Posted: 3/4/2016 3:10:55 AM EDT
So I was getting ready for work tonight and the power goes out again. This is the third or fourth multi hour outage in the past four months, and we have been with out power for the better part of a day twice in the last six months. When I moved to this area the power went out twice a year, now days it seems like its out every time I turn around. The outages seem to be getting longer too. I don't really know what is responsible for this deteriorating dependability, but I wonder if the issue is strictly local or if any one else has seen an increase in outages. Have you noticed the power dropping off line in you area with increasing regularity? Has the duration of the outages gotten longer?
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Has there been an EMP event in your area? Are you near the new HUUUGE Utah .gov information collection and storage installation, it may be sucking power from the grid... If anything, the area surrounding such an installation should have more reliable power than places far from it... even if the base itself has its own UPS/generators. |
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Well, where I am, 30 years ago the power would go out at least 2-3 times a week (I am not exaggerating--old style VHS machine would always let you know when the power dropped out). These days, we rare lose any power even during a tropical storm or Hurricane near miss. |
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A few times a year.
A few predisclosed for maintenance a couple storm related. Not a big deal in this area where I am at. Now back in 97 NY got a kick in the balls during a big ice storm. A huge number of the poles were well beyond their service life with rotten cores. There was much more damage than there should have been. The power company favored the bottom line and delayed their replacement and burnt themselves and their customers. Maintenance delayed is merely a disaster growing in size. A few places I lived were much more frequent, I'm talking 20-25 years ago and forward. One place went out every time the wind blew. We always had candles at the ready and a few oil and k1 lamps. Didn't matter if it was summer or winter. |
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That would be the kind of thing you want to keep an eye on. Decline of power infrastructure, roads, public schools, etc. It generally means the country/state/county is running out of money. FerFAL Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. |
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Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Quoted:
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That would be the kind of thing you want to keep an eye on. Decline of power infrastructure, roads, public schools, etc. It generally means the country/state/county is running out of money. FerFAL Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Very rare in the US for the government to own a power supply. I know of an incorporated village that owns it's own hydroelectric supply. ff what we have is private corporations who are regulated and licensed by the government for the public interest but they're still for profit companies. They have to get government commission approval in my state to up the rates. |
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Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Quoted:
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That would be the kind of thing you want to keep an eye on. Decline of power infrastructure, roads, public schools, etc. It generally means the country/state/county is running out of money. FerFAL Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Same as in most other countries. Still, it is directly linked to the country's infrastructure. If in general terms you see problems with the quality or reliability of power its a bad sign. FerFAL |
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Quite rural here, and I believe in the four years we've been out here, we lost it once, in a big storm, and only for a few hours. I lost several hundred trees to that storm, which also ravaged the most populated area of my county, and overall power outages were measured in hours, with only a couple neighborhoods out for a day or so.
There are overhead power lines, but also a great deal of underground, especially up to the meters. That being said, we pay for it. Electric bill is I think 50 or so dollars of taxes and fees each month, for 80 or so of electric use |
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Now back in 97 NY got a kick in the balls during a big ice storm. A huge number of the poles were well beyond their service life with rotten cores. There was much more damage than there should have been. The power company favored the bottom line and delayed their replacement and burnt themselves and their customers. . That storm was INSANE. Miles and miles and miles of forest flattened, stripped of all branches, every single utility pole broken. I couldn't believe my eyes when I went up there to help. It was absolutely crazy and a huge eye opener for me. As for power going out more often: I noticed it locally and asked my aunt about it. She had worked for the local REA for five decades and had seen many changes over the years. She mentioned they were more reactive than proactive about maintenance now. They used to send brush crews out annually year round to clear the rights of way for the lines but sometime in the 1990s they decided they could save money by doing it less often and just fixing things when power went down. I guess it does make sense, us most around here don't even employ their own brush crews now, they contract Asplundh every couple years. It probably varies by location but it definitely happened around here. |
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Same as in most other countries. Still, it is directly linked to the country's infrastructure. If in general terms you see problems with the quality or reliability of power its a bad sign. FerFAL Quoted:
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That would be the kind of thing you want to keep an eye on. Decline of power infrastructure, roads, public schools, etc. It generally means the country/state/county is running out of money. FerFAL Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Same as in most other countries. Still, it is directly linked to the country's infrastructure. If in general terms you see problems with the quality or reliability of power its a bad sign. FerFAL I agree to a point except the infrastructure is vastly different not only state to state but even within a state. The most northern portions of NY are vastly different then NYC, which are also different then the western portion of NY. Head to western states like CO and its different again. Power comes from a number of different plant generation systems... Maintenance and up keep greatly plays a role in the power staying on. Much of that boils down to the private company running the utility company. We have a few in my AO, NY-Seg, National gird to name a few. Some have better equipment, some are contracted to do maintenance. Its a cycle just like anything else. Some years they spend more time on random pole replacement, other years they won't touch it till its broke. It all depends on the parent company. Most of which are owned over seas. 
My brother works as a lineman. Our power has been the same for as long as I can remember. We loose it more often then not, but its always caused by an ice storm, wind storm, or car taking out a pole 
Very rarely do we have an unexplained power outage, but living in the mountains it does happen more often for us then most. As far as roads go, less traveled side roads, town and county have always been rough in my AO. They do crappy repave jobs every few years just like always but the state keeps on doing repave jobs on the main roads and some of them in my area are better then ever. The town keeps on raking our dirt roads... Yup we have miles and miles of dirt roads in northern NY. In fact I drive 30 miles one way to work and can probably stay on dirt roads for 1/3 of my commute. Makes for a fun ride to work on my KLR. Every time they re-do a road they are putting in better ditching and larger culverts to account for the more extreme weather and water flow... I will say we are seeing more extreme weather lately, which could be a contributing factor. We had all ice this year, almost no snow. Last year was one of the coldest winters on record. Much of these crazy storms and odd weather patterns are causing more power outages. If it stays dry this spring, fire season could be worse then last year, and again, more acres burned in America last year then in recorded history I believe... Almost 10 million acres burned, and that's not even counting the undocumented remote Alaska fires that burned all summer. I watch the news quite a bit and no one is talking how more of America is burning in wild fires each year. with such little snowfall even in upstate NY this year, and considering how dry it was last spring, I honestly think we could be looking at some real wild fires this year like the area has never seen. I hope it rains enough to make my prediction wrong though. 
I agree that the infrastructure in the USA is declining, much of the equipment has lived its life cycle. There are plenty of documentaries on this. I don't feel things will drop off over night, but the way our .gov (local, state, fed) spends money and is in debt, there is no way they will have enough extra to keep up... Heck, most cant keep up with the interest on what they owe. I don't think anything is going to drop off over night other then maybe the dollar, but even that, like the roads, will be a nice slow ride. All of this is food for though, and makes a good debate. 
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That storm was INSANE. Miles and miles and miles of forest flattened, stripped of all branches, every single utility pole broken. I couldn't believe my eyes when I went up there to help. It was absolutely crazy and a huge eye opener for me. As for power going out more often: I noticed it locally and asked my aunt about it. She had worked for the local REA for five decades and had seen many changes over the years. She mentioned they were more reactive than proactive about maintenance now. They used to send brush crews out annually year round to clear the rights of way for the lines but sometime in the 1990s they decided they could save money by doing it less often and just fixing things when power went down. I guess it does make sense, us most around here don't even employ their own brush crews now, they contract Asplundh every couple years. It probably varies by location but it definitely happened around here. Quoted:
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Now back in 97 NY got a kick in the balls during a big ice storm. A huge number of the poles were well beyond their service life with rotten cores. There was much more damage than there should have been. The power company favored the bottom line and delayed their replacement and burnt themselves and their customers. . That storm was INSANE. Miles and miles and miles of forest flattened, stripped of all branches, every single utility pole broken. I couldn't believe my eyes when I went up there to help. It was absolutely crazy and a huge eye opener for me. As for power going out more often: I noticed it locally and asked my aunt about it. She had worked for the local REA for five decades and had seen many changes over the years. She mentioned they were more reactive than proactive about maintenance now. They used to send brush crews out annually year round to clear the rights of way for the lines but sometime in the 1990s they decided they could save money by doing it less often and just fixing things when power went down. I guess it does make sense, us most around here don't even employ their own brush crews now, they contract Asplundh every couple years. It probably varies by location but it definitely happened around here. Yup this is true. I see more Asplundh trucks around in the summer then national grid or nyseg. |
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Very rare in the US for the government to own a power supply. I know of an incorporated village that owns it's own hydroelectric supply. ff what we have is private corporations who are regulated and licensed by the government for the public interest but they're still for profit companies. They have to get government commission approval in my state to up the rates. Quoted:
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That would be the kind of thing you want to keep an eye on. Decline of power infrastructure, roads, public schools, etc. It generally means the country/state/county is running out of money. FerFAL Except the power infrastructure in the us is not a govt utility. It is owned by the power conpanies. Very rare in the US for the government to own a power supply. I know of an incorporated village that owns it's own hydroelectric supply. ff what we have is private corporations who are regulated and licensed by the government for the public interest but they're still for profit companies. They have to get government commission approval in my state to up the rates. And except Tennessee Valley Authority which is a government owned company. Agreed that a declining infrastructure can be a warning to rough things coming but honestly we aren't in that bad of a situation. It has to do with how your power company is run and if they are proactive or reactive. I've got a coop customer that burned up their steam turbine because they didn't upgrade their monitoring system in the last 30 years. They are now shelling out big money to get it fixed. That is an example of a "reactive" customer. |
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Noticeably worse in my area, my computer logs outages so it's easy to compare.
In the past year I've had two 4+ hour outages in good weather, and more than a half dozen shorted interruptions in bad weather. Prior to this year, my last long outage only affected my house and couple neighbors when a bobcat decided the transformer was a safe place to escape to. Part of it is grid maintenance, and the other part is that our local utility is pushing the existing lines pretty hard -- there's been appreciable development in the area since the last larger feeder lines were installed, and the NIMBY types that are living in the new developments that increased the power demand keep blocking the new lines, Thanks to the higher loads and stress the existing lines are failing a lot more frequently than in the past. |
| The best place to ask is any industry subject to curtailment. They might not can tell you how "healthy" the grid is, but they always have a good idea of reserve generating capacity. Were it not for on-call facilities across the US you would see rolling blackouts in many areas during the summer. |
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Why are peak power stations a bad thing? Quoted:
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Were it not for on-call facilities across the US you would see rolling blackouts in many areas during the summer. Why are peak power stations a bad thing? They are good, but just enough to keep everything going if everything is normal. If a few turbines in an area are down for non-routine maintenance, there is no other give. I can understand not having more, though, at least at the one facility I've worked at the upkeep costs are high, and power generation costs even higher when needed. |
| And Chief Justice Roberts just refused to hear the appeal of the EPA's egregious and horseshit 'clean air' mandates on coal-powered power plants - which make up 80%+ of our grid. Many plants will be shuttered on these ridiculous new regs, that mandate the air coming out of a coal smokestack be CLEANER than the air around the plant. Rolling brownouts are coming, soon. |
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All news reports I see say the power grid is out of date, but power consumption goes up.
Our power fluctulates at times so I I have a APC on the TV/satellite system and Interesting how the govt. dumped 10 trillion $$ into welfare programs, failed green power scams & bank bailouts the last 8 years and only a small fraction into critical infrastructure. |
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Very rare to loose power other than from a bad storm. Even then, not much and not long. In fact, power hadn't gone out since we bought our generators 4 years ago. Exactly. Bought 4 gennys years ago of various sizes/outputs, and haven't had a power outage since.
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In 15-years we've had one scheduled outage of 1.5 hours (transformer upgrade). Outside of that I don't think we've been offline for more than a couple of minutes but for two or three times. Amazingly stable power.
Not having weather helps as does the fact that the city is less than 30 years old. |
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When we used to live in Colorado, there were a lot of new homes/developments going in near us. Power used to go out all the time, ostensibly because of installs/taps to feed the new developments.
Now, I live near a large (mature) metro area, and the grid is stable as can be. I've never had to fire up my generator since we moved here in 2006. People are always talking about how the grid is a few pubic hairs from going down for months. I don't buy into that. The power companies get paid when they deliver electricity. No electricity, no money. It's in their best interest to keep the juice flowing. And also, all the talk of EMP and that sort of nonsense taking down the national grid....how many times to power lines get zapped by lightning? I would expect the current induced locally by a lightning bolt has a greater impact than an EMP. If the grid can handle a spike of 100 million volts and 10,000 amps, I'd say it's pretty robust. |
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And also, all the talk of EMP and that sort of nonsense taking down the national grid....how many times to power lines get zapped by lightning? I would expect the current induced locally by a lightning bolt has a greater impact than an EMP. If the grid can handle a spike of 100 million volts and 10,000 amps, I'd say it's pretty robust. While I agree EMP is overblown, lightning /= EMP in area of effect. Lightning might take out part of a local substation, some transformers, etc, while EMP has the possibility of being a regional to national scale event. Also, power companies are not always on top of things, did you know many power lines in the US are not even mapped? I know because I interviewed with a company when I graduated college that needed people to do just that. AFAIK they are still doing big business at that. |
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We rarely have a real outage here. Momentary outages aren't unheard of...a recloser operating, usually. Probably wildlife or trees branches.
The power company I work for does tons of work in reliability projects, but even with that we have parts of the system that could use upgrades. |
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Local delivery has probably become more reliable, largely due to the increase in use of underground hv lines and better protective relays. Almost every one of those fractional second "blips" these days would have been a localized outage somewhere 20 years ago.
Of a bigger concern in many parts of the country are natural gas fired power plants. Much of the natural gas infrastructure is now less reliable that 20 years ago. Natural gas compressor stations used to be powered by the same natural gas that moved through the pipeline. The electric power needs of the compressor station was met using natural gas powered generators that were onsite. If there was gas in the pipe, they could pump it. To achieve emission reductions mandated by the EPA, almost all of those compressor station generators have been replaced with utility power. The same is true with the Gas Processing plants that clean and process what the gas wells produce so it can be sent into the pipelines. We have already seen several instances in the US where intentional rolling power outages ( during periods when there was more demand than electricity) have knocked gas process plants and gas compressor stations offline, which then caused power generation plants to go offline. Spend a minute thinking through that... especially the scenario where s large regional power outage might occur due to a hurricane or earthquake. How do you get the power on without natural gas? How do you get the gas flowing without electricity? |
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I'm going with depends on where you live. Around here we have an outstanding power district. Very few outages lots of proactive maintenance lots of planning for growth.
Now that said I can see that certain management groups could be far more driven by the bottom line than others and there is probably a general push to keep it cheap. With those localized pushes undoubtedly some districts and power areas will suffer poorer and poorer service especially with the current plan to tax power until it all turns into solar and wind production. |