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Tis the season for people to be asking about generators for winter. Thought I would bump this one. 
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Bumping to top. Tis the season. Saw a generator threat pop up and realized I should bump this. Good info here. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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So there's a question in THIS THREAD about running generators in tandem. Then there were some members who had concern about about doing this What say you, Generator Oracle? This seems like a really good point to add to this thread. @cucamelsmd15 ETA: YOu may have covered it. With a quick read I didn't see it, but listen...you are speaking NOT my language, so maybe I missed it. Yeah...I tacked this thread not only because it's an awesome thread, but cuz I freaking need to LEARN.  )
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: So there's a question in THIS THREAD about running generators in tandem. Then there were some members who had concern about about doing this What say you, Generator Oracle? This seems like a really good point to add to this thread. @cucamelsmd15 ETA: YOu may have covered it. With a quick read I didn't see it, but listen...you are speaking NOT my language, so maybe I missed it. Yeah...I tacked this thread not only because it's an awesome thread, but cuz I freaking need to LEARN. )So, this is a fair point, and admittedly not one I addressed. One of the "perks" of the inverter gensets is that because they are AC>DC>AC they can sync the sine wave of their output. Honda makes a parallel kit for their 2000w generators, and most other manufacturers do as well. You can even parallel the Predator 3500 watt I have with another if you need more juice. Paralleling two of the 2000w is an interesting topic of discussion. Fuel consumption on a single unit is less, but you have the option for more wattage if needed. Plus, two is one, one is none... I will grant that my Predator is a bitch to move by myself at 110+ pounds and bulk. In general, with the inverters, theres no concern with a parallel setup other than youve got more to maintain. Someone did/does make a triple parallel kit for the small inverters because Ive seen a few race teams using it. They run all three to run the trailer if needed, or they can separate them out to have two run the trailer and one in the pits to run the pitbox etc. That reminds me, need to get mine out and gassed up. We are supposed to get an ice storm on Wednesday. 
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@cucamelsmd15 I live about 1900' off the road so a natural gas generator isn't an option. We currently heat with heating oil and use electric appliances. What are your thoughts on getting a whole home generator that runs off propane? What brands to you recommend? Generac seems to be the default generator in my area. |
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Originally Posted By carlschmarl2: @cucamelsmd15 I live about 1900' off the road so a natural gas generator isn't an option. We currently heat with heating oil and use electric appliances. What are your thoughts on getting a whole home generator that runs off propane? What brands to you recommend? Generac seems to be the default generator in my area. |
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Originally Posted By carlschmarl2: @cucamelsmd15 I live about 1900' off the road so a natural gas generator isn't an option. We currently heat with heating oil and use electric appliances. What are your thoughts on getting a whole home generator that runs off propane? What brands to you recommend? Generac seems to be the default generator in my area. I'm not as familiar with heating oil setups for heat unfortunately, so not much help there. |
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15: In terms of whole home, it's how much you want to spend. General and Kohler are the two big players for propane. I will echo what was previously said. If that is the path you take, the bigger the tank, the better. I had figured up my current tank which is 300 something gallons would be empty in 125 hours realistically if run 24/7 during an outage. Obviously you can manage that, but a friend who has that same size generator and propane appliances is on two 1k buried tanks. Take that for what it's worth. I'm not as familiar with heating oil setups for heat unfortunately, so not much help there. Short of getting one buried, I'd set a 500 gallon tank in the back yard if the generator I chose was propane. Propane here is STUPID expensive, but an above-ground tank you rent for $60 a year can be changed out easily if you decide to change providers. I just can't see burying a tank for emergency purposes. 1-It's metal and rusts 2-those connections get loose and leak above ground. I don't have ANY question that they might do the same under ground, which requires digging. Maybe there are arguments otherwise, but It takes a number of years of renting to add up to owning and/or burying a tank. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Short of getting one buried, I'd set a 500 gallon tank in the back yard if the generator I chose was propane. Propane here is STUPID expensive, but an above-ground tank you rent for $60 a year can be changed out easily if you decide to change providers. I just can't see burying a tank for emergency purposes. 1-It's metal and rusts 2-those connections get loose and leak above ground. I don't have ANY question that they might do the same under ground, which requires digging. Maybe there are arguments otherwise, but It takes a number of years of renting to add up to owning and/or burying a tank. I wouldn't bury it. I think people mainly do it because of the eyesore. |
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Originally Posted By carlschmarl2: I wouldn't bury it. I think people mainly do it because of the eyesore. Yes. I hid mine behind my garage. Around here, the tank in the yard is part of the landscape.  And I'm a landscape designer, and yes I hate the tank. But I just can't see burying it. I can freaking HIDE that tank with landscaping that is MUCH cheaper to install (compared to cost of burying), and can be easily fixed if the tank has to be removed (they pull it out toward the sky, anyway, with the bid boom truck thingy). Burying has always seemed like a monumentally bad idea to me. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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I'm not sure about analysis. I have an all electric house with a solar array but no battery backup. From the limited reading I have done, it appears a generator is probably the best bet for a real backup. Any arfcom approved comparison of my options? No natural gas, no existing LP equipment. 481kWh per month or 87kWh per day average. I'm not sure what that translates to in whole house size generator... |
| We had a self owned 500 gallon above ground tank when we installed our 22kw whole house unit (it was for backup heat & gas logs). I wanted more reserve so we added another 500 gallon tank (new) & paralleled it with the original. We went through Southern States (coop) for the purchase ($1590) & delivery/install ($116 on my pre-prepped pads). |
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Originally Posted By nikdfish: We had a self owned 500 gallon above ground tank when we installed our 22kw whole house unit (it was for backup heat & gas logs). I wanted more reserve so we added another 500 gallon tank (new) & paralleled it with the original. We went through Southern States (coop) for the purchase ($1590) & delivery/install ($116 on my pre-prepped pads). I know it's all subjective to actual power draw and usage, but how long do you think 1000 gallons of propane will last? What generator did you go with? |
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We went through Costco, the 22KW unit was branded Honeywell but the install was done through Generac (which also makes Honeywell). Two 500 gallon tanks only represents 800 gallons total when filled. Because of increased surface area you should be able to draw the tanks down to a lower point, percentage wise, than a single tank and still have enough vaporization to run things properly - guesstimate of usable LP is maybe 700 gallons. How long that lasts depends on what conservation methods are used & the power required. Most of the time we average less than 2KW/hr, so for us the generator spends a lot of time under 10% load (the 22KW was sized to handle starting a 5 ton heat pump). From past experience that may well be in the gallon/hr ballpark or about 24 gallons/day if we aren't running high amperage items. If the tanks were freshly filled, that might be as much as 28 days (if not running the heat pump) running 23 hrs/day (you are supposed to power down once every 24 hours to check oil), with conservation - say 2 hrs on/4 hrs off - three times as long. In reality, as I generally fill when the tanks are somewhere around the 50% point, I might have as little as 500 gallons (or about 400 usable gallons) at the start of an event, so less time. If running the heat pump a lot, we might get into the 2 gallon/hr range. |
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The season is coming up for generator questions. Bumping this to top. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Two years ago, grandmother was living alone and had (propane) Generac whole house generator installed, transfer switch, etc. Worked great. She has since passed away. I have been offered the nearly-new generator. Is it worth it to have an electrician and plumber disconnect it from her house, move to mine, convert to natural gas, and install a transfer switch and all necessary piping and wiring? It seems the biggest savings is TIME; I get the machine without any long waits or six month back order. The generator is also “free” but I will have to spend several thousand on natural gas conversion, disconnection, moving, and reconnection. Is that worth it? Or should I just buy new? |
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Originally Posted By crazyquik: Two years ago, grandmother was living alone and had (propane) Generac whole house generator installed, transfer switch, etc. Worked great. She has since passed away. I have been offered the nearly-new generator. Is it worth it to have an electrician and plumber disconnect it from her house, move to mine, convert to natural gas, and install a transfer switch and all necessary piping and wiring? It seems the biggest savings is TIME; I get the machine without any long waits or six month back order. The generator is also “free” but I will have to spend several thousand on natural gas conversion, disconnection, moving, and reconnection. Is that worth it? Or should I just buy new? How much is the generator you WOULD buy, if you buy it new, and how much will the electrician cost you for the NEW installation, etc.? And do you know it will be a six-month wait? That right there might be the game changer if it was me. Plus, I'm going to guess that a Generac whole-house generator is a fairly pricey item? I don't know about generators, and read this thread to learn, but it seems that you ought to do the math and have the side-by-side numbers before you jump either way.
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By crazyquik: Two years ago, grandmother was living alone and had (propane) Generac whole house generator installed, transfer switch, etc. Worked great. She has since passed away. I have been offered the nearly-new generator. Is it worth it to have an electrician and plumber disconnect it from her house, move to mine, convert to natural gas, and install a transfer switch and all necessary piping and wiring? It seems the biggest savings is TIME; I get the machine without any long waits or six month back order. The generator is also "free" but I will have to spend several thousand on natural gas conversion, disconnection, moving, and reconnection. Is that worth it? Or should I just buy new? The generator wait around me isn't the problem. It's the electrician. After lumber prices skyrocketed, work on new construction stopped or slowed to a crawl. Lumber is mostly back to normal in my AO and construction is running at breakneck pace. A friend of mine who is a residential is booked solid through this time NEXT year. As in every man on a job site every day for 12 hours minimum. He got about 6 months of almost no work though. If you can find an electrician, and that's a big IF, it would be worth it IMO. |
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Originally Posted By crazyquik: Two years ago, grandmother was living alone and had (propane) Generac whole house generator installed, transfer switch, etc. Worked great. She has since passed away. I have been offered the nearly-new generator. Is it worth it to have an electrician and plumber disconnect it from her house, move to mine, convert to natural gas, and install a transfer switch and all necessary piping and wiring? It seems the biggest savings is TIME; I get the machine without any long waits or six month back order. The generator is also "free" but I will have to spend several thousand on natural gas conversion, disconnection, moving, and reconnection. Is that worth it? Or should I just buy new? IMO, absolutely it's worth it. Caveats of course: it's not hundreds of miles, removing it doesn't interfere with the sale etc. |
I'd rather be an American than a democrat.
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Originally Posted By crazyquik: Two years ago, grandmother was living alone and had (propane) Generac whole house generator installed, transfer switch, etc. Worked great. She has since passed away. I have been offered the nearly-new generator. Is it worth it to have an electrician and plumber disconnect it from her house, move to mine, convert to natural gas, and install a transfer switch and all necessary piping and wiring? It seems the biggest savings is TIME; I get the machine without any long waits or six month back order. The generator is also “free” but I will have to spend several thousand on natural gas conversion, disconnection, moving, and reconnection. Is that worth it? Or should I just buy new? Yes, it is worth it!! I had a 22kw Generac installed this spring with auto transfer for $7k, the 1000 gallon underground tank was another $3K. Switch over to NG is a lever inside the enclosure. Remember, in the event of a area wide natural disaster the NG pumping stations may be shut down. |
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It's generator season in North America. Winter is coming/here. This is a good thread. Some may not know it's here. So.....bumping. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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I have a few questions. Say, a Champion 3650 watt, needed just to run an average size fridge, occasional 1,100 watt microwave, maybe one 1500 watt space heater, a lamp or two. With 2 extension cords, each a 14 gauge, 13 amp., 100' in length. Is that going to be an issue? |
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What's the worst that could happen, would the cords potentially overheat, or would the generator be working too hard to get the juice through those cords? Or would the appliances not get all they need? If so, is there potential ofdamage, or just less efficient operation? |
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Just had a 30K Kohler put on the pad. Will be run off of Natural gas. 2 story, 4800 sqft house. Will be adding a pole barn down the road. Wife said she wants to be able to run both AC units, all lights, Fridge in the kitchen, Upright freezer and upright Refer, plus I am planning on getting a 48foot 2 door commercial freezer (I plan on having room for a whole beef cow, a couple pigs and deer meat.) Now just to get the Electrician to show up and wire it and the auto-disconnect/change over switch and we will be good to go. Yes @Kitties-with-Sigs, I will update my thread.... I've been super busy in life and lazy here.....
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Been called many things: Asshole, hey you, Boats and a few others. The one I cherish is when a Marine called me "Doc"
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Originally Posted By NCUrk: Just had a 30K Kohler put on the pad. Will be run off of Natural gas. 2 story, 4800 sqft house. Will be adding a pole barn down the road. Wife said she wants to be able to run both AC units, all lights, Fridge in the kitchen, Upright freezer and upright Refer, plus I am planning on getting a 48foot 2 door commercial freezer (I plan on having room for a whole beef cow, a couple pigs and deer meat.) Now just to get the Electrician to show up and wire it and the auto-disconnect/change over switch and we will be good to go. Yes @Kitties-with-Sigs, I will update my thread.... I've been super busy in life and lazy here..... You ain't catchin' no shade from me, man. I can't keep up either.  |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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So I had my eyes on a Westinghouse WGEN20000 with 2x 50amp plug ins. I'm getting 2x 50x outlets installed to backfeed my 2 panels for the house along with the 2x interlock kits for the panels. The genset is out of stock, is there any other genset with 2x 50amp plug-ins? Also what is the largest inverter gensets out there today? |
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Originally Posted By Keep_the_Change: So I had my eyes on a Westinghouse WGEN20000 with 2x 50amp plug ins. I'm getting 2x 50x outlets installed to backfeed my 2 panels for the house along with the 2x interlock kits for the panels. The genset is out of stock, is there any other genset with 2x 50amp plug-ins? Also what is the largest inverter gensets out there today? Damn I hope you plan to convert it to tri-fuel. from the specs "Up to 17 Hours of Run Time at 25% load on a 17 Gallon Fuel" You sure you need that much power? |
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Originally Posted By Bounce19712: anything to consider with/when buying one or two of the inverter generators at 7300feet altitude? my main worry is getting water from the well if the grid stops working. Originally Posted By Bounce19712: anything to consider with/when buying one or two of the inverter generators at 7300feet altitude? my main worry is getting water from the well if the grid stops working. You'll take a pretty big derate on nameplate capacity at that altitude so be sure to size accordingly. A general formula can be used to calculate close estimates for the output levels. The standard derating formula states that for every 1000 ft above sea-level, a gasoline, diesel, or liquid propane generator usually should be derated by 2 3% of its standard output. In case of generators using natural gas, the derating factor is typically closer to 5%. https://www.generatorsource.com/Generator_Output_Rating.aspx |
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Originally Posted By Bounce19712: anything to consider with/when buying one or two of the inverter generators at 7300feet altitude? my main worry is getting water from the well if the grid stops working. |
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Seasonal bump Air turned cool today. Right on the equinox.
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By DeanQ: Does anyone have a whole house generator with a MANUAL transfer switch? If you are supplying your house from the generator, how do you know when the grid is back up and can swap back? Assume you can't see your neighbors  When you report the power is out to your power company, can't you request a phone call, message or email to let you know the power is back on? |
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
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Originally Posted By DeanQ: Does anyone have a whole house generator with a MANUAL transfer switch? If you are supplying your house from the generator, how do you know when the grid is back up and can swap back? Assume you can't see your neighbors |
The system works, you just have to know how to work the system...R²
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/49BBD18D-97A4-49CF-A9C7-174D5D2D3EFF_jpeg-1072083.JPG Works fine, runs everything, almost 15 years - not the most efficient but it's natural gas so it's pretty transparent except a bit of noise Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15: Originally Posted By nikdfish: As mentioned earlier, codes vary. In our case, here in NC, I was told I could not have a transfer switch for our main panel feed unless we could accommodate all the panel loads either via generator capacity or automatic load management. Switching off excess loads, manually, prior to connecting was a no go. We ended up going the whole house, autoswitch route for the NC retirement house. We already had a self owned 500 gallon LP tank for the furnace, but eventually added a second one. The big advantage to self owned tanks is the freedom to use whichever supplier you want at refill time. For roughly 20 years we had made do with a gas fueled, portable brushless 3600 rpm unit with < 5% THD. No problems with any electronics (including UPS units) or appliances. Aside from extension cord hassles, the biggest management issue was keeping up with rotating a dozen containers of fuel so nothing got too old before getting used (+ storing far enough from the house to be safe, but close enough for availability & security) Tell me more about the propane tank thing. Ours is a lease tank, and I despise the provider and the tank fees. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/14291/49BBD18D-97A4-49CF-A9C7-174D5D2D3EFF_jpeg-1072083.JPG Works fine, runs everything, almost 15 years - not the most efficient but it's natural gas so it's pretty transparent except a bit of noise |
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Bumping this good thread. Great time for education for a lot of folks. Should we have learned earlier? Of course! Can we learn now? Yep.  |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By NCUrk: Just had a 30K Kohler put on the pad. Will be run off of Natural gas. 2 story, 4800 sqft house. Will be adding a pole barn down the road. Wife said she wants to be able to run both AC units, all lights, Fridge in the kitchen, Upright freezer and upright Refer, plus I am planning on getting a 48foot 2 door commercial freezer (I plan on having room for a whole beef cow, a couple pigs and deer meat.) Now just to get the Electrician to show up and wire it and the auto-disconnect/change over switch and we will be good to go. Yes @Kitties-with-Sigs, I will update my thread.... I've been super busy in life and lazy here..... OFF TOPIC but.. @NCUrk I love the sigline you have right now.
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Originally Posted By 1975: What is this referring to? Originally Posted By 1975: Originally Posted By VK2XXM: Avoid the 3600 rpm air cooled screamers,they DONT last. What is this referring to? 3600 rpm air cooled vs 1800 rpm liquid cooled standby generator As far as that statement goes, it all depends on how much it’s used vs what it’s designed for IMO. |
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Bumping the generator thread for the winter season.
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Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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| I need to put some gas in mine and start it. I also need to order one of those canopies you showed me last year. I never got around to doing that. |
Nobody ever wakes me at 2 in the morning telling me that my grass is out on the highway.~~Radiopat
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
Wine is sunlight held together by water~~Galileo Galilei
Well-behaved women rarely make history~~Marilyn Monroe
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Bump to keep from archives and with a question: I've concluded I want a backup system on my farm. It has an 1,800 house with garage [I'll not back up out buildings]. I can 'swing' most anything [have the space [including for fuel tanks] and ability to pay] so diesel, propane and charging [maybe solar?] with batteries. I am even thinking of maybe part fuel of some sort coupled with a battery system in combination. I know nothing about this stuff and I'll read through the thread in the next few days What is the hive's thoughts, experiences and suggestions? Thanks in advance |