Posted: 2/5/2014 12:56:55 PM EDT
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I create a smallish pile of copper wire scrap. Cut-off ends, junk wire, etc. Mostly automotive strand stuff. I don't bring it in for recycle on the idea that some day I will melt it down and make solid copper bullets with it. Practical at all? Any of you done this?
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Only thing I would add to this is that you may consider whether or not you have access to a foundry (?) or smelting (?) operation that could melt it down for you, as it requires high heat. 1900+ degrees. Depending on how much you wanted to spend on simply having it melted, may be cheaper just to buy pre-made copper bullets.
Found an old thread that also discusses melting copper scrap for bullets. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/336749_Making_solid_copper_bullets.html Forgive me, I have not yet learned how to hyperlink... |
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No flames intended, but this makes no sense. You'd be miles ahead by taking the copper to the scrap yard and swapping it for lead. Lead will melt at a lower temperature, without excessive heat requirements. Molds are already made (for lead) as are things like sizing dies. You aren't going to be successful trying to drive a solid copper bullet through a size die. Even if you could make a copper bullet, you now have a monolithic solid copper bullet, with zero expansion potential. This gets you exactly what over a cast lead bullet?
If you picture end of the world, and need to cast bullets (which is starting to get pretty far fetched), you are going to want lead. |
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Here's bamasvt47's link made clickable http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/336749_Making_solid_copper_bullets.html I tried smelting copper years back, and it cost me more time and effort than it's worth. Your fuel cost alone (unless you get Anthracite coal and fire brick for free) is going to be almost double the cost of buying copper round stock and turning that on a lathe. I would suggest saving up your copper until you have a 5gal bucket of it and the price is up (it is kinda low right now), then scrap it for cash, or trade it for scrap they have (lead, copper/brass round, whatever). If you want to just try your hand at smelting, start off with tin or aluminum; its easier, lower temp and if you use aluminum on a fire ant mound, it makes some awesome decorations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGJ2jMZ-gaI |
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No flames intended, but this makes no sense. You'd be miles ahead by taking the copper to the scrap yard and swapping it for lead. Lead will melt at a lower temperature, without excessive heat requirements. Molds are already made (for lead) as are things like sizing dies. You aren't going to be successful trying to drive a solid copper bullet through a size die. Even if you could make a copper bullet, you now have a monolithic solid copper bullet, with zero expansion potential. This gets you exactly what over a cast lead bullet? If you picture end of the world, and need to cast bullets (which is starting to get pretty far fetched), you are going to want lead. I am going to agree with frozenny on this. Reason being, I scrap copper frequently and also cast my own lead bullets. I have a small smelting pot and burner that does 50lbs of lead, its alot of work till you get rolling with it. I never get it hot enough to even make the copper soft. It takes tons of heat to melt copper. I cast from a smaller pot with the clean lead into STEEL moulds, not cheap moulds(went that route) and can make hundreds of lead heads for cheap. I bring in the copper for scrap and take lead in return for the price they sell it to their lead buyer. Makes it very cheap this way! Copper $3.00 per pound Lead 40 cents a pound |
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I NEVER considered trading it for lead! Any particular kind of lead to to look/ask for? I know car batts are no good. No batterys at all, for sure! Cant recover the lead for our use. Most of the time they will have bins with different metals in them so if you are able to walk around see if you can scope it out first. Then when you put your copper on the scale, ask what the price of lead to buy is.....what their buyer buys it for, they will usually sell it to you for same price. Here on L.I. i find lots of wheel weights, lead sinkers and ingots for plumbing. As far as having to sell "tons", thats not true at all. A 5 gallon bucket with cut up copper pipe, cut at 12 to 18in pieces could get about 100 bucks when the price is about $3.40. Also, you can sell other metals such as brass valves, alluminum, cast iron, and steel, just to name a few. Also, the cleaner the metal the better the price! So strip the wire, or remove valves from the pipe! |
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Really think people back 2,000 + years ago were melting gold,sliver and bronze they did not have fancy gas powdered tools they did it over coal or something else but no gas like we have now! So why can people do back then with less then we can do now with more?
Copper C 1084 F 1983 Gold, 24K PureC 1063F 1945 Beryllium Copper C 865 - 955 F 1587 - 1750 Silver, Coin C 879 F 1615 Silver, Pure C 961 F 1761 Silver, Sterling C 893F 1640 Aluminum BronzeC 600 - 655F 1190 - 1215 Temps given by So as you can see it can be done man has been doing it sometime with just coal or other materials other then compressed gas! Might take time but hell it would be fun to try! You can get steel 2600-2800 to melt so what does it take to forge? I'm not sure but I have forged a few knives over coal and a fan! I might take this up to make a homemade boolite from copper using only using everyday coal or compressed gas! |
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What would it take to smelt battery lead to get more pure stuff? The calcium and arsenic in battery plates are not good for you to be around. The dross from melting them down will, if contacted with water or even humid air will release stibnine, a gaseous arsenic compound. The amount of useable lead in the battery is very small for the amount of work. The plates of newet batterys are also perforated to use less lead to make them. Go to the local scrap yard and buy lead bends(pipe) or lead wire or wheel weights. Really the best and healthest way to do it. Cause smelting should be done in an open area with lots of air flow due to the fumes. |
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Really think people back 2,000 + years ago were melting gold,sliver and bronze they did not have fancy gas powdered tools they did it over coal or something else but no gas like we have now! So why can people do back then with less then we can do now with more? Copper C 1084 F 1983 Gold, 24K PureC 1063F 1945 Beryllium Copper C 865 - 955 F 1587 - 1750 Silver, Coin C 879 F 1615 Silver, Pure C 961 F 1761 Silver, Sterling C 893F 1640 Aluminum BronzeC 600 - 655F 1190 - 1215 Temps given by So as you can see it can be done man has been doing it sometime with just coal or other materials other then compressed gas! Might take time but hell it would be fun to try! You can get steel 2600-2800 to melt so what does it take to forge? I'm not sure but I have forged a few knives over coal and a fan! I might take this up to make a homemade boolite from copper using only using everyday coal or compressed gas! Yes, but you forgot lead at a melting point of 621 deg..... To melt at a higher temp, you really need very controled conditions like a foundry would have. It can/could be done for sure at home. But is it worth all the trouble?? I personally dont think it is, my time is better spent casting lead bullets and loading them into 45acp cases and shootin em!! |
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tayous1: Copper melts nicely in a coal fired smelting kiln, with a good day of pumping a bellows. The issue comes from the cost of coal now being much more than it was back then, since almost no one uses coal today when compared with as recent as the 1940s (on an individual basis, not industrial). Quoted: What would it take to smelt battery lead to get more pure stuff? Battery lead is alloyed with arsenic and cadmium, both of which will either vaporize during smelting (as the alloy requires higher temps to melt than WW or linotype), or bond with the moisture in the air, forming extremely toxic and volatile fumes. On top of this the lead sulfide will decay into lead oxide and sulfur oxide in the slag, both of which are severely toxic to be around. Reclaiming batteries is a hazmat operation requiring proper equipment, licenses and safe disposal of the toxic chemicals, and if found out and reported for doing so (commonly by neighbors), you can face some hefty fines from the EPA. Save yourself time, money and health: just trade the batteries for lead scrap at the scrap yard. Most metal recycling companies get some form of government assistance for taking back "hazardous" batteries so average joe doesn't poison the groundwater or himself, and are happy to trade WW/linotype/pipes pound for pound in most cases. |
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Yes, but you forgot lead at a melting point of 621 deg..... To melt at a higher temp, you really need very controled conditions like a foundry would have. It can/could be done for sure at home. But is it worth all the trouble?? I personally dont think it is, my time is better spent casting lead bullets and loading them into 45acp cases and shootin em!! Quoted:
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Really think people back 2,000 + years ago were melting gold,sliver and bronze they did not have fancy gas powdered tools they did it over coal or something else but no gas like we have now! So why can people do back then with less then we can do now with more? Copper C 1084 F 1983 Gold, 24K PureC 1063F 1945 Beryllium Copper C 865 - 955 F 1587 - 1750 Silver, Coin C 879 F 1615 Silver, Pure C 961 F 1761 Silver, Sterling C 893F 1640 Aluminum BronzeC 600 - 655F 1190 - 1215 Temps given by So as you can see it can be done man has been doing it sometime with just coal or other materials other then compressed gas! Might take time but hell it would be fun to try! You can get steel 2600-2800 to melt so what does it take to forge? I'm not sure but I have forged a few knives over coal and a fan! I might take this up to make a homemade boolite from copper using only using everyday coal or compressed gas! Yes, but you forgot lead at a melting point of 621 deg..... To melt at a higher temp, you really need very controled conditions like a foundry would have. It can/could be done for sure at home. But is it worth all the trouble?? I personally dont think it is, my time is better spent casting lead bullets and loading them into 45acp cases and shootin em!! Agree lead is better but it would be kind of cool to cast you own copper boolites!! How many people can say they did that? |
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Save yourself time, money and health: just trade the batteries for lead scrap at the scrap yard. Most metal recycling companies get some form of government assistance for taking back "hazardous" batteries so average joe doesn't poison the groundwater or himself, and are happy to trade WW/linotype/pipes pound for pound in most cases. No, they don't get government assistance. On the contrary, they will actually buy the batteries, because a lead acid battery is one of the most recyclable products arround, in no small part because government regualtion of mining and smelting drives the price of new lead up. C&D claims a plastic case battery is 90-95 % recyclable- everything but the seperaters between the plates. |
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Just an FYI, I just read the last lead smelting foundry for newly mined lead was closed in the US due to increased EPA regulations.
Another FYI, though I'm not familiar with solid copper bullets, solid Bronze was a standard bullet in WWII considered Armor piercing, specifically in 8mm by the Germans. Heck of a round. Tj |
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Just scrap it and buy new copper rod or trade it for lead.
Melting copper isn't the problem with making copper bullets. The bullets will need to be cast using a centrifuge. Do you have a centrifugal caster? It's OK, the results probably wouldn't be good anyway. Or the bullets can be poured into a round ingot mould. The ingot will then need to be run through a mill to reduce diameter. After that it will need to be machined to shape on a lathe. Do you have a rolling mill? These things besides the need for ceramic crucibles and handles, ingot moulds (not the cast iron ones you use for lead), a good torch and fuel, casting flux, carbon rod, and probably a couple of other things I've forgotten about, make producing copper bullets from raw copper too much of a PITA for the hobbyist. |