User Panel
Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a recirculating pump to keep the water moving like they use in stock tanks on farms.
https://www.watermoover.com |
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If you have enough battery power or use a generator a floating stock tank heater might work better.
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Your piping is already in place, but pumping hot water back into the bottom of the tank would be much more efficient. Pumping into the top won’t heat the water at the bottom and you’ll spend much more energy keeping the lowest water temp in the tank above freezing.
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Awesome, I'm loving it.
One of my concerns would be securing your battery and electrical area somehow, 4/0 wire has a loooot of copper and would be an easier/quicker target for thieves than the rest of your metal. There's well over $1k in copper alone in your wiring. Redoing all of that wiring after a methhead gets in there with some wirecutters would be a nightmare. |
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Glad I found this Thread!
I"m building a 12x32 (almost exact shed/cabin) on my property link to my thread ours will be plugged into my barn that is wired to the house that is full solar/battery. What kind of insulation did you use? Venting? I want to do the same wood inside as you over the insulation. ours has the urethane coated siding. we were thinking a mini split to heat and cool. We just had -15F this week and it gets hot and humid in the summer. thanks so much for this thread! |
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have gun will travel
Well you seen much combat? ......... I've seen a little on TV. We are jolly green giants, walking the Earth with guns. Lifetime NRA member SADLY now GOA and ASA member!!!!! |
Well this freeze was a lot worse than the normal winter I described on pg 1. Thus far my tank has a roughly 3” thick layer of ice on the top but nothing appears to be broken. I had the heat tape and batteries off during the 3-4 days of -2 to 30* weather. The valve was stuck at the bottom today but within 20 min of turning the heat tape on it was unstuck. No water flowing yet so the valve definitely froze.
My new plan is to use a diesel hydronic heater. I want to take water from the tank and run it through a small radiator in the battery box and back into the tank. I think that will keep my batteries and tank above freezing but will prob cost me another $1500. |
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I used regular pink fiberglass insulation. Honestly it’s plenty and I think a little wood heat is still going to be warmer than I want. I’ll prob have to keep doors and windows open and get eaten by a bear in my sleep.
I’m trying not to make it too air tight. I don’t want mold or rot. |
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Subbed.
I'm much, much earlier in the process, but doing something really similar down here in TX. We're forgoing an on site well due to cost (would be $25k) and going with a catchment system instead, so the thread is very relevant to my interests. It looks fantastic so far. |
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are you going to add some kind of shielding on the wall behind the stove?
edit: nevermind reading is fundamental |
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What a cool Thread! way to go OP! Looks fantastic!
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Only God will judge me.
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It looks great.
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Here is a good heater.
https://planarheaters.com/ They have a good rep on boats. Have you though about using the wood stove to heat water to keep your water tank warm? Outdoor water tanks here in AK are spray foamed. Some run a heater in the water or blow warm air into the tank. These water heaters are doing pretty good here in AK. Run off of heating oil and 120v https://toyotomiusa.com/product/om-128hh-toyotomi-on-demand-hydronic-heater/ |
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Don't like what I see happening in the world.
PA, USA
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Originally Posted By taliv: Well this freeze was a lot worse than the normal winter I described on pg 1. Thus far my tank has a roughly 3” thick layer of ice on the top but nothing appears to be broken. I had the heat tape and batteries off during the 3-4 days of -2 to 30* weather. The valve was stuck at the bottom today but within 20 min of turning the heat tape on it was unstuck. No water flowing yet so the valve definitely froze. My new plan is to use a diesel hydronic heater. I want to take water from the tank and run it through a small radiator in the battery box and back into the tank. I think that will keep my batteries and tank above freezing but will prob cost me another $1500. View Quote I would think the pump from a stock tank or a bubbler(like a fish tank bubbler) would be an option for keeping the water moving.(?) Resistance heat saps electric, anything that burns fuel, well, requires fuel. A bubbler is lower voltage. Or maybe a paddle type agitator? Than it might be able to be wind or solar powered. I would have concerns heating the water. If you get just a bit of some bacteria or natural organism alive in the tank, would heating the water encourage growth? Just thinking outloud with you. Keep up the work of living your dream, man. You're doing well! |
Something clever belongs here.
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Originally Posted By akcaribouhunter: Here is a good heater. https://planarheaters.com/ They have a good rep on boats. Have you though about using the wood stove to heat water to keep your water tank warm? Outdoor water tanks here in AK are spray foamed. Some run a heater in the water or blow warm air into the tank. These water heaters are doing pretty good here in AK. Run off of heating oil and 120v https://toyotomiusa.com/product/om-128hh-toyotomi-on-demand-hydronic-heater/ View Quote I actually have the planar diesel air heater. I want to add the hydronic to it to keep the tank and batteries warm. Glad it has a good reputation. I couldn’t find anyone I know with one |
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Originally Posted By taliv: https://i.ibb.co/mvnZWWQ/A25-FAA50-4-B7-A-4291-8-CE5-D743564-ECC3-D.jpg Working on wall shield. It’s almost done. Got it water jet cut out with holes for flue and air intake and 14 stand off screws. Just have to cut the hole for air intake and can fasten it to wall. For the moment I’m running shields attached to stove on either side. Plan is to build a kitchen counter on the left side which is why the granite is straight there and live on the front and right. Once that’s there I’ll put a wall shield on left and remove the stove shield on left. All the shields are copper. In case anyone was wondering, dealing with thin copper rolls is officially a PITA View Quote Insulate behind the Cooper. Ask me how I know. Another slab of granite maybe as a heat sink? |
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I dont think this is a brains type of operation.
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Originally Posted By ENGCPT: Insulate behind the Cooper. Ask me how I know. Another slab of granite maybe as a heat sink? View Quote how do you know? I followed the NFPA-211 standards for heat shields and mfg instructions for minimum clearances. Curiously the minimum distance from combustibles is the same for air cooled heat shield and insulated heat shield but farther for masonry heat shields. This is a quote from mfg website "Insulated heat shields are rarely used for small space installations because they require additional material, and are less effective. Insulated shields are identical in appearance and construction to air-cooled shields, but instead of 1" of air space behind the shield, you use 1" of fireproof insulation like rockwool or ceramic fiber. " thus far, i've heated the stove up to 500* and been shocked at how well the heat shields work. With the stove in the 400-500* range (according to the thermometer sitting on top) I can literally hold my hands on the side heat shields. theyre warm, but not hot. after running the stove for hours, the wall heat shield is cold to the touch. I'm actually concerned i've undersized the stove and it's not going to have the heat output i need. I may have to cut the side shields in half to radiate more heat. |
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Originally Posted By taliv: https://i.ibb.co/th80gmz/98-DEC032-80-E6-4812-B5-AF-65-DA412745-E5.jpg Tn blacksmith made some gun hangers out of railroad spikes. Suppressed 22 is a little narrow for them but works ok View Quote Very nice |
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I dont think this is a brains type of operation.
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OP, if you really want to have your water system be low input then you need to get it underground. It will keep the sunlight off of it (mold growth and UV degrading of the poly tank concerns), keep it cool in the summer (mold & bacterial growth concerns), warm in the winter (freezing concerns), and all of this with no power input (saves you some of your solar capacity). You can even put the pressure tank underground so you don't have to use heat tape and the insulation blanket over it.
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You’re right that would be ideal. But the cabin location is literally on top of a mountain and it’s pretty solid rock. Also why I opted for incinerator toilet instead of septic.
I’m going to have to rent some pretty expensive equipment this year just to drill a small hole for a permanent pole for solar panels and ham antenna. |
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Originally Posted By taliv: You’re right that would be ideal. But the cabin location is literally on top of a mountain and it’s pretty solid rock. Also why I opted for incinerator toilet instead of septic. I’m going to have to rent some pretty expensive equipment this year just to drill a small hole for a permanent pole for solar panels and ham antenna. View Quote When you rent the equipment keep in mind that if you rent the right equipment (mini excavator etc) it would be a good time to bury the tank too. Note: the tank you have doesn't look like a normal bury rated tank. You could bury a new tank and then there is no rush getting that one hooked up. You can keep living from the tank you have while you get all the work done. I've BTDT on projects like this. When I rent equipment I try to get a list of projects compiled and I do a Saturday rental (pickup Saturday morning and return Monday morning). When the equipment is here I focus solely on putting as many hours as i can on utilizing it while I have it. Then after i take it back is when i start the rest. ETA, "buried" doesn't always mean under grade. I'm on rock too. My bedrock varies from 9 feet down (the deepest I've ever found it on my property) to on the surface. Usually the rock near the surface is unconsolidated and easier to break out, especially with equipment. If it's too much there are ways to make big rocks smaller, the sky is the limit. I started with feathers & wedges, and I've graduated up to better methods (IM me if you want more info). That being said, if I'm burying something like a tank I dig as far as I can and set the tank, then mound dirt over it. A short tank like yours, if you get it 2/3 into the ground all the displaced soil can be used to cover it. Yes, it will still be where it can be exposed to freezing temps but the soil slows the rate that the heat is pulled from the tank and there is enough of the tank buried deeper in the ground that it will pull heat out of the surrounding ground and keep it from freezing. I currently have 3 buried cisterns on my property. 2 for rainwater, one for well water. |
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Originally Posted By taliv: https://i.ibb.co/mvnZWWQ/A25-FAA50-4-B7-A-4291-8-CE5-D743564-ECC3-D.jpg Working on wall shield. It’s almost done. Got it water jet cut out with holes for flue and air intake and 14 stand off screws. Just have to cut the hole for air intake and can fasten it to wall. For the moment I’m running shields attached to stove on either side. Plan is to build a kitchen counter on the left side which is why the granite is straight there and live on the front and right. Once that’s there I’ll put a wall shield on left and remove the stove shield on left. All the shields are copper. In case anyone was wondering, dealing with thin copper rolls is officially a PITA View Quote how does the stove draft mounted like that? Literally everyone in my area says not go go through wall but the roof. But all I see on tiny home builds are through the wall. I would rather go through wall than cut my metal roof. thanks much (do you still need a support box like for roofs?) also what model stove did you get? |
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have gun will travel
Well you seen much combat? ......... I've seen a little on TV. We are jolly green giants, walking the Earth with guns. Lifetime NRA member SADLY now GOA and ASA member!!!!! |
The stove mfg recommends through ceiling. But It drafts great. It might draft a little better going straight up but every builder I talked to said it would eventually leak.
I’ve found the trick to getting a draft going on a cold morning is to burn about 1.5 sq ft of cardboard (amzn boxes) placed very high in this stove. That only takes a minute and generates quick heat and starts a draft and then anything else I do in the box goes right out properly. If I try to build an old boyscout style fire and start with paper or tinder at the bottom of the firebox all the smoke goes out the door into the cabin. And if I close the door the fire goes out Once I start the draft with the high cardboard I can leave the door open all day and no smoke will get in the room. You can see the flames getting bent toward the back from the draft. The cold air intake from outside helps a ton though too. |
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All looks fantastic OP!
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By taliv: The stove mfg recommends through ceiling. But It drafts great. It might draft a little better going straight up but every builder I talked to said it would eventually leak. I’ve found the trick to getting a draft going on a cold morning is to burn about 1.5 sq ft of cardboard (amzn boxes) placed very high in this stove. That only takes a minute and generates quick heat and starts a draft and then anything else I do in the box goes right out properly. If I try to build an old boyscout style fire and start with paper or tinder at the bottom of the firebox all the smoke goes out the door into the cabin. And if I close the door the fire goes out Once I start the draft with the high cardboard I can leave the door open all day and no smoke will get in the room. You can see the flames getting bent toward the back from the draft. The cold air intake from outside helps a ton though too. View Quote Thanks much! If you don’t mind what brand/ model stove? Looks just like what I’m looking for EDIT to add Dwarf stove? Looks like it |
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have gun will travel
Well you seen much combat? ......... I've seen a little on TV. We are jolly green giants, walking the Earth with guns. Lifetime NRA member SADLY now GOA and ASA member!!!!! |
yeah dwarf 4k. i wish i'd gotten the 5k. 4k doesn't put out as much heat as i'd like. i'd only use the 4k in some place like a motorhome or school bus / camper in the 150 sq ft range.
also if you go with one of these little ones, make sure you've got a good source of wood. if you're used to feeding a regular stove with 16" long logs, you might not appreciate just how small the firebox is on these things. it says it will take 9" logs but it's not practical. the fire bricks are 10" apart, but the door is only 8" wide and turning stuff at an angle to insert one end first and then rotating it doesn't work well when it's 700* and you've already got a log or two in there. I have some local guys who sell firewood. They have a machine that will cut it to any length you want and i've been getting 6-8" logs from them but future loads i'll say nothing longer than 7". and that wouldn't be fun to cut with a chainsaw |
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Originally Posted By taliv: I double and triple checked. No building codes at all in my county. If I connect to the electric grid, which I’m not going to do, then everything needs to be to code. There is a state permit required for septic and wells but I’m not doing either. View Quote I’m about to start a similar cabin build thread. Not sure if I want to start it here or in general to get more responses. I’m fully capable of the build but I’m also looking for tips and help. It’s going to be in the Tennessee mountains also. I found a deal on 6 acres and am going to do all the building myself. I’m probably going to hook into grid power though. My only option for water is dig a well or haul it in. I’m liking the gutters running into the water tank. That’s probably what I’ll look into until I get the funds built up for a well. I’m up a pretty good slope to get to the build site so getting water up will be a challenge. There’s a creek at the bottom of the mountain but I haven’t looked into the specifics of how much pump power it would take to get water pumped up by a long hose. I’m going to start watching your build to see if there’s any ideas I can use. Good luck! |
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"I'm about to start a similar cabin build thread. Not sure if I want to start it here or in general to get more responses."
We need a Cabin/Recreational land forum here. |
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Originally Posted By First-World-Problems: I’m about to start a similar cabin build thread. Not sure if I want to start it here or in general to get more responses. I’m fully capable of the build but I’m also looking for tips and help. It’s going to be in the Tennessee mountains also. I found a deal on 6 acres and am going to do all the building myself. I’m probably going to hook into grid power though. My only option for water is dig a well or haul it in. I’m liking the gutters running into the water tank. That’s probably what I’ll look into until I get the funds built up for a well. I’m up a pretty good slope to get to the build site so getting water up will be a challenge. There’s a creek at the bottom of the mountain but I haven’t looked into the specifics of how much pump power it would take to get water pumped up by a long hose. I’m going to start watching your build to see if there’s any ideas I can use. Good luck! View Quote Looking forward to seeing what you do! I sent a pm so if you’re close let me know. You’ll get a lot more comments in gd but they’ll be retarded and it will get archived before your build is done lol Being on top of a mountain I figured I’d need to pump 1000’ and I looked at both the prices of digging that kind of well (assuming we could get a truck up the trail) and the draw on mostly 240v pumps needed, and the state permit required for digging wells and figured rainwater collection is a far better solution. My cabin is sort of an expensive POC for a house I want to build. since my water tank is always full, when I eventually build a house I’ll put a larger tank by the house and the roof will be 5x as much area so I’ll really have way more water than I need. Even if I run electric to the house which will be much closer to the road, I think I’d still prefer rainwater over a well and pump now. |
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Originally Posted By First-World-Problems: I'm about to start a similar cabin build thread. Not sure if I want to start it here or in general to get more responses. I'm fully capable of the build but I'm also looking for tips and help. It's going to be in the Tennessee mountains also. I found a deal on 6 acres and am going to do all the building myself. I'm probably going to hook into grid power though. My only option for water is dig a well or haul it in. I'm liking the gutters running into the water tank. That's probably what I'll look into until I get the funds built up for a well. I'm up a pretty good slope to get to the build site so getting water up will be a challenge. There's a creek at the bottom of the mountain but I haven't looked into the specifics of how much pump power it would take to get water pumped up by a long hose. I'm going to start watching your build to see if there's any ideas I can use. Good luck! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By First-World-Problems: Originally Posted By taliv: I double and triple checked. No building codes at all in my county. If I connect to the electric grid, which I'm not going to do, then everything needs to be to code. There is a state permit required for septic and wells but I'm not doing either. I'm about to start a similar cabin build thread. Not sure if I want to start it here or in general to get more responses. I'm fully capable of the build but I'm also looking for tips and help. It's going to be in the Tennessee mountains also. I found a deal on 6 acres and am going to do all the building myself. I'm probably going to hook into grid power though. My only option for water is dig a well or haul it in. I'm liking the gutters running into the water tank. That's probably what I'll look into until I get the funds built up for a well. I'm up a pretty good slope to get to the build site so getting water up will be a challenge. There's a creek at the bottom of the mountain but I haven't looked into the specifics of how much pump power it would take to get water pumped up by a long hose. I'm going to start watching your build to see if there's any ideas I can use. Good luck! |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By taliv: This is what happens when you get a new electric brad nailer your off grid cabin gets a cell phone holder in the loo https://i.ibb.co/K5G216b/A31-E75-BE-A92-D-4161-A5-C1-377-AC0412614.jpg View Quote |
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“So, never give up. Continue to fight. You’ll either find a win here and there, or you’ll die fighting. I can accept either of those out comes”- March 31st, 2020 - Until Valhalla
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Originally Posted By taliv: https://i.ibb.co/6PNgh3r/04610-F86-0-C6-F-4-AD1-B91-A-89-BBD5-E847-BF.jpg Anybody put a utility sink outdoors? Got one of those fancy dog washing shower head things too that attaches to faucet and has a 10’ hose. Will be a lot better than trying to clean dog hair out of the shower View Quote I have not, but I like that[!]; Outdoor or utility room sinks are very convenient. (Is that plumbed for hot and cold) [I think it is..]? {Nice} If the hair is a big problem inside, it might also be outside as well. Is that station just for a dog(s) occasionally? You might trade the drain to you sewer system for a bucket so as to not complicate drainage issues later down the road. |
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Originally Posted By taliv:
https://i.ibb.co/6PNgh3r/04610-F86-0-C6-F-4-AD1-B91-A-89-BBD5-E847-BF.jpg Anybody put a utility sink outdoors? Got one of those fancy dog washing shower head things too that attaches to faucet and has a 10' hose. Will be a lot better than trying to clean dog hair out of the shower[/quote Lots of sinks outside at fish-camps but no running water. |
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Born with a low tolerance for bullshit
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By JoseCuervo: I have not, but I like that[!]; Outdoor or utility room sinks are very convenient. (Is that plumbed for hot and cold) [I think it is..]? {Nice} If the hair is a big problem inside, it might also be outside as well. Is that station just for a dog(s) occasionally? You might trade the drain to you sewer system for a bucket so as to not complicate drainage issues later down the road. View Quote Yes I would absolutely have a way to divert the water to a bucket if you will have the dog in the actual sink. If the dog will be on the ground/mat, then no worries. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe |
yes, hot and cold
2 GSD so they will be on the mat; won't fit in sink lol but only get washed once a month or so. really, it's mostly going to be for cleaning muddy gear and such. |
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Originally Posted By taliv: No issues in a month of normal usage. (I mean most people wouldn’t expect issues but this is the first plumbing I’ve ever done so I was kinda surprised when it all worked) But I gave it a good stress test today pressure washing excavator and side by side. Not detailing of course just a couple hours knocking a winters worth of mud and grease and such. No probs with supplying sufficient water or power. Normal garden hose connected to faucet in outdoor sink in post above https://i.ibb.co/hMcmdPp/IMG-2867.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/GQsGjGP/IMG-2866.jpg Also I’m finding I use a lot less water than I budgeted. 1100g is more than enough for me View Quote It’s always better to have more than not enough. Who knows you might use all of that in case of a fire. |
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Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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https://rumble.com/v2xpcdg-4-bears.html
sitting in the cabin a few minutes ago and a momma and 3 cubs walk past. they're cute when they're not tearing stuff up |
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Looking good! Spending a lot of time up there this summer?
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Originally Posted By taliv: And I even built a smaller version of it in my overlanding camper first and have been running it a few years. This is the electrical layout for my camper. I draw the diagram and attached it to camper door so I could refer to it as needed. https://i.ibb.co/6mRzm6j/5-C8-FC735-58-A2-4-B56-A21-D-DD2-BE547-C70-D.jpg The differences are 10 SOK batteries instead of 3 green ones 1000a bus bar instead of 600a 2 victron 150/100 mppt instead 100/30 solar, an AC to DC charger and a DC to DC charger 1000a smart shunt instead of 500a 4000w inverter that does 240 split phase instead of a 2000w inverter And 6x 450w renogy panels instead of 3x 160w Otherwise I tried to keep everything the same, partly cause I know it works and partly because of parts commonality Here’s a pic of my 11’ camper and a gratuitous sunrise pic from this weekend. https://i.ibb.co/rmMgxrH/87-CE780-A-85-BD-4-A07-8996-7-BF34-DD40-CFD.jpg https://i.ibb.co/rZmWDBY/A6-E0-F502-C1-CC-48-BD-95-E1-104946890813.jpg View Quote The East Tennessee view is amazing fellow Vol! It looks like heaven to me. |
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