Posted: 6/18/2010 6:28:54 PM EDT
Ok so I've had my Yaesu 8800 now for a few months and am starting to wonder if there's any type of cool packet radio stuff I can get into with VHF/UHF or is most of the data stuff that's worth doing in the HF world? Probably won't be getting my HF gear until December, so I'm just curious if there's anything else to be doing while I wait  If there's cool programs or toys I can run on VHF/UHF let me know what they are  |
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Unfortunately old school packet is pretty much dead. APRS is the only game in town for packet activity. I do hear some packet on HF, 14.105? occasionally.
A fellow ham and ARFCOMMER and I used to use packet like Yahoo IM's between our shacks. We would monitor the DX cluster on 2m packet and chat on 220mhz packet. You might like to monitor the APRS freq 144.39. I used a program "multipsk" to decode the packets, but the program is really bad. There has to be a better program but lost interest in looking at strings of text..  I'm sure someone will chime in and suggest a better option.
Do you have a GPS? You can become an APRS station and participate rather than listen. This would require some additional hardware like a Tiny-Trak or similar. |
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Quoted: If you want to watch the APRS strings and see what people are sending download UIview and connect an audio cable from the speaker jack of the radio to the mic in on the computer. Ooh that sounds interesting - I'll give that a shot. So I guess there's nothing really out there to trade text strings back and forth with others? Figured there must be something cool I was missing for a packet based chat room or something similar. Does anything like that exist in HF land? I had been looking at the main APRS site and I must be missing the "APRS primer for idiots" because the site is somewhat confusing for a n00b  ETA: Wow, this is some old archaic shit... no APRS clients that will run under 64-bit win7? I can't seem to get UIView or the actual aprs software to run. Mmmff... Oh wait, I may have UIView32 working now at least - although I'm waiting on the registration code. |
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If you want to watch the APRS strings and see what people are sending download UIview and connect an audio cable from the speaker jack of the radio to the mic in on the computer. Ooh that sounds interesting - I'll give that a shot. So I guess there's nothing really out there to trade text strings back and forth with others? Figured there must be something cool I was missing for a packet based chat room or something similar. Does anything like that exist in HF land? I had been looking at the main APRS site and I must be missing the "APRS primer for idiots" because the site is somewhat confusing for a n00b
ETA: Wow, this is some old archaic shit... no APRS clients that will run under 64-bit win7? I can't seem to get UIView or the actual aprs software to run. Mmmff... Oh wait, I may have UIView32 working now at least - although I'm waiting on the registration code. There are some programs that let you send text back and forth and a cannot for the life of me remember any of them. In hf land there is psk31 and a ton of programs for running psk. It is a keyboard to keyboard type system. In my opinion Digipan is the way to go with a stand alone client for psk31. Also the gentleman that wrote UIView has passed and destroyed the source code. I have a friend that is working on a 64 bit alternative but his APRS telemetry client is taking up most of his time at the moment. |
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Ok, was just looking at the Byonics TinyTrak boxes and trying to figure out how they tie into the radio as well Seems like pretty interesting tech, although in a non-power disaster, I'm not sure how useful a big bulky setup with a computer would be. I see they manage to tie in to GPS units with screens as well to allow for typing messages out on that, but not sure I want to dump that kind of money into it. Was more or less interested in a simple text messaging system or some of the BBS type interfaces I've seen referenced a few times. Thanks for the info. |
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Ok, was just looking at the Byonics TinyTrak boxes and trying to figure out how they tie into the radio as well Seems like pretty interesting tech, although in a non-power disaster, I'm not sure how useful a big bulky setup with a computer would be. I see they manage to tie in to GPS units with screens as well to allow for typing messages out on that, but not sure I want to dump that kind of money into it. Was more or less interested in a simple text messaging system or some of the BBS type interfaces I've seen referenced a few times. Thanks for the info. You do not need to connect the gps to the tiny trak. You can use it as a simple tnc and add the screen and keyboard if you see you using that. |
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Depending on your area you could try monitoring freqs like 145.010, .030, .050 etc. And by monitoring I mean turn the radio on with the PC hooked up and wait for an hour or so to see if anything pops up. You could be in an area that has some packet activity. Chances are you aren't. It seems that 15 or so years ago there were some semi-interesting packet related things to do. Now, not so much. And as you're seeing all the software has been left by the wayside since Win98.
UI-View32 actually does work and works well. Even after the author has been gone for 5 years which is amazing. If you get some of the add-ons running you'll be able to load maps dynamically (and save them and their config files), see Weather Alerts and their areas on the maps... there are other things but I can't remember them. In the end the novelty wears off in about a week. Maybe two if you have a mobile tracker to watch yourself. BPQ32 is a packet BBS based system with currect, active development. It is also VERY Beta or maybe even ALPHA type software. There's a yahoo group for its support but most of the people there are light years ahead of a beginner so the problems they're working through aren't very helpful. |
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Depending on your area you could try monitoring freqs like 145.010, .030, .050 etc. And by monitoring I mean turn the radio on with the PC hooked up and wait for an hour or so to see if anything pops up. You could be in an area that has some packet activity. Chances are you aren't. It seems that 15 or so years ago there were some semi-interesting packet related things to do. Now, not so much. And as you're seeing all the software has been left by the wayside since Win98.
UI-View32 actually does work and works well. Even after the author has been gone for 5 years which is amazing. If you get some of the add-ons running you'll be able to load maps dynamically (and save them and their config files), see Weather Alerts and their areas on the maps... there are other things but I can't remember them. In the end the novelty wears off in about a week. Maybe two if you have a mobile tracker to watch yourself. BPQ32 is a packet BBS based system with currect, active development. It is also VERY Beta or maybe even ALPHA type software. There's a yahoo group for its support but most of the people there are light years ahead of a beginner so the problems they're working through aren't very helpful. That is disturbing.. MSYS was big back when I was into it. I still have the software and some old dinosaur computers to run it on. 
I would love to get a packet network going. "The ARFCOM Packet Radio Network". let me know if there is any interest in getting one going. 
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Ok, was just looking at the Byonics TinyTrak boxes and trying to figure out how they tie into the radio as well Seems like pretty interesting tech, although in a non-power disaster, I'm not sure how useful a big bulky setup with a computer would be. I see they manage to tie in to GPS units with screens as well to allow for typing messages out on that, but not sure I want to dump that kind of money into it. Was more or less interested in a simple text messaging system or some of the BBS type interfaces I've seen referenced a few times. Thanks for the info. You do not need to connect the gps to the tiny trak. You can use it as a simple tnc and add the screen and keyboard if you see you using that. Only the TT4 can be used as a KISS TNC and do messaging. The TT3 will not. Personally I'm more a fan of the OpenTracker+ from Argent Data Systems. Much more flexibility at less than the price of the TT3. I have one as a KISS TNC for UI-View and several others as beaconing trackers. I'm pretty familiar with these if you have any questions. I own the TT4 but it's still in parts. We have a packet network in Florida for emergency comms but beyond that there's very little (perhaps non-existent) packet activity. I've done some rudimentary tests with NBEMS over 2M SSB but you really have to pick the right mode for things like file transfers. Works fine for texting though. I wouldn't run in over FM as it defeats the narrowband part.
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Ok, was just looking at the Byonics TinyTrak boxes and trying to figure out how they tie into the radio as well Seems like pretty interesting tech, although in a non-power disaster, I'm not sure how useful a big bulky setup with a computer would be. I see they manage to tie in to GPS units with screens as well to allow for typing messages out on that, but not sure I want to dump that kind of money into it. Was more or less interested in a simple text messaging system or some of the BBS type interfaces I've seen referenced a few times. Thanks for the info. You do not need to connect the gps to the tiny trak. You can use it as a simple tnc and add the screen and keyboard if you see you using that. Only the TT4 can be used as a KISS TNC and do messaging. The TT3 will not. Personally I'm more a fan of the OpenTracker+ from Argent Data Systems. Much more flexibility at less than the price of the TT3. I have one as a KISS TNC for UI-View and several others as beaconing trackers. I'm pretty familiar with these if you have any questions. I own the TT4 but it's still in parts. We have a packet network in Florida for emergency comms but beyond that there's very little (perhaps non-existent) packet activity. I've done some rudimentary tests with NBEMS over 2M SSB but you really have to pick the right mode for things like file transfers. Works fine for texting though. I wouldn't run in over FM as it defeats the narrowband part. Hijack: I have a need for real time tracking for a business. Is it possible to interface a business radio with the GPS to operate like APRS but on a business feq like 153.845? Its a very small coverage area, and GPS based real time tracking has subscription fees, etc, so the cost of the GPS based tracking would be excessive when our alternate freq could be used for tracking. |
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Hijack: I have a need for real time tracking for a business. Is it possible to interface a business radio with the GPS to operate like APRS but on a business feq like 153.845? Its a very small coverage area, and GPS based real time tracking has subscription fees, etc, so the cost of the GPS based tracking would be excessive when our alternate freq could be used for tracking. Garmin Rhino? |
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Hijack: I have a need for real time tracking for a business. Is it possible to interface a business radio with the GPS to operate like APRS but on a business feq like 153.845? Its a very small coverage area, and GPS based real time tracking has subscription fees, etc, so the cost of the GPS based tracking would be excessive when our alternate freq could be used for tracking. If you have the business license I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The tracker doesn't care about the frequency. However, you'd have to provide your own igate on your custom freq to propagate the info to the online sources (unless you only care about seeing it locally via UI-View, Xastir, etc) and possibly a digipeater or two (may not be necessary depending on how small your "small coverage area" is. I've made interface cables for Icom, Yaesu, and Motorola so it shouldn't be too hard for you to accomplish your goal. |
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Hijack: I have a need for real time tracking for a business. Is it possible to interface a business radio with the GPS to operate like APRS but on a business feq like 153.845? Its a very small coverage area, and GPS based real time tracking has subscription fees, etc, so the cost of the GPS based tracking would be excessive when our alternate freq could be used for tracking. If you have the business license I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The tracker doesn't care about the frequency. However, you'd have to provide your own igate on your custom freq to propagate the info to the online sources (unless you only care about seeing it locally via UI-View, Xastir, etc) and possibly a digipeater or two (may not be necessary depending on how small your "small coverage area" is. I've made interface cables for Icom, Yaesu, and Motorola so it shouldn't be too hard for you to accomplish your goal. It would only be a local tracking system so it wouldn't need to be online. The area would be about 4 miles square at the largest. The real problem is the older radios being used. Right now we have everything from Motorola Radius M130s and older, to Motorola CDM750s. This really has got me thinking as something low budget and utilizing available equipment would be ideal. Thanks for the info |
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Quoted: Only the TT4 can be used as a KISS TNC and do messaging. The TT3 will not. Personally I'm more a fan of the OpenTracker+ from Argent Data Systems. Much more flexibility at less than the price of the TT3. I have one as a KISS TNC for UI-View and several others as beaconing trackers. I'm pretty familiar with these if you have any questions. I own the TT4 but it's still in parts. So can I use Yaesu's data cable to connect to the OpenTracker+ (and/or the TT4)? I assume so, but can't seem to find a good pic of the Yaesu cable - I'm assuming it's a 6-pin DIN connector for the radio end and a DB9 serial connection on the other end that just plugs into the TNC. Then from there you just run a normal DB9 serial cable to your comp, or do you run a null modem cable? Does one still need to run audio cable from the spkr output to the input on your sound card, or does the packet cable and TNC take care of all the transmission and avoid the need for the soundcard? Thanks for all the ideas guys. |
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It would only be a local tracking system so it wouldn't need to be online. The area would be about 4 miles square at the largest. The real problem is the older radios being used. Right now we have everything from Motorola Radius M130s and older, to Motorola CDM750s. This really has got me thinking as something low budget and utilizing available equipment would be ideal. Thanks for the info Shouldn't be a problem as long as you have the pinout for the radio. I currently have a Radius M120 that's dedicated to APRS. Here's a tip that baffled me for a while: don't use the mic jack. Use the accessory port on the back of the radio. That's the only way I was able to get it working. I never confirmed it but I had a similar problem with the IC-2000H where there isn't enough current available during Tx at the mic connector. I picked up a 16-pin accessory kit from my Moto dealer and wired it right up. Works great. Only problem is that I managed to blow an internal fuse and now I have to put 12V to the ignition sense (pin 13 I think) or the radio won't turn on. 
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So can I use Yaesu's data cable to connect to the OpenTracker+ (and/or the TT4)? I assume so, but can't seem to find a good pic of the Yaesu cable - I'm assuming it's a 6-pin DIN connector for the radio end and a DB9 serial connection on the other end that just plugs into the TNC. Then from there you just run a normal DB9 serial cable to your comp, or do you run a null modem cable? Does one still need to run audio cable from the spkr output to the input on your sound card, or does the packet cable and TNC take care of all the transmission and avoid the need for the soundcard? Thanks for all the ideas guys. To be honest I never tried using my data cable. I was so focused on making a cable it didn't even cross my mind until well after the fact. Your assumption is correct on the radio to TNC connections and it's a null cable to the PC. The TinyTrak and OpenTracker are identical in their pinouts so a cable for one is a cable for the other. My cables are three-legged: data, audio, power. You need the audio so the tracker has carrier detect and (hopefully) doesn't tx on top of another station. I thought I had some pics of my cables but maybe I haven't uploaded them yet. |
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Back in the 90's packet was king. There were BBS's almost everywhere. I swapped and traded all kinds of gear on the boards and exchanged emails around the world. Then the Internet came along....and now it seems that nobody really cares about VHF packet. However if there was a major disaster, packet would be good to have in your kit for Emcomm traffic. |
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now it seems that nobody really cares about VHF packet. However if there was a major disaster, packet would be good to have in your kit for Emcomm traffic. Very true. As a real-world example, in 2007 you may have seen in the news about the T2 chemical plant in Jacksonville exploding. They made fuel additives and the explosion rocked buildings for a considerable distance. The first word of the event to the state EOC was delivered via the packet network. fwiw... The explosion and fire on December 19, 2007, killed four T2 employees and injured four others. In addition, 28 people working at nearby businesses were injured when building walls and windows blew in. The blast sent debris up to a mile away and damaged buildings within a quarter-mile of the facility. |
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"The ARFCOM Packet Radio Network". let me know if there is any interest in getting one going.
I'd be interested. I've had zero luck with VHF/UHF digital, but amazing luck with HF digital. We had another thread going about this a couple weeks ago. That's when I ran through a bunch of the different software options and decided they were all crap.  If SHTF then packet, even VHF/UHF packet would be great. The real trick here would be to find enough willing ARFCOM hams to come up with a decent network even if just for a novelty. Hell, I'd be willing to tag onto non-ARFCOM networks just to make the distance. Now someone find me some semi-capable software that can be configured by someone with over 15 years in the IT industry. (seriously.....)
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You're doing it wrong. 
What software have you tried? Apparently I missed the other thread. Lol trust me, this stuff is dead.... I've gotten the furthest with BPQ32. Try installing and running WinFBB on Win7 once. With BPQ I get to the point of absolutely giving up and run it one more time and it seems to get a step further. Keep in mind this is no where near sending RF out. Just getting it to run through a local terminal.
I guess the real question is what do you want to do with packet? If you get say, BPQMailChat up and running enough to access it you'll ask what it's for. Sure, you can type to another ham just like a IRC chat. Big deal. I can do that with PSK31 over greater distances with less power. Pass messages? Well, WinLink has that setup cornered whether we like it or not. Really the only use for VHF packet, at the moment, is getting a WinLink email to the internet. Now if we were to string enough ARFCOM based PBBS's together to have a super-secret HAM Forum or such... well that would be useful. 
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"The ARFCOM Packet Radio Network". let me know if there is any interest in getting one going.
I'd be interested. I've had zero luck with VHF/UHF digital, but amazing luck with HF digital. We had another thread going about this a couple weeks ago. That's when I ran through a bunch of the different software options and decided they were all crap. If SHTF then packet, even VHF/UHF packet would be great. The real trick here would be to find enough willing ARFCOM hams to come up with a decent network even if just for a novelty. Hell, I'd be willing to tag onto non-ARFCOM networks just to make the distance. Now someone find me some semi-capable software that can be configured by someone with over 15 years in the IT industry. (seriously.....)You should contact SVGA-1, a member here and an Ohio resident. He and I were into the packet thing in the 90's. He might be willing to participate in the network. He has a PK900 TNC which would work as a gateway to HF IIRC. Crap...you guys got me going on packet..again..
I have some DOS based packet programs if you want copies, but they all require a TNC2 type "packet box". |
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I think i've got APRS working. Loaded AGWTracker and AGWPE. says it's transmitting, and it is receiving signals. Not quite sure to whom or what exactly I'm looking at... but it's doing something. lol... Now see, you're proving a point of mine. (or at least one I was trying to make) APRS is THE reason I got into HAM radio back in 2001. Right now you can load up AGWPE, UI-VIEW, pactch a wire from speaker into the mic slot on a PC and see things happen. Even though Roger has been dead for 5 years UI-View still functions. All the packet programs start with "DOS" or at the most Win98. Hell, some of the readme.txt files mention Desqview! (I had a BBS running under Desqview... about 1994.) There are hardware solutions, TNCs you can use that will work together I guess.... they even still sell some of them new. They cost as much as a new radio or more. So unless you have one laying around, the software/sound card route is going to be the easiest. There just isn't much of an option on software. The two main programs available are WinFbb/LinFBB and BPQ32. BPQ is actually under development while everything else is "dead." If you want to have any success with WinFBB either run Win98 or you may have some luck in Win7 using compatibility mode. I got it to kind of run once that way but not completely. I had very little luck with LinFBB. I am proficient in Linux but not an expert. I could, however, get XASTIR to work perfectly with very little trouble. Score another one for APRS.  BPQ32 I have installed under WinXP and have the minimal install working. This basically allows you to attach to the BQPMailChat engine with the BPQTerminal progam. There isn't much that can happen from there.
What I've also found is a general lack of information on any of this on the internet. Google knows all does not apply to packet radio. There seems to be some revival in Indiana and Kentucky with multi-node networks running. I'm about 15 miles from each of those states but the activity is much further than that. Otherwise I'd put more effort into trying to bring the connectivity "across the rivier" as it were. I'm also about 35 miles south of Dayton. You want to talk about a place with ZERO packet activity. Head to the home of Hamvention......
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"The ARFCOM Packet Radio Network". let me know if there is any interest in getting one going.
I'd be interested. I've had zero luck with VHF/UHF digital, but amazing luck with HF digital. We had another thread going about this a couple weeks ago. That's when I ran through a bunch of the different software options and decided they were all crap. If SHTF then packet, even VHF/UHF packet would be great. The real trick here would be to find enough willing ARFCOM hams to come up with a decent network even if just for a novelty. Hell, I'd be willing to tag onto non-ARFCOM networks just to make the distance. Now someone find me some semi-capable software that can be configured by someone with over 15 years in the IT industry. (seriously.....)You should contact SVGA-1, a member here and an Ohio resident. He and I were into the packet thing in the 90's. He might be willing to participate in the network. He has a PK900 TNC which would work as a gateway to HF IIRC. Crap...you guys got me going on packet..again..
I have some DOS based packet programs if you want copies, but they all require a TNC2 type "packet box". I can get my old packet stuff back on the air...just need a good packet program to use with the PK900. I lost the AEA software that came with it over the years. I like the old school packet stuff cause all you needed was a small rig, a tnc, and a cheap cpu (optional after setup) to get on the air. It was a blast connecting to a AZ station on 10m back in the day from Ohio! KB7DX probably still remembers that station. I miss the old Ramsey kits Brad....lol. |
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I'm playing with a TH-D7 on a 4' antenna (collapsable) and hitting several packet stations. Then I'm seeing who they can see and trying to reach out further. Yes this is probably trivial to old timers and boring to everyone else. I'm just seeing where I can get on minimal equipment. I could always go downstairs on the FT-1500M connected to the 21' vertical outside. Or even hook the vertical into the FT-847, though I'm not sure that would get me any further than the mobile honestly. I can get out, but can't get to anything "interesting."
Just trying to keep the thread and interest alive..... |
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Back in the day (man I feel old) SVGA-1 and I connected to my PBBS in central Ohio from near Wheeling W.VA....mobile! Made 3 node hops and changed bands on a gateway near my house and left some mail in my mailbox.
CONNECT: KB8LRS VIA W8XXX VIA K8HHH VIA KB8XXX etc... Almose like trying to remember DOS commands.
Gotta go dig out MSYS and see if I can get it running on an old machine.
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I'm playing with a TH-D7 on a 4' antenna (collapsable) and hitting several packet stations. Then I'm seeing who they can see and trying to reach out further. Yes this is probably trivial to old timers and boring to everyone else. I'm just seeing where I can get on minimal equipment. I could always go downstairs on the FT-1500M connected to the 21' vertical outside. Or even hook the vertical into the FT-847, though I'm not sure that would get me any further than the mobile honestly. I can get out, but can't get to anything "interesting."
Just trying to keep the thread and interest alive..... This stuff isn't boring to me, and I'm trying to follow what you guys are talking about. I have zero knowledge about packet, but it sounds like something I'd be interested in participating in when I get my radio back and on the air. Maybe you guys can figure out what us newbies would need to have a plug and play kit. Kinda' a "packet for dummies from scratch" kind of thing... I already plan on trying Psk31, Olivia, etc. when I get my crap together. Why not try packet?
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