Originally Posted By KC-10Boom: What about adding the standard PSK freqs?  It's a great low power, high reliability mode.

that's a good idea.  

i have a few other ideas that i need to look into, i'll try to roll them all into one update.

anyone got anything else?

ar-jedi

Looking back to last page I'll chime in again at to a ctcss tone.  I would vote yes for everyone to try to put them in on encode, I would also recommend running without decode for maximum compatibility if possible.  I think I suggested the 100.0 tone as being easy to remember, someone else had suggested 100.9.  In any event IMO we should standardize on a tone freq and recommend it for encode.  It's especially important for folks who have LMR radios which can't be field programmed.

I find that I'm picking up noise on 145.560 often enough to be annoying in most urban/suburban areas, it's probably CATV bleed out (145.250 is a video carrier IIRC).  So for me to leave it in my normal scan list I'm going to have to go with a tone in daily use.

I was listening and tried calling on 145.560 at Knob Creek and didn't get anyone, tried it just on the off chance someone would have it on.

I think it would also be good to standardize on a MURS freq/tone as an additional point of contact, and probably GMRS/FRS as well.  MURS might be more inviting for greetings/meet ups at shows or the like as you can just use whatever you want (screen name) for an identifier.

I think a standard tone would also be a benefit and could easily get behind 100.0 I personally run 123.0 on simplex between some friends and that way we can use tone squelch.  I guess the purpose of this is just to throw a second for the idea and let's get it on the floor for discussion.

On the reference card, what's the second frequency for?

Secondary frequency.

Must be an Amateur Extra...

Funny, a question like that asked at my club would be answered by any number of folks wanting to help.

DRAFT of the next version is up:

PDF: http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/ham/reference/EMCOMM-FREQ-REF-CARD-v115draft.pdf

XLS: http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/ham/reference/EMCOMM-FREQ-REF-CARD-v115draft.xls

comments/suggestions/etc appreciated!

one thing i was thinking on was a standard offset for ARFCOM PSK nets.  556Hz?  
this would make it easier to find each other on PSK.

ar-jedi

Just a thought: you might want to label the columns on that sheet.

At first glance, someone might think the two freq's were repeater inputs and outputs and then wonder, "what the hell?" This was my first reaction.

Remember, you're providing this information for the lowest common denominator (not just the elitist smart-ass).

hmmmm.
tough to do –– not all the rows have strictly "primary/secondary" data.

e.g.
the first is the 10m USB calling frequency, the second is the 10m FM calling frequency.

similar issue for
SOS and similar safety traffic is initiated on ch16, and the USCG can and often does then push the traffic to ch22A (the USCG "working" channel) to keep ch16 clear.  i guess this is obvious to me since i live on the water (Atlantic Ocean) but may not be obvious to folks in Kansas.  so there are going to be some unknowns wherever you are.  at least the SHTF frequency card gives you a starting point.
   
etc

i think one premise of the SHTF frequency card is that the infrastructure is gone –– no repeaters, it's all simplex.  moreover, there are no "national" or even "regional" scope repeaters that i could document in a handy way.  this local info needs to be populated in the empty spaces at the lower right, along with any other EMCOMM frequencies in use.  "national" and "regional" scope communications happen via HF nets, which are documented on the card.  

ar-jedi

Looks great.
While I don't/can't do PSK now, having a standard offset sounds like a good idea.

And the pointy stick pointed at Dave,   it is not geared at the lowest common denominator.
The lowest common denominator isn't going to know how to operate a radio, let alone understand emission types and bands/frequencies. The existing format is pretty self explanatory.

Should probably update that before you link to the new version.

I have instructions for my 2m/70cm handheld and fixed-mount marine vhf with the radios so they can be used (by my wife, primarily) in case of an emergency by someone unfamiliar with the radio.

Forget it, I'm done wasting my time...

ar-jedi, here are the programmable band limits I put in my FT-60's:

L1  HAM140  144
U1  HAM140  148
L2  HAM420  420
U2  HAM420  450
L3  AIR  108
U3  AIR  137
L4  MARINE  156.05
U4  MARINE  157.425
L5  GMRS1  462.55
U5  GMRS1  462.725
L6  GMRS2  467.55
U6  GMRS2  467.725
L7  PUB1  153.74
U7  PUB1  159.21
L8  PUB2  453.025
U8  PUB2  465.65
L9  PUB3  849.1
U9  PUB3  868.9875
L10  FED  406
U10  FED  420
L11  RAIL  160.11
U11  RAIL  161.565
L12  SAT  136
U12  SAT  138
L13  DOD  250
U13  DOD  400

Pub1 through pub3 will nail most police, fire, and medical transmissions.  They are VERY handy to have around if you're in an unfamiliar area and can't reach any repeaters or hams.  Scan those in FM, then try transmitting back on any that you pick up.  Tone scan as well, I suppose.

Smart search comes in handy on those.  Go to a new area, smart search on one of those public service bands, walk away.  Come back in five minutes, and odds are that you'll have most of the local frequencies in use in it.  They won't be identified, but it beats the hell out of not having them at all.

It would probably be very useful to have those on any emergency frequencies cheat sheat.

I

I put a couple of banks of freqs in my UHF handhelds so I can tell my son to go to bank 6 channel 4 and the eavesdroppers will be fooled for a while!

YaHahahahaha.

RS

Go 222 if you want to throw ppl off , its amazing how fast a good scanner can cover the ham VHF /UHF bands.

I need to dust off some 222 stuff. I have a Kenwood 331, Icom 38A, Icom IC3AT, and an Icom IC03AT. All of it dates back to the Novice 220 priviliges circa 1988 and is kind of ancient but it does work.

RS

Okay, here comes the hopefully not a million dollar question.

What is a good set up for the beginner? NOT the best or both as in typical ARF fashion.

As far as obstructions, I am fortunate that I live by NJ standards at a higher elevation with mainly some trees to my north and then a mountain that is 600' taller then my home base to the north that is about three miles away. Other then my northern obstacles, I am clear in all the other directions. FWIW, I am line of sight to NYC which is 28 miles SE of me.

Thanks in advance....should I post this in another forum or would it be better for people to IM so we don't stray from the thread?

You probably want to start a new thread in this forum about that, Wojo.

I'm a fan of the FT-60R for portables, which is a simple dual band handheld with a powerful smart search feature, large channel storage, robust and straightforward design, and inexpensive and commonly available 6xAA battery packs to permit high power operation on alkalines.

For a newbie, I'd suggest a mobile or base station first, as it's much more capable and immediately satisfying.  You'll need to do a little research, though, to find a rig you like, and figure out how to set up an antenna for it and perform the other aspects of the installation and operation.

Portables are attractive to newbies because they're self-contained units, but they're also much lower powered than mobile or base radios, leading to a dissatisfying inability to make contacts or to utilize the radio from inside a vehicle.

That's JB. I read and re-read some of the other posts and there is just an over load of data. You start reading it and mentally you are in the tens of thousands of dollars. I start a new thread and try to put some guidelines on it that might appeal to the many like myself that might only want to transmit for a 100 to 200 miles but at the very least pick-up and monitor many of the freq's that are listed in the Emergency List.

100-200 miles is a problem area in ham radio.

VHF/UHF is line of sight, and antennas are usually small.  You would never, ever, make 100 miles with a handheld VHF/UHF radio, unless you used a repeater, which is sort of cheating, and even repeaters with excellent antennae and power supplies will have a devil of a time reaching three digits in range.

HF is much more capable for long range communication, but it involves bouncing signals off of the earth's ionosphere, which is kind of like skipping rocks on a pond.

If you throw the rock at too steep of an angle (i.e., drop the rock straight down into the pond, or send your HF signal straight up into the ionosphere) it will pass through the pond's surface and simply sink, just like the HF signal will go through the ionosphere and fail to bounce off of it and return to earth.

The problem this creates is that there's a "skip zone".  No matter what you do, there are some heights and distances that you simply can't get the rock to without throwing it directly at the spot (requiring line of sight).  For instance, a spot two feet in front of you, a foot above the water.  You can't bounce the rock to that spot no matter how much you try, because the rock will consistently pass through the surface of the water each time, due to the angle being too steep.

However, lower frequency signals are sort of "weaker" in a sense.  They'll be unable to penetrate the ionosphere, and thus are more likely to bounce back at weak angles.  Think of an air filled balloon instead of a rock.

This results in a phenomenon known as NVIS, Near Vertical Incidence Skywave.  Which, as the name implies, simply means a method of sending an HF signal almost straight up and still having it bounce back from the ionosphere.

It requires a particular antenna configuration on both ends, and use of very low frequencies that aren't typically used by HF operators.  So, it's really only useful if both sides of the conversation have prepared specifically for it.

Otherwise, your options are, basically, short range communication with VHF/UHF equipment, or long range communication with HF equipment (quite a bit of which is designed to function as VHF/UHF equipment, as well, but still requires relatively extravagent antenna setups and power supplies).

There's also a simple reality that many ham radios are designed with very tight specs.  They're not intended to be used as wideband receivers which can tune in, much less operate on in dire emergencies, public service frequencies or other important frequencies.

For instance, some VHF radios designed for the 2 meter band (144 mhz through 148 mhz) are unable to receive any signal outside that band.  So, even though the NOAA weather and EAS broadcasts are only 20 mhz away, around 162, you'll be unable to hear them with those radios.

Many radios have much wider reception capability, although some have to be modded slightly in order to access that.

You can get a feel for a radio by looking at the specifications of it.  What are the RX (receive) frequency ranges?  If you google mods for that radio, can you find any relatively simple ones that expand that RX range?  For use in dire emergencies, are you able to mod the radio to have an expanded TX (transmit) range?  Etc.

I wouldn't say that 100-200 miles is unrealistic a goal, but it's very difficult to achieve.  Ham radio is a strange thing in that it's often easier to communicate with a different continent than it is with a different county.

I had read about the NVIS and didn't realize it was so spotty. The antennae set-up for the NVIS seemed so easy in the photos I saw in one of the tagged links.

Question for the masses, is there a map showing where HAM operators are located? I'm sure there are certain parts of the country which have higher density of users versus states which have minimal coverage. I have a feeling that the more remote / less densely populated areas have more HAMS then uber-populated areas. Like when I was stationed in AK there was a decent amount of HAMS around versus say the NYC area which I like I said I am somewhat nearby...but still far enough to be safe from any immediate civil unrest. A big dirty bomb and an unusual wind and then all bets are off.

We're everywhere.  There's no place in the US where you wouldn't be able to make HF contacts from the US.

Wojo,
i work not too far from you (New Providence/Murray Hill, just off of Rt78), and if you want to
meet up one day for a show-n-tell of various amateur radio gear that would be no problem.

ar-jedi

Nice...thanks for the offer. Got the IM, I'll contact you regarding setting up a time off-board.

In June 2007, I hiked to the top of Telescope Peak in Death Valley, which was 11000 ft. I brought my Icom W32 with a Diamond RH77CA antenna and 5 watts on UHF. I was able to hit a repeater at 8000' on Frazier Mountain in Frazier Park, CA. It was about 138 miles away, as the crow flies. It was a linked repeater system, that I was able to converse with my father in the Bay Area.

So it is possible, though elevation is the ultimate antenna with VHF/UHF.

The Freq card is a good format. If you use Excel or Open Office, you can change the background to different colors for differentiating between bands.

Links aren't working

still having issues?

ar-jedi

i've incorporated some comments from above. anything else?

DRAFT of the next version is up:

PDF: http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/ham/reference/EMCOMM-FREQ-REF-CARD-v119draft.pdf

XLS: http://losdos.dyndns.org:8080/public/ham/reference/EMCOMM-FREQ-REF-CARD-v119draft.xls

comments/suggestions/etc appreciated!

ar-jedi

Hi , the links did not work for me?
RLTW

the links in the post directly above yours?  anyone else having an issue?

ar-jedi

Looks good, but I'm a little confused by this part:

Looks good.  Only thing is, did CHU move off of 7.335 Mhz yet?  I remember reading somewhere that they were going to move since the there was a change to the Ham & SW allocation, and they were concern with interferance.


Yep.. they did change to 7.850 Mhz.  Here's the link CHU


It looks good, I'll be printing one off for my use.

Colorado_Penguin

I take it your not a Ham???? 3.920 Mhz Lower Side Band. Which is part of the Single Side Band modulation used on the HF bands.

While I'm still a HF noob, I do get that part.
Its just the description that I don't understand. Is 3.920 LSB an Air Locator channel as the descreption says, or just another Ham HF frequency?

I'd read it as 121.500 in AM mode for Emergencies / 3.920 in LSB mode for Locator.





 

Everything looks good and I hate to even want to put this out there but with the European AM stations moving out of the spectrum from 7.100 to 7.200,on March 29,2009,

would'nt a freq. of something between 7.175 and 7.200 be better than 7.213?  

The 7.175 to 7.200 will be open to the General class with out the foreign AM broadcasters to add to the QRM.

  Right in the middle is 7.185?

Just a thought

as usual, looks good, thanks for the updates
Mike

So - is anybody doing the 40M daily net?  I have listened a few times and heard nothing.

I'm in Western Oregon.

I suggest adding some digital mode frequencies for each band and specifying Olivia 16/500 as the calling mode.

just getting back engaged with this project...



regarding digital modes, in the latest document rev there are PSK31 frequencies.  i'm not an Olivia user, but i do caution that most all digital modes for SHTF/EMCOMM use generally require ancillary equipment (e.g., a PC w/soundcard and/or external Rigblaster/Signalink) –– and that means additional operational complexity and additional power requirements.

i believe the mindset behind the SHTF/EMCOMM frequency sheet is "KISS", versus a definitive list of every possible mode of communications.

thoughts?

ar-jedi

YLISSB Net has moved to 7.201mhz at 23:00 UTC Mon. thru Fri.

Everything you said is true to a certain extent. However many digital modes are substantially more robust than SSB voice. This is especially important for QRP operations with small portable antennas. Running your uber-portable FT817 at 5W on a Buddipole or long piece of wire can be an exercise in frustration unless you are operating CW or digital. I suspect that digital modes are also beyond the capability of most average military SIGINT or COMINT activities as they are setup for military EW, not civilian. You can make Olivia contacts in conditions that are hopelessly beyond the capability of SSB voice. It's too bad the WSPR and JT65 are so obscure. If you only need to transfer short messages like "ETA 1700" "POSITION XYZ" etc. they can do that with ridiculously low power levels reliably and they have an additional advantage of being rather covert. At any rate it would seem to be a simple matter to identify certain frequencies and add them to the list as another tool in the toolbox. I suggest the following dial frequencies, all USB of course: 3583, 7070, 10140, 14070, 18070.

I think we all have "52" plugged into every 2 meter radio we have,,,, don't we???

www.primetimeshortwave.com



English shortwave broadcasts by time/freq/targeted area.  Great resource for SWLing.

Actually, ar-jedi... one more thing.

At our club meeting a few nights ago, we received a good lesson in traffic handling/message taking.

The purpose of an emergency net is to handle emergency traffic.  There used to be a booklet, a net directory, no longer in print.  Melinda at ARRL told me these two links supercede/replace that Net Directory.  These links are the same document, one in MS Word, one in Adobe PDF format.

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/nts-mpg/docs/index.html    MS Word version

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/nts-mpg/pdf/index.html      PDF version


And there is a specific message form, a pad of yellow pages.  This can be ordered here:

http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=&words=message+pad   Message Pads from ARRL


The incoming messages just happened to be for our two new members, welcoming them to the world of ham radio.  They just happened to be standing there in the club station as our club president copied, including ARL messages.  (Don't know what this is?  Read up!  I gave you the links.)  So, a good lesson in traffic handling.

OTOH, some of the digital modes require considerably less transmitter power than their "analog" counterparts - which may offset the extra power requirements of a laptop and radio interface. Also, the stealthiness of negative SNR modes could be an advantage in some circumstances.

I have been monitoring 7.213mhz for many months and there is rarely a time when the frequency is not obliterated with splatter from foreign stations on 7.210 or 7.205 or 7.200 when the band is in any useable condition.

I would highly suggest that the frequency be changed to something lower or higher, out of the bandwidth of some of the spashbox foreign broadcast stations.

I think the interference on 7.213 has contributed greatly to the reduction of people even tuning in.......its just noise and annoying is an understatement.

Anyone who has experienced this same problem please chime in here and lets get some concensus on a quiet frequency that can be monitored without the constant  noise storm of over modulated foreign transmitters.