Posted: 2/5/2015 2:30:31 PM EDT
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So, as a followup to the other BOL thread - I saw mention in there that some folks have a BOL that they have financed. I had not considered ever doing this until recently.
I have a small BOL that I used to live at, but kept up now that we moved, that is in a good spot with 4 acres/creeks, well, septic, etc - that is well kept up. It has always been kept up for a county get-away or for a family member to live in if they needed financial help, etc. This property was paid for in cash, so no financing involved. I have been looking for a long time, and recently found a new rural place with house, 20 acres, good location, creek, already has a house, that is within 1/2 an hour of work so we could live their regularly, plenty of places to sleep or have family, friends over. Good garden spots, basement. etc. I've got plenty from family to help develop the land. Problem is that I don't have the money to "pay cash" for it. I could pay a huge chunk down, but am debating just putting a limited amount down, keeping the other cash as a buffer (this is not my emergency fund), and just paying extra on a monthly basis. I don't necessarily mind having a mortgage in this case as I've already got a paid for place, and it is not a burden to make the payment. On the other hand, debt is bad for the most part, but I know that having this place would definitely expand the family I could have come over if SHTF or in any other disaster. Just wanted to get the SF opinion, what would you do in this case? Would you want to start storing food, etc at a place that wasn't actually paid for? |
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Depends on overall situation. I think tj has put it best at times where he mentions some specific item might not be paid for but the overall picture of your finances shows it would not be hard to keep paying for it if you lost your job or whatever. He will be along to word this better, I think he was talking about vehicles at the time I am trying to remember him mentioning it is not just your bank account you consider but your entire financial bucket or buckets. To me it would depend on your financial situation, I currently have required overtime and more job security than I want and it is messing up regular chores outside of work. So to me, income is pretty steady but it still comes at a price. You are talking about having money kept back, how many months of money would you have available if you lost your income? I am the person who spends on deals and if money is tight or I want something else I get into selling what I bought. So selling some stuff to finish paying off the place might work, might not. Depends on what we are talking about money wise. I don't really see stocking the place as an issue I guess. More going to limit permanent changes til it is mine. I would also consider the concept that if it is yours you still have to pay those lovely property taxes to keep it yours. So I sort of look at monthly payments as no biggy if they are no biggy. Depends on amount of income though. |
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If things get so terrible your family has to bug out and live off stored food, who's going to foreclose on you? I say go for it. Interest rates are at historic lows. This assumes you're able to avoid PMI, of course. This is what I figure too. Of course, I'd rather be debt free, when planning to care for a family, maybe it is not always best to wait for the "best" when you can work toward your goal, while also enjoying it. |
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Financing your main residence is probably ok.
I'd rather own the land I was planning on using to protect my family. It would suck to be 18 months into a SHTF scenerio and have a bank officer show up with the "local" sheriff and evict you. And that might easily happen. |
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Financing your main residence is probably ok. I'd rather own the land I was planning on using to protect my family. It would suck to be 18 months into a SHTF scenerio and have a bank officer show up with the "local" sheriff and evict you. And that might easily happen. Yep. Keep saving. Make an offer for what you can pay and see what happens. People surprise you sometimes. |
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This is what I figure too. Of course, I'd rather be debt free, when planning to care for a family, maybe it is not always best to wait for the "best" when you can work toward your goal, while also enjoying it. Quoted:
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If things get so terrible your family has to bug out and live off stored food, who's going to foreclose on you? I say go for it. Interest rates are at historic lows. This assumes you're able to avoid PMI, of course. This is what I figure too. Of course, I'd rather be debt free, when planning to care for a family, maybe it is not always best to wait for the "best" when you can work toward your goal, while also enjoying it. Actually I can see foreclosure being one of the main things that will happen. Any SHTF scenerio will effect financial markets. The bank president or board of directors will and have in the past realize that the hard assets the bank owns will need to be reclaimed to remain viable. And trust me those bankers will see it as an asset. They will turn over every single secured loan to a hard assed lawyer and make every attempt to reclaim those assets. Your behind on payment for 31 days. Off to whatever legal authority is available to foreclose in you. Communication will be sporadic so maybe you get the notice and maybe you don't. Officer shows up and tells you to be gone in 24 hours. Here is the judges order..... Happened during the Great Depression..... |
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Financing your main residence is probably ok. I'd rather own the land I was planning on using to protect my family. It would suck to be 18 months into a SHTF scenerio and have a bank officer show up with the "local" sheriff and evict you. And that might easily happen. It's a calculated risk. To mitigate: 1) In this scenario, get to know the local sheriff. 2) Do not wrap your taxes and insurance into escrow. Keep those taxes paid up however possible, and put the house payment and insurance down the priority list as appropriate. 3) If the banker comes calling, offer anything else up to keep the place. |
I can finance agricultural/hobby farm/raw land/cabin/hunting property in 50 states with 25% down. I just had a meeting about this product in my company this week. Anybody IM me if you need help with this and I would be happy to discuss it. 18 year mortgage financing guy here. Helped a lot of ARFCOMMERS to date. 
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Actually I can see foreclosure being one of the main things that will happen. Any SHTF scenerio will effect financial markets. The bank president or board of directors will and have in the past realize that the hard assets the bank owns will need to be reclaimed to remain viable. And trust me those bankers will see it as an asset. They will turn over every single secured loan to a hard assed lawyer and make every attempt to reclaim those assets. Your behind on payment for 31 days. Off to whatever legal authority is available to foreclose in you. Communication will be sporadic so maybe you get the notice and maybe you don't. Officer shows up and tells you to be gone in 24 hours. Here is the judges order..... Happened during the Great Depression..... Quoted:
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If things get so terrible your family has to bug out and live off stored food, who's going to foreclose on you? I say go for it. Interest rates are at historic lows. This assumes you're able to avoid PMI, of course. This is what I figure too. Of course, I'd rather be debt free, when planning to care for a family, maybe it is not always best to wait for the "best" when you can work toward your goal, while also enjoying it. Actually I can see foreclosure being one of the main things that will happen. Any SHTF scenerio will effect financial markets. The bank president or board of directors will and have in the past realize that the hard assets the bank owns will need to be reclaimed to remain viable. And trust me those bankers will see it as an asset. They will turn over every single secured loan to a hard assed lawyer and make every attempt to reclaim those assets. Your behind on payment for 31 days. Off to whatever legal authority is available to foreclose in you. Communication will be sporadic so maybe you get the notice and maybe you don't. Officer shows up and tells you to be gone in 24 hours. Here is the judges order..... Happened during the Great Depression..... The key is, so long as you are doing your part, then they can never legally foreclose. It's a pretty calculated risk to avoid coming up with a ton of liquid cash that can be better spent elsewhere. |
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The key is, so long as you are doing your part, then they can never legally foreclose. It's a pretty calculated risk to avoid coming up with a ton of liquid cash that can be better spent elsewhere. Quoted:
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If things get so terrible your family has to bug out and live off stored food, who's going to foreclose on you? I say go for it. Interest rates are at historic lows. This assumes you're able to avoid PMI, of course. This is what I figure too. Of course, I'd rather be debt free, when planning to care for a family, maybe it is not always best to wait for the "best" when you can work toward your goal, while also enjoying it. Actually I can see foreclosure being one of the main things that will happen. Any SHTF scenerio will effect financial markets. The bank president or board of directors will and have in the past realize that the hard assets the bank owns will need to be reclaimed to remain viable. And trust me those bankers will see it as an asset. They will turn over every single secured loan to a hard assed lawyer and make every attempt to reclaim those assets. Your behind on payment for 31 days. Off to whatever legal authority is available to foreclose in you. Communication will be sporadic so maybe you get the notice and maybe you don't. Officer shows up and tells you to be gone in 24 hours. Here is the judges order..... Happened during the Great Depression..... The key is, so long as you are doing your part, then they can never legally foreclose. It's a pretty calculated risk to avoid coming up with a ton of liquid cash that can be better spent elsewhere. The doing your part is what can get tricky. Having bought numerous properties and houses with mortgages myself over the years, can you really say you read every single page and every single clause on your loan paperwork. And fully understood all 20-50 pages of legalese? While right now the lender wants your money rather then the asset and is willing to give extensions, reductions, and changes for you to keep paying, the lending industry isn't really well known for its simplicity or its honesty. I truly can't think of where else I would spend money besides security of the land. Once food, water, and protection are covered. And let's be fair, a good one year supply plan for a family of four is not really that cost prohibitive. Especially once you use the land as part of that supply. (Ie.. Garden, chickens, foraging) Buying gadgets instead of land seems like more of a waste to me. Just my $0.02. |
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I can finance agricultural/hobby farm/raw land/cabin/hunting property in 50 states with 25% down. I just had a meeting about this product in my company this week. Anybody IM me if you need help with this and I would be happy to discuss it. 18 year mortgage financing guy here. Helped a lot of ARFCOMMERS to date. IM sent |
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The doing your part is what can get tricky. Having bought numerous properties and houses with mortgages myself over the years, can you really say you read every single page and every single clause on your loan paperwork. And fully understood all 20-50 pages of legalese? While right now the lender wants your money rather then the asset and is willing to give extensions, reductions, and changes for you to keep paying, the lending industry isn't really well known for its simplicity or its honesty. I truly can't think of where else I would spend money besides security of the land. Once food, water, and protection are covered. And let's be fair, a good one year supply plan for a family of four is not really that cost prohibitive. Especially once you use the land as part of that supply. (Ie.. Garden, chickens, foraging) Buying gadgets instead of land seems like more of a waste to me. Just my $0.02. What parts don't you understand? Put another way, there is always time to review documents before signing. Lenders and banks are governed by law, as are contracts. Contrary to popular belief, lenders are not able to "Slip in" specific tricky language to somehow be able to take your land. The fact is, more lenders have lost 100% of their lien rights in the last 10 years by not having properly worded or executed mortgages...which is why they are so damned complicated these days. |
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What parts don't you understand? Put another way, there is always time to review documents before signing. Lenders and banks are governed by law, as are contracts. Contrary to popular belief, lenders are not able to "Slip in" specific tricky language to somehow be able to take your land. The fact is, more lenders have lost 100% of their lien rights in the last 10 years by not having properly worded or executed mortgages...which is why they are so damned complicated these days. Quoted:
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The doing your part is what can get tricky. Having bought numerous properties and houses with mortgages myself over the years, can you really say you read every single page and every single clause on your loan paperwork. And fully understood all 20-50 pages of legalese? While right now the lender wants your money rather then the asset and is willing to give extensions, reductions, and changes for you to keep paying, the lending industry isn't really well known for its simplicity or its honesty. I truly can't think of where else I would spend money besides security of the land. Once food, water, and protection are covered. And let's be fair, a good one year supply plan for a family of four is not really that cost prohibitive. Especially once you use the land as part of that supply. (Ie.. Garden, chickens, foraging) Buying gadgets instead of land seems like more of a waste to me. Just my $0.02. What parts don't you understand? Put another way, there is always time to review documents before signing. Lenders and banks are governed by law, as are contracts. Contrary to popular belief, lenders are not able to "Slip in" specific tricky language to somehow be able to take your land. The fact is, more lenders have lost 100% of their lien rights in the last 10 years by not having properly worded or executed mortgages...which is why they are so damned complicated these days. I'm not saying that you or I don't understand them. Just that there can be complicated scenarios and being in the middle of a SHTF scenerio would be the hardest time to find out these complications. And having bought houses on both sides of the financial changes I have seen first hand the differences nowadays. Hell the first house I ever bought I showed them my pay stub and gave them my social security number and signed the paperwork 4 weeks later. The last one I bought I had to put my first born in the banks safe overnight.... Haha I'm kidding. But it's the little twists and turns that will be unforeseen in difficult times we prepare for. Reducing that risk is what we do. I also IM'd you because I might need to finance some more land. I'm not against financing. I Just think that owning the primary BOL is one more step to being prepared and reducing the risk. |
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IM sent Quoted:
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I can finance agricultural/hobby farm/raw land/cabin/hunting property in 50 states with 25% down. I just had a meeting about this product in my company this week. Anybody IM me if you need help with this and I would be happy to discuss it. 18 year mortgage financing guy here. Helped a lot of ARFCOMMERS to date. IM sent Ditto |
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I'm not saying that you or I don't understand them. Just that there can be complicated scenarios and being in the middle of a SHTF scenerio would be the hardest time to find out these complications. And having bought houses on both sides of the financial changes I have seen first hand the differences nowadays. Hell the first house I ever bought I showed them my pay stub and gave them my social security number and signed the paperwork 4 weeks later. The last one I bought I had to put my first born in the banks safe overnight.... Haha I'm kidding. But it's the little twists and turns that will be unforeseen in difficult times we prepare for. Reducing that risk is what we do. I also IM'd you because I might need to finance some more land. I'm not against financing. I Just think that owning the primary BOL is one more step to being prepared and reducing the risk. Quoted:
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The doing your part is what can get tricky. Having bought numerous properties and houses with mortgages myself over the years, can you really say you read every single page and every single clause on your loan paperwork. And fully understood all 20-50 pages of legalese? While right now the lender wants your money rather then the asset and is willing to give extensions, reductions, and changes for you to keep paying, the lending industry isn't really well known for its simplicity or its honesty. I truly can't think of where else I would spend money besides security of the land. Once food, water, and protection are covered. And let's be fair, a good one year supply plan for a family of four is not really that cost prohibitive. Especially once you use the land as part of that supply. (Ie.. Garden, chickens, foraging) Buying gadgets instead of land seems like more of a waste to me. Just my $0.02. What parts don't you understand? Put another way, there is always time to review documents before signing. Lenders and banks are governed by law, as are contracts. Contrary to popular belief, lenders are not able to "Slip in" specific tricky language to somehow be able to take your land. The fact is, more lenders have lost 100% of their lien rights in the last 10 years by not having properly worded or executed mortgages...which is why they are so damned complicated these days. I'm not saying that you or I don't understand them. Just that there can be complicated scenarios and being in the middle of a SHTF scenerio would be the hardest time to find out these complications. And having bought houses on both sides of the financial changes I have seen first hand the differences nowadays. Hell the first house I ever bought I showed them my pay stub and gave them my social security number and signed the paperwork 4 weeks later. The last one I bought I had to put my first born in the banks safe overnight.... Haha I'm kidding. But it's the little twists and turns that will be unforeseen in difficult times we prepare for. Reducing that risk is what we do. I also IM'd you because I might need to finance some more land. I'm not against financing. I Just think that owning the primary BOL is one more step to being prepared and reducing the risk. I think that also. And to clarify my OP, my primary BOL is paid for. This would actually be a new BOL that I could live at full time, and might down the road become primary - i don't think I could consider it primary until it was paid for though. |
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So, as a followup to the other BOL thread - I saw mention in there that some folks have a BOL that they have financed. I had not considered ever doing this until recently. I have a small BOL that I used to live at, but kept up now that we moved, that is in a good spot with 4 acres/creeks, well, septic, etc - that is well kept up. It has always been kept up for a county get-away or for a family member to live in if they needed financial help, etc. This property was paid for in cash, so no financing involved. I have been looking for a long time, and recently found a new rural place with house, 20 acres, good location, creek, already has a house, that is within 1/2 an hour of work so we could live their regularly, plenty of places to sleep or have family, friends over. Good garden spots, basement. etc. I've got plenty from family to help develop the land. Problem is that I don't have the money to "pay cash" for it. I could pay a huge chunk down, but am debating just putting a limited amount down, keeping the other cash as a buffer (this is not my emergency fund), and just paying extra on a monthly basis. I don't necessarily mind having a mortgage in this case as I've already got a paid for place, and it is not a burden to make the payment. On the other hand, debt is bad for the most part, but I know that having this place would definitely expand the family I could have come over if SHTF or in any other disaster. Just wanted to get the SF opinion, what would you do in this case? Would you want to start storing food, etc at a place that wasn't actually paid for? Mac, this thread is one of the few "Buying a BOL" that makes a lot of sense in most respects, and I can't think of one respect it doesn't. 
First, there is NOTHING wrong with debt if MANAGED properly by RESPONSIBLE parties. This country would have never been able to grow without the fractional Banking System and the necessary debt to make it work. [What has resulted is the subject for another topic] You already own a paid-for BOL location and from your post I suspect it is desirable to another Buyer, so you likely have a significant financial resource right there if you were to liquidate it and you probably should if you purchase the improved 20 acres. The property you have found sounds perfect from your description. One thing to keep in mind is it's marketable [from your description] and if something should go wrong in your life, your property could likely be sold quickly at a modest loss, or maybe take longer for a profit. It depends on economic conditions at the time. The fact you could pay a huge chunk down speaks to your financial responsibility. Doing this however, might be a bad idea. You are considering putting a small amt down, and IMO that's the best initial move. I think it's best to hold as large a cash reserve as you can so that if things go wrong, you have a Cash Cushion to ride out the storm. I've posted many times here in the past, that if a person buys a property with bank financing, and accelerates the loan payoff and gets way ahead on the mortgage, and runs into hard times and can't make payments for some reason or another... Then goes hat in hand to the Banker and explains to the Banker [or PRIVATE LENDER] that he can't make the payments and 'splains why... That insensitive lenders may just tell the debtor to go piss up a rope and then foreclose as soon as they are able and take the property back. Since you believe that owning this property would pay dividends amongst your family, that's the final nail in the decision process to go and commit to do it. So, NEGOTIATE negotiate, negotiate -FAIRLY and with integrity... Don't get EMOTIONALLY involved like we see such extremes in another thread, and become blind to common sense. Storing food or other supplies there, until you have the property well established and secure, I probably wouldn't do it right away too much. When I did there would be reasonably priced security measures in place to deter and record trespassers and the ability to monitor the premises remotely. That's a financial and intlellectual investment most EVERY -seriousness of purpose- owner of a 'retreat' should strongly consider --the ones who actually implement said system separate the men from the boys to a degree. These measures would include some sort of secure area. Let us know how this works out for you and your family! 
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You mentioned you wouldn't consider this BOL 'Primary' until it was paid for...
I understand the psychology because I think exactly the same way. None-the-less, if you have the cash reserves to pay the debt for a considerable time, then when you have accumulated enough, and possibly sold your first BOL, to pay the 20 acre one off, then I'd have no issues 'THINKING' about it as mine and Primary from the git-go. It all comes down to common sense and personal responsibility, having a family that's on-board, and the ability to generate discretionary cash to live your life. We have threads that demonstrate the sorta opposite and there's a lot to be learned from both kinds. |
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Thanks EXP for the great comments. That is close to what I have been thinking, but reassurance that I am not off track is reassuring. None of my family or close friends have experience with buying land or preparing a BOL, so what I read in the SF is important to me.
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