Posted: 10/20/2011 5:13:50 PM EDT
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Where can find 14 ga, 3.5 cathater needles? Or are these controled items?
Edited title to avoid confusion. raf |
| You better be pretty sure you are doing the right thing before you stick one of those in someone's chest. I've see a few paramedics needle chests that didn't need it, and they are trained to do it. Do you have endotracheal tubes, a laryngoscope and BVM as well? |
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From one "cat hater" to another, is this what you're looking for:
Chinook Medical If you don't have the training I wouldn't bother. Given the odds of running into a doctor after your GSW and being out of range of emergency responders... I'd go buy powerball tickets instead. |
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You better be pretty sure you are doing the right thing before you stick one of those in someone's chest. I've see a few paramedics needle chests that didn't need it, and they are trained to do it. Do you have endotracheal tubes, a laryngoscope and BVM as well? I'll just echo this. |
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script only, and will get you a "drug paraphernalia" charge if you are ever stopped and searched and have them with/on you. second thing is, have you ever had any training on using them? i will assume you want a 14g needle for chest decompression. 1. Ben is GTG. I have met him, and he is an intelligent individual. I understand all the warnings/objections, but not needed in this particular case. As an aside, I'm a former EMT II with 2 years in a very busy district myself. 2. As for "illegal; preccription only; don't get caught with them;"... not in Utah. You can buy Leur-Lok needles on a walk-in basis at most pharmacies, and there is no law against possession. The issue is finding anything larger than a 20ga 1-1/2" on the shelf. An OTN catheter is not to be found locally in any size, but can be ordered in from many online vendors. They aren't stocked locally, as the catheter denotes venipuncture and patients aren't qualified to do that themselves, whereas IM's and sub-cu's are easily taught to most patients. Regards, Greg |
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You better be pretty sure you are doing the right thing before you stick one of those in someone's chest. I've see a few paramedics needle chests that didn't need it, and they are trained to do it. Do you have endotracheal tubes, a laryngoscope and BVM as well? i DO have all of the above in my kit and i really have no desire to decompress a chest cavity in the field. |
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script only, and will get you a "drug paraphernalia" charge if you are ever stopped and searched and have them with/on you. second thing is, have you ever had any training on using them? i will assume you want a 14g needle for chest decompression. 1. Ben is GTG. I have met him, and he is an intelligent individual. I understand all the warnings/objections, but not needed in this particular case. As an aside, I'm a former EMT II with 2 years in a very busy district myself. 2. As for "illegal; preccription only; don't get caught with them;"... not in Utah. You can buy Leur-Lok needles on a walk-in basis at most pharmacies, and there is no law against possession. The issue is finding anything larger than a 20ga 1-1/2" on the shelf. An OTN catheter is not to be found locally in any size, but can be ordered in from many online vendors. They aren't stocked locally, as the catheter denotes venipuncture and patients aren't qualified to do that themselves, whereas IM's and sub-cu's are easily taught to most patients. Regards, Greg Yes you can get those types of needles at almost any Pharmacy. Aside from that a 3.5" 14ga angio pretty much only has one purpose, and that is why the FDA has the "Medical Device" restrictions on them. There is plenty of information in meeting minutes from the TCCC Committee that show even seasoned combat medics who have done plenty chest decompressions screw them up more then they get them right. It is a low incidence high acuity skill - a combination that tends to make procedures go wrong more often then go right. It's not poor training or poor technique, it is just a tough skill to do correctly. I was a Medic for 16 years in two high volume systems and have done 2 of them, both of them without success. Not sure why but at the time we were using short 14ga angio's, not 3.5". There is an agency here in Colorado that is performing bilateral chest decompressions on any trauma arrest just before they do a field pronouncement, just in case as well as to get the practice. I have to agree with many here that without proper training - both assessing of the patient and the actual skill - you are better off staying away from it. Even if you are looking at an hour transport to a trauma center a chest seal placed properly in a timely manner will get the patient to the hospital alive. If you seal the hole(s) it is very difficult for a tension pneumothorax to develop. In a SHTF situation - Survive and do what you need. In everyday life at the range, an ND occurs, keep the needle away, slap a chest seal on fast and get EMS en route. Stay Safe |
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Not trying to stir the pot, but it always kinda makes me think when people list all their qualifications and training, then go on to say they don't know how to find, acquire, or purchase the supplies they're trained to use. Ah, never known too many .mil then. |
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Yes, I have had extensive traning on the use of these. Where am going I want them for my bag. Thanks Spectre for the good words.
No I am not an armchair commando that sits around reading my computer all day and then suddenly want something because I read about on the internet. |
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There is a cartoon book from the 70's called "The I Hate Cats Book", it's something along the lines of the Far Side and I believe you can get it through Amazon. Can't help you with the other thing. I have that book, bought it when I was in high school. My older cousin (PETA member) went ape shit one time when she saw that book on the coffee table. These days she might be on one of those shows about a 60 year old divorced woman who lives alone except for the multitudes of cats she has in her apartment (sad really). 
the official "I hate cats" book |
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I really wish people would lighten up around here...
If I could afford to equip my BOL with a full OR, MRI and ALS equipment I would... Most of the people I run into at the range have just enough training with a gun not to shoot themselves, you wouldn't deny them that right would you? Why the hell do any of you care if he has the training to do a needle Thoracostomy? If it really is TEOTAWAKI and you don't have the gear, there is no chance of performing it even if someone with proper training is on hand. Most of the properly trained medical professionals I know do not keep medical supplies stocked at home. Disclaimer: I am not advocating untrained people engaging in advanced medical procedures that could harm the patient. I am simply stating that having a good stock pile of medical supplies is not a bad thing. |
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Not trying to stir the pot, but it always kinda makes me think when people list all their qualifications and training, then go on to say they don't know how to find, acquire, or purchase the supplies they're trained to use. Ah, never known too many .mil then. This. And BTW, I do. I also know one who only recently retired from the .mil, who just happens to be looking for a chest needle right now. I would say it surprises me; this wailing and gnashing of teeth every time someone inquires about sources for supplies more complicated than a bandaid...but it doesn't. Half the population feels the need to write a 3 paragraph reply, chastising the poster for everything from ignorance to criminal intent, when a simple "Are you qualified to use it?" would suffice. All this before the respondents even have a clue about one's background or training. Self-righteous doesn't even begin to describe it. What a waste of bandwidth. Just a thought: LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS! Oh, and Ben- You know me...I call it as I see it, and I do know you to be a good and competent man. I won't sit and watch a friend be dog-piled over a simple question by folks who don't know you, let alone your qualifications. We need to get together for some lunch or dinner soon. I'm in SL every Tue and Wed night till the end of Nov. |
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Not trying to stir the pot, but it always kinda makes me think when people list all their qualifications and training, then go on to say they don't know how to find, acquire, or purchase the supplies they're trained to use. Ah, never known too many .mil then. This. And BTW, I do. I also know one who only recently retired from the .mil, who just happens to be looking for a chest needle right now. I would say it surprises me; this wailing and gnashing of teeth every time someone inquires about sources for supplies more complicated than a bandaid...but it doesn't. Half the population feels the need to write a 3 paragraph reply, chastising the poster for everything from ignorance to criminal intent, when a simple "Are you qualified to use it?" would suffice. All this before the respondents even have a clue about one's background or training. Self-righteous doesn't even begin to describe it. What a waste of bandwidth. Just a thought: LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS! Oh, and Ben- You know me...I call it as I see it, and I do know you to be a good and competent man. I won't sit and watch a friend be dog-piled over a simple question by folks who don't know you, let alone your qualifications. We need to get together for some lunch or dinner soon. I'm in SL every Tue and Wed night till the end of Nov. Hey Francis- You friend could have spent 3 seconds doing a google search for what he was looking for, but instead he came here. This was the option chosen and the results followed. In a forum full of preppers who analyze every smidgen of their own life down to the most minute detail, what do you expect when it comes to buying things to poke into someone's body? |
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Not trying to stir the pot, but it always kinda makes me think when people list all their qualifications and training, then go on to say they don't know how to find, acquire, or purchase the supplies they're trained to use. Ah, never known too many .mil then. This. And BTW, I do. I also know one who only recently retired from the .mil, who just happens to be looking for a chest needle right now. I would say it surprises me; this wailing and gnashing of teeth every time someone inquires about sources for supplies more complicated than a bandaid...but it doesn't. Half the population feels the need to write a 3 paragraph reply, chastising the poster for everything from ignorance to criminal intent, when a simple "Are you qualified to use it?" would suffice. All this before the respondents even have a clue about one's background or training. Self-righteous doesn't even begin to describe it. What a waste of bandwidth. Just a thought: LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS! Oh, and Ben- You know me...I call it as I see it, and I do know you to be a good and competent man. I won't sit and watch a friend be dog-piled over a simple question by folks who don't know you, let alone your qualifications. We need to get together for some lunch or dinner soon. I'm in SL every Tue and Wed night till the end of Nov. Hey Francis- You friend could have spent 3 seconds doing a google search for what he was looking for, but instead he came here. This was the option chosen and the results followed. In a forum full of preppers who analyze every smidgen of their own life down to the most minute detail, what do you expect when it comes to buying things to poke into someone's body? This is a topical forum and people come here for the knowledge base for that reason; to locate related resources they may not be aware of, or vendors with a particularly good reputation or who are preferred due to their standing in this community. If you had spent 3 seconds analyzing his question, maybe you wouldn't have been so quick to assume he was an armchair commando. Thanks for all you've added to the discussion though, it's been most helpful. 
ETA: I am well acquainted with the term "Angiocath." I am also familiar with colloquialism. |
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Ok.
Sorry if my expressed concerns rubbed you and the OP the wrong way. Seems thread dealing with medical supplies/procedures (quick clot, catheters, sutures, staplers, etc.) always bring out the questions of qualifications and training. I linked a catheter to Chinook Medical in my first post on page 1. Hope that helps. |