Posted: 11/7/2007 2:52:13 PM EDT
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What's the smallest caliber you would carry for defense against grizzlie? Can a .308/7.62 do the job? I'm interested in an AR for defense, and as lightweight defense against grizz. |
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I would't use a .308 on a grizzly.Go with a levergun in 45-70 with buffalo bore or garrett ammo.You need a sludge hammer close in.Buy a marlin guide gun in 45-70. www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp |
| 308 is fine for Blackies, but not grizzlies. +1 on the larger bore. I know there will be a lot of guys chiming in that the '06 has killed plenty, and they are right. But if you are looking to keep in the AR platform, go with the 458 SOCOM / 50 Beowolf and I'm not sure if they have the energy to penetrate. |
| I don't understand why you would want the smallest possible round for defense against grizzly. To me defense means that you have accidentally come between a mother bear and her cub, or a bear is fully committed to turn you into bear poo, and you want to put an end to it in short order, not sniping a bear grazing 100 yards away. Consensus seem to be .44 mag or larger double action revolver, or a 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with slugs. |
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Smallest caliber for defense against a bear? If you need to stop a large bear in a hurry, the smallest I would want to carry would be a .416 Rigby. But, for hunting where you are the predator, the minimum for black bear would be a .308, but for brown bears I think the .338 win mag would be minimum, but a .375 H&H would be preferable. If you want someting in an AR type rifle, then you might look at one of the AR10 or AR180 in .308. But then again I would consider this to be marginal for defense. |
| I have been doing a bit of reading about hunting Grizzly and guides preach the virtues of the .338 Mag to some end but especially the .375 H&H Mag. After reading some of the stories they tell I would look to the 45-70 guide gun too. I don't think you are going to get the kind of penetration you NEED out of the .458 or the .50Beo on a consistent basis. Please keep in mind that I have not yet engaged a Grizzly, and everything I say here is based completely upon my own research. To be entirely honest with you, if I lived in bear country I would want a light gun, that operated 100% of the time, and packed an incredible wallop when I needed it. In my opinion The Alaskan Copilot in .50 Alaskan fits the bill. If I was in a hunting situation I would probably go for a bolt action magazine fed .375H&H Mag, namely because that is an "old friend of mine" as far as calibers go and I like a follow up shot capacity if I botch it or if the bear isn't willing to cooperate. Maybe something like the Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker with a brake. I will do some looking at the penetration capabilities of the .458 and .50Beo and check back in later. |
Black bears will fall with far less than a 308 win. I have seen avg size black bears go down after taking a couple of 9mm FMJ rounds. 357 sig does a real nice job on black bears. |
| The most bullets a grizzley ever took that I've heard of was (12) 7mm rem mag bullets and (4) 38 specials to die. This was in alaska a few years when a 1600 lbs grizl;ey ate a hiker before it got shot. I've almost been dragged out of a tent once by a bear this year but woke up in time to scare it away. Its nose was on my face then I woke up chasing it. its not fun. A lot of people die more by having a bear maul them in a tent instead of a bear charging them. If I was to use a gun for bear defense I think I'd go with a Ak-47 using FMJ mixed with SP ammo. Or try something in 7.62mm/30 caliber. Remeber, you need something that can penetrate 6" of fat and 8" of meat and organs. |
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Have you ever seen a full grown Brown Bear??? They are BIG!!! I packed a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casul and I felt under gunned!! The best beer gun is a 12 guage pump loaded with slugs. If you actually have to use a gun to keep from becoming bear poop the shots will be at very close range. The energy that a 12 guage slug has at point blank range is huge (I forget the #'s) That is what you want in that situation. Most shots will be at a charging bear and they will be straight on facing you. Brown bears are built like tanks! Huge dense bones, thick hair and fat layers and heavy muscle. You want a projectile that will break bone and tear through all the heavy tissue. Bears are tough and it takes a good hard solid hit to put one down. my gun of choice would be the Remington 870 HD with a bright ass tactical light (for night time tent raiding by a bear) The first round would be #4 bird shot (for deterence), then a full tube of slugs. |
Since I was moose hunting, and couldn't choose the day that I would get charged, I happened to be carrying my .300 Wtby with 200gr Nosler Partition handloads when this one charged me! Whoever says that a .223 will be sufficient and that you have 30 rounds to pump into a charging bear is STUPID and has NEVER been charged by one! The only way I would shoot a Griz with a .223 is if it was all I had or if one had me pinned in a tree or a corner! I've been bluff charged several times and even when I'm expecting it and have my .375 RUM with me, I still about shit my pants!     This old boy was shot at less than 5 yards in full charge. I hit him right between the eyes. He rolled into a ball and I jacked another shell in and shot him again in the shoulder (breaking it) as he rolled by! He was over 9 feet and his claws were over 6" long! To the OP....If you want to buy an AR-15, go for it. But don't try to justify the purchase by saying it's for bear protection! Get a shotgun with some badass slugs or a magnum rifle chambered in something similar if not bigger than a .375......  Remington 700 XCR w/20" barrel, chambered in .375 RUM - Clint |
You want defense against a Griz in WA, get bear spray. We have so few of them here that you just about have to go looking for them to find one. Shoot a Griz here and the liberals will hunt you down. But if you go out into the woods with at least a 44 mag you should be good. I have yet to see an animal in the woods in Washington that was to big for a 44. |
that should do the job. I used a .300 savage on this one  as always on big game shot placement is a factor. there is not enough monee printed for me to try a .223 on a griz. unless of course it was the last option.  ETA: I will NOT use a .44 handgun again. (bad experience...no make that two), and I will not use a shotty again either. |
I coulda took that little ass bear with my AR. He dont look 9feet to me. |
I assume you are joking!  - Clint |
| I thought the .458 SOCOM was the new 45-70. Between 250- 600 grain bullets moving along at over 2000 ft/sec in the lighter loads sounds like it could break bones get some penetration. And 15 of 'em in semi-auto might not be to far this side of crazy for bear would it? |
Looks like he got his nails done in the hood  .
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when i was doing bear research. i carried a 338. there is nothing wrong with a good .338. flat shooting combined with a powerhouse up close round. |
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We had a large brown bear teaching its cub that an easy way to get food is to tear a wall (yes a wall) off our hunting cabin and knock over our fridge to see if there's any good food inside. Then it tore open our food locker and then licked the inside of the oven and microwave. The bear was later taken on a return trip to our cabin with a 870 supermag pump shotgun firing slugs when she began to charge us for being in "her" food storage facility. That was one of the fatest f*cking bears I've ever seen, she must have been breaking into cabins all summer long and eating people food instead of bear food. I have a $20 bet with my brother that when we go up there this summer after the snow melts the cub will have followed in mom's foot-steps if it survived the winter. |
Maybe when it is full grown. My guess would be much closer to the 125 mark.
That pic is after gutting. Weight was before. I move heavy things all day, by hand, for work, so I'd know. I can't MAKE you believe me, of course, but then you didn't have to drag it out either, didja?
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He never said AR15, so AR10 would be fine. Having said that I would go with 50 Beo or 458 Socom. |
From what I have read the .458 SOCOM is comparable to the 45-70. So, after knowing that I would go with the AR platform because you can have 12 rounds of .458 SOCOM in a semi auto firearm. Also I don't understand the pump shot gun thing as well. I mean I have one, but my Remington 1100 12gage loaded with federal rifled 3" magnum slugs I would think is the way to go. Because again you have a 8 rounds semi auto. |
200lb no way that looks like a young cub
