Posted: 12/19/2004 10:57:06 AM EDT
|
I have a small selectorized weight stack home gym that I plan to use for general fitness weight training. When it comes to lat pull-downs it seems that 1/2 of the sources I've read suggest behind the head and the rest suggest pulling the bar down to the chest. Is one really preferable over the other? |
| I always do pull downs to the chest. Behind the neck is a very awkward motion. I believe if I was to ever use this motion in real life, like lifting myself over a wall or climbing onto something, the motion of "to the chest" would be more likely used. You can do them behind the neck to switch up your workout sometimes, but if you are excersizing to stay in shape for real life use, pull downs to the chest is better. |
|
A common exercise, which you may see in the gym, is called the lat pull down. This exercise works the latissimius dorsi, which is a muscle in the outer aspect of the chest wall. A common technique error is to grip the bar with a wide grip and bring the bar down behind the neck. This places a lot of stress on the neck and shoulder and can lead to injury. A much safer technique is to grip the bar with a narrower grip, and bring the bar to the front of the chest while keeping the back straight. This is from "Weight training: Are you using good technique?". There are short videos there of this and other exercises. |
Damn. I have been doing it this way since I was 16. |
You'll be fine. There's plenty of people doing them behind the neck with no problems from it. It's just kind of a "unuseful" motion if you want real use out of a pulling down motion. |
|
I'd tell you to get the book from health for life on bodybuilding, but there site is down right now. I'll try to pull out what I can from memory.. Basically, the chest pull downs with a 'v' gripped handle are your best bet, but that's just part of the equation. Behind the back pull downs are good as well, but if you want just one exercise for it, the close grip pull downs are it. But there's a way to do it to get the most out of the exercise. The key to it lies in that the lats are a fan shaped muscle, and you can't work them all the same by staying in one position. A static pulldown with your back at constant angle will only work a section of the lats. What you need to do is start with your hands on the 'V' handle up at the top, back at about vertical, and then pull down while simultaneously lowering your back to around 45degrees or so. That will involve a larger portion of the lats than just doing it in one position. The book has a fully detailed explanation of all exercises in their optimized form to reduce wasted effort and maximize results from a workout. Once I see the site is back up I'll post a link to the book. |
Yea, just adding 10 lb. really makes a difference. I have a hard time with the weight swinging around and throwing off my balance. |
I think it has a lot to do with the range of motion. Usually when doing lat pulldowns your lower body is held stationary while you do the exercise but when doing chins or pull-ups your body is free to move naturaly and this gives you a better contraction and stretch as you pump out the reps. Of course if you don't watch your form you could end up swinging and jerking around... |
Yeah but that extra weight wrapped around your waist is great for stretching our 30 something year old lower backs! Sometimes it feels pretty good just hanging there!  Oh, to be 18 again, youth is so wasted on the young...
|
Oddly enough, I can do more pull-ups now than I could at 18. |
Yea, me too. I did a 22,20,18 monday at lunch. I had that popeye forearm feeling. I picked up a bottle to get a drink, and had a pretty good case of the shakes. |
|
I am working on my chin ups/pull ups but, damn, they are hard. I am going to start doing them more often. In fact, I am considering moving to an all body-weight routine, where I just do pushups, pullups, chinups, situps/crunches and running, of course. I think that might lead to better overall fitness and save some of the wear and tear from doing free weights too much. What do you guys think? I can pump out lots of pushups and situps/crunches, and have a lot of endurance for running, it is the pullups/chinups that are killing me. |
What does your chin/pullup routine look like? Do you do any type of forearm/grip work? Do you do any type of lifting (pushing) type exercises to work the opposing muscles? Yea, they are tough. They are one of the few exercises that really seperate the men from the boys. |
| Pull ups are not better or worse, they are simply different. I do both: I start with pull ups, then later in my back workout I do both behind-the-neck and in-front lat pulldowns. I wouldn't drop any of them as they are working the muscles in slightly different ways. |
| ... As stated here, always mix up the routine & grips. I've found that behind the neck does more for my shoulders and upper back than pure Latissimus Dorsi. If I'm working just lats, I like mixing up pull-downs to the chest with a good, heavy rowing exercise. Makes for a tremendous pump. |
|
Im a youngin, senior in HS. I have a pretty effective pullup workout, first I do about 15 knckles away from body pullups all the way up and down, then 15 with knuckles towards your body and your legs in an L position, then about 5 or 6 wide grip with knuckles towards you and you pullup BEHIND your neck. One real effective lat workout, you rest your head on a wall while bending over, and put the bar under you and lift. I dont know if the explanation was good enough, not too sure on what it is called. |
| Yes, one is better than the other. Take it from me, a former bodybuilder. The tough part to this is, you have to be the one to decide which is better for YOU. Some people's muslces are attached to the bones differently than other people's, and some people's skeletal structure will be different than another person's. So just try both, and see which one "feels" better. I personally do lat pulls in front of the head, and I've found that that's how the majority of the people do it as well, notice I said "majority", not all. |
| I used to start my back/bis day with 50 wide grip pull ups and then 50 close grip pull ups. I'd just do them until I hit 50 each. Usually starting with about 15 and then they would get less reps with each set(15, 13, 10...). The in front and behind the head can also be done with pull ups. Lat pull downs are not always easier than pull ups. You can get a whole lot of weight on a well equiped pull down cable machine. Way more than I can get out of 45 lbs. plates between my legs on a chain belt deal. Form is not always everything as there is a certain technique called "cheating" where one would swing their body to cheat the weight into going where it's suppost to go. That way you use a weight that is too much for you to lift with good form but with the swinging of the body, you use all of the strength of the muscle being worked to get that too heavy weight up. Their are many different techniques to shock the muscles to grow. I think people are usually more limited in how creative they can make their workouts. |
+1!!! I personally get a much better lat workout with pull-ups than with pulldowns. If I do lat pulldowns I'll do them at the end of my workout after my lats are already pre-exhausted. |
|
this may sound silly but it also has *seemed* to increase my gains... after each set of pull ups I'll squeeze / contract my lats as hard as I can for about 20-30 seconds, then stretch. seems to help me focus on training the muscles, rather than just moving the weight? |
everyone is different so i'll add what i do and why i quoted is because you are on the right track. if doing pullups only do a pullup to the point where the upper arm is parallel to the floor,once past that point the bicep starts to take over and you don't gain much by doing the full rep. pull up and squeeze. weight your pullups to the point you cannot go past parallel with your upper arm(keep the bicep out of it). when doing cable pull downs,add enough weight to where you can effectivly pull down maybe 4-5 inches,squeeze and repeat. do this partial rep training and leave bicep training for the same day you do triceps(not chest). if you want big gains in your lats train only your lats(partial rep) and not lats and biceps(full rep),once again i stress that heavy weight is the key. also for you fella's that do calfs with leg workouts,don't,the calves and forearms work as secondary hearts in the way they pump blood out of the lower extremities.oh well just my two cents |
Wait, Im confuzzled, what should I do? Its a bar with about 250lbs on it, I never have strain on my neck, mostly just lower back but it goes away quick. |
My brother has a special belt that he can hang dumb bells off of. He straps on 2 20lb'ers and does his dips etc. with. S.O. |
| Yea, I do dips with weights attached. I have problems doing pull ups/chins with weights attached. When I hang off the bar, my feet come forward and the chain hits me in the nuts. Then with the up and down motion, and the chain starts swinging around and makes it somewhat uncomfortable. I have to find a better way. |
ALICE pack with weights in it. |
Thanks, I'll give it a try. |
|
like the other guy said, its all about form. As far as the lat pull downs, I've always receive more gain out of the "behind your head" approach. But from my experiences I had more aching and should pain from doing it as well. As stated prior, its not a natural motion and with that said, you should never do anything that doesn't feel right. Some other lifts that I like as well for the same area is seated rows and close gripped lat pulldown. |