Posted: 2/24/2012 5:46:35 PM EDT
|
I know many there are many factors but was wondering operating on 2m simplex what is a around about range?
|
|
My last "test" was 10 miles on 70cm using 4W of power from inside a vehicle through a HT. That was from Salem Oregon to Silverton Oregon.
I did hit a 2m repeater from 50+ miles away with a 5W HT using a 1/4 wave aftermarket antenna. Reports were that my signal was "crystal clear". This was from Silverton Oregon to Mt. Hebo Oregon. |
|
Quoted:
I know many there are many factors but was wondering operating on 2m simplex what is a around about range? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/604477_Ham_Radio_101.html&page=1#i10323208 ar-jedi |
|
Quoted:
I have hit repeaters at about 7 miles in an urban setting with a rubber duck, barely made it through. with a half wave antenna 10 miles was no problem, never tried further than that just 7 miles from an HT to a repeater, and it's not DFQ? urban setting or not, were i the repeater trustee i would not be especially proud of that... ar-jedi |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know many there are many factors but was wondering operating on 2m simplex what is a around about range? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/604477_Ham_Radio_101.html&page=1#i10323208 ar-jedi Great link, thanks. For the OP, I found this link to have a limited but educational set of tables to help understand three key items for achieving distance: antenna efficiency, antenna height, and power. It also helped me to see that reliable distance (99% table) is much shorter than reported experience (50% table), which means that a backup method for increasing distance is important to plan for emergency situations. For HT use there are some things we can do, depending on how we use them: 1. Get up on a hill to transmit (with the the best antenna you can bring & use while moving on foot - maybe something like this) 2. When you can stop in a good fixed position, run a roll-up slim jim antenna up a tree/pole/structure (the height and efficiency are double improvements that might let you conserve power, too . . I'm revising my daypack using this approach) 3. Use an amplifier if you've got *extra* power available from a vehicle or large battery (extending distance with a mobile radio in a nearby vehicle is another option) |
|
I found a new repeater today. According to google earth it is 35/36 miles away.
One operator said they could hear me fine. I could hear him ok, rather scratchy but otherwise intelligible. So I can make the repeater and he was close to it, comparatively speaking lol Wouxun UV2D HT into an Ed Fong J-pole, roof mounted, probably 15ft in the air. I love this antenna 
I still wonder how well it would be on simplex though eta: South Florida is ridiculously flat 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: I know many there are many factors but was wondering operating on 2m simplex what is a around about range? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/604477_Ham_Radio_101.html&page=1#i10323208 ar-jedi agree SO many variables..... usually -1-3 miles is doing decently....
|
| A counterpoise seems to help. I made a "tiger tail" for my Yaesu FT-60 from a ring terminal (Gardner Bender 15-105 from Home Depot) and 19.25 inches of stranded, insulated wire. You just unscrew the antenna, slip the ring terminal over the SMA connector, and screw the antenna back on. I also fashioned a small weight from some solder and taped it onto the end so it would hang down better. |
|
i have my wouxon HT sitting on my nightstand monitoring the local repeater every night. it is 25 to 27 miles away. never lose contact. when i do chime in they claim they can hear me fine. no special antenna just the rubber one it came with. have made simplex communication 15 miles before with same setup. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
understand three key items for achieving distance: antenna efficiency, antenna height, and power. and add to that: –– modulation (FM vs SSB) –– polarization (vertical versus horizontal) ar-jedi SSB is a good point for those planning both ends in advance. Unfortunately, only 1 of the 60+ hams I know has a 2m HT with SSB capability so I generally set it aside when thinking about typical HT comms. I guess if we count HF pack rigs as HTs that might raise the count to 2. And, my amp is SSB ready! :) How does polarization impact FM communications if the 2 stations are differently polarized . . say I'm using a hand yagi and the other radio is using a vertical and we are nearing the edge of reliable comms distance for our gear? |
|
Quoted: How does polarization impact FM communications if the 2 stations are differently polarized . . say I'm using a hand yagi and the other radio is using a vertical and we are nearing the edge of reliable comms distance for our gear? Isn't it somewhere in the neighborhood of -20db if they're opposite? |
|
Quoted:
i have my wouxon HT sitting on my nightstand monitoring the local repeater every night. it is 25 to 27 miles away. never lose contact. when i do chime in they claim they can hear me fine. no special antenna just the rubber one it came with. have made simplex communication 15 miles before with same setup. I can do the same with a repeater 22 miles or so south of us . . it's almost a satellite relative to our home . . . nearly 1200' ASL and about 825' above our ground level. That repeater gives us a reliable 90+ mile diameter coverage centered from the repeater using a cheap Larsen 1/4 wave and no tiger tail. But to our west the same 5W HT can never reliably communicate with a repeater 20 miles at 120' even using a 6 db Diamond vertical at 25' . . too many obstructions. |
|
Quoted:
How does polarization impact FM communications if the 2 stations are differently polarized . . say I'm using a hand yagi and the other radio is using a vertical and we are nearing the edge of reliable comms distance for our gear? turn your Yagi vertically. 
seriously though, you will take a big hit with crossed polarization. in theory, and in the absence of any reflection/refraction/multipath, crossed polarization with simplex VHF results in no signal at the receiver. in practice (aka The Real World), there are enough external effects to make it work better than theory would suggest. intentionally crossing is an effective aid to fox hunting, however. in close proximity to the fox, the signal can be so strong that it is difficult to DF. holding your antenna (e.g, HT or small Yagi) "crossed" can introduce enough attenuation to make DF possible. this is 1 of N methods. incidentally, DirectTV/DishTV and similar sat TV providers use crossed polarization to increase adjacent channel selectivity at the subscriber. every other channel on a given satellite transponder is polarized opposite; e.g. transponder 1/channel 1 is right hand circular polarized, and transponder 1/channel 2 is left hand circular polarized. this allows the individual channel frequencies to be grouped "tighter", i.e. more channels in a given slice of spectrum. there are also methods of transmitting 2 channels on the same frequency as well, again with cross polarization. at the subscriber end –– depending on what channel is –– the receiver sends either 12Vdc or 17Vdc to the LNB (low noise block) located at the focal point on the parabolic dish antenna –– the 5V differential tells the LNB which polarization is desired. for the above reason it is not generally possible to use two satellite receivers with a single LNB –– unless they are both tuned to channels with the same polarization. multi-receiver setups use dual-RX LNBs (one right and and one left hand), and an intermediate device (auto polarization switch) which allows multiple receivers to pick up the correct polarization for the desired channel. ar-jedi |
| I was chatting simplex on 5w the other morning to a gentleman out in Windsor CO, as the crow flies that's about 11-12 miles. He was on a base, but was copying me at around S8. Its really flat between here and there too. That was with my VX-6r and a Diamond SRH320a antenna |
|
It does help to have some elevation. At my old haunts on the Oregon coast we had no shortage of hills so HT range could be quite long (or short). Our group's repeaters were on a headland at 2000' so working from well up & down the coast with HTs was pretty easy. As the sole occupant of the site for many years we had no outside RF issues and had a high gain low noise preamp on the input. More recently with the admission of other tenants the noise floor has come up some but it is still quite good.
A couple days ago I was in St. Louis and tried operating from the Arch. It's actually pretty tough up there, a lot of steel and tiny windows. And apparently nobody in StL monitors .52, I didn't make any contacts. Had to try though! |
Just replaced the X-50 in my attic with an X-300NA. Last night I unplugged my base station radio and plugged in a 5w UHF portable. According to Google maps, I was able to reach a repeater that was 34 miles away, with the 5 watt UHF portable using that antenna. The station who responded to my signal report request said I was full quieting into the machine-so that made me a happy little button pusher 
To those of you with more experience than me that probably isn't a big deal, but I was stoked to hear that report Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
I am able to stand in my back yard, with the little Baofeng UV-3R and the stock rubber ducky, and talk through the local repeater 9.9 miles away. They say my signal has a little noise, but I get a full quiet report with the Nagoya NA-701 antenna. That repeater's antenna is not very high, 50'-60' in a back yard.
Driving in my pickup, inside the cab, I easily hit a repeater 12 miles away, full quiet, but that repeater's antenna is on top of a water tower. I could have probably gotten more range, I was just surprised when I turned on the radio and could talk on that repeater from where I was. So, I don't really know the range on that repeater. Antenna height on both ends makes a huge difference. Power, not so much. |
|
Quoted:
Just replaced the X-50 in my attic with an X-300NA. Last night I unplugged my base station radio and plugged in a 5w UHF portable. According to Google maps, I was able to reach a repeater that was 34 miles away, with the 5 watt UHF portable using that antenna. The station who responded to my signal report request said I was full quieting into the machine-so that made me a happy little button pusher
To those of you with more experience than me that probably isn't a big deal, but I was stoked to hear that report
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile A couple db improvement in the base antenna change. Very nice. 9db worth of efficiency vs. 0 or perhaps - with oem HT antenna. Plus we learned no more potential problem with polarization by dropping the portable mounted antenna. Lots of distance yield! :) |
|
Belt mounted VHF HT to belt mounted HT, I'd say about 1.5 mi max through trees and houses. Miles if it's line of signt.
Hand held HT to 5/8 wave up 6' (car roof or cookie sheet 5-7 miles I've done 75-85 miles with a aircraft band handheld over salt water (I grabbed the wrong mic.) |
|
Quoted: It does help to have some elevation. At my old haunts on the Oregon coast we had no shortage of hills so HT range could be quite long (or short). Our group's repeaters were on a headland at 2000' so working from well up & down the coast with HTs was pretty easy. As the sole occupant of the site for many years we had no outside RF issues and had a high gain low noise preamp on the input. More recently with the admission of other tenants the noise floor has come up some but it is still quite good. A couple days ago I was in St. Louis and tried operating from the Arch. It's actually pretty tough up there, a lot of steel and tiny windows. And apparently nobody in StL monitors .52, I didn't make any contacts. Had to try though! Didn't you go out the hatch up onto the top? |
! But I think they should mount some antennas up there for us to use.
|
Yep. Both make a HUGE difference.
Ditching the ducky antenna in favor of a collapsible 5/8 wave whip on both talkies will easily double their range. I actually have one of those. It makes an HT more of a manpack than a WT. Seems like you could transmit with it collapsed as a 1/4 wave on 2 meters. RS |
|
I've worked one end to the other of a 10k race course with an HT VHF and UHF. The course had a turn or two but was at least 2 miles from one ht to the other.
ETA: This was with rubber ducks on a prerun of the course. The club reapeter was a bit sketchy at this location and we needed to see if simplex would work. The day of the race net control had an antenna on a painters pole and a mobile rig. Coverage was flawless. |
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.