[ARCHIVED THREAD] - D-Star........anyone using it ??? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/28/2013 6:52:33 PM EDT
I picked up a used Icom ID-880H radio and just got registered with the D-Star Gateway. 
Anyone using it? |
| Now that I've bought a couple of UV-5R's and programmed them for all the local repeaters, including a large networked repeater system, I've been driving around with one for a few days and have heard exactly ZERO traffic. Do you suppose all of the repeater type folks have moved over to D-Star? This is in southern NH... |
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Now that I've bought a couple of UV-5R's and programmed them for all the local repeaters, including a large networked repeater system, I've been driving around with one for a few days and have heard exactly ZERO traffic. Do you suppose all of the repeater type folks have moved over to D-Star? This is in southern NH... The "most social" repeater in the Cinci area moved to D-Star right after it came out. Mostly in an effort to combat constant QRMing due to it's popularity. Picking up my radios for the first time in a couple years recently, I have been trying to find where everyone is. Most of the local repeaters are dead. I finally broke down and started looking at the info the old repeater has on who's been there. It looks dead too. My conclusion is that there isn't that much traffic (in my area) on repeaters anymore. 
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Now that I've bought a couple of UV-5R's and programmed them for all the local repeaters, including a large networked repeater system, I've been driving around with one for a few days and have heard exactly ZERO traffic. Do you suppose all of the repeater type folks have moved over to D-Star? This is in southern NH... When are you listening? I'm in the upper valley and the only time the repeaters are active up here is 7:30-8:00am M-F for a few people who are driving to work. I've heard very little activity on the repeaters in the southern part of the state. I've heard a couple of conversations as I drove through manchester, but that's about it. |
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When are you listening? I'm in the upper valley and the only time the repeaters are active up here is 7:30-8:00am M-F for a few people who are driving to work. I've heard very little activity on the repeaters in the southern part of the state. I've heard a couple of conversations as I drove through manchester, but that's about it. Quoted:
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Now that I've bought a couple of UV-5R's and programmed them for all the local repeaters, including a large networked repeater system, I've been driving around with one for a few days and have heard exactly ZERO traffic. Do you suppose all of the repeater type folks have moved over to D-Star? This is in southern NH... When are you listening? I'm in the upper valley and the only time the repeaters are active up here is 7:30-8:00am M-F for a few people who are driving to work. I've heard very little activity on the repeaters in the southern part of the state. I've heard a couple of conversations as I drove through manchester, but that's about it. Drive-time is when I've been listening, both am and pm. |
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I am planning on jumping in near the end of the year. I am planning on installing a hot spot. Using one of the moencom boards and a monoband radio with a 9600 port on it. I am going to access it using an id51. But since the moencom board is just a way for an analog radio to attach to the dstar network, wouldn't an ID51 be slightly overkill? |
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<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derek45/media/RADIO/D-STAR_zps19701198.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/RADIO/D-STAR_zps19701198.jpg</a> That's my club to a tee. Fuckem..I built a 70cm DVAP on a Rasperry Pi. I don't care to play in their reindeer games either. I have Arf and other sites to help Elmer me. 
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One of the Lubbock clubs got a D*Star repeater system a few years back. Only one for 150 miles…like polishing shit, kinda pointless when only 5 people in a town of 230,000 own (or even care about) D*Star equipment. Just what Lubbock needs, another repeater…
I'm too cheap for the system. In theory it was a good idea, but it's starting to look like a model for how Obamacare is acting… |
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<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derek45/media/RADIO/D-STAR_zps19701198.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/RADIO/D-STAR_zps19701198.jpg</a> 
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Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks  Quoted:
I didn't want to say anything[b] but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks Educate away. I really want to like D-Star but not if I have to buy an Icom radio or some piece of hardware from overseas. Everyone through a fit over the encryption proposal. To me I feel like if I post the key online then it should be just as accessible as D-Star is to the average ham. I am not crazy about internet linking, but after some of the stuff echomancer talked to me about I think it could be a very good tool. |
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Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks Quoted:
I didn't want to say anything[b] but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks I don't know that it needs to be made illegal, but I think it's a poor business decision to make something like this proprietary. It doesn't really encourage other companies to develop using new "technology" if they have to pay license/royalty fees to do so. This has happened in the computer world for ages and it usually ends up with one of two outcomes. 1) Multiple competing schemes that dilute the use of each one for a long time while the consumers and industry sort out which one should be the "standard" 2) The proprietary technology fails to gain traction due to competitors not adopting the technology. A potentially good idea fizzles away. My $.02 |
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Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks Quoted:
I didn't want to say anything[b] but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks I work in IT, feel free to educate me. Keeping current with technology is both easy and fun. However, D*Star is not a codec, it's encryption until it is an open standard. Or at least that's my understanding. Now check for D*Star repeaters in France. You won't find any. It is not allowed on their amateur frequencies over there, for the reasons stated above. Therefore, it is de facto illegal, if not actual de jure. Hence the quotes in my original statement. So while digital voice would be cool, I am trying to get away from the Internet. My use for ham radio is to practice for the grid going down. I plan to have a lot of fun with it, and might even get involved in EchoLink. Or, if it were available from more than one vendor, D*Star. Seriously, D*Star looks interesting and fun, but I can not bring myself to support it as it is. |
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MC hit the nail on the head from my perspective. I could really care less for the internet linking, while its neet I can do it with echo link, irlp, all star, etc. If I want a clear conversation with someone over the internet I can just use skype. Sure there is the 'ham' factor of making it to the repeater but after that its just voip.
I think the old link systems are way cooler that any internet link, and more within the purpose of amateur radio. |
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I think DMR is gonna surpass D*Star. Personally, digital voice versus analog I don't care. The only thing D*Star actually interests me is 1.2GHz data…I just can't justify the extra price for the radios.
I understand why people want linked systems in an emergency…but here are two things that are always forgotten about. With IRLP, D*Star, Echolink, All Star you need internet and with phone linked systems you need a land line. In December of 2009, a construction crew working along I-35 between Austin and San Marcos accidentally cut some fiber bundles and knocked out data and communications for 250 sq mi. They got it fixed within 4 hours, but you can't rely on the systems to be their in an emergency. In May 1970, a F5 tornado touched down in Lubbock. Only 1 land line to Dallas was spared, the only one that happened to be open during the tornado in fact. Good for day to day, but you can't trust any one thing to be there when you need it. |
| Don't you need internet for DMR as well? That being said, I use DMR, I have a base/mobile and an HT. As far as shtf, I believe they will be useless. They are however fun, I talk all over the world frequently, Germany, Canada, Africa, all over the US. But if the internet goes down they are a brick. Lots of DMR here in CO, not so much for D-Star. Also in SHTF you should assume most repeaters will be toast as well, get with your buddies and get a good simplex band plan put together, if you buy digital get radios that will do both analog and digital so they aren't a total loss. |
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Don't you need internet for DMR as well? That being said, I use DMR, I have a base/mobile and an HT. As far as shtf, I believe they will be useless. They are however fun, I talk all over the world frequently, Germany, Canada, Africa, all over the US. But if the internet goes down they are a brick. Lots of DMR here in CO, not so much for D-Star. Also in SHTF you should assume most repeaters will be toast as well, get with your buddies and get a good simplex band plan put together, if you buy digital get radios that will do both analog and digital so they aren't a total loss. our 4 repeaters back home have been running on top of a remote mountain for 6+ years completely off the grid. sure some places will go down but a lot are good to go. even in NC we would turn off mains and run on batteries for a week or so every now and then. The biggest problem I see is physical damage to the tower. |
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I work in IT, feel free to educate me. Keeping current with technology is both easy and fun. However, D*Star is not a codec, it's encryption until it is an open standard. Or at least that's my understanding. Now check for D*Star repeaters in France. You won't find any. It is not allowed on their amateur frequencies over there, for the reasons stated above. Therefore, it is de facto illegal, if not actual de jure. Hence the quotes in my original statement. So while digital voice would be cool, I am trying to get away from the Internet. My use for ham radio is to practice for the grid going down. I plan to have a lot of fun with it, and might even get involved in EchoLink. Or, if it were available from more than one vendor, D*Star. Seriously, D*Star looks interesting and fun, but I can not bring myself to support it as it is. Quoted:
Quoted:
I didn't want to say anything[b] but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks I work in IT, feel free to educate me. Keeping current with technology is both easy and fun. However, D*Star is not a codec, it's encryption until it is an open standard. Or at least that's my understanding. Now check for D*Star repeaters in France. You won't find any. It is not allowed on their amateur frequencies over there, for the reasons stated above. Therefore, it is de facto illegal, if not actual de jure. Hence the quotes in my original statement. So while digital voice would be cool, I am trying to get away from the Internet. My use for ham radio is to practice for the grid going down. I plan to have a lot of fun with it, and might even get involved in EchoLink. Or, if it were available from more than one vendor, D*Star. Seriously, D*Star looks interesting and fun, but I can not bring myself to support it as it is. Most DSTAR rigs are analog capable also and the emergencies are less than .01% of time. If your area has multiple Dstar repeaters, IMHO it makes sense to get your feet wet. Also the easiest way is to use a DVDangle. |
| There is a lot of DSTAR misinformation. Chk out the DSTAR FAQ page |
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Quoted: So what options besides buying another radio do I have to use DStar? The dvdongle and dvap look to do the same thing as echolink which requires no extra hardware. DV dongle will let you talk through your computer with a headset directly to the reflectors, no radio needed (sorta like echolink). Dvap is a RF bridge into your computer, you need a D-Star radio to "talk" to the Dvap to get into the reflectors (same as a mirco node). Both are around $250. You can get a ID-31 d-star UHF HT for under $300 |
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Quoted: Don't you need internet for DMR as well? That being said, I use DMR, I have a base/mobile and an HT. As far as shtf, I believe they will be useless. They are however fun, I talk all over the world frequently, Germany, Canada, Africa, all over the US. But if the internet goes down they are a brick. Lots of DMR here in CO, not so much for D-Star. Also in SHTF you should assume most repeaters will be toast as well, get with your buddies and get a good simplex band plan put together, if you buy digital get radios that will do both analog and digital so they aren't a total loss. Just to clarify, d-star radio's do FM analog and DV digital (even the ID-1). You do NOT need a repeater to use d-star in digital mode. They work in simplex on analog or digital, your choice. |
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I'm sorry the OPs D-Star love thread has become a bit of an "enthusiastic discussion". I kept my mouth shut early on because I didn't want this to happen.
Having said that, I feel this discussion pretty civil (we're not in GD!  ) and will hopefully be a least a little productive.
I got most of my info from the Wikipedia D-Star page. If I'm posting misinformation please cite specifics. |
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In December of 2009, a construction crew working along I-35 between Austin and San Marcos accidentally cut some fiber bundles and knocked out data and communications for 250 sq mi. They got it fixed within 4 hours, but you can't rely on the systems to be their in an emergency. In May 1970, a F5 tornado touched down in Lubbock. Only 1 land line to Dallas was spared, the only one that happened to be open during the tornado in fact. Good for day to day, but you can't trust any one thing to be there when you need it. I remember that fiber cut. It played hell with our MPLS, and all our locations nationwide had issues most of the day, even after it was *fixed*. Oh, and I used to work in the NTS building, which was hit full-on by that tornado. You can still stand at the south west corner of the building, look up, and see the *twist* in the building. Knowing the history of that building, it always floored me that our fiber carrying a good amount of our network's backbone came in over one arial fiber run into that building (and it was also named the Enron fiber… go figure…). Another tornado, or even an oversized truck making one wrong turn, and we'd have been dead in the water… some people never rely on history to plan the future. Putting all your eggs into one basket just asks for troubles. I think that's where most "DSTAR or nothing" fanatics will one day find out the hard way, that although it is forward progress in ham radio, it still doesn't have the emergency capabilities of good old analog. |
I am not sure why all of the hate for DStar , but from being in the public service sector for more than 25 years.......ham radio is not going to save the day either. 
For me its just a toy. I wasn't looking for the merits of DStar, I just wanted to know if anyone had one that might be interested in a sked. Many of the analog repeaters that are limping along today are not going to do much better than DStar when the chips are down. I'm not going to build a Emmcom box or take my radio to the field in Secret Squirrel mode either. The whole argument reminds me of the VHS vs Beta from 30 years ago.
Thanks for the comments though. Its been an interesting read. If anyone would like to hook up for a asked, just let me know. |
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I remember that fiber cut. It played hell with our MPLS, and all our locations nationwide had issues most of the day, even after it was *fixed*. Oh, and I used to work in the NTS building, which was hit full-on by that tornado. You can still stand at the south west corner of the building, look up, and see the *twist* in the building. Knowing the history of that building, it always floored me that our fiber carrying a good amount of our network's backbone came in over one arial fiber run into that building (and it was also named the Enron fiber… go figure…). Another tornado, or even an oversized truck making one wrong turn, and we'd have been dead in the water… some people never rely on history to plan the future. Putting all your eggs into one basket just asks for troubles. I think that's where most "DSTAR or nothing" fanatics will one day find out the hard way, that although it is forward progress in ham radio, it still doesn't have the emergency capabilities of good old analog. Quoted:
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In December of 2009, a construction crew working along I-35 between Austin and San Marcos accidentally cut some fiber bundles and knocked out data and communications for 250 sq mi. They got it fixed within 4 hours, but you can't rely on the systems to be their in an emergency. In May 1970, a F5 tornado touched down in Lubbock. Only 1 land line to Dallas was spared, the only one that happened to be open during the tornado in fact. Good for day to day, but you can't trust any one thing to be there when you need it. I remember that fiber cut. It played hell with our MPLS, and all our locations nationwide had issues most of the day, even after it was *fixed*. Oh, and I used to work in the NTS building, which was hit full-on by that tornado. You can still stand at the south west corner of the building, look up, and see the *twist* in the building. Knowing the history of that building, it always floored me that our fiber carrying a good amount of our network's backbone came in over one arial fiber run into that building (and it was also named the Enron fiber… go figure…). Another tornado, or even an oversized truck making one wrong turn, and we'd have been dead in the water… some people never rely on history to plan the future. Putting all your eggs into one basket just asks for troubles. I think that's where most "DSTAR or nothing" fanatics will one day find out the hard way, that although it is forward progress in ham radio, it still doesn't have the emergency capabilities of good old analog. I was working on some of the repeaters up there a few months ago, got stuck in the elevator. Rumor has it the sheriff's office had just installed a repeater (it was kept on the roof and not in what has now become the repeater room) the week before the tornado hit, they hadn't implemented it yet, 44 years and it still hasn't showed up. I'm not saying dstar is bad, I'm just saying for the extra cost involved I can come out with a DMR radio that I actually have uses for outside of ham. |
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I was working on some of the repeaters up there a few months ago, got stuck in the elevator. That was a weekly occurrence when I worked there... At one point they were so jacked up, we just ended up taking the stairs for a few weeks... 12th floor was not a fun floor to be on during that time... My uncle was living in Lbb when the tornado hit, and working for Nunn electric. They finally got him on the phone when it was over and asked if he would bring all the guns he had up to their warehouse downtown. Looting was awful right after it hit. He had a picture once from the newspaper that they had taken of the building, and I swear you could make out the image of the tornado where it looked like it had sandblasted a shadow of itself into the side. During a bad wind storm of 60-70mph winds when I was working there. I was trying to finish some things up, and started getting nauseous.. couldn't figure it out, until I looked to the west out my window, and could see the Wells Fargo building moving back and forth in my window. The NTS tower was swaying bad enough, it was giving me motion sickness... didn't take me long to GTFO and go home... |
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The DMR Standards Board adopted the SAME AMBE codec as the official CODEC of DMR: http://dmrassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/How-DMR-Works-Conventional-Tier-2.pdf
Those who argue that it's the AMBE Codec that should render DStar illegal would lose out on anything that requires a codec to decode, including all of your beloved digital modes! Now you may argue that one has to pay for an AMBE decoder, which is true, however, there is nothing that prevents you from buying the chip. They are available directly from DVSI which will apparently sell them in quantities of one reportedly for about $20 each. On a side note, this is the same chip used in public safety P.25 radios. The problem is that no one had created an OPEN technology to adopt for better A to D conversion of human speech. Since then, we have a couple of Open Source projects have started, but they will have to wait to be included in the next generation of digital voice communications. One other important point to note is that DStar is NOTHING like Echolink. Dstar is human voice, encoded to digital data, and then transmitted using GMSK. The signal from my HT is digital data. In Echolink and IRLP, all the radio is analog until the repeater controller, which converts it to digital and then routes it on its way. |
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That was a weekly occurrence when I worked there... At one point they were so jacked up, we just ended up taking the stairs for a few weeks... 12th floor was not a fun floor to be on during that time... My uncle was living in Lbb when the tornado hit, and working for Nunn electric. They finally got him on the phone when it was over and asked if he would bring all the guns he had up to their warehouse downtown. Looting was awful right after it hit. He had a picture once from the newspaper that they had taken of the building, and I swear you could make out the image of the tornado where it looked like it had sandblasted a shadow of itself into the side. During a bad wind storm of 60-70mph winds when I was working there. I was trying to finish some things up, and started getting nauseous.. couldn't figure it out, until I looked to the west out my window, and could see the Wells Fargo building moving back and forth in my window. The NTS tower was swaying bad enough, it was giving me motion sickness... didn't take me long to GTFO and go home... Quoted:
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I was working on some of the repeaters up there a few months ago, got stuck in the elevator. That was a weekly occurrence when I worked there... At one point they were so jacked up, we just ended up taking the stairs for a few weeks... 12th floor was not a fun floor to be on during that time... My uncle was living in Lbb when the tornado hit, and working for Nunn electric. They finally got him on the phone when it was over and asked if he would bring all the guns he had up to their warehouse downtown. Looting was awful right after it hit. He had a picture once from the newspaper that they had taken of the building, and I swear you could make out the image of the tornado where it looked like it had sandblasted a shadow of itself into the side. During a bad wind storm of 60-70mph winds when I was working there. I was trying to finish some things up, and started getting nauseous.. couldn't figure it out, until I looked to the west out my window, and could see the Wells Fargo building moving back and forth in my window. The NTS tower was swaying bad enough, it was giving me motion sickness... didn't take me long to GTFO and go home... They clocked 93 MPH in a storm over the summer. I was out roving that night instead. Try the repeater room…it's way up there level with the lower roof. It gets fun in wind. The Lubbock tornado website has some good pictures. Going up? 
Currently there is the Saltgrass repeater, a local UHF repeater, a 900 MHz Echolink repeater, and a GMRS repeater. Can't put much else up there… |
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The DMR Standards Board adopted the SAME AMBE codec as the official CODEC of DMR: http://dmrassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/How-DMR-Works-Conventional-Tier-2.pdf Those who argue that it's the AMBE Codec that should render DStar illegal would lose out on anything that requires a codec to decode, including all of your beloved digital modes! Now you may argue that one has to pay for an AMBE decoder, which is true, however, there is nothing that prevents you from buying the chip. They are available directly from DVSI which will apparently sell them in quantities of one reportedly for about $20 each. On a side note, this is the same chip used in public safety P.25 radios. The problem is that no one had created an OPEN technology to adopt for better A to D conversion of human speech. Since then, we have a couple of Open Source projects have started, but they will have to wait to be included in the next generation of digital voice communications. One other important point to note is that DStar is NOTHING like Echolink. Dstar is human voice, encoded to digital data, and then transmitted using GMSK. The signal from my HT is digital data. In Echolink and IRLP, all the radio is analog until the repeater controller, which converts it to digital and then routes it on its way. My big thing about D*Star is that I have to have a different radio to play with it than I do to use some of the commercial applications I do. If I'm gonna pay for it, might as well have something that is being implemented on both ham and commercial. |
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Holy crap; that place still looks the same... Half run down, and the other half looks like it could kill ya. Found your vid of being stuck in the video... yep, that always happened... normally for me it was around the 7th-8th floor, and halfway between the floors... and always about 20 minutes after the maintenance guy had left. He'd always be pissed cause he'd have to come back up to work to get us out.
That 2nd floor where you were stuck was where I spent quite a bit of time. All our routers, switches, and servers were in the 2nd room on the left... spend many a day and night in there either installing a new server, running ethernet, or working on the network... I miss the work, but I don't miss that raggedy ass building... I've been up to that repeater room before, but, never really paid much attention. Went past it up to the roof one time to visit with a friend who used to work at The Door to see how he was coming along with his antenna install.. He knew exactly how to get rid of me. Dared me to shimmy up the ledge on the roof and look down.... As I poured myself down and back to my office, I realized it had been a long time since my allergies of heights had been stirred up, and it was just as active as ever... Only other time I ever ventured up that high was to take a look through the old restaurant on the 20th floor. Seriously, that building can't be that far from being condemned... |
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Holy crap; that place still looks the same... Half run down, and the other half looks like it could kill ya. Found your vid of being stuck in the video... yep, that always happened... normally for me it was around the 7th-8th floor, and halfway between the floors... and always about 20 minutes after the maintenance guy had left. He'd always be pissed cause he'd have to come back up to work to get us out. That 2nd floor where you were stuck was where I spent quite a bit of time. All our routers, switches, and servers were in the 2nd room on the left... spend many a day and night in there either installing a new server, running ethernet, or working on the network... I miss the work, but I don't miss that raggedy ass building... I've been up to that repeater room before, but, never really paid much attention. Went past it up to the roof one time to visit with a friend who used to work at The Door to see how he was coming along with his antenna install.. He knew exactly how to get rid of me. Dared me to shimmy up the ledge on the roof and look down.... As I poured myself down and back to my office, I realized it had been a long time since my allergies of heights had been stirred up, and it was just as active as ever... Only other time I ever ventured up that high was to take a look through the old restaurant on the 20th floor. Seriously, that building can't be that far from being condemned... NTS just moved back in…so that used to be a restaurant up there. I've been told at one point in time that was a CB club. Somewhere I have a video of the elevator controls (it's up a ladder in the repeater room). |
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Most DSTAR rigs are analog capable also and the emergencies are less than .01% of time. If your area has multiple Dstar repeaters, IMHO it makes sense to get your feet wet. Also the easiest way is to use a DVDangle. Quoted:
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I didn't want to say anything[b] but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks I work in IT, feel free to educate me. Keeping current with technology is both easy and fun. However, D*Star is not a codec, it's encryption until it is an open standard. Or at least that's my understanding. Now check for D*Star repeaters in France. You won't find any. It is not allowed on their amateur frequencies over there, for the reasons stated above. Therefore, it is de facto illegal, if not actual de jure. Hence the quotes in my original statement. So while digital voice would be cool, I am trying to get away from the Internet. My use for ham radio is to practice for the grid going down. I plan to have a lot of fun with it, and might even get involved in EchoLink. Or, if it were available from more than one vendor, D*Star. Seriously, D*Star looks interesting and fun, but I can not bring myself to support it as it is. Most DSTAR rigs are analog capable also and the emergencies are less than .01% of time. If your area has multiple Dstar repeaters, IMHO it makes sense to get your feet wet. Also the easiest way is to use a DVDangle. Well I've had my ic-2820h for a couple of months now, but I've really only been using it for about a month. I have tested it side-by-side next to my FT-8800, FT-8900 and IC-7000 and it is fast becoming one of my favorites. The only complain that I have is the audio is a little robotic. But on the other hand it lets me have regular QSO with people all over the world without the pain of HF. I have daily/2 days qso's with like minded people from Japan, Netherlands and Canada. If your area has the repeaters, you will not go wrong! IMHO, DSTAR will slowly replace Analog rigs, just like digital cell phone protocols replaced the Analog (AMP) for everyday use! For emergencies the DSTAR rigs will operate in analog mode if the Analog repeaters are up. BTW, DSTAR does not necessarily require internet access if the repeaters use the RF backbone (Icom ID-1 or other similar technologies) between the repeaters but due to high price they mostly use the internet backbone. EDIT: I use it for a base station VHF/UHF rig. |
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IMHO, DSTAR will slowly replace Analog rigs, just like digital cell phone protocols replaced the Analog (AMP) for everyday use! For emergencies the DSTAR rigs will operate in analog mode if the Analog repeaters are up. Digital will replace analog, that is for certain (and has also been seen time and time again). DStar in it's current form won't be it though. Currently, Yaesu and Kenwood are developing DMR capable rigs. Rigs that are compatible with Motorola, Icom, Kenwood, and Vertex Standard DMR systems that have been put into use in the ham bands. Now, I could see Icom revamping the DStar AMBE codec to the DMR standard and still keeping it called DStar. If there was a effort of other manufactures to adopt it, I'd say it would stick around but since everyone else is going to the DMR standard, I can't see it surviving. |
| I have started a new thread on the merits of D-Star to attempt to prevent further hijacking this one, as K9-Bob appears to be seeking to make contact with other current D-Star users, and the signal to noise ratio in this thread is pretty low. |
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I don't know that it needs to be made illegal, but I think it's a poor business decision to make something like this proprietary. It doesn't really encourage other companies to develop using new "technology" if they have to pay license/royalty fees to do so. This has happened in the computer world for ages and it usually ends up with one of two outcomes. 1) Multiple competing schemes that dilute the use of each one for a long time while the consumers and industry sort out which one should be the "standard" 2) The proprietary technology fails to gain traction due to competitors not adopting the technology. A potentially good idea fizzles away. My $.02 Quoted:
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I didn't want to say anything but I think France has done the right thing by making D-Star "illegal" there. Too much time to explain modern technology and the way it works... sigh I wish i had more time to educate folks I don't know that it needs to be made illegal, but I think it's a poor business decision to make something like this proprietary. It doesn't really encourage other companies to develop using new "technology" if they have to pay license/royalty fees to do so. This has happened in the computer world for ages and it usually ends up with one of two outcomes. 1) Multiple competing schemes that dilute the use of each one for a long time while the consumers and industry sort out which one should be the "standard" 2) The proprietary technology fails to gain traction due to competitors not adopting the technology. A potentially good idea fizzles away. My $.02 It's not proprietary. Icom along with other companies (Kenwood, Yaesu, couple of others IIRC) jointly developed the D-star protocol. It's based on the NXDN digital standard. Any of those companies could develop D-star equipment. Quoted:
The FCC needs to force Icom to either make the AMBE protocol open, or to disallow D-Star from ham use. That is all. Icom doesn't own the AMBE vocoder. It was developed by a private company and patented. AMBE is used in various other digital radio systems like P25 as well. They use it because it works well, and there aren't alternatives that are equivalent or superior that are freely available. Yes the world needs some quality open source codecs. It's a tremendous amount of work if you can't get any return on investment. [b]Quoted:
However, D*Star is not a codec, it's encryption until it is an open standard. Or at least that's my understanding. It's not encryption. As far as DMR, doesn't it use the same AMBE codec as D-star? |
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Digital will replace analog, that is for certain (and has also been seen time and time again). DStar in it's current form won't be it though. Currently, Yaesu and Kenwood are developing DMR capable rigs. Rigs that are compatible with Motorola, Icom, Kenwood, and Vertex Standard DMR systems that have been put into use in the ham bands. Now, I could see Icom revamping the DStar AMBE codec to the DMR standard and still keeping it called DStar. If there was a effort of other manufactures to adopt it, I'd say it would stick around but since everyone else is going to the DMR standard, I can't see it surviving. Quoted:
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IMHO, DSTAR will slowly replace Analog rigs, just like digital cell phone protocols replaced the Analog (AMP) for everyday use! For emergencies the DSTAR rigs will operate in analog mode if the Analog repeaters are up. Digital will replace analog, that is for certain (and has also been seen time and time again). DStar in it's current form won't be it though. Currently, Yaesu and Kenwood are developing DMR capable rigs. Rigs that are compatible with Motorola, Icom, Kenwood, and Vertex Standard DMR systems that have been put into use in the ham bands. Now, I could see Icom revamping the DStar AMBE codec to the DMR standard and still keeping it called DStar. If there was a effort of other manufactures to adopt it, I'd say it would stick around but since everyone else is going to the DMR standard, I can't see it surviving. "Everyone is going to MDR"??? I don't see that. DMR is another digital format with its own advantages and disadvantages. Similar to TDMA, vs CDMA, vs GSM, vs etc in cell phone technologies! But IMHO its too little, too late! If I'm not mistaking, DMR just introduced their repeater products  . DSTAR has a much larger footprint.
To me its not about which is better - they both have their advantages/disadvantages - its about which has a larger following and footprint. if you recall, VHS won the VHS/Beta competition, although Beta was clearly a better format! Beta became the professional format (just like Motorola P25 (BTW, DMR was copied/is very similar to P25 format)) and VHS the more popular format, selling billions of more units. |
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"Everyone is going to MDR"??? I don't see that. DMR is another digital format with its own advantages and disadvantages. Similar to TDMA, vs CDMA, vs GSM, vs etc in cell phone technologies! But IMHO its too little, too late! If I'm not mistaking, DMR just introduced their repeater products . DSTAR has a much larger footprint.
To me its not about which is better - they both have their advantages/disadvantages - its about which has a larger following and footprint. if you recall, VHS won the VHS/Beta competition, although Beta was clearly a better format! Beta became the professional format (just like Motorola P25 (BTW, DMR was copied/is very similar to P25 format)) and VHS the more popular format, selling billions of more units. Quoted:
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IMHO, DSTAR will slowly replace Analog rigs, just like digital cell phone protocols replaced the Analog (AMP) for everyday use! For emergencies the DSTAR rigs will operate in analog mode if the Analog repeaters are up. Digital will replace analog, that is for certain (and has also been seen time and time again). DStar in it's current form won't be it though. Currently, Yaesu and Kenwood are developing DMR capable rigs. Rigs that are compatible with Motorola, Icom, Kenwood, and Vertex Standard DMR systems that have been put into use in the ham bands. Now, I could see Icom revamping the DStar AMBE codec to the DMR standard and still keeping it called DStar. If there was a effort of other manufactures to adopt it, I'd say it would stick around but since everyone else is going to the DMR standard, I can't see it surviving. "Everyone is going to MDR"??? I don't see that. DMR is another digital format with its own advantages and disadvantages. Similar to TDMA, vs CDMA, vs GSM, vs etc in cell phone technologies! But IMHO its too little, too late! If I'm not mistaking, DMR just introduced their repeater products . DSTAR has a much larger footprint.
To me its not about which is better - they both have their advantages/disadvantages - its about which has a larger following and footprint. if you recall, VHS won the VHS/Beta competition, although Beta was clearly a better format! Beta became the professional format (just like Motorola P25 (BTW, DMR was copied/is very similar to P25 format)) and VHS the more popular format, selling billions of more units. I'm gonna apologize to the OP, I've given my reasons of why I don't use DStar. If it was implemented in my area, I would look into it…but there isn't anything. I'll probably hop in the debate on the other tread. Now I'm 21, Betamax was before my time (Laserdisc was not though) but I will say, HD-DVD v. Blue-ray. One used Microsoft's video codec, the other Java's… |