[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Running and weight training? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/13/2017 2:08:12 PM EDT
| I've been doing SL 5x5 for a couple months, had to take a month off for a couple reasons. I'm getting back in to it. At the same time I'm trying to be a better/faster runner. I've recently started doing some OCRs with my wife and some friends, and I've been signing up for other road races as well. How are you all incorporating weight training with running? I don't want to be too sore from one that the other is neglected. I'm not trying to be a body builder, just looking for total body strength. I enjoy the strongman style lifts as they are for practical strength. I think I may download a Couch to 10K style app for the running. I am currently about 69 inches and I fluctuate anywhere from 176 to 179 pounds. I don't know what my BMI is. |
|
Because the army still tests me to run 2 miles I have incorporated running with my lifting program. Though, I do just enough to maintain. So about 3 - 4 miles a week a mix of 2 mile runs and speed 1 mile runs after lifting about 2-3 days a week.
I'm still able to lift heavy and intense and making steady gains. Though, your nutrition plan will be key to any goals you have. |
|
The sucky part about running is that it's time consuming and it burns calories you could be using to build muscle, it's also high impact so it can bang up your knees, shins and ankles.
If you want to do it though then go for it, personally I would work on speed over distance. Anywhere from 100 yards to 1 mile for time using sprint intervals, at least sprinting is an explosive movement. |
|
Quoted:
Because the army still tests me to run 2 miles I have incorporated running with my lifting program. Though, I do just enough to maintain. So about 3 - 4 miles a week a mix of 2 mile runs and speed 1 mile runs after lifting about 2-3 days a week. I'm still able to lift heavy and intense and making steady gains. Though, your nutrition plan will be key to any goals you have. |
|
We are pretty close to the same size 5'8" @ 190 and although I don't know your composition, here is what I do: 3 days a week of SS style workouts and 3 days a week of 3-4 mile runs. I ran a 23 min 5k two weeks ago and pulled 435 (lifetime PR) Saturday. Neither of those two is that all impressive, but I'm faster and stronger than I was a year ago.
I could have made progress faster in running or strength by specificity, but I chose both so progress in each has been a little stunted. You mentioned OCR events. Do you do the shorter 5k style events or the longer Spartan Beasts and Full Tough Mudders? I can make it through a 4-6 mile OCR on 9 miles a week of running, but for 13+ miles I have to have more weekly mileage to survive. |
|
organize your training so that your week looks like:
<Intensity---------------Volume> Start of the week End of the week Intensity will be heavy lifting, and hard running. Volume is longer, easy paced running and hypertrophy type lifting. Lift legs and run on the same day, preferably running after lifting. I also find that's it's easier for my body to recover from running when I split it up over more days. I feel better running 30 minutes 6 days a week than 60 minutes 3 days a week. How experienced at running are you? I'd first recommend building your base with easy running. Start with like 30:00 easy 2-3 a week. Then gradually add another 30 minute run every 2-3 weeks, depending on how you're feeling until you get up to 5-6 days of running comfortably. Then you can start training more speed stuff. A week would end up looking like: 1- Squat- High intensity, low volume / fastest running 2- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- High intensity, low volume/ easy run 3- Deadlift- medium intensity, medium volume / fast run (the same or less intensity as day 1, depending on your program) 4- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- medium intensity, medium volume/ off or easy run 5- Squat low intensity, high volume / long easy run 30-50 minutes 6- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- low intensity, high volume/ off or easy run Check out Jack Daniels for how to periodize your running. It basically rotates through 4 phases; base build, repetitions, intervals, threshold Deloading every 4 weeks would be a good idea. Just reduce the volume and intensity of everything. Eat a lot of food |
|
Quoted:
We are pretty close to the same size 5'8" @ 190 and although I don't know your composition, here is what I do: 3 days a week of SS style workouts and 3 days a week of 3-4 mile runs. I ran a 23 min 5k two weeks ago and pulled 435 (lifetime PR) Saturday. Neither of those two is that all impressive, but I'm faster and stronger than I was a year ago. I could have made progress faster in running or strength by specificity, but I chose both so progress in each has been a little stunted. You mentioned OCR events. Do you do the shorter 5k style events or the longer Spartan Beasts and Full Tough Mudders? I can make it through a 4-6 mile OCR on 9 miles a week of running, but for 13+ miles I have to have more weekly mileage to survive. |
|
Quoted:
organize your training so that your week looks like: <Intensity---------------Volume> Start of the week End of the week Intensity will be heavy lifting, and hard running. Volume is longer, easy paced running and hypertrophy type lifting. Lift legs and run on the same day, preferably running after lifting. I also find that's it's easier for my body to recover from running when I split it up over more days. I feel better running 30 minutes 6 days a week than 60 minutes 3 days a week. How experienced at running are you? I'd first recommend building your base with easy running. Start with like 30:00 easy 2-3 a week. Then gradually add another 30 minute run every 2-3 weeks, depending on how you're feeling until you get up to 5-6 days of running comfortably. Then you can start training more speed stuff. A week would end up looking like: 1- Squat- High intensity, low volume / fastest running 2- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- High intensity, low volume/ easy run 3- Deadlift- medium intensity, medium volume / fast run (the same or less intensity as day 1, depending on your program) 4- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- medium intensity, medium volume/ off or easy run 5- Squat low intensity, high volume / long easy run 30-50 minutes 6- Bench + row or OHP + pull-ups- low intensity, high volume/ off or easy run Check out Jack Daniels for how to periodize your running. It basically rotates through 4 phases; base build, repetitions, intervals, threshold Deloading every 4 weeks would be a good idea. Just reduce the volume and intensity of everything. Eat a lot of food The schedule you posted is interesting and worth seriously looking in to, so thanks for that. |
|
Quoted:
I'm also in the Army and need to maintain a good 2 mile time. Actually, I'd like to improve my 2 mile time while still improving total body fitness and strength. |
|
If you can afford it, I recommend a well balanced CrossFit program, biasing more towards mainsite/OG programming, then doing 5/3/1 on the side. That will get you ready for most OCR's and any road race under a half. If it is a strength biased program, you will need to drop the 5/3/1 and add in additional running and cardio.
BTW most OCR's (especially Spartan Sprints and Supers) are essentially 400-800m runs broken up by obstacles. CrossFit best mimics this with their triplets/couplets with running in them. |
|
Quoted:
If you can afford it, I recommend a well balanced CrossFit program, biasing more towards mainsite/OG programming, then doing 5/3/1 on the side. That will get you ready for most OCR's and any road race under a half. If it is a strength biased program, you will need to drop the 5/3/1 and add in additional running and cardio. BTW most OCR's (especially Spartan Sprints and Supers) are essentially 400-800m runs broken up by obstacles. CrossFit best mimics this with their triplets/couplets with running in them. If OP's goal is just to finish and time/performance are not that important, then I agree. CF's conditioning should be enough to improve the 2 mile PT test. |
|
I did a Spartan Super (somewhere between 8 and 11 miles, I forget) last summer and was running like 15-20 miles a week leading up to it to prepare. Longest runs ended up being around 9 miles I think. I did something like 4-6mi monday, a 3mi on weds, 3mi (or sprints) thurs, and 7-9mi on saturday.
I had to reduce my intensity and frequency of squatting and deadlifting to allow my legs to recover enough to run like that. I think I got down to doing like 3x10 at 1x BW every 5 days for squats, and DL was low volume once a week, with something like a triple at 2x BW being my max set. Running ability/endurance is the most important factor in OCRs, followed by upper body/back strength and grip strength (the muscles you use for stuff like monkey bars, rope climbs, pulling stuff with ropes, pullups, carrying buckets, etc...). My race was in early August, and afterwards I immediately switched to SL5x5 and stopped running completely. The next time I ran was for a Stadium Series Spartan Spring at Fenway (so, a lot of stair climbing), which was about 3mi, and it was super easy. ETA here, found my thread about it from last year: link |
| I forgot about my thread lol. Still watching it. I restarted the SL5x5 as I took several weeks off. I'm currently trying to run more as well. The running is the hardest part to get motivated about. I've got a 5k tomorrow but I pulled a muscle in my back yesterday. This one definitely won't be for a record time... |
|
Quoted:
Long distance running and strength training don't really go together well. I wouldn't do anything over a 5k. Sprints are your friend. Quoted:
Long distance running and strength training don't really go together well. I wouldn't do anything over a 5k. Sprints are your friend. https://www.completehumanperformance.com/ https://www.completehumanperformance.com/coach-alex-viada/ Our specialty is creating all-around athletes. Our highly sports-specific methods give our athletes the flexibility to combine multiple different sports and events. Regardless of your goal, every athlete could stand to be stronger, faster, more durable and more resistant to fatigue. If you’re a strength athlete looking to run a marathon without losing muscle size and power, we can help you do that. If you’re a police officer looking to develop speed, endurance, and strength at the same time, we’ll get you there. We have put together a coaching team that can offer coaching in any sport you can dream up. |
|
Quoted:
These guys would say you are wrong... https://www.completehumanperformance.com/ https://www.completehumanperformance.com/coach-alex-viada/ |
|
I do fire and police/swat, so take from this what you will...
i personally hate running, its boring to me, but its a necessity. I work a 24/48 rotation right now, so on my work day I do a mix of weights ie bench, squat, shrugs, power clean and practical exercises ie drags, carry's, pushups, pull ups...it ends up being a heavy day day 2 i come home at 7am, run about 1-2 miles at about 8 minute pace, kettle bells, push-ups, several types of "sit-ups", and continued cardio...jump rope, jumping jacks, box jumps, burpees, etc... day 3 is a 5-10 mile bike ride on a mountain bike, some lightweight high rep presses, squats, bag work, and a "sprint" mile one day a week i take off to kinda just cool down, eating right is the other major player....none of the workout matters if your going out smashing crap food, especially if your older i try to keep it all balanced, low impact, i'd had several surgeries due to work but i keep in pretty good shape....BP 107/60, HR 50bpm, 190#s at 6ft ive done the MBA combat course, several fire fighter fitness challenges, and swat courses...do pretty good for a beat up dude in my mid-30s |
|
Since running is secondary, at best, to my goals, I cover 1 mile at the end of each lifting session which is 5/3/1 methodology. I use Jim's running with the devil template. It's just a mile broken up into 100, 200, or 400 meter segments. It really, REALLY sucked at first but I got used to it. It doesn't matter if it was an upper body lift or a lower body lift, I cover the mile. I do band pull a parts between the segments, too.
I do keep a log of the running and try to go a little faster each time. I'm not getting weaker either. |
|
Quoted:
These guys would say you are wrong... https://www.completehumanperformance.com/ https://www.completehumanperformance.com/coach-alex-viada/ In 6 months I didn't put on a single pound of mass, I barely made any strength gains, and I overall just stalled out. I could run a lot better, but my body wasn't changing in any perceptible (beneficial) way. This was running 5k or 10k almost every morning, before my lifts. Fast forward 6 more months, and I only run once/week. Gains are coming in on track and I still feel like my cardio levels are where they should be. Take that for what it's worth... |
|
I am probably doing this totally wrong, but I doing it, so there's that.
I run 16 miles a week on average, three or four 5 mile runs a week and lift 5/3/1 on Mon/Wed/Fri. I have two competing goals for this year, run/walk 1000 miles, I am on pace for 1200 miles and have a combined 4 lift personal record of 1200 lbs. I am behind on that goal for all the reasons everyone else stated about running and powerlifting not going together. What do I care though, I am 43 and in the best shape of my life. |
|
I've incorporated running with lifting with good results in two ways.
Running after lifting while doing 5/3/1 (Squat, accessories, conditioning; Bench, accessory work, 2 miles; deadlift, accessory work, conditioning; OHP, accessory work, 2 miles). Hypertrophy program with running on separate days. I think for most people that aren't running lots of miles (like someone training for a half marathon), you can incorporate both training goals if you plan it well. The key is having clearly defined goals. |
|
Quoted:
I am probably doing this totally wrong, but I doing it, so there's that. I run 16 miles a week on average, three or four 5 mile runs a week and lift 5/3/1 on Mon/Wed/Fri. I have two competing goals for this year, run/walk 1000 miles, I am on pace for 1200 miles and have a combined 4 lift personal record of 1200 lbs. I am behind on that goal for all the reasons everyone else stated about running and powerlifting not going together. What do I care though, I am 43 and in the best shape of my life. Impressive. |
|
I'd do SL & throw in a couple body weight exercises afterwards,MWF.
Stew Smiths running plan. Look around his site if you don't know his credentials ETA run Tuesday Thursday, let your body tell you whether you should run Saturday or not |
|
I was running 20-25mpw. Realized I need to lift to lose weight/avoid injury.
Now, I'll do 30 min of cardio (elliptical or run) after lifting 3 days a week. I'll do a 4-5 mi run one or two days a week and rest one or two (sometimes, my schedule won't let me work out). I'm 58 and will never be a "lifter" but I want to be solid and keep losing pounds of fat. But, I love trail running and will keep that as my focus as long as I'm not shitting into a bed pan! 
I started at 210 and am now at 195 thanks to Keto. My goal is 170 but don't know if adding some muscle will keep me above that. Again, I'm 58 so all you bucks in your 30's are looking at very different outcomes than I am. TC |
|
Quoted:
I was running 20-25mpw. Realized I need to lift to lose weight/avoid injury. Now, I'll do 30 min of cardio (elliptical or run) after lifting 3 days a week. I'll do a 4-5 mi run one or two days a week and rest one or two (sometimes, my schedule won't let me work out). I'm 58 and will never be a "lifter" but I want to be solid and keep losing pounds of fat. But, I love trail running and will keep that as my focus as long as I'm not shitting into a bed pan!
I started at 210 and am now at 195 thanks to Keto. My goal is 170 but don't know if adding some muscle will keep me above that. Again, I'm 58 so all you bucks in your 30's are looking at very different outcomes than I am. TC |
|
Quoted:
I would never want to run 20 miles a week. Running is so boring. Quoted:
Quoted:
Bunch of slackers in here. Awww running is hard wahhh Even when I was repping 495 DLs, 405 Ss, and 315 Bs for 2-6 reps I was still running 20 miles per week. Sprinting is fine, but going down the road for miles at a steady pace for too many days in a row gets all kinds of things hurting. |
|
Quoted:
I would never want to run 20 miles a week. Running is so boring. Quoted:
Quoted:
Bunch of slackers in here. Awww running is hard wahhh Even when I was repping 495 DLs, 405 Ss, and 315 Bs for 2-6 reps I was still running 20 miles per week. I even find running on the road like meditation. |
|
Quoted:
Bunch of slackers in here. Awww running is hard wahhh Even when I was repping 495 DLs, 405 Ss, and 315 Bs for 2-6 reps I was still running 20 miles per week. |
|
Quoted:
I would never want to run 20 miles a week. Running is so boring. As far as getting beat up, I have been wearing Hoka One One's and they are great shoes. |
|
Quoted:
I will say that a lot of posts in this thread lead me to believe I'm overthinking my routine. What was your schedule like when you were putting up those numbers? Quoted:
Quoted:
Bunch of slackers in here. Awww running is hard wahhh Even when I was repping 495 DLs, 405 Ss, and 315 Bs for 2-6 reps I was still running 20 miles per week. |
|
Quoted:
Recent studies, in the last 10 years or so, have proven that you're working against yourself if you're doing that. *not an expert in anything Quoted:
Quoted:
After manual labor all day I'd lift 4-5 days a week and run 2-3 *not an expert in anything |
|
Quoted:
running is utterly miserable, time slows down when I'm doing it and it becomes an eternity of pain |
|
Quoted:
Same here. That's why I went with HIIT over CT. HIIT > CT in basically every way, except for training for CT sporting events. Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, my goals are to be strong, fast, and able to fight longer than the other guy HIIT > CT in basically every way, except for training for CT sporting events. It is needed to be a well rounded athlete |
|
Quoted:
Makes sense.  Quoted:
Quoted:
Hit is great but endurance training is just what it is. If my goal is a 500lbs squat or gaining weight then long distance running isn't a great way to do that. It is needed to be a well rounded athlete |
|
Quoted:
Which part, exactly? I lift 5-6 days per week and run once a week. Making gains errday. Quoted:
Quoted:
Recent studies, in the last 10 years or so, have proven that you're working against yourself if you're doing that. *not an expert in anything Making gains errday. |