AR Precision Testing (Page 2 of 8)
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This thread is relevant to my interests....
LaRue Stealth 20" in a Mega Monolithic upper. I have done some load dev with Hornady 73 ELD and 75 BTHP. Also some with the 69gr Sierra. All grouped well but I favor the 73 ELD. Need to order some more as I am almost out..... 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Thank you! Assistance is appreciated. With about how many rounds wanted, shipping address, etc... bullet weight preferences... ( I'd kinda like to throw some MEN 56gr FMJ, Pretty darned accurate in my rifles, considering it is ball, at you as well.. but fully understand if you'd rather use a certain bullet weight'ish ) Thank You for doing all this. |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
Guess we’ll call this a teaser. Wasn’t real thrilled with how I did on the last outing, so I brought the creedmoor and 5 rds for this last trip. Maybe it’s not cherry picking if you only fired five rounds for the day?
 Let the girlfriend run an AR (Ultramatch) with 3 factory loads as well. The consensus is that these barrels shoot! 
Gratuitous pic of her during testing. 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I may give those a try. I mainly shoot longer distance, but those may be good for intermediate paper fun. I don’t necessarily believe in bullets going to sleep since I don’t understand how gyroscopic stability increases once a bullet leaves the muzzle, but I may need to read up more on the subject. I’ve had great results with 73 eld-m’s and 75hpbt from a few rifles. The 73 eld-m is my go to bullet for my girlfriends rifle. On the other hand, Berger's longer range bullets, being of boat-tail design and having far better BC, are much less affected by wind, which becomes a factor at longer ranges. By that reasoning, flat based, lighter, lower BC bullets can be made closer to their standard of perfection than the longer, heavier high BC bullets, but lose ground in practical accuracy at longer distances due to the effect of wind. I honestly don't know. I do know that my rifle loves the flat based 52 Bergers when shooting for groups at 100 yards. |
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All good info ! I hope my BA 22" 6.5CM gets its "act together"... ( even if it was a poor upper to lower fit ), yours if even a "sample of one 5rd group" would be very promising to me. I'll see if the tightening of the upper and lower fitment did the job. |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Guess we’ll call this a teaser. Wasn’t real thrilled with how I did on the last outing, so I brought the creedmoor and 5 rds for this last trip. Maybe it’s not cherry picking if you only fired five rounds for the day? https://i.imgur.com/uGkjTFp.jpg Let the girlfriend run an AR (Ultramatch) with 3 factory loads as well. The consensus is that these barrels shoot! https://i.imgur.com/n1hWWJU.jpg Gratuitous pic of her during testing. https://i.imgur.com/UksStOv.jpg |
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Originally Posted By MS556: Beautiful! The rifle's not too shabby, either! Battery died before the 5th shot... (shots begin 31 seconds in, right target, top left)  Better Half MOA practice |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Special thanks to Bfoosh06 and Lennyo3034 for helping to give this project additional data points. Bfoosh06 has gratiously offered to assist with a variety of factory ammo and Lennyo3034 has offered up barrel(s) to test. Thank you both for your generosity. FYI.. you should be getting some of the ammo today and the other tomorrow. And no rush at all.. just wanted you to have it on hand, rather then waiting on ammo. I sent some 55gr FMJ's that have proven to be more precise from my barrels... MEN, GECO ( .223 and 5.56 ) simply for cheaper fodder at 100yds. And, just to keep others in the loop, this ammo was sent. MEN 56gr FMJ 5.56 IMI 77gr 5.56... watch the primers ! IMI can be great and poor. Horn. 62gr BTHP 5.56 GECO .223 55gr FMJ GECO 5.56 55gr FMJ Horn. 75gr Steel Match .223 CBC / Magtech 77gr 5.56 |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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First shipment received! Thanks again
I’ve been really tied up with work lately so I haven’t been able to get my LaRue Stealth shipped back, but I’ll try to get it out tomorrow and resume testing when it returns and I finish up match prep for October. Taking my better half to two events in Oct., so I’ve got lots of reloading to get taken care of. I hope to have the BCA modified and the Rainier Match ready as well for the next round of testing. I’ll be running the Rainier Match and BA 6.5 creedmoor in an upcoming MOA event, so 5 x 5 results will be posted (no pressure...). Any others wanting to see what the DD barrel will do? Never really tested it with a magnified optic. 
More goodness arrived! 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
A few more items arrived. The 75 eld’s are for my GF’s bolt gun that I hope to get slapped together this weekend, but I may try them single loaded in a few of the 223 AR’s till the 224Valkyrie begins to breath fire! https://i.imgur.com/9RgpRgH.jpg The Krieger has landed https://i.imgur.com/jgFr0Fs.jpg Unfortunately, its quite shot out now. It's still decently accurate at 100 yards but doesn't hold that accuracy at distance. Steel pins getting shot down the bore didn't help things either. |
Not my best outing, maybe it was the 4hrs of sleep, but this was the results from yesterday. Each 25rd group was shot in about 7 minutes. For the ADI, the high round was the first from the mag. The top left group was from 2 different lots of ammo. The point of impact was adjusted from the bullseye after the first group of ADI, and down for the last 2 groups of IMI to ensure they stayed on paper.
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Originally Posted By RFutch:
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle. 
It's not terrible, but I also probably wouldn't classify it as true "match" grade ammo. |
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Given the IMI is 5.56 pressure... those results are pretty danged good for "Mil-Spec" bulk'ish ammo. Haven’t shot a tactical style event in almost 2yrs and managed to finish in 2nd place. I’d like to think that I would have done better with handloads, but I doubt the IMI ammo was holding me back much. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
2790 seems low for an 18” barrel. I was pushing 2900 with a 20” barrel so I’d expect closer to 2850 for an 18”. The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Yea, your speed seems to be faster than most. The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on. That's out of a CLE match chamber, not sure about the impact of that to overall velocity. |
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CLE is a shallower leade .223 Rem.
2850fps is damn fast from a 20". 23.8gr H4895 under moly'd 77s gave 2800, I backed down to 23.5gr for approx 2750. Partly for safety, partly to match TSRA Junior spec. 2900 is asking for trouble. |
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
#BraddersIsFreed
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
#BraddersIsFreed
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Any new results ? ... Just curious, not trying to be pushy. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Unfortunately not. Every day that I’ve had free over the past few weeks it’s either been raining or I’ve had a prior engagement scheduled. I should be getting out to the range this weekend or over the holiday break. Over the fall.. they amount to about 3500lbs of dry leaves.... ( yes, measured at the reclamation center... Ugh. ) I am convinced I could fully bury the truck with the seasons worth. If I could just figure out how to use all of them as targets.... |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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It looks like there’s little chance of rain after lunch tomorrow, so I plan on testing the RA Match, the Krieger (thanks again Lenny) and possibly the 2nd RA Ultramatch. Also have to function check the Nucleus build I just finished tonight for my gf and chrono a few loads for her 223 bolt gun.
RA Match 
Krieger 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
It looks like there’s little chance of rain after lunch tomorrow, so I plan on testing the RA Match, the Krieger (thanks again Lenny) and possibly the 2nd RA Ultramatch. Also have to function check the Nucleus build I just finished tonight for my gf and chrono a few loads for her 223 bolt gun. RA Match https://i.imgur.com/YeKyayx.jpg Krieger https://i.imgur.com/k7NjthO.jpg |
The weather is really trying my patience. Waited for the rain to subside and made it to the field only for the fog to roll in about 5 minutes after I arrived. Decided to run a target down to the 100yrd mark to not let the day be a total waste. Couldn’t really make out the target well and just sent a few downrange to function test and rough zero a build finished the night before. After that group I couldn’t make out anything past about 40yds and decided to call it a day.
The “loaner” Jewel caught me off guard on the first one.  Maybe I’ll get free tomorrow and the weather will hold up. |
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Weather isn’t looking great for the weekend, but some additional ammo showed up for when conditions improve. Some Hornady 88eld-m 224VALKYRIE ammo is supposed to be here tomorrow.
A fresh Rainier Match SPR barrel also arrived along with some SIG 223 brass to test out. I’ll be running the SIG in our bolt gun as well to get a baseline of how it stacks up against Lapua and in the AR’s against my LC loads. It’s about 5gr lighter than the Lapua and ~1gr lighter than the LC. I doubt that’s all in base weight, so I’ll likely need to add some additional powder to the loads to account for the perceived increase in case capacity. The weights have been pretty consistent from the 12-15 that I weight, with all but one being within .2grs of each other. The one outlier from the SMALL sample size was .6grs from the average (90.8gr). 
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All signs are pointing towards decent weather tomorrow. Plans are for the Krieger, Rainier Match and the Larue 224VALKYRIE. If I get time on the reloading bench, I may bring the 6.5 grendel and 6.5 creedmoor Ballistic Advantage builds.
Also, I’ve got some FGMM 105 Berger hybrid 6creed ammo to test in the nucleus builds. Not AR’s, but it’ll be interesting to see what they can do in a rifle that can deliver sub half moa groups with the 105’s and H4350 in Lapua brass. If they group, I may grab more to run in the Falkor 6 creed at the end of December. Note: ADI 69’s that are part of the newer import lots are packaged differently. I’ll do some measurements prior to shooting to see they have the same dimensions, but the performance of the bullets is what ultimately counts. 
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Finally got out to the range!
I was able to test the Rainier Match (old barrel) the LaRue 224 Valkyrie but had some gas/magazine issues with the Krieger barreled upper. Time was somewhat limited since there were several shooters at the range and several benches were occupied. Spent most of the time with my girlfriend letting her try out the 6 creed that I built her over Thanksgiving and the rest letting my daughter shoot the 223 bolt gun. RA Match- Performed reasonably well with the ADI 69’s (new imports). I need to test this barrel more, because in the past it preferred 75/77’s over the lighter stuff. Also, I didn’t baseline this load in the RA Ultramatch to see if it performs the same as the older lots. I did measure 20 of them and the Base to ogive was within .002” from the old lots. The base to shoulder was the same as well. Note: The center group of ADI’s was fired by my girlfriend. 3 bottom right- LaRue 234V AE 75 
Left groups are the 223 bolt gun. Bottom 3 were ADI 69. Tough to chamber with the reamer that was used on this build, so we stopped at 3. 
LaRue 224- I don’t know what to say. It’s a fresh build and had zero rounds downrange prior to this outing. Hopefully its just a burr at the gas port or something. I do know that the receiver to barrel was loose compared to my other builds. Although Mark suggested I just paint the barrel extension, I may break it apart and try to shim stock the extension. 
Sig brass- The surprise of the day! I thought that I would need to add some extra powder to make up for a perceived increase in case capacity and I think I guessed right. I fired a charge that was .2gr heavier than the load I use with Lapua brass and managed a .16moa group. My girlfriend, not wanting to be outdone, fired the group to the right that was .3gr heavier and had 4 great shots but pulled/canted on rd 3 of 5 which ruined the <.25moa group she was working on. Resisted firing the load that was .1gr over what I typically run and decided to let my daughter continue shooting. Limited data so far, but I’ll be testing this at greater length. 
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This is really good stuff, man. I'm truly inspired to due a precision SPR 5.56 build. I'm thinking I might spend the dough for a Bartlein barrel as they have an SPR 5.56 profile available and seem to be under represented around here. Wringing one out might be fun. I have a Vltor MUR lying around that has been crying about not having a home. |
"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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Tested the LaRue 224VALKYRIE again today. First group of the day with it was the bottom left with AE 75’s. Shots 1-3 were decent, then the POI began to shift down. The next group wasn’t grouping tight so I decided to switch over to the Hornady 88’s. The first group was the bottom left. After the initial group, I adjusted the scope up to keep the rounds on paper. Anyone else seeing this from other barrels? The dropping down after 4-5 shots? I’d love to get this figured out as I’ve experienced it with 2 barrels during this testing. 
Note: top right group, shot with asterisk was a round that had difficulty chambering and required loading twice. The case had a minor dent in the shoulder of the case. I was feeling defeated so I grabbed my dads AR from his truck (Rainier Ultramatch #2). I wasn’t planning on testing it today and it’s current configuration isn’t ideal for prone shooting. I didn’t swap out the 9-13” bipod that he has mounted on it, and I really should have for the best results. There really wasn’t much rear support when on target, so I know I pulled a shot or two. Despite that, it still was performing better than the 224V, which had a much more stable rear rest. 
I tested the Sig brass again with 3 loads and the MagnetoSpeed. It appears to be good stuff! The better groups were the go to load without the magnetospeed attached. Testing of this brass compared to LC for AR’s will begin next month. 
Pulling the ATACR from the 224VALKYRIE to put on the Krieger 223. Testing it tomorrow! Edit: Added scored target images |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Additional LaRue Stealth, Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor and.....Bear Creek Arsenal results have been added to Post #3. Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run? It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team. 24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT 24.5 grain Varget tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel |
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Originally Posted By USMC_JA:
Did the .224V Larue ship with a target? If so, what did it look like and what ammo did they use? I’ll pull the 224VALKYRIE barrel in the next few days and install the Rainier Match barrel that was purchased during the Black Friday sale in the same build (upper receiver, gas block, rail) to see how it performs. I want to confirm there’s no issue with the other components before attempting to send the Valkyrie back to the manufacturer for inspection. |
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@Lennyo3034 I’d hate to see what this barrel did before it had a high round count! I know it’s factory ammo, but this barrel makes you feel like it’s all you if they don’t go in the same hole.
Got a late start on range time today so I was pretty rushed, but man, this barrel shoots. I’ll definitely be getting back out with more time and a decent rear bag to see what this thing can do. I fired 2 sighter a while adjusting the scope that I pulled off of the 224VALKYRIE. I was impressed with what it did with the Hornady steel match (first groups), but was blown away with how it shot the Magtech. After the first one from the mag, the next 4 from both groups was really nice. By the time I got to the ADI the barrel was warm and I didn’t have enough daylight to give it another break before strings, so I was dealing with some mirage (warm barrel, 50F ambient temp). Shot 4 on the second group (Right) went low, so I fired a 6th round for that group. I didn’t think I pulled it, but shot 6 went into the previous group. I’ll test that again to see if it improves. 
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Molon did a bunch of stuff like this before he stopped posting. It bet it would be worth wild to check out his work. Bet there is a lot of useful information that would help you out on this quest. I know he pissed of a few company's cause their barrels ended up not shooting as good as the claimed. Scott |
Shut the front door.
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Nice! If you’re going to keep that barrel in the upper for a bit longer, I can try sending ammo again. It liked my handloads more than anything else.
It was shooting it decently when I pulled the barrel. Main issue was velocity loss made me struggle at 800 compared to the 6/6.5 CMs I was competing against. I tried bumping the powder charge to regain some velocity, but quickly ran into pressure signs. My load of 77 TMKs dropped from 2780 to 2690, not ideal at distance with any wind. |
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Btw if you bore scope that barrel, you will find dings all throughout the bore. My dumb ass accidentally shot steel pins from wet tumbling media down it. They were getting stuck in cases without me realizing.
I had it borescoped while at PVA and Josh was very surprised it was shooting as well as it was. |
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The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO.
And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA . |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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Originally Posted By JLS81: @SuperJlarge Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run? It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team. 24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT 24.5 grain Varget tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel |
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO. And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA . So far the IMI and Magtech have done well, and better in some barrels compared to others. I’m keeping track of the COAL and BTO measurements of the ammo tested so that forum members can try and replicate the loads or have a general starting point for seating depth. Thanks once again for your generous contribution of ammo to assist in this testing. My admiration for your generosity can’t be overstated. |