Posted: 10/15/2015 12:21:13 AM EDT
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So a friend and I went in on purchasing half of a cow earlier this year. We paid our deposit and were supposed to get the cow in September. So after getting in touch with the cow guy, he is now saying that the cow is a dairy cow, not a beef cow raised for meat. I am pretty sure I don't want the cow at this point due to lack of quality steaks etc. Should I just ask for my money back? Should I accept the dairy cow at a discount? Should I try to enforce our contract? If so, what should I ask for if he is unwilling to provide the cow we originally contracted for?
Thanks, HaM |
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Yeah, an old dairy cow is typically all ground for burger. If you paid for a steer, I would expect a healthy discount or refund. As far as getting your money back, around here it is HARD to find anything without being on an 18 month waiting list, so I would do some looking around before you demand money back. I would personally avoid dealing with this farmer in the future. |
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It really depends. A lot of guys do dairy beef. In fact, we bought a quarter off the farmer across the road a month ago. Many are Holstein steers that are grazed like you would an Angus steer, so the steaks are still plenty good. In fact, Holsteins are typically a bit leaner than an Angus, so if you don't like a lot of gristle, you will like the dairy beef. That said, we do usually get about 75% of the meat in burger since we use that a lot more.
Now, if its old Bessie the milk cow that he's had for the last 10 years, she's probably not going be quite as tasty as a grass fed feeder beef will be. My wife's family were dairy farmers and the would obviously make good use of an old cow and butcher it, but would also raise some dedicated feeder steers for beef. Typically it is priced accordingly...an Angus steer will bring a higher price than a holstien feeder beef will. Ask the farmer what you paid for and make sure you get just that. ETA...some info on Dairy beef. http://simplygrownbeef.com/holsteinbeef.html |
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It really depends. A lot of guys do dairy beef. In fact, we bought a quarter off the farmer across the road a month ago. Many are Holstein steers that are grazed like you would an Angus steer, so the steaks are still plenty good. In fact, Holsteins are typically a bit leaner than an Angus, so if you don't like a lot of gristle, you will like the dairy beef. That said, we do usually get about 75% of the meat in burger since we use that a lot more. Now, if its old Bessie the milk cow that he's had for the last 10 years, she's probably not going be quite as tasty as a grass fed feeder beef will be. My wife's family were dairy farmers and the would obviously make good use of an old cow and butcher it, but would also raise some dedicated feeder steers for beef. Typically it is priced accordingly...an Angus steer will bring a higher price than a holstien feeder beef will. Ask the farmer what you paid for and make sure you get just that. ETA...some info on Dairy beef. http://simplygrownbeef.com/holsteinbeef.html This ^^^ "dairy cow" doesn't mean bad meat. It could be a steer from a dairy breed, which means different, but not bad. FWIW, even dairy breeds still end up 50% female and 50% male, what to do with all the male calves? They still make good meat... educate yourself on the difference, find out if this is an old, worn-out milk cow or a dairy breed steer, and proceed once you know all the facts. |
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So a friend and I went in on purchasing half of a cow earlier this year. We paid our deposit and were supposed to get the cow in September. So after getting in touch with the cow guy, he is now saying that the cow is a dairy cow, not a beef cow raised for meat. I am pretty sure I don't want the cow at this point due to lack of quality steaks etc. Should I just ask for my money back? Should I accept the dairy cow at a discount? Should I try to enforce our contract? If so, what should I ask for if he is unwilling to provide the cow we originally contracted for? Thanks, HaM There are a lot of questions to ask about this "cow" and unfortunately it sounds like you don't know what to ask to get the real lowdown on what you're getting. 1 What breed? 2-How old? 3-What weight? 4-Is it actually a cow? Or is it a steer? Or a bull? Or a heifer (I doubt this last.) A cow is a female that's been bred previously/borne a calf (generally speaking). A heifer is a female that has NOT been bred/borne a calf. (generally speaking). A steer is a male that's been castrated. (you need to know WHEN it was castrated. Yesterday is not the same as a couple of years ago in terms of the meat.) A bull is an intact male. Those are just the beginning of what to ask. i would not pay top dollar for a dairy animal I wanted to slaughter for meat, especially if I was after steaks. I take it you did not make this contract with the farmer but relied on the "other half" party to do this? ETA: If the other half of the party knew this was a dairy cow and did not tell you, your issue is with them. a-If this is a dairy farmer, you can't make him give you a beef animal because he doesn't (probably) have that. If you try to make him give you a beef cow, that's going to be a lot of trouble and who knows what you'll get. b- Since you didn't know what you were doing in the first place, trying to enforce what you don't know about is just going to frustrate everybody involved. c-If he "sold" you a beef animal and is now trying to sub in a dairy animal, you don't want to deal with him (or her) anyway because that's not honest. Who wants to buy food from a dishonest person? I would ask for my half of the deposit back and do some learning before the next purchase, but that's just me and YMMV of course. 
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask.
HaM |
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. |
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As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Quoted:
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. |
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM Yes. If this is a young Holstein steer, you stand a much better chance of getting more meat of the kind you want. You will not get the amount of steak from a Holstein that you would get from a typical beef animal. But it's far, far better than an old cow who's quit giving enough milk and is getting sold for meat. |
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Ok, new information. The cow is a 1.5-2yo Angus-Holstein cross steer. He has already said he (the farmer) is not satisfied with the size of the tenderloins. He is willing to make things right with us by lowering the cost or giving us make up meat with pig or chickens. All in all, after talking to him, I don't get the feeling he is being shady. My inclination at this point is to work it out with him.
HaM |
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Quoted: Ok, new information. The cow is a 1.5-2yo Angus-Holstein cross steer. He has already said he (the farmer) is not satisfied with the size of the tenderloins. He is willing to make things right with us by lowering the cost or giving us make up meat with pig or chickens. All in all, after talking to him, I don't get the feeling he is being shady. My inclination at this point is to work it out with him. HaM First, it is not a COW. For those who know critters, everything that goes "moo" is NOT a cow. We area talking about a steer (castrated male). That age is typical for butchering of steers. That fact that this one is not putting on weight as normal is likely NOT the farmer's fault. Sounds like the farmer is being quite honest by telling you that your steer has not grow to expectations, and is trying to make good on it. I would work with him for sure. |
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Ok, new information. The cow is a 1.5-2yo Angus-Holstein cross steer. He has already said he (the farmer) is not satisfied with the size of the tenderloins. He is willing to make things right with us by lowering the cost or giving us make up meat with pig or chickens. All in all, after talking to him, I don't get the feeling he is being shady. My inclination at this point is to work it out with him. HaM EXCELLENT. So ask him how he recommends it be butchered....and then take that advice. And as a POTENTIAL option, ask him if he'd like to extend the "make things right" to next year, when he might have meat that would be more to your liking, and would he apply the discount to that animal... If I wanted beef, I wouldn't want pork or chicken. But you might be okay with that. I bet he will work with you however you want to work it. He knows his numbers, and sounds like he's an honest guy. That's a good outcome no matter what you choose. |
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Ok, new information. The cow is a 1.5-2yo Angus-Holstein cross steer. He has already said he (the farmer) is not satisfied with the size of the tenderloins. He is willing to make things right with us by lowering the cost or giving us make up meat with pig or chickens. All in all, after talking to him, I don't get the feeling he is being shady. My inclination at this point is to work it out with him. HaM As long as you are happy w/ grass fed lean beef, it should be OK. Do not expect well marbled steakhouse type meat. Holsteins can marble and provide excellent meat, but it takes a lot of corn. |
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Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Quoted:
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. |
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Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. Quoted:
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? |
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See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? Quoted:
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We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? I'm pretty sure they are straight Holstein in that they are the males that are born when trying to breed milk producing heifers. A lot of the 4-H kids raise and show them at the county fair too, and usually get a nice pay day at the auction. The steaks are actually very good and I've had no complaints on flavor or texture. When we've run low I have purchased some certified angus from the slaughter house (same place we have process our dairy beef) and they are also quite good. But I've never been so blown away that I don't want to go back to what we usually get. Honestly we've been very happy with the steaks, burgers, and roasts that we are fine sticking with it. I think it has as much to do with being fresh and for the most part grain and grass fed and allowed to graze in a fairly large pasture (vs. a large feedlot) Heck, about every 2nd or 3rd year we get a tongue and heart, as those typically rotate through the different folks that split. That's a little off topic, but heart and tongue are delicacies in and of themselves. Next time I talk to the farmer I'll check on the breeding to nail it down. He lives across the road and my daughter and I will help him feed when he's short handed. OP...we went a little off topic...did you get things figured out? |
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Quoted: See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We both talked to the farmer prior to putting our deposit in. We agreed that it would be a beef steer, for steaks primarily, grass fed, no growth hormones/antibiotics etc. Now the farmer is trying to change the deal. So I don't know what it is he is wanting to give us. I wanted to get more info, since I know nothing about dairy cows, I figured I had better ask. Now I know what questions to ask. HaM As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? |
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Several years ago the price of milk fell out and along with the droughts, milk producers sold off their holstein herds and a few "ranchers" started selling them as beef cattle. At best they are hamburger. They are not beef cattle. Some of them old country boys will get into your pockets faster than some of the city slickers. Know what you are buying, be specific and get it in writing. Quoted:
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As noted, a beef steer can be of a "dairy" breed like a Holstein. If you simply agreed to a beef steer, and didn't specify Black Angus or another species, a Holstein steer is certainly an appropriate beef steer, and will typically be a little less $/lb than say a Black Angus. Most farmers I know would not EVER consider calling a Holstein a beef steer. A Holstein is a dairy animal. A lot of people refer to all bovines as beef, but people more in the know do not. You may have some inside track that I don't, so I don't mean to be argumentative, but "beef cattle" are not Holsteins according to any honest farmer I've ever known, and I've known a lot of them. The link to "holstein beef" notwithstanding, in the larger population, holsteins are not beef. That verbiage may vary depending on who you're talking to I suppose, but if a farmer says, "I raise beef," he ain't talkin' about Holsteins. Ever. Edited to make sure I'm making sense....it is certainly beef as opposed to pork or chicken or venison. But if a farmer said he was selling me a half of a beef animal and tried to then give me a Holstein, we would have a problem. He knows better. And if it's some attempt to change the perception in the marketplace, it still needs to be laced with a lot of honesty right up front. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Around here Holstein steers are raised as "dairy beef" so as to clearly classify it as that breed. We regularly buy at least 1/2 a beef a year of dairy beef. See that's cool. It's clear up front what you're getting. What are yours crossed with and how do the steaks compare with straight beef animal? Well, that's exactly the environment I was worried about--same thing has happened in a lot of areas of the country when dairy began to consolidate-- and I feel this way about Holstein vs a more nearly beef animal as well, BUT...a steer handled and fed properly, as the earlier poster said, is VERY different than a dairy cow slaughtered when she ages and/or production goes down or when prices are too low to sell and feed to high to make sense keeping her. So in the end, you are right in that it really IS about knowing exactly what you're getting and working with somebody who's honest. The OP said, though, that his farmer was the one who was "unhappy with the tenderloins" and offered to compensate. I don't think anybody was suggesting that country people are more inherently honest. Good and bad folks everywhere.
It's also, to me, about educating yourself about the meat. The trouble with this whole thing is that buying beef on the hoof or contracting for meat this way requires a bit of education. Not as simple as going to the grocery and picking up a package of steaks or burger. Easy to get disappointed. |
| It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. |
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It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. |
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You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. Quoted:
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It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. 
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As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. Quoted:
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It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. You must have gotten an old cow that was past her prime! Good farm raised beef beats store bought beef hands down. I don't mind store bought and we buy plenty....but farm raised is the best. |
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As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. Quoted:
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It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. A lot goes into making high-quality, tender beef. ColtRifle is correct in his reply. It sounds like they were getting rid of their older, worn out animals--or they castrated a bull too late--no way to guess accurately--but THIS is what has given anything that is not straight high-quality beef animals a bad reputation, and that's honestly not fair. A well-handled animal of any breed CAN yield good-tasting, tender meat. It's just that dairy animals are not the BEST suited animals for giving the most meat per pound of feed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't buy them, but the price per pound should be adjusted accordingly. You don't pay the same money per pound of on-the-hoof holstein beef that you pay for Angus, Hereford/cross, etc, because you're not getting as much of the higher-quality cuts from that animal. But farmers who pawn off old animals, dairy cows who are no longer producing, or animals who haven't been otherwise managed so the meat doesn't get tough--those are the bad guys, and bad experiences get around fast. The modern dairy-cross beef producers are having to live down those kinds of experiences. Not fair, but it is what it is. It always pays to ask up front-- a-What breed animal will I be getting? b-How old is the animal? c-When was the animal castrated? (if it's a male) d-Can I see the animal before I buy it? Then do a little research. If you're dropping enough money for half of a beef animal, it's worth an afternoon to go see the thing. If the farmer won't agree to let you see the animal (or group of animals, one of which will be yours) I would pick another farmer. He may say, "I don't have them yet," but then he will also probably say when he's going to get them and that you are welcome to come look. Or he can show you similar animals if he has a regular rotation. I would also get references from people who've eaten said farmer's beef before. Lots of stuff can go wrong with this experience. Lots of stuff can go right. As in all things, buyer beware. It's about education. I know we've gone past the OP's original question, but it's still on his topic and the input from everyone is so valuable it seems worth it. OP, PLEASE, feel free to step in and say, "hey, I wanted to talk about X, not Y and Z."
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A lot goes into making high-quality, tender beef. ColtRifle is correct in his reply. It sounds like they were getting rid of their older, worn out animals--or they castrated a bull too late--no way to guess accurately--but THIS is what has given anything that is not straight high-quality beef animals a bad reputation, and that's honestly not fair. A well-handled animal of any breed CAN yield good-tasting, tender meat. It's just that dairy animals are not the BEST suited animals for giving the most meat per pound of feed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't buy them, but the price per pound should be adjusted accordingly. You don't pay the same money per pound of on-the-hoof holstein beef that you pay for Angus, Hereford/cross, etc, because you're not getting as much of the higher-quality cuts from that animal. But farmers who pawn off old animals, dairy cows who are no longer producing, or animals who haven't been otherwise managed so the meat doesn't get tough--those are the bad guys, and bad experiences get around fast. The modern dairy-cross beef producers are having to live down those kinds of experiences. Not fair, but it is what it is. It always pays to ask up front-- a-What breed animal will I be getting? b-How old is the animal? c-When was the animal castrated? (if it's a male) d-Can I see the animal before I buy it? Then do a little research. If you're dropping enough money for half of a beef animal, it's worth an afternoon to go see the thing. If the farmer won't agree to let you see the animal (or group of animals, one of which will be yours) I would pick another farmer. He may say, "I don't have them yet," but then he will also probably say when he's going to get them and that you are welcome to come look. Or he can show you similar animals if he has a regular rotation. I would also get references from people who've eaten said farmer's beef before. Lots of stuff can go wrong with this experience. Lots of stuff can go right. As in all things, buyer beware. It's about education. I know we've gone past the OP's original question, but it's still on his topic and the input from everyone is so valuable it seems worth it. OP, PLEASE, feel free to step in and say, "hey, I wanted to talk about X, not Y and Z." Quoted:
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It's all in how you feed them. I know plenty of farmers that raise Holstein bull calves for beef cattle. They castrate them when it's time and feed them out like a regular beef cow. Really the only difference between a true beef breed and a Holstein is that the Holstein will be taller and less filed out in the rear end. They don't put on weight or fill out like a beef cow breed. If the Holstein is fed properly and was raised from a calf it will be good quality. You are right --Good quality meat, certainly. But the bottom line is that there is a HUGE difference in the muscle mass between a dairy animal and a beef animal--and in their genetic ability to put on muscle--which means a lot of difference in the amount of meat you get that isn't just for burger when you buy an animal on the hoof.. It's NOT just the rear end. The loin, the strip, the shoulder, and yes the butt-- all of the "meat" areas are more massive on a beef animal. A dairy animal--even a castrated male--will never have that bulk. It's like a body builder as compared to a runner, no matter what you do to it. So as long as the farmer is up front--"you're buying a Holstein, Holstein cross, or as someone (maybe you?) said, "dairy beef" it's fine. Not like it's tainted or anything. But a dairy breed animal is not going to yield the same amount of steaks (of any body part) per pound of feed. The genetics of the breed just won't allow that to happen. And anybody buying beef on the hoof needs to know that. As usual - good stuff, thanks! I wish I had known this about 10 years ago. I bought a half of a cow, worst purchase decision I ever made in my entire life. About $600 and we had to throw most of the meat away it was so tough and tasted so bad. A lot goes into making high-quality, tender beef. ColtRifle is correct in his reply. It sounds like they were getting rid of their older, worn out animals--or they castrated a bull too late--no way to guess accurately--but THIS is what has given anything that is not straight high-quality beef animals a bad reputation, and that's honestly not fair. A well-handled animal of any breed CAN yield good-tasting, tender meat. It's just that dairy animals are not the BEST suited animals for giving the most meat per pound of feed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't buy them, but the price per pound should be adjusted accordingly. You don't pay the same money per pound of on-the-hoof holstein beef that you pay for Angus, Hereford/cross, etc, because you're not getting as much of the higher-quality cuts from that animal. But farmers who pawn off old animals, dairy cows who are no longer producing, or animals who haven't been otherwise managed so the meat doesn't get tough--those are the bad guys, and bad experiences get around fast. The modern dairy-cross beef producers are having to live down those kinds of experiences. Not fair, but it is what it is. It always pays to ask up front-- a-What breed animal will I be getting? b-How old is the animal? c-When was the animal castrated? (if it's a male) d-Can I see the animal before I buy it? Then do a little research. If you're dropping enough money for half of a beef animal, it's worth an afternoon to go see the thing. If the farmer won't agree to let you see the animal (or group of animals, one of which will be yours) I would pick another farmer. He may say, "I don't have them yet," but then he will also probably say when he's going to get them and that you are welcome to come look. Or he can show you similar animals if he has a regular rotation. I would also get references from people who've eaten said farmer's beef before. Lots of stuff can go wrong with this experience. Lots of stuff can go right. As in all things, buyer beware. It's about education. I know we've gone past the OP's original question, but it's still on his topic and the input from everyone is so valuable it seems worth it. OP, PLEASE, feel free to step in and say, "hey, I wanted to talk about X, not Y and Z." In my case, it would have paid me $600 or so. OK, back to the OP's question..... which was what again? 
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For those interested.... If you go to see an animal you're buying, how do you know what you're looking at? Well, you can use google. Pull up that breed and see what it should look like. Pull up that breed--say you use the key words "Holstein dairy animal" Then add "Young Holstein dairy animal" then "old Holstein cow" (you'll see the udder hanging down, and see how she looks as compared to a younger animal" Type in "Holstein steer" "Holstein meat steer" etc etc... Get creative and find images of what that animal looks like in various stages of life. Then when you go to see the animal, your brain will help you form an impression based on a little bit of education. Of course, you can always ask here. You can even take photos and post them here before you make a commitment. There was a thread recently where the original poster was asking about dual-purpose animals and meat animals for his homestead. He was talking about the smaller breeds, but some folks asked questions and I posted this...a brief tutorial about how to think about and assess animals/breeds. It's on topic, so I will link to it here...FWIW.. My two cents, and I bet there are others here with cattle experience who would chime in with good practical information.... Understanding Dairy breeds vs Beef breeds |
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Good to see the farmer made things right. FWIW, my FIL raises cattle. He raises mostly Angus and some of the other popular beef stock breeds to sell. When he grows his own for meat, he always grows a Jersey steer, or some cross with milk and beef stock in it. He says dairy steers, or steers with some milk stock in them, taste so much better than straight Angus, and I'd have to agree. I've never been impressed with Angus. Good luck. |