Posted: 7/8/2014 8:36:29 AM EDT
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So, let's say you wanted to set up a "neighborhood watch" style comms system that would let you work together with your neighbors in an emergency where more traditional comms were not working. The neighbors aren't going to take any steps to prepare, get licensed or anything else. They'll reliably volunteer once the emergency is upon them; but until then nothing. The more mobile units you have, the more people you can get involved. However, you'll bear the entire cost of setup and you'll be the only one licensed or who does any preparation.
What kind of plan would you develop with a top end budget of $250? |
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Getting ready to defend Silver Hills against the MZBs?
TEOTWAWKI? Chicom radios like Baofengs are pretty capable across a number of services/freqs. but generally require a license. Regular neighborhood watch/non-life-and-limb-emergencies? FRS maybe? How big of a neighborhood? Terrain? Building construction? Power on or off? |
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MURS? Foxxz I am disappointed.
The only real answer is a wifi mesh network. Nodes placed throughout the community. This will require topography mapping and fernel zone analysis. Parabolic dish would be best for long haul links with omni links scattered throughout. There are plenty of wifi walkie talkie apps available so the wolverines can use their smart phones or tablets. Or just use MURS |
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You might be able to get a commercial or public safety Part 90 license. If you do, you can legally use the Baofeng $19 or $29 radios. Otherwise you're stuck on MURS.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=licensing&id=industrial_business http://transition.fcc.gov/Forms/Form601/601.pdf Also, isn't encryption allowed on Part 95 and Part 90? 
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No end of the world scenarios. Mostly routine things like coordinating security and assistance after a natural disaster (tornado, storms, and fire being the most common threats around here). Cellphones normally would work great for 99% of that; but it seems that based on past events those systems occasionally are overwhelmed by traffic or damaged. Something simple that would let neighbors communicate with each other. The area is about 1 mile square and is mixed rural/suburb development. Farms on the north side. Big powerline easement on the west. Nothing but suburbs to the south and east. We've got one or two ham licensees in the neighborhoods to the south of us as well. Not looking for extended periods without power; but it would be nice to have something you could leave with an elderly neighbor when the power goes out - especially with temps up in the 100s for 40-60 days of summer here.
Basically, what is a good radio system that you would (and could afford to) loan to the neighbors you liked in the event more traditional forms of contacting them were either not working or impractical? What type of equipment and licensing would you need (aside from what you could loan out to the neighbors) that could make that network more effective? |
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Size of the neighborhood?
Cause if it's like mine then some FRS or GRMS bubble pack radios would be fine. With a couple of cheap HTs you could even rig up a basic repeater on an 'emergency' channel that would could broadcast to one of those with a license. (i.e. receive on 70cm, but broadcast out on 2m) This assumes you have people who are monitoring the channel and can respond with help (or at least direct others). |
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MURS or, sounds like even better would be a sort of FRS mesh network....
for example someone on the south side of town may not be able to talk to the north side- but someone in the middle hears both - not the best but it'd work MURS would cover the 1sqmi... FRS may get spotty |
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unwieldy for non-users... you want something that someone can have sitting on the counter Quoted:
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SSB CB? unwieldy for non-users... you want something that someone can have sitting on the counter as initially posted, MURS is my choice...may be a budget buster with the Part Accepted rigs  hence the CB recommendation
ETA: MURS if you can swing it TSP Thread Link |
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as initially posted, MURS is my choice...may be a budget buster with the Part Accepted rigs hence the CB recommendation
ETA: MURS if you can swing it TSP Thread Link Quoted:
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SSB CB? unwieldy for non-users... you want something that someone can have sitting on the counter as initially posted, MURS is my choice...may be a budget buster with the Part Accepted rigs hence the CB recommendation
ETA: MURS if you can swing it TSP Thread Link 
how about families bucking up for a GMRS license? no test.... cheap radios and they'd work well |
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unwieldy for non-users... you want something that someone can have sitting on the counter Quoted:
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SSB CB? unwieldy for non-users... you want something that someone can have sitting on the counter Plus with his budget - that would be 2 radios, compared to the 20 FRS radios he could purchase for the same amount. |
Why not launch your own satellite network? it will have a worldwide coverage. I'm surprised no one suggested this yet.
# 1 rule in engineering is to keep it simple. A pack or FRS radios from Wallmart will have a range of 1/2 to 1 mile which is a typical size of an average neighborhood. Make sure all the radios are of the same brand and accept the same batteries (AA size is the easiest to obtain and have in stock). Don't rely on rechargeable batteries because they will fail when you most need them. Keep a box of batteries on hand and use up or rotate every 5 years (quality brand batteries). Most FRS radios are easy to operate for an average user and you can easily add more radios if needed without having to program or set-up anything. You need to tell us what communication range you are looking for? OP. I was laughing at your signature. |
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OP. I was laughing at your signature. The better you understand Russian, the funnier it is (I think anyway). On range, I'm just looking for something that can cover the neighborhood - an actual effective 0.5-1 mile range would be just fine, especially if we are talking from inside one house by hand talkie to another mobile unit inside a different house. |
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budget for entire neighborhood $250 or per household? if so, blister-pack...srry OP was thinking it was per house  $250 is the entire budget, absent some really compelling and impressive capability that a more expensive system mght provide. These are just mainly to let friendly neighbors keep in touch. None of them are interested in planning or preparation, but it is always nice to have friends on call in an emergency. |
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MURS or, sounds like even better would be a sort of FRS mesh network.... Google gives me nothing. Please elaborate. for example someone on the south side of town may not be able to talk to the north side- but someone in the middle hears both - not the best but it'd work MURS would cover the 1sqmi... FRS may get spotty Please tell me more. |
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$250 is the entire budget, absent some really compelling and impressive capability that a more expensive system mght provide. These are just mainly to let friendly neighbors keep in touch. None of them are interested in planning or preparation, but it is always nice to have friends on call in an emergency. Quoted:
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budget for entire neighborhood $250 or per household? if so, blister-pack...srry OP was thinking it was per house $250 is the entire budget, absent some really compelling and impressive capability that a more expensive system mght provide. These are just mainly to let friendly neighbors keep in touch. None of them are interested in planning or preparation, but it is always nice to have friends on call in an emergency. get some blister pack FRS radios (we can offer some suggestions I'm sure) and get a buddy - go around the neighborhood and see how they work... worst case you're out a set of decent radios to keep around anyway..... best, you're sure those would work (least expensive option) |
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Please tell me more. Quoted:
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MURS or, sounds like even better would be a sort of FRS mesh network.... Google gives me nothing. Please elaborate. for example someone on the south side of town may not be able to talk to the north side- but someone in the middle hears both - not the best but it'd work MURS would cover the 1sqmi... FRS may get spotty Please tell me more. not an actual system... I just mean if everyone has their radio on - point A doesn't need to talk to point G.... B, C, D, E, and F could relay if needed.... it would take people actually listening to the radios and a low amount of traffic |
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Looks like MURS is about your only option. How much range will 2 watts get the OP? Depends…could be 500 feet, could be 30 miles. Too many factors. Finding type accepted MURS gear isn't that easy. Ritron and Motorola are the only current manufacturers (though any Part 90 VHF radio made before 2002 that can meet specs is legal). Ritron has a nice little base/intercom that comes pre-programmed with all of the NOAA weather alerts as well (it can even do weather alert pages) but it's not cheap. A small neighborhood repeater would be more practical, but not meet the OP's budget. |
| Don't forget the Dakota Alert MURS Gear. Super Clunky, but they do work and are easy to operate (though they love to chew up the AA's). With the MURS Dakota Alert Base Station inside my RF filled house with the factory antenna 1/2 extended we can do about 1/2 to 3/4 miles at or on the farm. FWIW |
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I...know some people that had some of the old Radio Shack 19-1210 mobile radios set up for MURS channels 1 and 2, had the power output adjusted down to 2 watts (the unit puts out 5 watts by default, but there is an internal pot that can be adjusted) and magnetic mount VHF antennas. Car to car they could go about 5 miles with regularity when on the road and not blocked by terrain or urban canyons.
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Depends…could be 500 feet, could be 30 miles. Too many factors. Finding type accepted MURS gear isn't that easy. Ritron and Motorola are the only current manufacturers (though any Part 90 VHF radio made before 2002 that can meet specs is legal). Ritron has a nice little base/intercom that comes pre-programmed with all of the NOAA weather alerts as well (it can even do weather alert pages) but it's not cheap. A small neighborhood repeater would be more practical, but not meet the OP's budget. Quoted:
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Looks like MURS is about your only option. How much range will 2 watts get the OP? Depends…could be 500 feet, could be 30 miles. Too many factors. Finding type accepted MURS gear isn't that easy. Ritron and Motorola are the only current manufacturers (though any Part 90 VHF radio made before 2002 that can meet specs is legal). Ritron has a nice little base/intercom that comes pre-programmed with all of the NOAA weather alerts as well (it can even do weather alert pages) but it's not cheap. A small neighborhood repeater would be more practical, but not meet the OP's budget. If that's the case, some old HT1000's is the solution! |
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If that's the case, some old HT1000's is the solution! Quoted:
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Looks like MURS is about your only option. How much range will 2 watts get the OP? Depends…could be 500 feet, could be 30 miles. Too many factors. Finding type accepted MURS gear isn't that easy. Ritron and Motorola are the only current manufacturers (though any Part 90 VHF radio made before 2002 that can meet specs is legal). Ritron has a nice little base/intercom that comes pre-programmed with all of the NOAA weather alerts as well (it can even do weather alert pages) but it's not cheap. A small neighborhood repeater would be more practical, but not meet the OP's budget. If that's the case, some old HT1000's is the solution! But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. |
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In my neighborhood, we have an association Facebook page. I monitor skywarn and send out alerts to FB, and the group email list. Alerts to GMRS if power/internet is down.
Everyone has a smart phone and is always on it. Go that route first then pivot to gmrs/murs if needed. |
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. Quoted:
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Looks like MURS is about your only option. How much range will 2 watts get the OP? Depends…could be 500 feet, could be 30 miles. Too many factors. Finding type accepted MURS gear isn't that easy. Ritron and Motorola are the only current manufacturers (though any Part 90 VHF radio made before 2002 that can meet specs is legal). Ritron has a nice little base/intercom that comes pre-programmed with all of the NOAA weather alerts as well (it can even do weather alert pages) but it's not cheap. A small neighborhood repeater would be more practical, but not meet the OP's budget. If that's the case, some old HT1000's is the solution! But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. Dang, $3 a piece! Heck, I bought one for $20 a few months ago and thought I was getting a deal!
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. |
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damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. That and out of banding Sabers are the only thing I can bitbang/hexedit when it comes to moto gear  Some of those wizards on BatBoard... Know how to giterdun!
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That and out of banding Sabers are the only thing I can bitbang/hexedit when it comes to moto gear Some of those wizards on BatBoard... Know how to giterdun!Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. That and out of banding Sabers are the only thing I can bitbang/hexedit when it comes to moto gear Some of those wizards on BatBoard... Know how to giterdun!i would like to grab another JT1000 or 2, im just not paying the price people are asking. i have one that i have hacked the code plug so it is always FPPable. now i just have to order one of the Li-ion batteries for it because the Ni-mh batteries SUCK. |
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Looks like MURS is about your only option. How much range will 2 watts get the OP? As another guy said. Its totally dependent on the local terrain. The radios will basically be line of sight. If you can see where you want to talk to then it will probably work, it will work through light cover like trees and residential buildings, but not things like hills. This is why repeaters are always located as high as is possible, so they get the most range. A very rough rule of thumb is about 1mi/watt in typical terrain, but again it won't go through hills, and if you are elevated with line of sight it might be more than that. |
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damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. I did know that. We just don't have a need for VHF HT's. We see them as useless as tits on a boar hog. |
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I did know that. We just don't have a need for VHF HT's. We see them as useless as tits on a boar hog. Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. I did know that. We just don't have a need for VHF HT's. We see them as useless as tits on a boar hog. I'll take the next dozen you find! |
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I'll take the next dozen you find! Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. I did know that. We just don't have a need for VHF HT's. We see them as useless as tits on a boar hog. I'll take the next dozen you find! yea I could use a few
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yea I could use a few Quoted:
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But with any Moto equipment that is out of the DOS programming era…better buy some batteries. That being said, about 8 months ago me and a friend were selling 2 channel HT1000's (VHF) for $3 a piece without the batteries. We had about 40 of them and sold them all. At $30 a battery, $25 for the ribless cable, and a computer running FreeDOS with a real serial port…all you'd need is a wattmeter to turn the power down in the RSS…you could afford 6 HT100's @ $35 a radio and stay under $250. damn, i would have bought every one of them. guess you didnt know you can turn the 2ch HT1000's into 16ch versions. I did know that. We just don't have a need for VHF HT's. We see them as useless as tits on a boar hog. I'll take the next dozen you find! yea I could use a few Ditto! I'm a MotoHoarder!
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Completely agree with MURS, but I'd also give some thought to backwards compatibility and interoperability with gear that your friends and neighbors might already own.
To that end, even non-tech savvy households frequently have a UHF bubblepack radio or two kicking around. For that reason, the UHF radios I use for my GMRS repeaters and P25 digital also have GMRS simplex frequencies and CTCSS tones programmed. With the exception of close family and friends (who are already set up with commercial land mobile gear that I have provided) it is far more likely that I'll need to revert down to meet their level of tech - rather than have them rise up to meet mine. ETA: If you are going to program CTCSS tones for GMRS, I would strongly suggest that you follow the Motorola schema/convention - rather than Midland, Icom, Cobra etc. It is by far the most common. 
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I have nothing of value to add. It just made me think of this. I'm getting old when I realised that movie is 25 years old. http://www.richonfilm.com/files/images/burbs_33.gif I have two of those radios in mint condition. GE Citizen Band radios. I'm going to disagree with everyone here. I don't think you can prepare for people who won't prepare themselves. Using com is a combination of gear and techniques. Without minimal training and practice the radios will be of little use. If they don't see any value in preparing now, I doubt they will see any value in it when the SHTF and they are worrying about water, food and personal security. I suggest you have a decent battery powered station, good external antennas, add CB/GRMS also with good external antennas. Prepare yourself and try to work with those who are willing to help themselves. |