Posted: 4/9/2012 6:37:42 PM EDT
| I'm new to Ham radios (Tech license here). Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis? Or would I just be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with that? |
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Short answer: Yes But you might have to choose different bands depending on the time of day, general band conditions, skill of the operators on both ends, available power and antennas, and sunspot cycle phase. Next question is: can I fit the equipment I need in one of these handy ENCOMM boxes or am I going to need something bigger than that? |
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Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis?
VOACAP Online Point-to-Point Predictions |
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I'm new to Ham radios (Tech license here). Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis? Or would I just be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with that? Yes, but not phone (voice) with a Tech license. For that you need a General. You can use CW on the HF bands, as per the band plan. You may use parts of 80 meters, 40 meters, and 15 meters CW only, no phone. 75/80 meters at night, or rather, any time after sunset. 40 meters in the morning and mid to late afternoon. 20, 17, 15 meters most of the day, mid morning to late afternoon. So, get on the stick, study for the General! |
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Quoted:
I'm new to Ham radios (Tech license here). Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis? Or would I just be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with that? Yes, but not phone (voice) with a Tech license. For that you need a General. You can use CW on the HF bands, as per the band plan. You may use parts of 80 meters, 40 meters, and 15 meters CW only, no phone. 75/80 meters at night, or rather, any time after sunset. 40 meters in the morning and mid to late afternoon. 20, 17, 15 meters most of the day, mid morning to late afternoon. So, get on the stick, study for the General! +1! Get your General! I did, and have now been bitten by the HF bug... damn that little critter 
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Quoted:
Short answer: Yes But you might have to choose different bands depending on the time of day, general band conditions, skill of the operators on both ends, available power and antennas, and sunspot cycle phase. Next question is: can I fit the equipment I need in one of these handy ENCOMM boxes or am I going to need something bigger than that? Something like the Icom IC-7000 would fit nicely into an EMCOMM box. The antenna(s) will need some thought, though. A wire antenna with a tuner such as the Icom AH-4 would be a good start. |
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The IC-7000 is my worldwide communication tool of choice-I bought it based on suggestions here from many people who own one (or more).
That little radio allows me to put a signal just about anywhere. If a dolt like me can do it, so can you  Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I'm new to Ham radios (Tech license here). Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis? Or would I just be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole with that? Contrary to what others have written, I will tell you that you will NOT be able to communicate on "a fairly reliable basis". As has been demonstrated many times as part of the Tue voice and Wed digital arfcom ham radio nets, you can't talk to anybody you want at any time you want even if you are well versed and experienced at the art and science of HF radio communications. This is doubly true if you want conditions good enough to actually have a conversation, rather than just merely trade call signs and signal reports. If you want 100% assured commo for local SHTF, invest in an Iridium handset and carry the minimum "emergency" monthly plan. Then you can make satphone calls to UT and TN at the drop of a hat. Or, if texting will do it for you, a SPOT Satellite Messenger, which is a lot less expensive than Iridium. If you want 100% assured commo for TEOTWAWKI, then you are dreaming but yes, HF radio is the best approximation. Will there be an experienced HF radio operator with a decent installation at each location? Finally, again has been shown on the arfcom nets, if you are willing to learn how to accomplish HF digital mode communications you will find that much more "reliable" than voice comms. However in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation you have the additional burden of keeping a laptop up and running to do this. There are many other subtleties involved. You will probably want to different types of antennas, one for CA to UT, the other for CA to TN. You will use different freq's at different times of day for the two different links. If you can run a 600W or 1KW amp at each location this will help quite a bit, but they require substantial amounts of power, i.e. the grid must be up or you need a generator. |
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Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis?
VOACAP Online Point-to-Point Predictions Thanks for this....it is a neat tool. |
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It's well worth the time and effort to learn CW. Or, if it's easier to procure equipment than learn CW, CW can be run via PC. If you're going PC to PC, it works well. PC to person, usually ok as well. But someone fist mashing a straight key just isn't going to work well with a computer on the receieve end. |
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Let me recommend that the OP:
1) Get a General license, 2) an HF station and antenna, with coverage from 80 m to 10 m at minimum, 3) participate in regional nets, both day and night, to learn propagation. This is the best way to find out just what your station can do, who and where you can and can't talk to on a regular basis. I know that I can talk to one ham 500 miles away day or night, consistently, on 40 meters during the mornings and late afternoon. I can talk to another every evening on 75 meters, beginning an hour after sunset, unless the band is particularly noisy, in which case no one can use that band that night. And I can easily talk to Piccolo during the day on 20 meters, nearly 1000 miles away. And I can't talk to a guy 120 miles away on 20, 17, or 15 meters during the day. Our signals apparently skip right over each other. But get on the air and learn what you can do via the nets. I think you'll be surprised. |
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Quoted: This is 100 watts into a dipole using SSB: http://www.voacap.com/predictions/4f843eb757e96/rel.png This is the same station using CW: http://www.voacap.com/predictions/4f8440ebbca74/rel.png It's well worth the time and effort to learn CW. now show it for digital  OP what you're looking at here is the MUF, LUF and FOT.... Maximum usable freq - freqs above this will punch through the ionosphere or "go long" if they do refract Lowest usable freq - freqs below this are absorbed by the ionosphere Frequency of optimal transmission - the BEST freq to use... you want to be as close to this (but below it) also both 600 and 1200 miles will work.... but will take some planning to do it regularly |
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now show it for digital
CW is digital, and it doesn't require an energy-consuming computer either. 
My experience with Hurricane Ike was that mains power was unobtanium and fuel was a very scarce commodity for a few days. I can run my QRP HF rig (50 mA receive current) a long time on a 33 Ah SLA battery. |
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Thanks a ton for all those who are chiming in here and teaching me so much stuff. I've decided to go ahead and get my General license and already began studying (a little bit at least).
I hate to sound like the ignorant rube that I am, but ... what's "digital" radio? Sounds like something I'd be interested in, especially if voice communications will be difficult at distance. Right now I have a laptop and a Yaesu VX-6R (operating manual). Is there anything I can do with that to get started learning how it works while I pull together enough scratch for an Icom IC-7000 or something like that? |
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Thanks a ton for all those who are chiming in here and teaching me so much stuff. I've decided to go ahead and get my General license and already began studying (a little bit at least). I hate to sound like the ignorant rube that I am, but ... what's "digital" radio? Sounds like something I'd be interested in, especially if voice communications will be difficult at distance. Right now I have a laptop and a Yaesu VX-6R (operating manual). Is there anything I can do with that to get started learning how it works while I pull together enough scratch for an Icom IC-7000 or something like that? Digital radio is nothing more than communicating with a computer or with a morse code (cw) key. Of course there are digital radios for voice comms as well but not for HF...that I am aware of. |
| "Digital" is much like using Instant Messenger on your computer via internet. With PSK31, and other digital modes, you type back and forth. Some modes are faster than others. PSK31 (Phase Shift Keying 31 baud) goes about as fast as I can type. PSK63 takes twice the bandwidth, but is much faster. |
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and to add... with some of the digital protocals, you can receive and decode a message that is way down in the noise... something you would never be able to hear with your ear...
even though it is a computer based digital protocal, the radio and your antenna still have to broadcast and receive the signal... then your computer helps you read the message... just like your cell phone and a txt message... only much cooler... :) |
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And don't forget the old standby RTTY. Radio TeleTYpe. Radio amateurs have been using the mode since immediately after WWII when surplus equipment hit the market. It still does the job.
For a primer on PSK31 go to YouTube. In the search window enter K7AGE PSK31. In the results will be videos on receiving, transmitter setup, and operating. When you're done with that search K7AGE hell. His video "What the HELL?" is an into to Hellscriber. Hellscriber is a semi-digital mode developed by the Germans in the 1920's. Not a lot of people are into it but I've worked Italy and Belgium with it. |
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Quoted: I've worked Switzerland, the Azores, Canary Islands, Spain (both coasts), Italy, and Canada to Argentina with PSK31 and just 20-25 watts. I have out to Bora Bora on PSK - East to Asiatic Russia I have down to St Helena's Is and Kuwait on Voice and there are some digi modes that get through better than CW I really want my raspberrypi already so I can experiment with a AA powered computer that's the size of the screen and keyboard.... (computer adds nothing really) |
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Would I be able to use HF Ham Radios to communicate between UT and CA (~600 miles) and UT and TN (~1400 miles) on a fairly reliable basis?
VOACAP Online Point-to-Point Predictions Can you show us how this site works? |
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VOACAP Online Point-to-Point Predictions
Can you show us how this site works?
1) Select the date. It defaults to the current year and month. 2a) Select a TX location from the drop-down list. Locations in the lower 48 states are toward the bottom in the Ws. 2b) Or you can enter a grid square (such as DN40bs) into the Name field and click the Loc calc button. 2c) Or you can enter a latitude and longitude manually. 3) Select a TX antenna. There are several choices. 4) Select a TX power level. There are several choices. 5) Select a TX mode. You can choose from CW, SSB or AM. 6) You may want to click the Set as default button at this point. 7) Select an RX location and antenna as above. 8) Click the Run the prediction! button. The horizontal bars, from top to bottom, correspond to 10m, 12m, 15m, 17m, 20m, 30m, 40m, 60m and 80m. Let's say you wanted to contact Nashville, TN from Salt Lake City, UT at 10 UTC. The graph indicates 30m would be your best bet, followed by 40m. |
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Sometimes we would get an echo while transmitting as the signal traveled around the earth skipping off the ionosphere. Of course, with a 37,000 foot high antenna and pushing 400 watts, that can happen.  I understand where your user name is from after this post. |