Posted: 4/28/2010 11:52:46 PM EDT
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Lots of people here talk about getting in touch with their families / SO if trouble starts. The problem is... EVERYONE is listening! Ham repeaters, CB, whatever: the comms are NOT secure.
Wife: "Honey, I'm broken down behind the Wal-Mart, you know, the one by the industrial zone." Husband: "I'll be there ASAP." Husband finds empty car with broken window. Most of us have guns; some have SOs who don't or won't carry one; many of us live in evil states where it is not legal to carry a gun in the car. And we all know (but may not admit it) that the best way to win a gunfight is to not start one. How do you handle this? How do "code-talk" in order to get the message across, yet not let everyone in the world know that your wife is, essentially, stranded and helpless? Comments? |
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Locational positioning of an operator vs where his "valuables" is an issue.
More likely a risk if advantaged by opportunists, with a more serious targeting not needing the broadcast monitoring. Interesting issue. 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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I don't like telling people that I'm "/mobile" as I'm paranoid that someone will then go to my house and take my stuff. 
I need moar code talk.... My elmer feels exactly the same way, and he chastises me whenever I say it. He prefers to indicate that he's listening/monitoring rather than mobile. |
Oh great, now you've made me paranoid ... well okay, MORE paranoid  Although I don't think your average thief is likely listening to hams and looking up callsigns as mentioned above. They also don't know if you live alone, or if your man-eating guard dog is at the house waiting for him. In my case, it's the latter   |
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Oh great, now you've made me paranoid ... well okay, MORE paranoid
Although I don't think your average thief is likely listening to hams and looking up callsigns as mentioned above. They also don't know if you live alone, or if your man-eating guard dog is at the house waiting for him. In my case, it's the latter +1 only my man eating guard dog is black and tan
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Oh great, now you've made me paranoid ... well okay, MORE paranoid
Although I don't think your average thief is likely listening to hams and looking up callsigns as mentioned above. They also don't know if you live alone, or if your man-eating guard dog is at the house waiting for him. In my case, it's the latter
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs456.ash1/25072_330340991499_718646499_4253485_1519313_n.jpg Cute Doggy! 
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Find me someone who becomes a victim because of what they communicate over a ham. Even a lose connection to being targeted will do. Then I will start to listen more intently to the argument that criminals are tracking who is home and when to break into their house/car. As for me I let my kids walk to school without an adult, I have no problem indicating that I am mobile, and will continue to occasionally run with scissors.
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Interesting. I trust my friends not to run to my house to clean it out while I'm mobile and trust that most criminals aren't scanning the repeater freqs and looking up call signs on QRZ. It ain't my friends that I'm concerned with. 
That's why I included the rest of it. 
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Find me someone who becomes a victim because of what they communicate over a ham. Even a lose connection to being targeted will do. Then I will start to listen more intently to the argument that criminals are tracking who is home and when to break into their house/car. As for me I let my kids walk to school without an adult, I have no problem indicating that I am mobile, and will continue to occasionally run with scissors. B...b...but....That's not paranoid enough! 
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This was actually brought up in my Technician class.
"People are listening..." They might be, and they might figure out I'm not at home, etc. Personally, I refuse to live in fear of every little thing, and this is every little thing. If someone's listening, then so be it. I only hope they aren't there when I get home. |
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This was actually brought up in my Technician class. "People are listening..." They might be, and they might figure out I'm not at home, etc. Personally, I refuse to live in fear of every little thing, and this is every little thing. If someone's listening, then so be it. I only hope they aren't are there when I get home. Fixed it... If SHTF, you might think about a few "code words" for OPSEC. |
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if you have your actual 911 address on your license then it was fail from the start. PO box is all thats required.i have neighbors that would call me the instant they see someone snooping around my house. plus, im poor so i have nothing to steal. Well, like most normal, working people, my FCC license is going to point directly to me. I'm still not interested in SHTF bullsh*t. |
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if you have your actual 911 address on your license then it was fail from the start. PO box is all thats required.i have neighbors that would call me the instant they see someone snooping around my house. plus, im poor so i have nothing to steal. Well, like most normal, working people, my FCC license is going to point directly to me. I'm still not interested in SHTF bullsh*t. but all thats listed is your name and po box(if thats what you used). the guys that are freaking out apparently have there actual house address listed. me, i dont really care. 99% of the time when im mobile my wife is home or my neighbors are home. we watch over each others homes because we are all friends. my neighbor actually stopped a brake in a few months ago. one of our other neighbors ex boyfriends tried to brake into her house and he caught him and held him till the SO got there. |
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if you have your actual 911 address on your license then it was fail from the start. PO box is all thats required.i have neighbors that would call me the instant they see someone snooping around my house. plus, im poor so i have nothing to steal. Well, like most normal, working people, my FCC license is going to point directly to me. I'm still not interested in SHTF bullsh*t. If your put down your home address on your FCC license then that's your business. Personally, I consider it bad business. I've run across more than one ham in the local area that tried to help out in public service events that were convicted felons. One was even trying to work a bicycle race as a person that would pick up people with broken down bikes in his pickup truck along the race route. That guy was not only a convicted felon but plead guilty to rape and spent 7 years in prison. Yeah, picking up women with broken down bikes along during this race. Lovely. So, I would encourage doing a little background check on people. Wolves in the sheep pen are not always dressed like wolves. If you aren't interested in his SHTF bullsh*t then hopefully he isn't interested in listening to another one of the sheeple with their heads in the sand. Frank was right on the money with his post. A little bit of discretion can go a long way. |
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Lots of people here talk about getting in touch with their families / SO if trouble starts. The problem is... EVERYONE is listening! Ham repeaters, CB, whatever: the comms are NOT secure. Wife: "Honey, I'm broken down behind the Wal-Mart, you know, the one by the industrial zone." Husband: "I'll be there ASAP." Husband finds empty car with broken window. Most of us have guns; some have SOs who don't or won't carry one; many of us live in evil states where it is not legal to carry a gun in the car. And we all know (but may not admit it) that the best way to win a gunfight is to not start one. How do you handle this? How do "code-talk" in order to get the message across, yet not let everyone in the world know that your wife is, essentially, stranded and helpless? Comments? Every family should have agreed and memorized "code words" for troubles. Consider any mode of communications as unsecure. Related, have some fall back plans for regrouping - where do you go if..... As for the example, you have hit the nail on the head - unexpected events (in this case a breakdown) can force use of unsecure communications links to carry traffic that could compromise safety. It is a decision and trade-off that has to be made on the fly. BTW while the hubby was responding to find the empty car, they burgled his house too.... 
Or perhaps the story played out differently - hubby dispatched a AAA wrecker and a cab, while he was in route? Or the pretty wife was standing next to the car weaver-stanced holding the attackers at pistol point, after disarming them when they thought she was "just a little woman?" Maybe the lesson really is "Good comms OPSEC won't fix bad physical security OPSEC (being in the dangerous local in the first place, without self-defense), though bad comms OPSEC sure has a risk of making bad physical security OPSEC worse?" 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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Lots of people here talk about getting in touch with their families / SO if trouble starts. The problem is... EVERYONE is listening! Ham repeaters, CB, whatever: the comms are NOT secure. Wife: "Honey, I'm broken down behind the Wal-Mart, you know, the one by the industrial zone." Husband: "I'll be there ASAP." Husband finds empty car with broken window. Most of us have guns; some have SOs who don't or won't carry one; many of us live in evil states where it is not legal to carry a gun in the car. And we all know (but may not admit it) that the best way to win a gunfight is to not start one. How do you handle this? How do "code-talk" in order to get the message across, yet not let everyone in the world know that your wife is, essentially, stranded and helpless? Comments? Every family should have agreed and memorized "code words" for troubles. Consider any mode of communications as unsecure. Related, have some fall back plans for regrouping - where do you go if..... As for the example, you have hit the nail on the head - unexpected events (in this case a breakdown) can force use of unsecure communications links to carry traffic that could compromise safety. It is a decision and trade-off that has to be made on the fly. BTW while the hubby was responding to find the empty car, they burgled his house too....
Or perhaps the story played out differently - hubby dispatched a AAA wrecker and a cab, while he was in route? Or the pretty wife was standing next to the car weaver-stanced holding the attackers at pistol point, after disarming them when they thought she was "just a little woman?" Maybe the lesson really is "Good comms OPSEC won't fix bad physical security OPSEC (being in the dangerous local in the first place, without self-defense), though bad comms OPSEC sure has a risk of making bad physical security OPSEC worse?" 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings In case anyone missed that. +1 We have a "drop everything now" and a duress code word. |
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We have a "drop everything now" and a duress code word. Your distress phrases might include a few more items - Go to our rendezvous point. - Don't call again unless emergency (may be under monitoring situation). - Wait until I contact you again. - Start our Family plan "A".."B"...or so on - Rescue me, all others considered hostile. and so on.... 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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I really think that if persons with evil intent are monitoring radio frequencies, it would be the local police comms.
First: how many gangbangers are going to listen to the haemorrhoid and arthritis crowd do their hour long daily tales of woe and misery just to ferret out a possible target? (Could the more irritating of us really pose an advantage some day?) Second: I have never reprogrammed a scanner for someone and found amateur radio frequencies in it unless it originally came from a ham. Third: Use your cell phones for comms others don't really need to hear until a SHTF event gridlocks the network. The police around here use either cell phones or Nextel when comsec is needed. RS |
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I really think that if persons with evil intent are monitoring radio frequencies, it would be the local police comms. First: how many gangbangers are going to listen to the haemorrhoid and arthritis crowd do their hour long daily tales of woe and misery just to ferret out a possible target? (Could the more irritating of us really pose an advantage some day?) Second: I have never reprogrammed a scanner for someone and found amateur radio frequencies in it unless it originally came from a ham. Third: Use your cell phones for comms others don't really need to hear until a SHTF event gridlocks the network. The police around here use either cell phones or Nextel when comsec is needed. RS In a serious SHTF situation, the ONLY people using cell phones will be the police/fire/emergency services! Basically... at the flip of a switch, the cell system can be reserved for those who have a special PIN to enter the system. The rest of us will be unable to use it. This keeps it from gridlocking the cell system, and makes it available for the EMS folks. THAT is the best reason I can think of for having radio of any sort available! |
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I really think that if persons with evil intent are monitoring radio frequencies, it would be the local police comms. I really think that if persons with evil intent are monitoring radio frequencies, it could be the local police. Well not exactly the police, but if the Katrina-reponse experience every played out elsewhere if has become obvious that whatever intentions the responders had rogue elements who were no better than looters and jackboots. OPSEC and Comsec, within reason, are good regular practices. As for those so say bs, I don't think they have reflected how much Comsec has become part of our natural lives - examples we know we shouldn't give out credit card information without some security - people will put together an order by cell phone and then tell the store "I'll call you with my card information from a landline." We've learned to have caution about misuse of our SSNs (did you get your new plastic pilot's license replacing the misuse of the pilot's SSN with a license number?), bank passwords, heh how about that little verification code on (CV2) on credit cards, passport numbers....... Use of Comsec is not even a question. What is at question is to what detail it is useful, practical and expedient in varying situations. As for SHTF one can over concern themselves with remotest of possibilities and play at planning for endless scenarios - perhaps even fixating on these at the expense of living a satisfying life. But to completely discount it is just as rash. Finding the personally comfortable balance is a really huge area of YMMV. Yes YOUR (Personal, Uniquely Yours) Milage May Vary. We need to respect that (guess that is my plea to drop the "it is BS" - "no it isn't" mistake of not respecting YMMV). 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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No, you haven't fixed it. I don't worry one bit about OPSEC on the air. Keep your SHTF fantasy bullsh*t to yourself. So how are things in Mendota Heights, MN ? Fine. It's a nice day here. Is this supposed to frighten me? Nope, just showing how easy it is to find out where you live- near a nice county club, so if someone was looking to target you it would not be hard. |
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No, you haven't fixed it. I don't worry one bit about OPSEC on the air. Keep your SHTF fantasy bullsh*t to yourself. So how are things in Mendota Heights, MN ? Fine. It's a nice day here. Is this supposed to frighten me? The first "bring it on" version before edit is better replaced by this. As a subject way outside of this part of the forums, each of our personal profiles are very exposed. Very. 73 Steve K9ZW |
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Nope, just showing how easy it is to find out where you live- near a nice county club, so if someone was looking to target you it would not be hard. Of course it's easy, haven't you been paying attention? I have an amateur license; I'm in the FCC ULS. Everyone with an amateur license is. Even you are in there, Mickey. So you've proven you're smart enough to find my call (probably here on ARFCOM), look me up in the ULS and then google my address. You get a cookie. I'm still not worried about it. |
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No, you haven't fixed it. I don't worry one bit about OPSEC on the air. Keep your SHTF fantasy bullsh*t to yourself. And yet you give crap to those of us who do worry about it. To me its like giving someone a hard time about locking there doors to their house/ car when you don't. The "SHTF fantasy bullsh*t" to alot of us is like saying you don't need insurance for you house just because it has never caught fire. Just because it has not happen does not mean it won't happen. Just because someone has not robbed you house when they heard you say over the radio that you were going to be gone for the weekend does not mean it can't happen. Its not being paranoid, its just being smart. Like stopping mail/ paper delivery when you go on vacation. Some folks just ask for the crooks to rob them. Then they bitch that the cops are not doing enough. Dang folks, if you won't help yourself, how can anyone help you. |
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Mickey,
You might recall this thread began as someone concerned about their personal saftey, or that of their loved ones being jeopardized by what they broadcast on the air. Several folks, including myself, indicated they had not reached that level of paranoia and likely weren't about to anytime soon. Then, KB7DX, responded to my expression of the above: If SHTF, you might think about a few "code words" for OPSEC.
To which I expressed my disdain for the SHTF mentality, and indirectly, the fantasy world I think most adherents to this mindset live in. As far as helping myself? I lock my house; I lock my cars. I insure them all. I carry a gun. I'm good with that. Anything else I do is my business. You are free to do what you like. I don't care. I'd just like to see at least a couple of ham threads not devolve into nonsense about the end of civlization. |
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I guess you need to find a ham fourm [sic] that is not part of a SURVIVAL fourm [sic]  PLUS FREAKING ONE. This exchange has been full of
There are other gun boards with ham radio subforums that aren't spinoffs of preparedness forums. Arfcom's ham forum however was a direct child of the Survival Forum and is mostly populated by folks who have a least a little inclination to such a mindset (even if many of our threads are hobby-related). QRZ and eHam have very active forums too. 
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Quoted: Oh great, now you've made me paranoid ... well okay, MORE paranoid Although I don't think your average thief is likely listening to hams and looking up callsigns as mentioned above. They also don't know if you live alone, or if your man-eating guard dog is at the house waiting for him. In my case, it's the latter http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs456.ash1/25072_330340991499_718646499_4253485_1519313_n.jpg Aw, c'mon Slanky! That adorable pup wouldn't hurt a fly! ;) |
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Quoted: Quoted: Oh great, now you've made me paranoid ... well okay, MORE paranoid Although I don't think your average thief is likely listening to hams and looking up callsigns as mentioned above. They also don't know if you live alone, or if your man-eating guard dog is at the house waiting for him. In my case, it's the latter http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs456.ash1/25072_330340991499_718646499_4253485_1519313_n.jpg Aw, c'mon Slanky! That adorable pup wouldn't hurt a fly! ;) haha yeah... I have scars on my upper arm, my left hand and my leg that say differently Unfortunately I involved myself in fights between him and my other dogs - thus I was collateral damage  Thankfully, I have no kids to worry about with him. He's quite the grumpy guy to say the least. And at 130+ lbs of solid muscle (Johnson type American Bulldog), he's not fun to tangle with. |