Posted: 10/17/2015 3:37:47 PM EDT
| Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of the Sig 716 DMR? As a member of my department's SRT / Sniper Team we recently several of these with 18" BBL's then topped them with Leupold MK IV LR/T 4.5-14X50MM scopes, Leupold Super High rings and Harris bipods. After receiving the rifles this past July we've found that several of them very inaccurate, producing cold bore shots in the neighborhood of three to five inches low then sporadic groups rarely any better than two inches. These shots and subsequent groups are being produced by experienced law enforcement snipers from prone positions utilizing sandbags. Our department only authorizes the use of Federal Gold Match 168GR BTHP ammo which in the past has always performed exceptionally. Recently one of the rifles was returned to Sig who after an extended period of time returned the rifle, stating that they had fixed the problem, having found that the op rod in the gas system was bent and also installing an accu wedge into the lower receiver. From firsthand experience I can say plainly that this did not in any manner fix the accuracy issues. Extensive testing by our team members has revealed that not only our these rifles barrels extremely sensitive to temperature variations, we've also determined that projectiles being picked up by the bolt from a magazine are striking the rear area of the chamber, causing deformation and basically being rammed backwards into the casing. Needless to say there is a great deal of frustration on our part and significant doubt in Sig's ability or willingness to fix the issues or even admit that there are any. If anyone here has any suggestions as to what might be causing these issues our ears are open. |
| The story about how we came to purchase Sigs is a long and bureaucratic one. The long and short of it is that we wanted to transition from our fleet of worn out and seriously aging Remington bolt guns into a semi-auto .308. After an extensive testing process in which we got our hands on some excellent rifles the department opted to go with the Sigs being that they were by far the cheapest test. Govt low bid mentality at its best although well meaning. Its safe to say that we as a team had several other top choices (custom build from a local supplier, LWRC REPR, LMT) but cost basically held us to the Sig. |
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People here will chime in with pro or anti sig posts soon enough but as for Sig rifles and pistols and their QC call and ask any US Air Marshal about the decline (specifically pistols). I kind of avoid Sig but in the interest of fairness any one gun or batch can have issues. Maybe Sig CS can assist.
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| Im surprised that the LMT wasn't hitting the cost #s...were they configured with stainless barrels or the new light barrel extension? Based on the MWS platforms I have seen, they have all been VERY consistent and reliable (gen 2 or 3 pmags don't want to drop free from most though without some light sanding). |
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Yeah LMT would be a great alternative. I know a Federal Agency recently chose the Remington R-25 or whatever it's called as their new 308 gas gun and I'm scratching my head as to why... Gov firearms instructors are a different type. Hell look at the FBI solicitation for 9mm will the mall ninja requirements of every 5 rounds in the mag being visible or the "no finger grooves" clause...
Sorry I know this veered off target |
Your experience reflects what I'm going through with my 716. When I first got it, I was doing minute of pie plate with match ammo. I sent it back to the factory and I'm now getting 2 moa with match ammo. Sample target I got back from the factory was shot from a machine rest at 25 yards. All in one hole.  Ball ammo resembles shotgun patterns. I really wanted to like this gun. I've put a Geissle SSA-E trigger, tried different muzzle breaks, three different optics, two that are over $1500. Had their customer service tell me there is no accuracy guarantee with this model. It's little brother, the 516 does sub moa with most 69 grain ammo, moa or slightly greater with quality bulk ammo. It is a very accurate rifle. I have no idea what is wrong with the 716/308 platform, have tried hundreds of dollars different match ammo. There is something fundamentally wrong with the design. It feeds reliably with anything I throw at it. Yet I cannot get any accuracy out of it. Before anyone accuses me of being a sig hater, I own five of them. It is the least accurate rifle I ever owned. I will be trading it in as soon as I see something else that interests me. I am not putting another dime in this rifle, it is not worth it. |
thank you for that!!!!!!
| Youre experiencing exactly what we are. They sent us back a rifle and test target with less than 1 MOA groups but we noticed that they must have single fed each shot and did so from a vise as there were no marks on the inside of the chamber when we received a dirty gun back from them. Immediately upon firing the gun from magazines were started seeing noticeable markings on the bottom rear of the chamber where projectiles are striking it. This is inherently a poor design and absolutely nowhere near accurate much less a precision weapon. I for one am extremely disappointed in them. |
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Quoted:
Does anyone here have any experience or knowledge of the Sig 716 DMR? As a member of my department's SRT / Sniper Team we recently several of these with 18" BBL's then topped them with Leupold MK IV LR/T 4.5-14X50MM scopes, Leupold Super High rings and Harris bipods. After receiving the rifles this past July we've found that several of them very inaccurate, producing cold bore shots in the neighborhood of three to five inches low then sporadic groups rarely any better than two inches. These shots and subsequent groups are being produced by experienced law enforcement snipers from prone positions utilizing sandbags. Our department only authorizes the use of Federal Gold Match 168GR BTHP ammo which in the past has always performed exceptionally. Recently one of the rifles was returned to Sig who after an extended period of time returned the rifle, stating that they had fixed the problem, having found that the op rod in the gas system was bent and also installing an accu wedge into the lower receiver. From firsthand experience I can say plainly that this did not in any manner fix the accuracy issues. Extensive testing by our team members has revealed that not only our these rifles barrels extremely sensitive to temperature variations, we've also determined that projectiles being picked up by the bolt from a magazine are striking the rear area of the chamber, causing deformation and basically being rammed backwards into the casing. Needless to say there is a great deal of frustration on our part and significant doubt in Sig's ability or willingness to fix the issues or even admit that there are any. If anyone here has any suggestions as to what might be causing these issues our ears are open. That wild cold bore ... any chance you are pulling them out of a hard case that they were squeezed down into ? |
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No, our guns are carried in the trunk of a cruiser or SUV in a drag bag. Years ago Bennie Cooley shared his observation with me about sitting on a hard-case to close it. The pro-tip was that it warps a scoped rifle enough to move poi. Takes awhile for it to "uncoil" after letting the lid "spring off" when the case is opened. Your mo rules that out. |
| The hard cases are just way too bulky to keep in a cruiser or I would suspect that could be a possible cause. I appreciate the input. Really hate to sound like Im busting on Sig but the level of disappointment with these guns is significant. No offense but when testing began we touched base with LaRue but wait times were so great due to demand for the OBR that we couldn't get one to test nor could we even get an ETA on when one might be available for purchase. Subsequently we opted to test other models and the rest was history. Really wish that hadn't been the case. |
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The hard cases are just way too bulky to keep in a cruiser or I would suspect that could be a possible cause. I appreciate the input. Really hate to sound like Im busting on Sig but the level of disappointment with these guns is significant. No offense but when testing began we touched base with LaRue but wait times were so great due to demand for the OBR that we couldn't get one to test nor could we even get an ETA on when one might be available for purchase. Subsequently we opted to test other models and the rest was history. Really wish that hadn't been the case. Sorry about that, between the election and that murderous madman at Sandy Hook, our rifle bookings soared. Plus we were in the middle of putting finishing touches on our precision barrel factory, and we pulled the trigger on our MBT trigger factory, and built our polymer molding factory, and snuck in our Tranquilo suppressor shop along the way, and, well, you get the picture. We've gotten all that done and we're running smoothly, plus we just acquired a hardcharging Six-Sigma obsessed General Manager who's riddled with OCD ... our quiet GM search was code named 'Checkmate'. 
New GM is jamming us full of the latest and greatest in world class manufacturing ... yes sir, we're taking it up another couple of notches. So how many rifles did your department acquire ? ML |
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Sounds like things are progressing quickly. We purchased eight guns with intent on purchasing an additional 8 to finish outfitting the rest of the team. I for one will not recommend any further dealings with Sig unless they make some serious improvements. So you're sayin' 8 OBRs could fix this issue 
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Not to  but I should have posted this earlier. Kind of a red flag for accuracy or maybe not
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/29/czech-army-cancels-purchase-sig-716-meopta-optics/ ETA: wonder if your 716 Rifle was a send back or the low price was a result of ramp up in production from the Czech order |
| I cant make any excuses for them nor can I really find anything positive to say about Sig. Their gun is heavy, inaccurate, took forever to receive once it was ordered and their customer service has been a joke. After sending one gun back to Sig and their "custom shop" having it for in excess of two months it still shot between 1.60" plus groups and sometimes as bad a 3" or more. Their design is flawed and although they have good marketing that's about where it all goes south. Sig might make a fine handgun but their adventure into the precision rifle market is an utter failure in my experience. Help is on the way though. More to come. |
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I cant make any excuses for them nor can I really find anything positive to say about Sig. Their gun is heavy, inaccurate, took forever to receive once it was ordered and their customer service has been a joke. After sending one gun back to Sig and their "custom shop" having it for in excess of two months it still shot between 1.60" plus groups and sometimes as bad a 3" or more. Their design is flawed and although they have good marketing that's about where it all goes south. Sig might make a fine handgun but their adventure into the precision rifle market is an utter failure in my experience. Help is on the way though. More to come. The popcorn is ready.... Staying tuned! |
| We too just picked up a Sig 716DMR largely due to the price as the quality is just okay. We are a small department in Alaska and we have also found Sig is not who they use to be. We will just have to find a way to make this rifle work for us and with some luck we will not have to send it back to the Sig Factory, Anyone else out there looking for a precision department rifle should look past the Sig 716DMR. |
| Really sorry to hear your department wasted its money on the 716DMR. It was a huge mistake on our part and obviously you see why. To answer questions without getting too in depth yes, we are upgrading to LaRue's and I think it will end up being the best move our team has made in regards to firearms since Ive been in the department. Mark and his people have been incredibly easy to deal with and extremely willing to help. I cannot recommend he and his company enough. Hoping to have our rifles in hand in the coming weeks and will post updates when they arrive. Anyone in the shooting or tactical community who hasn't already done so would be very well served to spend a few extra bucks and give LaRue a call. |
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Really sorry to hear your department wasted its money on the 716DMR. It was a huge mistake on our part and obviously you see why. To answer questions without getting too in depth yes, we are upgrading to LaRue's and I think it will end up being the best move our team has made in regards to firearms since Ive been in the department. Mark and his people have been incredibly easy to deal with and extremely willing to help. I cannot recommend he and his company enough. Hoping to have our rifles in hand in the coming weeks and will post updates when they arrive. Anyone in the shooting or tactical community who hasn't already done so would be very well served to spend a few extra bucks and give LaRue a call. 
Awesome to hear! |
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Really sorry to hear your department wasted its money on the 716DMR. It was a huge mistake on our part and obviously you see why. To answer questions without getting too in depth yes, we are upgrading to LaRue's and I think it will end up being the best move our team has made in regards to firearms since Ive been in the department. Mark and his people have been incredibly easy to deal with and extremely willing to help. I cannot recommend he and his company enough. Hoping to have our rifles in hand in the coming weeks and will post updates when they arrive. Anyone in the shooting or tactical community who hasn't already done so would be very well served to spend a few extra bucks and give LaRue a call. I know this is an old thread but, I'm wondering how everything worked out for you? |
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Gentlemen,
I apologize for the delayed response but I'm happy to provide an update. Thankfully we as an agency have successfully rid ourselves of the headache that was the Sig 716 DMR. While the Sig would make a decent heavy caliber patrol rifle it in my experience is in no way, shape or form a precision weapon. We tried and tried to make them work but they simply aren't accurate enough to facilitate our needs much less pass a standard FBI Sniper Qualification in the hands of experienced LE Snipers. Having said that there is light at the end of the tunnel for us. Although bureaucracy and government procedures delayed the process we have made the move to LaRue. I anticipate our guys will have PredatOBR's with new Tranquilo suppressor's in our hands within the next week or two. Although I have yet to fire any of the weapons Ive seen them and they look incredible. I cannot say enough for the professionalism and courtesy Mark and all of his people have shown myself and my agency in getting us outfitted with the weapons and accessories that I have no doubt will take our shooters to the next level. I promise to have an update posted the minute we start putting rounds downrange. Until then please take my word and rest assured that if you're considering a LaRue product whether its a full blown rifle or something as simple as a scope mount or set of rings do yourself a favor and support a great American company who's sole focus is fulfilling the needs of serious shooters. LaRue has simply gone out of their way to make it happen for us and I cannot wait to get some trigger time with the new guns. Stay tuned. |
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I realize this is an older thread .... but...
I have to say... my friends 716 from about 6-8 months ago.... could not reliably feed even a variety of ball ammo. It was not specific to which side of the mag it was fed from No Kidding... it would mash the heck out of the tip .... jamming the tip into what ever flat edge was there . ( I don't remember exactly what surface, but it was just below the "M4" type cuts )
He sent it back to SIG twice.... first time they said it was fine... and did nothing but test fire it. Second time he sent it back with the requested Magpul mags he was using... all they did was polish the feed ramps. I fully admit, it instantly made me NOT want a SIG in .308. |
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Quoted:
Gentlemen, I apologize for the delayed response but I'm happy to provide an update. Thankfully we as an agency have successfully rid ourselves of the headache that was the Sig 716 DMR. While the Sig would make a decent heavy caliber patrol rifle it in my experience is in no way, shape or form a precision weapon. We tried and tried to make them work but they simply aren't accurate enough to facilitate our needs much less pass a standard FBI Sniper Qualification in the hands of experienced LE Snipers. Having said that there is light at the end of the tunnel for us. Although bureaucracy and government procedures delayed the process we have made the move to LaRue. I anticipate our guys will have PredatOBR's with new Tranquilo suppressor's in our hands within the next week or two. Although I have yet to fire any of the weapons Ive seen them and they look incredible. I cannot say enough for the professionalism and courtesy Mark and all of his people have shown myself and my agency in getting us outfitted with the weapons and accessories that I have no doubt will take our shooters to the next level. I promise to have an update posted the minute we start putting rounds downrange. Until then please take my word and rest assured that if you're considering a LaRue product whether its a full blown rifle or something as simple as a scope mount or set of rings do yourself a favor and support a great American company who's sole focus is fulfilling the needs of serious shooters. LaRue has simply gone out of their way to make it happen for us and I cannot wait to get some trigger time with the new guns. Stay tuned. Out of curiosity, did your department have any other models of the 716, or only the DMR? If you had the other models, did you have the same issues with them too? |
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Quoted:
I realize this is an older thread .... but... I have to say... my friends 716 from about 6-8 months ago.... could not reliably feed even a variety of ball ammo. It was not specific to which side of the mag it was fed from No Kidding... it would mash the heck out of the tip .... jamming the tip into what ever flat edge was there . ( I don't remember exactly what surface, but it was just below the "M4" type cuts )
He sent it back to SIG twice.... first time they said it was fine... and did nothing but test fire it. Second time he sent it back with the requested Magpul mags he was using... all they did was polish the feed ramps. I fully admit, it instantly made me NOT want a SIG in .308. From what I've been able to tell, SIG went their own route in engineering this rifle. There are little nuances that I'm not smart enough to explain or understand. An SR25/DPMS bore guide does not fit in the upper - there's a detent pin holding the dust cover pin in place The bore axis itself seems odd - that or the barrel extension and bore axis seem odd. My old 716 ONLY fed from Pmags. C-Products, LaRue, and KAC metal mags all jammed up hard - the rounds would nose dive before hitting the ramp. |
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Quoted:
Gentlemen, I apologize for the delayed response but I'm happy to provide an update. Thankfully we as an agency have successfully rid ourselves of the headache that was the Sig 716 DMR. While the Sig would make a decent heavy caliber patrol rifle it in my experience is in no way, shape or form a precision weapon. We tried and tried to make them work but they simply aren't accurate enough to facilitate our needs much less pass a standard FBI Sniper Qualification in the hands of experienced LE Snipers. Having said that there is light at the end of the tunnel for us. Although bureaucracy and government procedures delayed the process we have made the move to LaRue. I anticipate our guys will have PredatOBR's with new Tranquilo suppressor's in our hands within the next week or two. Although I have yet to fire any of the weapons Ive seen them and they look incredible. I cannot say enough for the professionalism and courtesy Mark and all of his people have shown myself and my agency in getting us outfitted with the weapons and accessories that I have no doubt will take our shooters to the next level. I promise to have an update posted the minute we start putting rounds downrange. Until then please take my word and rest assured that if you're considering a LaRue product whether its a full blown rifle or something as simple as a scope mount or set of rings do yourself a favor and support a great American company who's sole focus is fulfilling the needs of serious shooters. LaRue has simply gone out of their way to make it happen for us and I cannot wait to get some trigger time with the new guns. Stay tuned. This thread was mentioned in AR Discussions so, was just trying to see how the Larue's have worked out for you so far? |