Posted: 6/1/2016 9:48:03 AM EDT
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Short of putting up a tower, or tall mast, I think I have covered most of my antenna options consistant with the home site. Lots of trees, but only clear immediately around the house.
I currently have a ladder fed 160m FWL that follows the clear perimeter around the house @ about 60', a coax to ladder fed 80m FWL pretty much centered above the house @ about 55' (it replaced an 80m OCFD), a fan dipole w/40m, 20m, 17m, 15m, 12m & 10m coverage @ about 40', an MFJ-1796 converted to rotatable horizontal @ about 25', and a Hustler 6BTV w/outriggers for 12m & 17m with 32 near field radials. This is where I'm thinking an amplifier may be the most cost effective next incremental improvement for my outgoing signal, with a package price tag somewhere between $1.2k - $3k for amp & maybe a tuner. I have been looking at the various options out there for 500 - 1200 watts, mostly being new Ameritron tube & solid state units, not so much the used market (not skilled in evaluating/fixing potential issues). Also thinking about maybe using separate transmit/receive antennae (the TS-590S has a dedicated RX port). What are the hive thoughts on things like cost benefit considerations regarding power level, tube vs transister, tuner/no tuner (or manual vs auto tune), etc.? Nick |
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Solid state is what i would recomend, also look at what the gain of your antenna has. This may help you with decisions. Buy once cry once.. Compare the products with eham reviews and it may help with your decision.. I have had good luck with the ldg autotuners, so far both are solid tuners. Definitely pick up an antenna alalyzer to help with any issues that arise..
good luck.. Prosise |
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Quoted: Buy once cry once..
Please tell me this GD style attitude isn't starting to permeate into this forum. So you go out and buy a multi thousand dollar brand new solid state amp, because that's the cool thing to do around here. Then, you spend more money to get 220v run to the shack. And then you fire it up and it causes your neighbor horrible RFI issues that they refuse to cooperate on. You value your peace more than your ability to operate QRO, so now what? You sell it for a loss. Or, you could just pick up a good used AL811 or SB200 for a couple hundred, figure out everything first and subsequently sell it (to trade up or go back to barefoot) without a loss. Don't forget, your typical station will require a lot of additional upgrades to little things (like lightning arrestors, Baluns and what not) that will require additional money and effort to support an amplifier. The amp is not the sole outlay of money. |
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Ham radio is an expensive hobby. You certainly do get what you pay for and "buy once cry once" is sound advice.
Buying a 40 year old Heathkit tube amps may appeal to some because of price, but it's buyer beware with vintage gear. Quality replacement tubes for amps like the Ameritron and Heathkit are hard to come by. Many new hams fall prey to unscrupulous sellers and get screwed. Having said that IMHO a solid state amp is superior for quick band changes and ease of operation. The first 500 watts makes all of the difference in the world and amps in this range run just fine on 120vac. I would recommend a ALS-600 solid state amp and they can be had between $600 to $900 used. They are a solid amp and compared to the Heathkit or Ameritron tube amp. I think the ALS-600 is great value. |
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Upgrades are part of my considerations. Lightning protection, other than ground system bonding, currently pretty much consists of spark gap & provisions for physical disconnect of the open wire feeds at the entry box. There are also high value resistors installed as static drains on all feeds.
I built the ladderline & FWL's w/ 14 awg thhn, the fan is 12 awg romex conductors. The homebrew chokes on all lines are type 61 ferrite cores wrapped w/ solid either 14 or 12 awg transmission line pairs, so probably OK unless I see indications of overheating. The homebrew current baluns (4:1 & 9:1) will probably need upgrading both for ferrite core mass and windings (I believe they are either 16 or 18 awg stranded). The one 6 position switch in use is rated for 1k cw. I would definately need a new dummy load as the current on is only rated for 300w. The Hustler, fan & modified 1796 have the potential for use without a tuner, with all phone bands < 2:1 except for 40m on the 1796 & 80m on the Hustler (where it is a 50khz sweet spot centered on 3.900). I would need a tuner for more of 80m or for using the loops for transmitting. ETA: My radio spot is in the basement & I have a subpanel there with a 220 feed, so adding breakers and drops is no problem, BTDT. Nick |
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Quoted:
Please tell me this GD style attitude isn't starting to permeate into this forum. So you go out and buy a multi thousand dollar brand new solid state amp, because that's the cool thing to do around here. Then, you spend more money to get 220v run to the shack. And then you fire it up and it causes your neighbor horrible RFI issues that they refuse to cooperate on. You value your peace more than your ability to operate QRO, so now what? You sell it for a loss. Or, you could just pick up a good used AL811 or SB200 for a couple hundred, figure out everything first and subsequently sell it (to trade up or go back to barefoot) without a loss. Don't forget, your typical station will require a lot of additional upgrades to little things (like lightning arrestors, Baluns and what not) that will require additional money and effort to support an amplifier. The amp is not the sole outlay of money. Quoted:
Quoted: Buy once cry once..
Please tell me this GD style attitude isn't starting to permeate into this forum. So you go out and buy a multi thousand dollar brand new solid state amp, because that's the cool thing to do around here. Then, you spend more money to get 220v run to the shack. And then you fire it up and it causes your neighbor horrible RFI issues that they refuse to cooperate on. You value your peace more than your ability to operate QRO, so now what? You sell it for a loss. Or, you could just pick up a good used AL811 or SB200 for a couple hundred, figure out everything first and subsequently sell it (to trade up or go back to barefoot) without a loss. Don't forget, your typical station will require a lot of additional upgrades to little things (like lightning arrestors, Baluns and what not) that will require additional money and effort to support an amplifier. The amp is not the sole outlay of money. No offense taken on my part, I think you get what you pay for. Im very slow in pulling the trigger on just about any purchase, which I usually have to study in great depths before making a purchase. I don't quite follow your statement about rfi in your neighbors house being your problem. Techically its their problem if they have rfi with your signals.. Some more experienced hams can explain this better than I can. Now if you want to help them resolve their issue that would be on the level.. That's what I would do.. I think that's a good way of dealing with the problem.. I also think solid state is the way to go, I am using a Icom IC-2kl 500 watt solid state amp from 2002 which works like a champ.. Good luck & take care Prosise |
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Techically its their problem if they have rfi with your signals.. Some more experienced hams can explain this better than I can. Now if you want to help them resolve their issue that would be on the level.. That's what I would do.. I think that's a good way of dealing with the problem.. Sure, by the letter of the law (meaning your station complies with part 97, including good engineering practices, RF exposure evaluation and minimum power to facilitate communications) if you are causing interference, it is technically the fault of the part 15 device and is up to the owner of the part 15 device to rectify the issue (note the exception laid out in 97.121, though not likely to be an issue nowadays) With analog TV and copper telephone networks giving way to DTV and fiber, a lot of the old RFI culprits are no longer a factor. However, there are still a lot of devices that may present an issue when faced with the 7-12 dB increase in power presented by an amp, so... I don't know about you, but when the guy next door starts getting woken up by his security system (that he's under contract for the next two years) every time you key up I have serious doubts that a simple "sorry buddy, your security system is poorly designed and must accept any interference..." is going to be the end of the issue. Is 2-3 S units really worth a war with the neighbors? I know this was my primary concern long before I purchased my amp, and I was 100% ready and willing to throw it up on QRZ should I get any substantial complaints, particularly from certain neighbors. Mainly the nosy guy that retired from the county - he's got enough time and friends and not enough to occupy himself that I'm sure he could have one of his old buddies in the building department come snooping around every time I fire up a circular saw if he wanted to, or whatever he could do to make my life miserable. You never know what sort of jackass you'll run into nowadays, and since I do have to live here it's just not worth it to me to force the issue. Fortunately, I've not had any issues so it looks like I'm in the clear. Of course it's your* house, your* money, your* life and your* neighbors - do what you* want. *Spoken rhetorically, I'm not trying to lecture anyone but you know where I'm going. |
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Looking at what's out there as new items, I think I'm inclined towards the ALS-600s (the one with the lighter weight power supply). With the add-on interface, it can band-hop and automatically follow the TS-590S as it changes bands. I could save a couple hundred by going with the ALS-500M (which can use the same interface) plus a 75 amp switcher, but I'd lose the SWR meter & an outboard meter would run $100 - $150, so kind of a wash there.
If decide to go ahead and pick up a 600W capable tuner, the MFJ-994B has an available interface add-on for the TS-590S which lets it follow the Kenwood's AT-300 port signals, so it looks pretty attractive. As a side note, if the AD5X mod for the ARB-704 (Ameritron keying interface) in conjunction with the MFJ-994B can be adapted for the ARI-500 (Ameritron keying + band switching), then it would let the amp automatically go into bypass mode during any tuning operation without a need to press the physical switch. The LDG AT-600Pro II doesn't list a Kenwood interface option, so it doesn't look as attractive. I probably won't be pursuing this in that short a time frame, but there is a possibility that VW is going to be passing out some "sorry charlie" cash as part of a settlement for the TDI test defeat flap (we bought a 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI last year). If so, this upgrade might become more viable, sooner. With the ALS-600S w/10m mod + MFJ-994B + interfaces for both+ dummy load, it looks like the total would be roughly $2100. Nick |
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Look at the dB and S-unit difference in going from 100 to 500 Watts, then from 500 to 1500 Watts and make your choice accordingly.
I got along just fine with an AL-811 when I was doing SSB nets on 80 and 20, but I grew up with vacuum tubes and am comfortable with them. Having said that, good firebottles are becoming more and more difficult to obtain, so plan accordingly. If you do decide on the vacuum tube route, I'd recommend something using the 3-500Z. |
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Look at the dB and S-unit difference in going from 100 to 500 Watts, then from 500 to 1500 Watts and make your choice accordingly. I got along just fine with an AL-811 when I was doing SSB nets on 80 and 20, but I grew up with vacuum tubes and am comfortable with them. Having said that, good firebottles are becoming more and more difficult to obtain, so plan accordingly. If you do decide on the vacuum tube route, I'd recommend something using the 3-500Z. Frank I respect your opinion - can you summarize this for me? |
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Frank I respect your opinion - can you summarize this for me? Quoted:
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Look at the dB and S-unit difference in going from 100 to 500 Watts, then from 500 to 1500 Watts and make your choice accordingly. I got along just fine with an AL-811 when I was doing SSB nets on 80 and 20, but I grew up with vacuum tubes and am comfortable with them. Having said that, good firebottles are becoming more and more difficult to obtain, so plan accordingly. If you do decide on the vacuum tube route, I'd recommend something using the 3-500Z. Frank I respect your opinion - can you summarize this for me? Here's a pretty simple explanation: http://www.hamuniverse.com/linearamp.html |
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Looking at what's out there as new items, I think I'm inclined towards the ALS-600s (the one with the lighter weight power supply). With the add-on interface, it can band-hop and automatically follow the TS-590S as it changes bands. I could save a couple hundred by going with the ALS-500M (which can use the same interface) plus a 75 amp switcher, but I'd lose the SWR meter & an outboard meter would run $100 - $150, so kind of a wash there. If decide to go ahead and pick up a 600W capable tuner, the MFJ-994B has an available interface add-on for the TS-590S which lets it follow the Kenwood's AT-300 port signals, so it looks pretty attractive. As a side note, if the AD5X mod for the ARB-704 (Ameritron keying interface) in conjunction with the MFJ-994B can be adapted for the ARI-500 (Ameritron keying + band switching), then it would let the amp automatically go into bypass mode during any tuning operation without a need to press the physical switch. The LDG AT-600Pro II doesn't list a Kenwood interface option, so it doesn't look as attractive. I probably won't be pursuing this in that short a time frame, but there is a possibility that VW is going to be passing out some "sorry charlie" cash as part of a settlement for the TDI test defeat flap (we bought a 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI last year). If so, this upgrade might become more viable, sooner. With the ALS-600S w/10m mod + MFJ-994B + interfaces for both+ dummy load, it looks like the total would be roughly $2100. Nick Nick, If you are going to spend $2100 on amp stuff, don't waste your money on an ALS-600 with all the trimmings. I went through the exact same analysis and bought an Elecraft KPA500. A better product in every possible way. Works on both 6 and 10M. Its built-in serial interface will connect to your Kenwood. The kit (glue and screw, no soldering) is $2100. I actually got my KPA500 used for $1800, but used ones are rarer than hen's teeth, and for good reason. This amp is bulletproof. I have made every dumb mistake imaginable and it just laughs (well, beeps  ) every time. It is small, quiet, with good built-in metering and happily will run off of a 15A 120V outlet at full power. And so transparent in its operation that it is like simply having a 500W radio.
In terms of watts/dollar you are never going to beat tubes, but solid state is the way to go if you can afford it. |
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If you are going to spend $2100 on amp stuff, don't waste your money on an ALS-600 with all the trimmings. I went through the exact same analysis and bought an Elecraft KPA500. A better product in every possible way. Works on both 6 and 10M. Its built-in serial interface will connect to your Kenwood. The kit (glue and screw, no soldering) is $2100. I actually got my KPA500 used for $1800, but used ones are rarer than hen's teeth, and for good reason. This amp is bulletproof. I have made every dumb mistake imaginable and it just laughs (well, beeps ) every time. It is small, quiet, with good built-in metering and happily will run off of a 15A 120V outlet at full power. And so transparent in its operation that it is like simply having a 500W radio.
In terms of watts/dollar you are never going to beat tubes, but solid state is the way to go if you can afford it. I couldn't agree more. And when I added the amp I actually ended up with an issue where I could trip my own alarm system. So I had to reposition the antenna farther from the house. |
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The KPA-500 looks really nice, but will have to see how the finances work out as it adds about $600 compared to the ALS + parts. I'm pretty set on including a tuner in the package at this point, so it that has an impact on the budget as well. Leaning towards an auto-tuner, probably the LDG-AT600ProII if not going the MFJ route, the KAT-500 looks nice but would bump the total by about $200 or so compared to the other two. If it turns out $3K is as doable as $2K, the Elecraft items look really attractive.
Nick |
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I keep wanting to order a KAT500, but I can't get Elecraft to answer my emails about what power level it can handle in digi modes. I have sent about 4 emails about this to them. I have the LDG600 and it does fine, but do look at and respect the limits on digi modes if you use them. |
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I think 600 watts at a 10:1 SWR is good.
http://www.elecraft.com/KAT500/kat500.html Check the specs on the link above. |
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Hate to say it, but as much as I like the KPA500, the KAT500 is a rip. Get a MFJ tuner and be done with it. Yeah, well...like I said...the fact that they won't answer the fooking question is keeping me away. I went thru the manual and the specs again and find no mention of limitations for AM or digi modes. The LDG 600 goes to 250W for digi and AM for $370 (list) The LDG 1000 goes to 400W for digi for $540 (list) I have run the 600 at 400W RTTY out of the KPA500 for hours without any ill effects (that I have detected). |
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Yeah, well...like I said...the fact that they won't answer the fooking question is keeping me away. I went thru the manual and the specs again and find no mention of limitations for AM or digi modes. The LDG 600 goes to 250W for digi and AM for $370 (list) The LDG 1000 goes to 400W for digi for $540 (list) I have run the 600 at 400W RTTY out of the KPA500 for hours without any ill effects (that I have detected). Quoted:
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Hate to say it, but as much as I like the KPA500, the KAT500 is a rip. Get a MFJ tuner and be done with it. Yeah, well...like I said...the fact that they won't answer the fooking question is keeping me away. I went thru the manual and the specs again and find no mention of limitations for AM or digi modes. The LDG 600 goes to 250W for digi and AM for $370 (list) The LDG 1000 goes to 400W for digi for $540 (list) I have run the 600 at 400W RTTY out of the KPA500 for hours without any ill effects (that I have detected). I bought my AT-1000 pro II with external meter for $425 used. It replaced an AT-600 pro that I never had any problems with, but read about some issues on eham and proactively replaced it before I had any issues. I now use the AT-1000 pro II with my G5RV and I am very happy with it. Even the eham reviews are very positive. The external watt meter is a little slow for tuning up, but once I figured it out it works great. Instead of keying down and looking for the needle to move, the best way that I found is to unkey briefly (<1 second), adjust amp, key up again. Needle responds faster this way for whatever reason. |
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If you need an answer about the KAT500 use that antiquted device called a telephone and speak to someone at Elecraft.
If you look at the specifications you will find that the KAT500 will handle 1000 watts over a 3:1 SWR range (600 watts over a 10:1 SWR range) - and that is from 3 to 30 MHz. At the 1.8 to 2 MHz frequency range, the 600 watt level is reduced to a 5:1 SWR for low impedances (still 10:1 for high impedances). At 1000 watts the rating is still for a 3:1 SWR over an impedance range of 16 to 150 ohms. |
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You might also take a look at the Acom A1010.
It tolerates 3:1 SWRs comfortably, so you may not need a companion tuner. |
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The only amp I am interested in adding right now is my A-4S Check out Mosley Antennas. They are built with quality materials and IMHO a much better antenna compared to the MFJ owned Cushcraft. http://www.mosley-electronics.com/ |
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Check out Mosley Antennas. They are built with quality materials and IMHO a much better antenna compared to the MFJ owned Cushcraft. http://www.mosley-electronics.com/ Quoted:
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The only amp I am interested in adding right now is my A-4S Check out Mosley Antennas. They are built with quality materials and IMHO a much better antenna compared to the MFJ owned Cushcraft. http://www.mosley-electronics.com/ That is possible...but I already own the A-4S. |
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That is possible...but I already own the A-4S. Quoted:
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The only amp I am interested in adding right now is my A-4S Check out Mosley Antennas. They are built with quality materials and IMHO a much better antenna compared to the MFJ owned Cushcraft. http://www.mosley-electronics.com/ That is possible...but I already own the A-4S. I see....Mosley is the St. Louis area where I live and if I had the room I would put one up. |
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I see....Mosley is the St. Louis area where I live and if I had the room I would put one up. Quoted:
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The only amp I am interested in adding right now is my A-4S Check out Mosley Antennas. They are built with quality materials and IMHO a much better antenna compared to the MFJ owned Cushcraft. http://www.mosley-electronics.com/ That is possible...but I already own the A-4S. I see....Mosley is the St. Louis area where I live and if I had the room I would put one up. 
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My first amp was the Ameritron AL-811H (4 tubes, 800 w), probably the best selling amp on the market. Good amp, but
good tubes are rarer than hens' teeth. Truthfully, the AL-811 (3 tubes, 600 w) will sound to others just as strong. But my reason for buying the 811H was so I could back it off to 500 watts or so, and not strain the amp, the tubes lasting longer. Seeing the continual ads from other users of these amps, and the fine Heathkit 200's and 220's, others, wanting tubes I finally saw the light. The tube situation will get no better. I had three sets of four each Svetlana (good Russian made) 572B tubes. I sold amp, which had a set of good 811A tubes, and the three sets of Svetlana tubes, and was within $200 for a new Ameritron ALS-600S solid state amp. That is a 600 w amp. No spare tubes needed. It has all kinds of built in protection. If anything is amiss, it just won't transmit and will not hurt itself. I'm using an LDG AT-1000 auto tuner. This is a 1000 w tuner used in conjunction with a 600 w amp, which I run at 500 w. It sounds the same as my previous tube amp, and is all just a worry free setup. Should have gotten the solid state amp from the beginning. |