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Posted: 11/8/2002 5:53:02 AM EDT
Simple scenario: Guy 5 feet away from you pulls out a handgun. Public school didn't give me the education I needed, so I hope you guys can give pointers to us beginners.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 8:27:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 9:07:38 AM EDT
1.Very carefully raise your hands. 2. Make sure there is a look of fear on your face, bad guys prefer that. 3. Get as close to the weapon as you can. 4. Using that dojo move, smack the weapon away from the center of your body in a lightening fast move. 5. Scream "Oh shit!" and clutch the area that has just been shot while you fall down. 6. Scream "Ahhh! Oh shit!" as the scumbag pumps another round into you for fun and because you were such an idiot. Repeat as necessary. 7. Wish that you still had your cell phone and your wallet. 8. Pass out due to pain, blood loss, and shock. 9. Awake to the kindly face of your Grandfather standing on a pleasant field of green. Be pleasantly surpised to see the dog you put to sleep when you were a boy jumping with joy to see you. Does that help? Maybe you should get a CCW and a nice IIA vest from Second Chance. Screw that hand to hand crap. That is for tough guys like Ed Sr.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 9:41:25 AM EDT
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Are you implying that a handgun and body armor would have helped you much in this situation? If you're not on the job, I seriously doubt you're lugging around armor all day. And there's no way in hell you're going to outdraw someone who's already drawn! Ed's right on the money. There are two places of relative safety with a handgun: several hundred yards away & right up on the sumbitch. I've done a similar drill many times with airsoft guns and I have never gotten hit. The most important thing is not to get shot. After that, the attacker is going to be so concentrated on retaining their weapon that you can take them apart pretty easily.
Originally Posted By soylent_green: 1.Very carefully raise your hands. 2. Make sure there is a look of fear on your face, bad guys prefer that. 3. Get as close to the weapon as you can. 4. Using that dojo move, smack the weapon away from the center of your body in a lightening fast move. 5. Scream "Oh shit!" and clutch the area that has just been shot while you fall down. 6. Scream "Ahhh! Oh shit!" as the scumbag pumps another round into you for fun and because you were such an idiot. Repeat as necessary. 7. Wish that you still had your cell phone and your wallet. 8. Pass out due to pain, blood loss, and shock. 9. Awake to the kindly face of your Grandfather standing on a pleasant field of green. Be pleasantly surpised to see the dog you put to sleep when you were a boy jumping with joy to see you. Does that help? Maybe you should get a CCW and a nice IIA vest from Second Chance. Screw that hand to hand crap. That is for tough guys like Ed Sr.
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Link Posted: 11/8/2002 9:50:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2002 7:14:40 PM EDT by soylent_green]
You guys are just too tough for me. I have too much experience with aggression and too many scars. I have come to the conclusion, after much careful thought and study, that pain hurts. While I applaud and certainly support charging a near ambush, understand that when you do it you are probably going to be hurt. I know I have done exactly that. And yes, I do tend to wear my "chicken vest" these days, since no colostomy is either wanted or needed. Remember the brave words of King Arthur when faced with the beast of Arrrggh in Monty Python and the Holy grail, "Run away!" Edited due to poor English.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 10:46:02 AM EDT
In most "aggressive interactions" both parties usually get hurt. Just make sure you *snap* and HURT THE OTHER FUCKER 3X WORSE! *[pissed]*
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 11:05:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 11:49:09 AM EDT
No sarcasm intended Ed, I have seen your picture. I wouldn't want to tangle with you.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 1:34:17 PM EDT
I guess my vote is to give the criminal what he wants, unless it's my life. In that case, I would cry and beg my way to the gun side of the criminal and then run like hell zig-zagging past him. I figure I'd use the gun side, because it is harder for most to aim/hit while turning backhand. I'd only go for the weapon if running was not an option. I'd beg/cry some and make a praying motion with both hands together in front of me. Once the criminal buys it, I'd spread both arms so that one hand would grab the gun hand and the other would strike to the throat/nose/eyes. Hasta la vista, I'm out of there. I can hold my own in hand-to-hand, but why take the chance of screwing up or having his buddies show up while you're getting fancy?
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 2:15:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sesat_ram: Simple scenario: Guy 5 feet away from you pulls out a handgun. Public school didn't give me the education I needed, so I hope you guys can give pointers to us beginners.
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remember hi-school? guy pulls out his dick, you pull out yours? just make sure yours is bigger and more intimidating.... or, you could stand closer to make sure he doesnt miss.
Link Posted: 11/8/2002 8:53:29 PM EDT
If you're really wearing armor, then I have to agree. You might have a shot at putting a round in him before he gets one past your vest. For most of us, though, the safest place to be is in close (behind the muzzle of his weapon), gouging and kicking and ripping.
Originally Posted By soylent_green: And yes, I do tend to wear my "chicken vest" these days, since no colostomy is either wanted or needed.
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Link Posted: 11/11/2002 5:34:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2002 5:35:25 AM EDT by JScott]
Originally Posted By soylent_green: I have come to the conclusion, after much careful thought and study, that pain hurts.
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Such a blinding insight may find its way into my sig. JScott, who knows wisdom when he sees it. EDIT to correct quote tags
Link Posted: 11/11/2002 5:59:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/11/2002 6:01:54 AM EDT
Draw out your own weapon faster and shoot first. or bettter yet. dont put yourself into that position.
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 8:02:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2002 8:04:15 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC: Draw out your own weapon faster and shoot first. or bettter yet. dont put yourself into that position.
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I agree! Try disarming someone who actually knows how to use a pistol and you will be shot. Disarms can be done in extreme cases but you have to be LUCKY. In the scenario posted above "Guy 5 feet away from you pulls out a handgun." The best thing to do is to start moving QUICKLY diagonally and/or laterally out of the line of fire. Which way and how will depend on you situation and your environment. If you are armed you have some other options. Again depending on the situation you may want to close in and attack or make space and evade. There really to many factors to give a straight answer. If you are going to disarm you must first get and maintain muzzle control(away from you) before doing any fancy twisty wristy moves. You must also be prepared to be shot during the attempt. If the person knows what they're doing and is protecting and holding the pistol in close quarter rentention, then you'll need a lot more LUCK.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:36:39 PM EDT
The best thing to do is to start moving QUICKLY diagonally and/or laterally out of the line of fire.
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Agreed. (insert my usual rant about the state police and South Carolina CCW's) Since I don't have a CCW, running is my first choice. Twice in the past five years I've run from muggers. Thankfully, neither had a gun. You'd be amazed at how reluctant a bad guy is to follow you when you run towards the middle of the street screaming like a woman. I did that twice. The last time I faced a mugger, I couldn't run. I was doing a pick-up at a jewelry store which is in the corner of a shopping center (like a V where the store is at the bottom of the V), and the two kids were between me and my van. Behind me was a locked door. I pulled my CRKT M-16 tanto, and they ran. I was afraid I'd have to hurt one of them. The older one looked about 14, so I don't know if I could have. I've never even punched someone, so the idea of trying to disarm a bad guy is a probably beyond my skill. I probably should find a partner to practice with, but the one time I saw someone teach it, they used a hard plastic replica of a Glock. The first guy that tried to disarm the instructor broke his trigger finger. The class ended at that point. I'm just mentioning that in case someone here decides to try disarming techniques with a real (unloaded) pistol. Keep your trigger finger out of the trigger guard!z
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:42:20 PM EDT
Disarming techniques were part of the LEO classes I taught for a few years. They are very useful against someone who doesn't know what they are doing; they are significantly less successful against people that know what they are doing. What's it worth to you to guess the skill level of your assailant?
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:03:44 PM EDT
All depends on your options. Not getting INTO the situation is best. Is the nut going to kill you or just steal your stuff? I prefer replacing stuff rather than healing. If forced, Ed's advice seems good. The nut BETTER shoot me because IF he doesn't I am subject to beat his body to a pulp. Steel toed boots are rough on ribs. And no, I don't care if he is 10! If the jerk is old enough to try and kill me he is old enough for an adult beating or worse.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:32:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 2:46:23 PM EDT
Carry a fiver on a heavy money clip. Train yourself to throw the clip previous to any future attacks. Plea for your life, hands in the air. Let the freak know you've got a C-note on a clip in your pocket and you want to give it to him. As you pick the clip... side step and toss the clip towards him (at his face specifically). Step sideways and in, grab the weapon at the slide and seize the weapon from cycling with your right hand. Chop down with your left hand as you turn the weapon at your freak, release grip on the right and sympathetic trigger squeeze may fire the round right at his G.D. head. After that... break him down. His reliance is on HIS weapon. Grabbing the weapon at the slide is sho-in to freezing up him and his weapon. grumps
Link Posted: 11/27/2002 2:57:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sesat_ram: Simple scenario: Guy 5 feet away from you pulls out a handgun. Public school didn't give me the education I needed, so I hope you guys can give pointers to us beginners.
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You are in what I commonly refer to as sniper range. You can't touch the gun......You're screwed. Get more distance.....it's a good thing....Your already at ~2 yards. Slowly backup and talk your way out. The closer you are, the less skill he/she needs to shoot you - more distance is a good for you and increases your chance at getting away without your blood spilling. If you had been 3 feet away, different story....at that distance (grabbing range) you have a hundred different option. Just don't sweep their gun across you or other good guys. MHO, Jeff
Link Posted: 12/8/2002 8:49:08 PM EDT
Have any of you tried this ??? Give him what he wants and not get shot ? 9/10 times they want money or whatever and do NOOOOOOOOTTTTTTT want to hurt you ... trying some dumb ass airsoft proven move will get you shot
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 2:16:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 4:40:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 4:43:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By soylent_green: 1.Very carefully raise your hands. 2. Make sure there is a look of fear on your face, bad guys prefer that. 3. Get as close to the weapon as you can. 4. Using that dojo move, smack the weapon away from the center of your body in a lightening fast move. 5. Scream "Oh shit!" and clutch the area that has just been shot while you fall down. 6. Scream "Ahhh! Oh shit!" as the scumbag pumps another round into you for fun and because you were such an idiot. Repeat as necessary. 7. Wish that you still had your cell phone and your wallet. 8. Pass out due to pain, blood loss, and shock. 9. Awake to the kindly face of your Grandfather standing on a pleasant field of green. Be pleasantly surpised to see the dog you put to sleep when you were a boy jumping with joy to see you. Does that help? Maybe you should get a CCW and a nice IIA vest from Second Chance. Screw that hand to hand crap. That is for tough guys like Ed Sr.
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[Bart]Holy shit, dude.[/Bart]
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 1:06:33 PM EDT
Well if you get into a shit happens situation and it seems inevitable that he will kill you ... then try ... keep your hands raised in his perifery so that he can't be attentive of both your hands ... beg plead and keep him distracted use the same hand he is carrying in and grab the gun so that your palm faces him force it up (so that way ya don't point the gun at anyone else) twist the gun against his thumb in the same action and get close to him use further distraction techniques as necessary (exterior or anterior femoral are best so that you can keep attention on his upper body) and when you have disarmed him draw your weapon (since you don't even know if his will function) and keep him covered all in all i still prefer my first choice there but they seem to be teaching this method in various self defence circles
Link Posted: 12/10/2002 11:53:36 PM EDT
"If you think a fight is going to start, then start the fight" Jim Harrison
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 12:05:02 PM EDT
For what its worth, theoretical ramblings I've happened on: 1) Don't risk a disarm unless you absolutely have not choice. Never let an armed attacker put you in a car or move you to a different location. 2) Pray the sucker gets within arm reach. Keep your hands up, level with shoulders, open. Ask him a question; the second he starts to respond, execute. There is a millisecond pause he will have to work through as his mind changes from the reply to retask shooting you. Might be all the time you need. 3) Use the disarm technique of choice; Israeli, aikido, kick in the groin, whatever you know, but mind a few things: muzzle blast is blinding and disabling: keep your face away from it, stepping past the muzzle as you execute. If you grab the weapon, be prepared for a nasty cut as the slide racks when the weapon discharges. Finally, control the weapon. All theory, never had to practice it. Hope I don't.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:57:59 PM EDT
Last but not least, if you are successful, use the creeps weapon to beat him senseless. Then beat him some more.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:30:11 PM EDT
Hell, once you have control of the gun, the only socially acceptable course of action is to empty the magazine in a safe direction. After all, the loaded gun was the cause of the violent encounter. You should use a suitable bullet trap, of course; I'm sure one will come to mind.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:33:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TwoStage: "If you think a fight is going to start, then start the fight" Jim Harrison
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corollary: If he invades your space, the fight is already started. Whether you throw the first punch is irrelevant from a survival standpoint. (Not really relevant to the discussion at hand, but very true.)
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