Posted: 9/17/2011 10:45:54 PM EDT
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I have started using D-Star. Anyone else out there drinking the kool aid? I also have been playing a little with P25.
Maybe we could get a D-Star rag chew group going on? |
| all the clubs here added dstar repeaters a few years ago. i bet less than 10% of the members own any dstar equipment anymore. works great just most found the cost not really worth the limited traffic they were getting and being limited to icom only radios it just never took off around here. |
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worldwide internet linked repeaters on 2m. essentially allows worldwide coms on 2m. there is more but that is the basics. sort of like echolink but significantly more user friendly.
essentially another proprietary mode like yeasus wires. it works well but limits you to icom equipment. not to mention ungodly expensive. |
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D-Star is a proprietary system of Icom. There's more than one brand of radio out there, so I won't be using D-Star any more than I use WIRES or any other proprietary system. The difference between D-Star and Yaesu WIRES is I've actually heard of people using D-Star. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
D-Star is a proprietary system of Icom. There's more than one brand of radio out there, so I won't be using D-Star any more than I use WIRES or any other proprietary system. The difference between D-Star and Yaesu WIRES is I've actually heard of people using D-Star. the only thing i use my wires button for is pissing off the old rag chewers that eat up the repeater every morning.
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DStar is NOT a proprietary Icom technology. It's an open(ish) digital communication technology that is based loosely on the P25 vocoder (MUCH narrower bandwidth requirements than analog). The technology was invited by Japanese amateurs. Currently, Icom is the only major manufacturer that provides equipment for DStar, but any manufacturer could add the capability. It is another way to use the internet to communicate with ham technologies. Unlike Wires, Echolink, or IRLP, DStar is 100% digital (the other modes use digital ways of transmitting digital traffic, but that traffic is turned back in to analog audio if the destination is a repeater. DStar is digital all the way through to your radio.
I own one DStar HT and bought it as a way to talk to others around the world since I can't play HF in my apartment. I also own a DVAP. Adoption does continue to be its biggest enemy, but we have a lot of machines in the DC Metro area (full stacks). |
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Icom OWNS the D-Star trademark. From Wiki:
"Despite many protestations from the Pro-D-Star lobby that the standard was developed by the JARL, and D-Star is not only an Icom system, the term 'D-Star' is itself a registered trademark of Icom." http://electronics.zibb.com/trademark/d-star/30086504 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76535996 Regardless of who developed D-Star, public domain or whatever, Icom owning the trademark makes it, for all practical purposes, Icom's product only. No one else can make D-Star products if they can't use the trademarked name "D-Star". That's why no other manufacturer is going to make D-Star products. Were you not aware of this? It is not a secret. |
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Quoted:
Icom OWNS the D-Star trademark. From Wiki: "Despite many protestations from the Pro-D-Star lobby that the standard was developed by the JARL, and D-Star is not only an Icom system, the term 'D-Star' is itself a registered trademark of Icom." http://electronics.zibb.com/trademark/d-star/30086504 http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76535996 Regardless of who developed D-Star, public domain or whatever, Icom owning the trademark makes it, for all practical purposes, Icom's product only. No one else can make D-Star products if they can't use the trademarked name "D-Star". That's why no other manufacturer is going to make D-Star products. Were you not aware of this? It is not a secret. While you are quite correct that Icom holds the rights to "D-Star" any manufacture can use the vocoder and technology. D-Star is just a name, not a technology. It is really frustrating to me that a lot of hams are anti d-star. It almost seems like there is a lot of "oh no! there is a new technology that we don't understand and is new so we must shun it!!" Hams are willing to pay 2, 3, 10k for a HF radio but when someone says that a VHF/UHF radio cost more than 2-300 bucks that the price is outrageous?! I'll get off my box... I really like dstar. The possibilities with it are endless. I do tho wish other ham manufacturers would get in on this. hell that would probably bring the cost down some.......... |
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Thats the catch though , only Icom is using it . Out of our whole club only one person has a Icom mobile . I wish the companies would decide on a standard and go with it but Yeasu has it go nuclear option which I think is used in Japan but is a no go here .So I wouldnt call shunning it but right now only one company offers it so why am I going to pay a premium for a tech that is not in wide spread use and I can accomplish with cheaper methods . If Yeasu ,woxan , or Kenwood offered it and D star capable repeaters started showing up around here I would most likly get a radio with that feature . |
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Quoted:
Thats the catch though , only Icom is using it . Out of our whole club only one person has a Icom mobile . I wish the companies would decide on a standard and go with it but Yeasu has it go nuclear option which I think is used in Japan but is a no go here .So I wouldnt call shunning it but right now only one company offers it so why am I going to pay a premium for a tech that is not in wide spread use and I can accomplish with cheaper methods . If Yeasu ,woxan , or Kenwood offered it and D star capable repeaters started showing up around here I would most likly get a radio with that feature . ditto |
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I'm not "anti-D-Star". The problem is that it is going to be, by the trademark thing, going to be only one manufacturer, greatly limiting person A talking to person B unless they both have D-Star Icoms. That is too much limitation.
Yes, the technology is open, but I don't see Yaesu, Kenwood, Alinco, or anyone else paying licensing fees to Icom to use the term "D-Star" in their advertising. Frankly, for an open technology developed by someone else, I am surprised that Icom was allowed to trademark the term D-Star. All this LIMITS usage. The fact that it is open technology does nothing to expand the usage of D-Star. This is the same as when Chevy tried to trademark "Beretta" for one of its cars, and then had the hutzpah to sue Beretta, the gun manufacturer over the name. Or Ralph Lauren suing Polo magazine, the official publication of the US polo organization, because Ralph Lauren made a cologne called Polo. Well, try making a radio and advertising it is "D-Star" compatible without paying Icom some hefty fees and see if you don't hear from their lawyers. This is what is going to stop D-Star, just the same as WIRES has died on the vine. You can argue about whether it is truly "proprietary" or not, but as long as Icom owns the trademark, it is Icom's. |
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I'm not "anti-D-Star". The problem is that it is going to be, by the trademark thing, going to be only one manufacturer, greatly limiting person A talking to person B unless they both have D-Star Icoms. That is too much limitation. Yes, the technology is open, but I don't see Yaesu, Kenwood, Alinco, or anyone else paying licensing fees to Icom to use the term "D-Star" in their advertising. Frankly, for an open technology developed by someone else, I am surprised that Icom was allowed to trademark the term D-Star. All this LIMITS usage. The fact that it is open technology does nothing to expand the usage of D-Star. This is the same as when Chevy tried to trademark "Beretta" for one of its cars, and then had the hutzpah to sue Beretta, the gun manufacturer over the name. Or Ralph Lauren suing Polo magazine, the official publication of the US polo organization, because Ralph Lauren made a cologne called Polo. Well, try making a radio and advertising it is "D-Star" compatible without paying Icom some hefty fees and see if you don't hear from their lawyers. This is what is going to stop D-Star, just the same as WIRES has died on the vine. You can argue about whether it is truly "proprietary" or not, but as long as Icom owns the trademark, it is Icom's. Funny, trademarks didn't keep anyone else from developing a Xerox Machine or alternatives to Kleenex. Your assumption here is that trademarks stifle innovation or adoption, and they don't. That's the patent's job. As additional Art, take a look at Apple's policy for use of the word "compatible". I'm guessing this is probably fairly representative of what the law of the land says, but I invite others to correct me. I also happen to know that EA doesn't pay Microsoft fees to say that their software is Windows 7 compatible.... Wires was Yaesu's attempt to recreate Echolink and IRLP. It failed because there was no need for it when there were two very active and well developed free technology already in place. DStar != echolink/IRLP. |
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Again, I am not "anti D-Star", I am just point out what I think is the problem with getting it more widely accepted. And I like Icom radios. I really wish that the other manufactures would join in. They can call it whatever they want. It would still work because of the vocoder. The price issue is because the $200 (or whatever the price is) vocoder chip. There have also been other hams that have built and I have seem some selling boards that you can use for other radios (namely Satoshi Yasuda 7M3TJZ) I have my one d-star radio and I love the technology. It is awesome being able to talk to another station from anywhere in the world and it sounds like they are next to me. Yes I know this can also be done with HF but I currently don't have a mobile HF rig (currently only have a Uniden 2020 boat anchor) and I still need to upgrade to general. I think d-star's ultimate advantage is in emergency comms. With the cost thing being said, I also own a alinco 220 mobile and I have a digital voice board in it for talking to some of my ham buddies where I live. I have had it for about 4 or so years but when I got the radio and the digi board I spent about 400 or bucks. anyway, It is a really cool technology and I hope it is here to stay and grow. ETA clarification and if you are on D-Star give me a shout sometime (only on the d-star air when mobile right now tho) K5TLF and primarily on the K5LIB machine. |