Posted: 8/1/2011 8:30:53 AM EDT
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So I can't really run...
Not as in I don't want to but I can't run distance. Not for a lack of never having done it but when I was 19 and training for BUD/s I injured myself by too much distance and adding sprints to the routine without letting up on the distance. I wound up with ITBS REALLY REALLY FUCKING BAD I am saying talking bad as in I couldn't do anything better then a half stride without my leg involuntarily snapping back underneath me and send me stumbling. I could barely walk down stairs and on occasion just sitting in a magazine trunk with my legs dangling I'd be swinging them and it would feel as if my tendon would slip underneath my knee cap and cause the WORST pain I've ever felt. So while in the Navy I of course tried to rehab it with weights and stretching and everything else I could find on the subject. I tried for 3 years to rehab before my enlistment was up and became apparent that my life long goal of becoming a SEAL was going to be left unaccomplished. There were always those moments of hope though. Like the occasional trail run I'd do with my buddy. I'd have been doing plyometrics with out any problem and then hit the trail. Having not really run in a year we held a 7 minute mile pace through the 3 mile trail, success! Wait, no, ITB would be shot by the time I made it back to the ship... No walk run program did any better even after months of weights to try and correct any muscle imbalance, never happened. After getting out I again (because dreams/goals don't die easy) tried to rehab it with the same deal (friend of the family is a PT) but whenever I'd try to start running again, no matter what, after 3 runs the ITB would flare up and I'd be OOC for weeks and be in the same boat as when I was 19... Didn't matter if I started on the lamest walk run program, didn't matter the shoes or inserts. Went to special running stores and had my stride recorded and analyzed.... Nope, no luck. I worked construction and when ever we built pitched roof houses, 3 days of decking the roof walking on those angles my ITB would flare up and would remind me why I was not on a SEAL Team... I would hike all the time and while going up was easy coming down was a knee buckle away from a face plant (never did though I haven't run in probably 7 years, I should probably say I haven't tried to run in 7 years (stopped riding the bike in '05 or '06 I think?) now minus the occasional sprint at Gun matches and bragging rights matches with friend. So I got to thinking yesterday, maybe sprints would be ok but with out a real aerobic base going on or any running endurance in the legs how should I start this? This is where you guys come in, you got any advice? If my ITB goes well then at least I gave it another shot and will again be a nice kick in the nuts to why I am not on a SEAL Team right now... So whatcha got? |
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You may want to look up POSE running. It is running with completely different form than what you are used to. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.crossfit.com%2Ffree%2Fpdf%2F64_07_PoseRun_Techniques.pdf&rct=j&q=POSE%20running%20crossfit.&ei=TNg2TsfkJeXIsQLYn7HsCg&usg=AFQjCNH5wmwtew7FofrDo7DFrfUd7dl9yg&cad=rja |
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You may want to look up POSE running. It is running with completely different form than what you are used to. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.crossfit.com%2Ffree%2Fpdf%2F64_07_PoseRun_Techniques.pdf&rct=j&q=POSE%20running%20crossfit.&ei=TNg2TsfkJeXIsQLYn7HsCg&usg=AFQjCNH5wmwtew7FofrDo7DFrfUd7dl9yg&cad=rja Very interesting. |
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You may want to look up POSE running. It is running with completely different form than what you are used to. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.crossfit.com%2Ffree%2Fpdf%2F64_07_PoseRun_Techniques.pdf&rct=j&q=POSE%20running%20crossfit.&ei=TNg2TsfkJeXIsQLYn7HsCg&usg=AFQjCNH5wmwtew7FofrDo7DFrfUd7dl9yg&cad=rja Very interesting. Just know that certain studies have linked pose with higer % of ankle injuries and being less efficient. If youre going to sprint, I would stay as level as possible. Any change in joint angle or repeated turns tend to cause flare ups. Although that doesnt explain your trail run experience. You might just have really tight IT bands and werent meant to run...as crappy as that sounds. |
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You may want to look up POSE running. It is running with completely different form than what you are used to. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.crossfit.com%2Ffree%2Fpdf%2F64_07_PoseRun_Techniques.pdf&rct=j&q=POSE%20running%20crossfit.&ei=TNg2TsfkJeXIsQLYn7HsCg&usg=AFQjCNH5wmwtew7FofrDo7DFrfUd7dl9yg&cad=rja Very interesting. Just know that certain studies have linked pose with higer % of ankle injuries and being less efficient. Well a few years ago I rolled an ankle really badly, pretty sure I tore some stuff... Either way I am not even going to bother with trying to start a running program for distance. I am not even looking at sprinting past 400m to be honest. More like to simulate sprinting from house to house kind of thing, from cover to cover. Which in a away will help out with my multigun matches as those types of sprints are incorporated fairly often. But just want some guidance as I haven't run in forever. |
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But just want some guidance as I haven't run in forever. How old are you? You could play with the barefoot thing a bit, just start very slowly - minimal duration and add gradually. I'd be very cautions about beginning a program with intensity at the very highest level right from the gun. I'd want to do some body hardening by doing easy running (20-30 min every other day) for a few weeks to prepare the lower body for the increased impact forces that come with sprinting. |
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But just want some guidance as I haven't run in forever. How old are you? You could play with the barefoot thing a bit, just start very slowly - minimal duration and add gradually. I'd be very cautions about beginning a program with intensity at the very highest level right from the gun. I'd want to do some body hardening by doing easy running (20-30 min every other day) for a few weeks to prepare the lower body for the increased impact forces that come with sprinting. Just turned 31 yesterday...
That's why I asked, I know it not ideal but I'd like to try while being somewhat informed. |
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You may want to look up POSE running. It is running with completely different form than what you are used to. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.crossfit.com%2Ffree%2Fpdf%2F64_07_PoseRun_Techniques.pdf&rct=j&q=POSE%20running%20crossfit.&ei=TNg2TsfkJeXIsQLYn7HsCg&usg=AFQjCNH5wmwtew7FofrDo7DFrfUd7dl9yg&cad=rja Very interesting. Just know that certain studies have linked pose with higer % of ankle injuries and being less efficient. If youre going to sprint, I would stay as level as possible. Any change in joint angle or repeated turns tend to cause flare ups. Although that doesnt explain your trail run experience. You might just have really tight IT bands and werent meant to run...as crappy as that sounds. Oh I know but for so long it worked lol. I was never very good at distance. Was always a great sprinter and always in the top 3 fasted or the fasted kid at school, from 5-12th grade. Played soccer, football and baseball. Then focused on SEALs and went to distance running. Took seriously like 4-5 years to get my runs any good. Was up to running 20-36 miles a week between 6-8 minute miles. Then BLAM! It all went to shit... |
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Just turned 31 yesterday...
That's why I asked, I know it not ideal but I'd like to try while being somewhat informed. You're not that old, but old enough where a sudden injection of very high intensity work could cause problems. Start slowly, whatever you choose. |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_113/1191023_The_Official_SEAL_Warning_Order_PT__Slightly_Modified__And_we_ve_begun_.html
Been doing this but like I said haven't run or rode in some time. |
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I wonder if you have some hip/SI and knee joint dysfunction that is causing the ITB stuff.
That said, I could get you some good stuff for sprints/very non-endurance workouts (this was my sport and what I coach). I'm curious to know what happens if you very slowly jog, like you could walk faster, type of jog for 50m, then walk 50m, then jog 50m for 600m total. You'll need a good warm-up doing sprints. I didn't run anything over 200m continuously for 4 yrs. ETA: That POSE stuff is ok. For sprints, once out of the blocks and upright it's all about slowing down the least. Most (not all, like Johnson and Bolt) sprinters only accelerate for the first 40-50m. At that point you want your foot contact directly under your COG and creating more of a tap to keep your COG in the air. Very little force is done to move you forward (object in motion stays in motion) less foot contact the better. It's also more of a pawing motion, almost flat-foot contact, heels may just barely contact the ground. |
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I wonder if you have some hip/SI and knee joint dysfunction that is causing the ITB stuff. That said, I could get you some good stuff for sprints/very non-endurance workouts (this was my sport and what I coach). I'm curious to know what happens if you very slowly jog, like you could walk faster, type of jog for 50m, then walk 50m, then jog 50m for 600m total. You'll need a good warm-up doing sprints. I didn't run anything over 200m continuously for 4 yrs. ETA: That POSE stuff is ok. For sprints, once out of the blocks and upright it's all about slowing down the least. Most (not all, like Johnson and Bolt) sprinters only accelerate for the first 40-50m. At that point you want your foot contact directly under your COG and creating more of a tap to keep your COG in the air. Very little force is done to move you forward (object in motion stays in motion) less foot contact the better. It's also more of a pawing motion, almost flat-foot contact, heels may just barely contact the ground. I can give it go! Any help would be appreciated. |
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Start with the 50m-50m for 600m. If you still feel good, sprinting is just as much about mechanics as it is strength.
On grass or a rubber track: A skips 2x 25m seated hamstring stretch 2x 3seconds quad stretch 2x 3sec Quadri-ped hip extension 10 - as you extend the leg point your toes (plantar flex), as you bring the leg back down dorsi flex Glute stretch 2x 3sec Heel stretch with knee straight 2x 3sec and knee bent (15-20 degrees) 2x 3 sec High knees 2x25m Keep torso upright, don't lean forward or back. I'm not worried about distance much here or on butt kicks. More about time, 5 seconds or so. High knee butt kicks 2x25m (makes a good point about keeping 90 degrees bend at ankle aka dorsi flexion) Skips for distance (just go forward, don't strain for it, make sure to get arm swing)2x25m Lateral and forward/backward leg swings 10 I would do them lateral each leg and then forward/backward each leg. Build-ups 2x 40m to 80% start out slow and gradually increase you cadence. Like somebody coming out of the blocks in slow motion and increase speed I would see how you feel with just that doing it 3 times with 2 days in between. Take your time. Walk back recovery after each sprint drill. Hydrate before. Oh and even more importantly, depending where you are in AZ, if it's below 80 degrees I say wear light warm-up pants. You will sweat but that's what we want. On your day in between I would do the 50m-50m again and stretch out anything sore. Are you doing any weights? If so, what and how much? You'll want to coordinate weights with this too other wise you'll get way too much CNS drain and in 4-6wks feel like shit or have some injury. |
| I suppinate naturally. I ran hilly roads and sometimes uneven surfaces. I developed ITBS (officially undiagnosed but a doc looked at it) and it hurt just sitting for extended times. I stopped running for a while and let it heal and then studied stretches. I have on stretch I do before every run now and I run on flat surfaces with good shoes and I haven't had it crop up since. I haven't pushed myself long distance in quite a while though so that may be why. |
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Start with the 50m-50m for 600m. If you still feel good, sprinting is just as much about mechanics as it is strength. On grass or a rubber track: A skips 2x 25m seated hamstring stretch 2x 3seconds quad stretch 2x 3sec Quadri-ped hip extension 10 - as you extend the leg point your toes (plantar flex), as you bring the leg back down dorsi flex Glute stretch 2x 3sec Heel stretch with knee straight 2x 3sec and knee bent (15-20 degrees) 2x 3 sec High knees 2x25m Keep torso upright, don't lean forward or back. I'm not worried about distance much here or on butt kicks. More about time, 5 seconds or so. High knee butt kicks 2x25m (makes a good point about keeping 90 degrees bend at ankle aka dorsi flexion) Skips for distance (just go forward, don't strain for it, make sure to get arm swing)2x25m Lateral and forward/backward leg swings 10 I would do them lateral each leg and then forward/backward each leg. Build-ups 2x 40m to 80% start out slow and gradually increase you cadence. Like somebody coming out of the blocks in slow motion and increase speed I would see how you feel with just that doing it 3 times with 2 days in between. Take your time. Walk back recovery after each sprint drill. Hydrate before. Oh and even more importantly, depending where you are in AZ, if it's below 80 degrees I say wear light warm-up pants. You will sweat but that's what we want. On your day in between I would do the 50m-50m again and stretch out anything sore. Are you doing any weights? Not weights really but a PT program that I linked above If so, what and how much? You'll want to coordinate weights with this too other wise you'll get way too much CNS drain and in 4-6wks feel like shit or have some injury. Yeah I've been there before, so I am going to have to work into this slowly, I have to remind myself I am getting old and don't quite recover like I did 5 years ago... And sorry for not getting back sooner, I worked a lot the past week and have been to drained to think I figure I am gonna have to work this in around my kids and their routine. I may not be able to really start this until my youngest tappers to only 1 nap a day? I'll see what I can do and thank you for the advice and direction, very much appreciated! |
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OP - Just out of curiosity, how much weight (if any) have you gained since the last time you were comfortable with a proper running technique? That might play a large role in your ability to reconstitute an efficient running form. One thing I've learned as an aging (49 years old) runner is that one of the best ways to keep the form optimized without damaging joints is to "run" in the pool. And I don't mean running in the shallow end with your feet touching the bottom (although that's not a bad workout either), but getting some type of flotation device around your waist and "running" upright in the deep end. This allows you to work the one major contributor to speed aka hip flexion, without impacting the feet and ankles. Once you get your quick hips back, then go out on the roads with the previously mentioned footstrike technique drills. Speed - it all starts in the hips. |
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OP - Just out of curiosity, how much weight (if any) have you gained since the last time you were comfortable with a proper running technique? That might play a large role in your ability to reconstitute an efficient running form. One thing I've learned as an aging (49 years old) runner is that one of the best ways to keep the form optimized without damaging joints is to "run" in the pool. And I don't mean running in the shallow end with your feet touching the bottom (although that's not a bad workout either), but getting some type of flotation device around your waist and "running" upright in the deep end. This allows you to work the one major contributor to speed aka hip flexion, without impacting the feet and ankles. Once you get your quick hips back, then go out on the roads with the previously mentioned footstrike technique drills. Speed - it all starts in the hips. Shit, when I was in my prime (if you will) and training for BUD/s I weighed about 175-180lbs. I hit the weights after the navy and got up to 215lb and now hang between 200-210lbs. |
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CFE is a lot more sprint biased than most running programs out there, may be worth a look, gain the strength and cardio capacity without the miles pounding on your ITB. http://www.crossfitendurance.com/run/
I get some slight soreness after a 5k in my right ITB, usually a standing cross leg stretch http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/front/knee/runnersknee/stretching.php and an ice pack for 20 minutes takes the pain away. |