope. But I will still leave my original question out there. What has helped those of you who are very comfortable with modern flash photography the most. So far the suggestions.....websites........... have been very informative. Thanks again!! |
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Quoted:
sorry ...i was out shooting.....pics that is. The D80 does support the iTTl and their "cls" or creative lighting system. Of course the D80 is obsolete now, replaced by the D90. And the D80 does support the commander mode where you can control multiple remote flash. I was told at time I purchased the camera that the D40 did not support many of the functions of the SB800, but what it does support I am not sure of. A friend of mine and I were shooting a football game last weekend and talking about the Nikon system, he has an 800 too. He felt the same way I do even after having his for a couple of years now.....although he actually has three. We don't think there is any way to short cut flash photography proficiency.....too many situations to remember. But it will be a lot of fun learning......I hope. But I will still leave my original question out there. What has helped those of you who are very comfortable with modern flash photography the most. So far the suggestions.....websites........... have been very informative. Thanks again!! Experience. Years ago I used to look at the strobe section of the store & glaze over. My first 'lighting' seminar was from Dean Collins . I learned a lot from that seminar. What I learned the most was terms of lighting...diffused highlight, specular highlight, rim light,key light. My thought is once you know the 'look' you want then you need to know what it takes to get that 'look'. After that class I was more critical of how light landed on the subject. I learned that shadows are good in the right places. I learned that catch-lights could be tailored to the subject...for a shot of a bicyclist having a spoked wheel in front of the soft-box made for a cool catch-light in the helmet & sunglasses. The next time you look at a gun rag check out Ichiro Nagto's images. You'll notice how he uses different color lights on one shot to highlight the top edge of a slide on a 1911 in blue & for the grip he uses a red light to catch the checkering. In his knife shots he'll use a bold color to catch the sharpened edge of the blade & another color for the grip. Also check out Oleg's shots-lots of soft lighting...Stickman uses both hard & soft lighting for his images. Another source I learned from is Lowel Lighting. Start at the definition of 'Aims of Lighting'––-To enhance mood, atmosphere, and drama; to illuminate the story; to separate planes; to suggest depth; to direct attention; to reveal character; to convey time of day; to enrich and, occasionally, bedazzle. Minimum aim: to stimulate microchips and silver halides. They are a 'hot' light source but there is a lot of cross over of terms & techniques. If you want hands on look for Professional Photographers Association events near you. They will have a 'Super Monday', 1 day seminar or a state or regional convention near you. Also look at the Wedding & Portrait Photographers Inc. This group has grown leaps & bounds over the years. As for Seminar Tours google up the following Ed Pierce, Clay Blackmore, David Ziser, Eddie Tapp, Tony Corbell, Will Crocket, Moose Peterson, Nature Photographers Association, Aviation Photography...in other words find a subject+photography, style or photographer's name and see if there is a traveling seminar. Also check on a local pro store to see if they are sponsoring a speaker some where. But if you really want to get overwelmed or inspired go to the Photo East Show. Probably have everything you want & more there. Okay time to get to work. 7mm |
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You pretty much answered the question, but he was probably asking if the D80 can act as the commander with its built in flash. CLS stands for Creative Lighting System. Sorry if I was unclear but yes I was really asking if his D80 would support the creative lighting system as a 'commander'. I shoot a d300 and just haven't studied the d80 capabilities. Sorry all. If the op gets a chance I'd encourage him to look at pictures he likes and try to reproduce them. The advice to study Ichero Nagatas images is good but try not to be discouraged if his first million trys do t look as good :). I'm in awe of his talent, he really has mastered product lighting. |
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checking in.....again. I've been reading through some more of Moose Peterson's work. Pretty informative. Of course ....at this point, everything is pretty informative. Thanks 7mm... glanced over some of your suggestions and I'm looking forward to giving them the attention they deserve. I'd love to go to New York but I don't know if it's in the cards for me right now. I'm going to try not to get discouraged there hsvhobbit. The D80 has a lot of potential with the SB800....not as much as the D300, but it's still ahead of my abilities. Looking forward to the day I get a 300......but I'm also kind of a glass addict, so I don't know how soon that will be.
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| now I know not to expect much out of the built in flash, even in the ttl mode.....but I still think it's interesting how much more clarity there is and how the SB800 pulled out the contents of the toy tank so much better. It was also interesting how much the bounce flash changed the tone of the shot. I've got a lot to learn. |
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Not trying to be rude, but I think you need to review the basics of exposure. All of your pictures are underexposed. The camera meter was fooled by all the white. You need to manually compensate for this.
Bouncing the flash diffuses the light and results in a softer light because it essentially makes the light source "bigger". A direct flash results in a more contrasty image, but there is a big difference between using direct flash on small objects vs. people. Your direct flash image looks pretty good because the size of the flash is relatively large compared to your subject. At this distance, the external flash unit is fairly "off camera" compared to the built in flash. Also, your "no flash" and "built-in flash" pictures are the same. Another point... If you are comparing saturation and contrast, you need to shoot each picture at the same ISO. Higher ISO reduces contrast and saturation. |
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Quoted: not rude at all. while i might be off track a little i was looking for a baseline on flash settings and effects with the gear i am using. the D80 has some preset modes and i had reset the default values of the SB800. unless i missed something the ISO was set the same on all shots. I have been playing around with the exposure settings on the the camera and unfortunately I had not checked where I had it set.Not trying to be rude, but I think you need to review the basics of exposure. All of your pictures are underexposed. The camera meter was fooled by all the white. You need to manually compensate for this. Bouncing the flash diffuses the light and results in a softer light because it essentially makes the light source "bigger". A direct flash results in a more contrasty image, but there is a big difference between using direct flash on small objects vs. people. Your direct flash image looks pretty good because the size of the flash is relatively large compared to your subject. At this distance, the external flash unit is fairly "off camera" compared to the built in flash. Also, your "no flash" and "built-in flash" pictures are the same. Another point... If you are comparing saturation and contrast, you need to shoot each picture at the same ISO. Higher ISO reduces contrast and saturation. sorry if the no flash and built in flash shots were the same. apparently mac and photobucket don't play well together and when I went out and used my old laptop I must have gotten them mixed up. sorry. like I said at the start of the thread, the 800 works wonderfully when i let it do the math with my D80. i want to do a little more. figured if i posted some stuff i might get a little feedback......and i did. thanks.
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