Posted: 8/18/2010 4:08:17 PM EDT
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I am looking to put a 2 meter radio in my truck. My question is about power. Am I going to notice a big jump in performance between 55, 65, or 75 watts? Or should I buy a 55 watt and spend more money on an antenna? My budget is 200 dollars. I am looking at the yaesu ft-1900r for $140 or I could hold out and save longer to get the Icom ICV8000. My goal is to be able to talk approx 90 miles into repeaters in my hometown when I am in a different city.
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| I am still new into the hobby, but I have a FT-1900 in my commo box and it works very well. I know from where I live in WI I can hit the Milwaukee Repeaters with no problem from anywhere I go. I have talked to some people in Racine/Kenosha from West Bend area via the 91 or the 513 repeaters but that is with my FT-8800 in my car |
50-55 is probably sufficient. More is better.  Those 25 extra watts mean the difference between making a simplex contact with someone or not (when all of the repeaters are off the air). That said, you can also improve your odds with a high-gain antenna. I have 8 mobile radios right now that range from 25-50W on VHF and I don't sweat it.
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With VHF, antenna height is more important than power. 31-mile contact using 1 watt: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=636439 |
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Quoted:
I am still new into the hobby, but I have a FT-1900 in my commo box and it works very well. I know from where I live in WI I can hit the Milwaukee Repeaters with no problem from anywhere I go. I have talked to some people in Racine/Kenosha from West Bend area via the 91 or the 513 repeaters but that is with my FT-8800 in my car Awesome to find someone from WI. I am wanting to check into the 91 Sunday night swap net when I leave Madison to come home to Milwaukee every Sunday night. I only have a 2 meter HT now, is there any activity the 440 band? I am trying to see if it would be worth it to at some point get a radio for it. I can currently hear 91 and 513 when I get around 70 miles away with my HT and a mag mount 1/4 wave MFJ antenna. My goal would be to be able to talk from Madison to Milwaukee, and occasionally try and check into Chicago area nets by driving a few miles. I can hear some of their nets with my HT and the rubber duck antenna. |
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50-55 is probably sufficient. More is better. Those 25 extra watts mean the difference between making a simplex contact with someone or not (when all of the repeaters are off the air). That said, you can also improve your odds with a high-gain antenna. I have 8 mobile radios right now that range from 25-50W on VHF and I don't sweat it.What would you recommend for a high gain antenna? I would like to spend 80 or less on an antenna. |
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I will have to look when I get home at my Freqs. I know of one that they call Milwaukee FM38 in the 440 range but don't remember the exact freq. I live in Ozaukee county so not to far from Milwaukee and we go out to visit the G/F's sister at school at UW Madison from time to time so I try to play radio as much as I can. 440 seems dead around this area.
If you go to the Candy Store (AES) let me know and I can drive down there I need to pick up some stuff anyway. I work 2nd shift so if you go on a Saturday in the morning let me know. |
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I will have to look when I get home at my Freqs. I know of one that they call Milwaukee FM38 in the 440 range but don't remember the exact freq. I live in Ozaukee county so not to far from Milwaukee and we go out to visit the G/F's sister at school at UW Madison from time to time so I try to play radio as much as I can. 440 seems dead around this area. If you go to the Candy Store (AES) let me know and I can drive down there I need to pick up some stuff anyway. I work 2nd shift so if you go on a Saturday in the morning let me know. My G/F lives in Madison, she is in school there. I drive to and from every weekend. I have been to AES twice, it is just far too long of a drive to go and window shop (plus their showroom isn't super fun to wander around.) It is disappointing that 440 is not active, I was wanting to branch out of the 2 meter band but it seems no one talks on anywhere else open to me as a tech. |
I've been using a FT-2900 and a mag mount antenna. I drive a full size Ford van and I have no problem hitting the MKE repeaters from Cleveland and over to north of Kiel. I'm pretty happy with the set up. Now, I just have to get my wife to stop hugging the curb on residential streets. I am starting to think that she enjoys watching me put the antenna back up.  My set up out the door from AES was ~$217 and that included a repeater directory. P. |
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I've been using a FT-2900 and a mag mount antenna. I drive a full size Ford van and I have no problem hitting the MKE repeaters from Cleveland and over to north of Kiel. I'm pretty happy with the set up. Now, I just have to get my wife to stop hugging the curb on residential streets. I am starting to think that she enjoys watching me put the antenna back up.
My set up out the door from AES was ~$217 and that included a repeater directory. P. What mag mount? |
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JaxShooter is correct on both antenna recomendations. I have the very same 4 element yagi beam, and it does an excellent job with both gain and radiation spread; I've found it works very well out to about 90 degrees. The "Gama Match" coax connection that comes with it is very well made and very easy to assemble.
The omni is a good recomendation also. A very easy hook-up with no tuning. I use a Ringo Ranger for my omni (it has a little more gain), but you do need to spend some time with a VSWR meter getting it dialed in. Probably not worth it unless you really like doing that sort of thing. For the Base Station, antenna height is what it's all about. Either one on a 20 foot pole (two of the "gray" 10 foot masts from Radio Shack) will get you way out there. For the moble installation, a 3dB gain mag mount in the center of the roof is all you will need. Radio wise, I have the Yaesu FT-2900R and the ICOM V-8000. I like them both. The speaker audio quality on the ICOM is a little better, especially at high volume levels. It also has the cooling fan, which users seem to be split on (I personally like it). But the Yaesu's microphone quality is, durability wise, a little better than the ICOM's. But you really can't go wrong with either one. |
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"High power" amateur radios are just a marketing gimmick to suck in the uninformed. 7 watt handhelds and 70 watt mobiles just aren't worth a premium over 5w/50w units.
You'd be very hard pressed to be able to detect any difference between a 50 watt and a 75 watt radio, other than the gauge of wire you have to run to it. Get a good antenna mounted properly on the vehicle and you'll rarely need more than 10 watts unless you do a lot of simplex work. Antenna on the roof instead of the trunk makes a lot more difference than the difference between 50w and 75w transmitter power - and it helps on receive too. Most probably don't know or realize, but a large percentage of repeaters run between 10 and 25 watts output power... more user output power isn't going to help you hear that repeater if you don't have enough antenna + receiver. If you're on a budget keep your eyes open for used/surplus/discarded land mobile antennas or antenna mounts from business or public safety users. Common 5/8 wave antennas for VHF high band will work well for 2m but will likely need a longer replacement whip. A whip is cheaper than a whole antenna, either way though they are usually less expensive than the "amateur" market antennas. All that said, 90 mile repeater coverage is only going to be happening from very wide-area coverage repeaters that are on really tall towers, mountaintops, etc. regardless of what kind of radio or antenna you have on a vehicle. Better bet would be to utilize linked repeaters that have local coverage where you are at and can link back to repeaters in the desired area. |
| I know I have heard people calling on the 513 all the way in Oconomowoc and sometimes west of there on I-94. They have very good repeater coverage with polling sites throughout the greater southeastern Wisconsin. At least I think it is the 513 I get confused between the 513 and 91 repeaters in Milwaukee. They have one site here in the city I live in north of Milwaukee. |
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Personally, I'd save up for the IC-V8000. Better radio, better output, better features. I'm just not a Yaesu fan. For an antenna, get the highest gain antenna you can realistically mount on your rig. A 5/8 wave whip on a spring and ball mount will outperform a smaller lip-mount or mag-mount antenna. Help me out here guys....isn't it: every 3 db of antenna gain effectively doubles the output power of your transceiver? |
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Thanks everyone for the input.
Gamma762 The repeater is 500 feet high and uses multiple receive locations, the one I would be able to hit is more or less 60 miles. Where do I find used land mobile gear for sale? JaxShooter Thanks for the antenna links, I am however looking for a mobile antenna. pcsutton I have heard that an antenna below the roof line is not as good as an antenna on the roof. I don't know how I feel about a 5/8 on the roof. I guess I am unsure about mobile antennas, would you please expand on your response? WING25C I have heard people talking from Sheboygan on either the 513 or 91. I know the 513 is S7 as soon as I get on I-94 leaving Madison. radioman12 Is the fan noise really noticeable on the Icom? One of the selling points for me on the Yaesu was the fact that there was no fan because the case was the heatsink. However a front speaker would be cool. |
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JaxShooter Thanks for the antenna links, I am however looking for a mobile antenna.
The only choice then is the Comet SBB-5. It's Arfcom approved! |
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Regarding the V-8000;
1)The fan noise is slightly audable, but not unpleasent. Plus, how can a fan blowing across the hot cooling fins be a bad thing? 2) The front firing speaker is really a good feature; it has a better audio quality than any other 2 meter rig I have heard. 3) The microphone, IMHO, is just a little fragile, and the PTT has been known to fail (easily fixed with a solder re-flow on the PCB). 4) Do you like a GREEN or a YELLOW screen? ICOM lets you choose (I usually like the color that is NOT selected at the moment). Regarding the Mag Mount Mobile antenna; 1) I like the Hustler MX-2. It's a real 5/8 wavelength for 2 meters, it has a very good magnet, and it's only $35.00! For another $5.00 you can replace the slightly cheesy PL-259 connector with a "good" one. Larsen is good to, but more money. A previous poster commented on the power 50 / 75 watt power issue. I'm with him; unless it's long range simplex, I rarely transmit on anything over 10 watts. Keep in mind that the gain on the antenna system also works equally for the receiver's sensitivity. That performance improvement will have a much greater benefit for you than bumping up the xmit power. Ninety miles on 2 meters will be tough from a moblie, and probably not doable unless you, or the party you are speaking with, is parked on a big hill or a small mountain. But if the terrain if favorable, it can be done from the same radio used as a base station, with a 7 to 10 dB gain antenna on a tall pole. |
| 90 miles around here is possible, this is done by some of the Clubs planning things out and putting their sites throughout the S/E part of the state here. One of them is on a 500 foot tall TV antenna ran by one of the news stations. The lowest site is on a 100 foot tower, but they are spaced far enough apart to have a very large coverage area. I have talked roughly 80 miles using one of the repeaters in our area both of us were on the fringe of the coverage area but were getting full quieting into the system. I am/was running a Yaesu FT-7900 and FT-8800. |
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Quoted: Thanks everyone for the input. Gamma762 The repeater is 500 feet high and uses multiple receive locations, the one I would be able to hit is more or less 60 miles. Where do I find used land mobile gear for sale? JaxShooter Thanks for the antenna links, I am however looking for a mobile antenna. pcsutton I have heard that an antenna below the roof line is not as good as an antenna on the roof. I don't know how I feel about a 5/8 on the roof. I guess I am unsure about mobile antennas, would you please expand on your response? WING25C I have heard people talking from Sheboygan on either the 513 or 91. I know the 513 is S7 as soon as I get on I-94 leaving Madison. radioman12 Is the fan noise really noticeable on the Icom? One of the selling points for me on the Yaesu was the fact that there was no fan because the case was the heatsink. However a front speaker would be cool. Using a 5/8 wave antenna mounted on a ball mount on the rear quarter panel still allows the radiating element to be above the roof line....which is usually the bigest ground plane reflector on everything but a standard cab pick-up truck. There may still be a tiny bit of signal directivity in mounting like this, but that's not always a bad thing. You can aim the signal a bit should you need to....kind of like a yagi. I can almost guarantee that by using a 6db gain 5/8 wave antenna (mounted so that the stinger is above the roof line) and being pushed with the 75 watts from a V-8000....will give you about the best signal you can get....sans an amplifier. Bear in mind that bonding the body pannels of your vehicle is a wise practice to enhance the ground plane and thus the signal. Check this site out for more complete info: http://www.k0bg.com/ Try this....it's short enough for a roof mount and will make 75 watts out sound like almost 220 watts: NR124NMO Monoband Mobile Antenna http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr124.html |
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Using a 5/8 wave antenna mounted on a ball mount on the rear quarter panel still allows the radiating element to be above the roof line....which is usually the bigest ground plane reflector on everything but a standard cab pick-up truck. I can almost guarantee that by using a 6db gain 5/8 wave antenna (mounted so that the stinger is above the roof line) and being pushed with the 75 watts from a V-8000....will give you about the best signal you can get....sans an amplifier. Try this....it's short enough for a roof mount and will make 75 watts out sound like almost 220 watts: NR124NMO Monoband Mobile Antenna http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr124.html I sense great fail in the force... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Using a 5/8 wave antenna mounted on a ball mount on the rear quarter panel still allows the radiating element to be above the roof line....which is usually the bigest ground plane reflector on everything but a standard cab pick-up truck. I can almost guarantee that by using a 6db gain 5/8 wave antenna (mounted so that the stinger is above the roof line) and being pushed with the 75 watts from a V-8000....will give you about the best signal you can get....sans an amplifier. Try this....it's short enough for a roof mount and will make 75 watts out sound like almost 220 watts: NR124NMO Monoband Mobile Antenna http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr124.html I sense great fail in the force... Care to elaborate? |
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Using a 5/8 wave antenna mounted on a ball mount on the rear quarter panel still allows the radiating element to be above the roof line....which is usually the bigest ground plane reflector on everything but a standard cab pick-up truck. I can almost guarantee that by using a 6db gain 5/8 wave antenna (mounted so that the stinger is above the roof line) and being pushed with the 75 watts from a V-8000....will give you about the best signal you can get....sans an amplifier. Try this....it's short enough for a roof mount and will make 75 watts out sound like almost 220 watts: NR124NMO Monoband Mobile Antenna http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr124.html I sense great fail in the force... Care to elaborate? You seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings about how antennas radiate RF energy, how ground planes work, the practical implications of those principles to mobile antenna mounting, the practical implications of gain figures and what some of those real figures are, etc. And also wondering why you are recommending a 1.2gHz antenna to someone asking about 2m. |
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"High power" amateur radios are just a marketing gimmick to suck in the uninformed. 7 watt handhelds and 70 watt mobiles just aren't worth a premium over 5w/50w units. You'd be very hard pressed to be able to detect any difference between a 50 watt and a 75 watt radio, other than the gauge of wire you have to run to it. Get a good antenna mounted properly on the vehicle and you'll rarely need more than 10 watts unless you do a lot of simplex work. Antenna on the roof instead of the trunk makes a lot more difference than the difference between 50w and 75w transmitter power - and it helps on receive too. (trimmed) Agreed! The little FT-1900R (I have the similar 1802 in my shack) is a nice little radio, and a good buy. I have the FT-2800M (similar to the current 2900) in my truck. While I don't think you will get 90 miles unless the repeaters are linked, the difference in power between most of the popular radios is moot. 50 watts, 75 watts, just not much difference. But at those frequencies it is not power that gets the job done. It is all antenna... and antenna height makes the difference. Like flying, "altitude is money in the bank." I can easily hit distant repeaters with just 10 watts from my shack radio, with the J-pole up about 25'. But I can't hit those same repeaters from my truck in the driveway with 65 watts. Once I spoke to a friend 50 miles away who was using his HT at just 5 watts... but hooked up to a yagi on his 50' tower. I told him it was a little noisy, but I could understand him. He said, "Oh, that's the A/C behind me (a window unit). Let me turn that off." He did and was then "full quiet". I can also tell the difference, when out on the highway, between my two truck antennas. One is a 1/2 wave, Comet SBB-5 NMO (38" tall). The other, a Diamond 92 something, a little 1/4 wave (14" tall) that I use around town to keep from hitting limbs overhanging some of the boulevards. I usually use the short one around town, the taller SBB-5 on the road, and it makes a difference. Of your budget, I'd put more money into antenna and less into radio. The 1900 would be a good choice. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Using a 5/8 wave antenna mounted on a ball mount on the rear quarter panel still allows the radiating element to be above the roof line....which is usually the bigest ground plane reflector on everything but a standard cab pick-up truck. I can almost guarantee that by using a 6db gain 5/8 wave antenna (mounted so that the stinger is above the roof line) and being pushed with the 75 watts from a V-8000....will give you about the best signal you can get....sans an amplifier. Try this....it's short enough for a roof mount and will make 75 watts out sound like almost 220 watts: NR124NMO Monoband Mobile Antenna http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr124.html I sense great fail in the force... Care to elaborate? You seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings about how antennas radiate RF energy, how ground planes work, the practical implications of those principles to mobile antenna mounting, the practical implications of gain figures and what some of those real figures are, etc. And also wondering why you are recommending a 1.2gHz antenna to someone asking about 2m. With regard to the antenna I linked to...I grabbed the wrong link. Here is the one I meant to post: http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/nr22l.html |
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Thanks everyone for the responses. I have decided on the Yaesu ft-1900r. I am also going to go with the Comet SBB-5. My final question is about the mount, it is available in PO or NMO. Which do I want? I have a pickup and am unwilling to put a hole in the roof of it. Should I go mag mount or is there a better solution. Do they make a mount to fit in the hole on a bed rail? I understand a mag mount will damage the paint, everywhere I searched about mounts everyone seems to talk nothing but bad about the mag mount.
Again I want to express my thanks for all the responses. This thread really made my decision easier, and I learned quite a bit about my new hobby. |
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I'm partial to the NMO mount. You can certainly do a stake pocket mount. I don't have them so I just used L brackets. Note: There are now two antennas, one on either side. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/radio/truck/_DSC0307.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/radio/truck/_DSC0312.jpg Those type of mounts are not weatherproof by the way... |
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Comet SBB-5 NMO
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/3910.html Mount is the CP-5 NMO: http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamantm/1018.html The mount includes coax. 
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