Posted: 11/12/2013 5:40:27 AM EDT
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Post event one of my possible actions is high tailing it to my parents house (5 hour drive under normal circumstances). the parents have a decent amount of food, water, ammo, armory, etc. and in a safe sparsely populated area surrounded by fams on a penninsula.
I have decided I need to set up reupply points along the way, and I have 2 spots to use. A friend lives about 1:45 hours S or me (normal driving), in a very hevaily populated urban area, in a large apartment. Second is buying a house about 2:30 drive S, (normal conditions) in a very rural area (still researching the area a bit), however requires taking bridges to get there. I plan to set up caches at both locations, with more supplies at the 2nd location with the intent of it being more than just resupply if needed. (Site 2 is a couple Im very close with who are having a child and yes Im okay with the fact they may need to use my supplies. Site 1 is more of just a few things that if they disappear it wont kill me, but I do trust the guy, hes a former work partner). For basic resupply Im thinking: 10- 30 round mags, loaded 4- pistol mags, loaded 2- MREs 10 to 20 assorted canned foods 5- gallons drinking water pair of clothes (undies, socks, shirt, pants) pocket knife spare batteries for major electronic devices (cell phone, flahslights, optics) Anybody have any idea of anything else that should be included. I wouldnt feel comfortable leaving arms at location 1, location 2 I would, however its a different state so legalities come into play which makes it a pain in the ass. Location 1 already has firearms and is improving his arsenal. Location 2 does not but he has made the commitment to do so and has gotten the proper licenses and we will be going shopping this weekend for his first. Thanks |
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Quoted: Post event one of my possible actions is high tailing it to my parents house (5 hour drive under normal circumstances). the parents have a decent amount of food, water, ammo, armory, etc. and in a safe sparsely populated area surrounded by fams on a penninsula. I have decided I need to set up reupply points along the way, and I have 2 spots to use. A friend lives about 1:45 hours S or me (normal driving), in a very hevaily populated urban area, in a large apartment. Second is buying a house about 2:30 drive S, (normal conditions) in a very rural area (still researching the area a bit), however requires taking bridges to get there. I plan to set up caches at both locations, with more supplies at the 2nd location with the intent of it being more than just resupply if needed. (Site 2 is a couple Im very close with who are having a child and yes Im okay with the fact they may need to use my supplies. Site 1 is more of just a few things that if they disappear it wont kill me, but I do trust the guy, hes a former work partner). For basic resupply Im thinking: 10- 30 round mags, loaded 4- pistol mags, loaded 2- MREs 10 to 20 assorted canned foods 5- gallons drinking water pair of clothes (undies, socks, shirt, pants) pocket knife spare batteries for major electronic devices (cell phone, flahslights, optics) Anybody have any idea of anything else that should be included. I wouldnt feel comfortable leaving arms at location 1, location 2 I would, however its a different state so legalities come into play which makes it a pain in the ass. Location 1 already has firearms and is improving his arsenal. Location 2 does not but he has made the commitment to do so and has gotten the proper licenses and we will be going shopping this weekend for his first. Thanks Without understanding how the different state affects firearms ownership, it's impossible to say. Without knowing what scenarios you are going to bug out for, it's impossible to say. A bad winter storm? A hurricane? An EMP strike? A pandemic? Zombies? Are you bugging out before the "SHTF"? During? In the aftermath? IE., is the second state Massachusetts, where you have to have a FID or LIC-A or LIC-B? Transiting states like NYS or NJ with non-state-law compliant firearms in anything other than a total break down of society is "problematic", but if I had to guess, you're probably talking about a bug out spot in some place like coastal Maine and your buddy's house is someplace like Massachusetts, where people need a state license just to be able to have ammo. You can cross Massachusetts, for example, with non-Massachusetts's compliant guns, if you follow 18 U.S.C. § 921. But in less it's really the end of the world, I wouldn't get into a firefight. And most "SHTF" scenarios will probably never require you to be armed to the teeth. Why are you caching so much ammo and so little food and water? Do you anticipate a rolling firefight from your start point to the BOL? Again, what scenario are you planning for that would involve expending so much ammunition? |
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I am not a fan of storing stuff at someone else's apartment or house.
What happens when you need the stuff and they have bugged out so you can't get to it? Or they refuse to let you have it? I think a better approach is some kind of small storage facility that has 24 hour access. I would not be storing firearms or ammo under someone else's control no matter what. especially if there are legal issues with the state he lives in. |
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Quoted: .especially if there are legal issues with the state he lives in. I was going to suggest a storage unit, but, if as I guess, the "2nd state" is Massachusetts, the OP can't have ammunition there (legally) - he can pass through with it as per the FOPA, but caching it isn't a FOPA-covered activity. And if the OP is doing a vehicular bug out, why is he needing to cache such an extensive ammunition resupply - but just a small amount of food and water, etc.? |
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Quoted:
I was going to suggest a storage unit, but, if as I guess, the "2nd state" is Massachusetts, the OP can't have ammunition there (legally) - he can pass through with it as per the FOPA, but caching it isn't a FOPA-covered activity. And if the OP is doing a vehicular bug out, why is he needing to cache such an extensive ammunition resupply - but just a small amount of food and water, etc.? Quoted:
Quoted:
.especially if there are legal issues with the state he lives in. I was going to suggest a storage unit, but, if as I guess, the "2nd state" is Massachusetts, the OP can't have ammunition there (legally) - he can pass through with it as per the FOPA, but caching it isn't a FOPA-covered activity. And if the OP is doing a vehicular bug out, why is he needing to cache such an extensive ammunition resupply - but just a small amount of food and water, etc.? my guess is so he can brag about it on the Internet. |
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Quoted: Post event one of my possible actions is high tailing it to my parents house (5 hour drive under normal circumstances). the parents have a decent amount of food, water, ammo, armory, etc. and in a safe sparsely populated area surrounded by fams on a penninsula. SNIP... Anybody have any idea of anything else that should be included. SNIP... Thanks If you are doing a vehicular bug-out, you can carry everything you listed in your vehicle (unless it's a motorcycle and even then you should be able to). Why would you need these items? Because you bugged out with nothing? In which case, you need a complete duplicate bug-out bag cached early along your route (no detours to other states). If you need caches because you think it's going to take days or weeks instead of hours to get to your parents' place "post event" then you need food, water, gas, etc. If you think you are going to have to walk, you need food and water caches every 40 or so miles (figure you can carry three days food and water and then you have to be in shape to do it). You aren't going to have a rolling gunfight during your three hour bug out unless things have completely broken down and society isn't coming back. And even in that case, if you bug out before or just after, you still probably won't (people won't be desperate yet). Why do you need caches? What is the purpose of the cache? What scenarios do you see driving you to bug out? In SF we cached supplies to continue our mission so we didn't have to carry them or so we could support a change of mission. Again, what is the scenario you think these caches support? I would second the use of 24-access storage facilities, but none with electronic access and they'd have to be adjacent to my proposed bug-out route in relatively safe areas. Are you driving south across another state to get to your parents? Or would these be detours? NO DETOURS! Items. Water Food Shelter Warmth Defense (situation and scenario dependent). |
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Its a resupply point is all .
Your looking too deeply into it. It is not MA, however I am very aware of the legalities and will not be breaking any laws. As far as why would I stash supplies when I have a vehicle? Your retarded. Who knows if that's going to work? Shit will be gridlocked and who knows if vehicles will be practical. Rolling gun battle? No. But I want to have it stashed if need be. Is 10 a bit much? Absolutely. Back to the conversation, a storage unit isnt feasible due to costs. I do trust them enough to leave stuff, and as far as I see its just a bonus. If I can get it great, if I can't, oh well carry on. No better or worse off then before. |
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ODA, thanks for a legit reply. As far as reason the be on the move, it'd have to be bad.
Power grid out for extended time, civil unrest, etc, not your typical storm. I plan to drive, small 4 door truck, which in normal times is 5-6 hours, and 1 tank of gas. In the event of xyz, who knows if its even doable, so who knows. So the idea here is I have a safe house or 2 along the route. Ideally position 1 would be a rest stop. Take safety, rest, eat, and get more supplies to replace any food or ammo I used. I figured the items I had listed would be most beneficial to help me get from point 1 to point 2, where there will be more food, water and emergency supplies. If you were bugging out, foot or vehicle, and had points in between you and your destination, what you want to have at those points ready for you? |
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Quoted:
Its a resupply point is all . Your looking too deeply into it. As far as why would I stash supplies when I have a vehicle? Your retarded. This board used to have intelligent people who could have a productive conversation, but I guess the shit from GD has impregnated here as well. Sad. If anybody wants to give legitimate ideas or criticism I'd love to hear it. Easy Pard..... I think you are yelling at people that are asking good questions and trying to help. You gave very vague parameters in your OP. I'm sorry but I think the answers you got were decent. I had the same questions about the validity of your cache locations as the others did. If you are bugging out, why in the hell would you intentionally go to a heavily populated area for any reason? Especially to pick up a few supplies. |
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Quoted: ODA, thanks for a legit reply. As far as reason the be on the move, it'd have to be bad. Power grid out for extended time, civil unrest, etc, not your typical storm. I plan to drive, small 4 door truck, which in normal times is 5-6 hours, and 1 tank of gas. In the event of xyz, who knows if its even doable, so who knows. So the idea here is I have a safe house or 2 along the route. Ideally position 1 would be a rest stop. Take safety, rest, eat, and get more supplies to replace any food or ammo I used. I figured the items I had listed would be most beneficial to help me get from point 1 to point 2, where there will be more food, water and emergency supplies. If you were bugging out, foot or vehicle, and had points in between you and your destination, what you want to have at those points ready for you? Your articulated situations argue against caching. Your best bet is to leave immediately and take the fastest route that is likely to have the least congestion. 1. Bug out IMMEDIATELY. Every days delay is another day where people get more desperate. 2. Plan a route that avoids major choke points (cities, interstates, etc.). 3. Plan alternate routes. 4. Plan rally points / remain overnight spots on your route (remote / uninhabited areas if available). Apartment complexes are not advisable (too many people). Places with limited egress / choke points (bridges) are likewise not advisable. 5. Since you can't afford a small self-storage unit, I wouldn't cache anything. Having 1 or 2 rest stop / safe houses / caches 1.5 or 2 hours into a 5-6 hour (300 miles?), 1 tank of gas bug-out route where you do anything more than pee is a waste of time. Time is not your friend, it is your enemy. If you stop two hours into your trip and rest up that's just increasing the odds that your route will become more impassible. If you've driven 2 hours past your "safe house" and can't continue are you going to drive 2 hours back? Lose 100+ miles? No. And you shouldn't walk back there to get supplies to replace the supplies you used getting there and then use up to get back to where you started (law of diminishing returns). No, you keep going forward. Carry a bail out bag with food, water shelter items and clothing in it in your vehicle. If you are within a reasonable distance of one of these "safe houses" when you can't keep driving, and if the situation is such that you can safely get there, you can make that decision then. And have extra fuel in your truck for alternate routes and buy fuel as practicable to keep a full tank (1/3 to 1/2 mark). If this other state you are traveling through requires licensing for firearms, I wouldn't place that high on my bail out list with the reasoning you've articulated and I'd never bug out THROUGH civil unrest. > If there is ANY level of routine law enforcement and you are walking along in a state that requires a license for a firearm with a firearm and you don't have that license / are not a resident of that state, then you have elevated your risk factor. > If there is ANY level of routine law enforcement and you use a fire in a state that requires a license for that firearm and you don't have that license / are not a resident of that state, then your next "safe house" is probably going to be a cell. > Obviously you want to not be dead and you have a right to self defense, but self -defense in the situations you've articulated is going probably going to be a game changer if there is any societal order left. What would I do based on what you've articulated? I'd have what I needed with me and have a contingency plan to leave the vehicle with enough water, food, shelter and warmth items to get me to my destination. My bail out bag would have: No canned food (too heavy). Minimal food (one MRE per day). For me, 3 MREs is 3 days chow. Water based on climate / geography (AZ is different than Minnesota). Water treatment / filtration. Cash. Layered seasonal "grey man" clothing (one set of spare skivvies and 4-6 airs of spare socks). Well broken-in and serviceable footwear (a pound on the foot is 5 on the back) if they weren't on my feet. Shelter (sleeping bag / bivy / tarp). I'd be prepared to ditch some shelter items / clothing for more food if the weather allowed. And I'd try to secure / hide my vehicle so I could recover the vehicle later. From some unforeseen earth-shattering event that would create conditions so bad that I'd bug out, there is probably at least 48-hours of stunned silence before people get desperate. That's when you move - while everyone is standing around shocked. For foreseen events (like a hurricane), you have to move before everyone else does. What was the hurricane that hit Galveston after Katrina hit New Orleans? The one where the interstates were clogged with people that ran out of gas? I watched a TV report where one family evacuated IMMEDIATELY and got to Houston with no issues (got a hotel room, etc.). Another had a pre-planned alternate route and sailed past the huge traffic jam on the interstate on side roads. |
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Quoted: I would feel much more comfortable finding a remote / semi-remote spot off a dirt road and burying the stuff myself. You have no idea what your friends situation is going to be when you get there. What I've learned is that it's very hard to do that without locals noticing. Ever notice how many bodies dumped / buried in "remote" areas turn up so quickly? Farmers / ranchers almost seem to be able to sense when someone's been screwing around on their land. People hunting / walking their dog / etc. notice and find stuff. And people decide to build / develop formerly empty land. A friend put a cache in on an area of Fort Bragg that he could access from his house prior to 9/11. An area untouched since pre-WWII. After 9/11? A big dang fence goes in between him and his cache. No sweat, he's got wire cutters. Then, the state started building the 295 loop. Is cache either got bulldozed into fill or has 6 lanes of concrete over it. Whoops! Butting in a cache with a local resistance element in occupied Slobovia is one thing. Deep in a national forest, maybe. Some farmer's wood lot? Only if he's in on it. |
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You didn't mention routes, but I'd suggest you stay on secondary and tertiary (e.g., local) roads. Then find a small self storage place a long the way and rent the smallest unit they have.
Your list assumes that you make it to your cache in your vehicle. If you don't, you will not want to load up canned foods. I'd go strictly w/ MREs or Mountain House and have enough to feed you and your family if you had to walk versus drive to your folks place. Also, add a water filter to each cache. Sawyers squeeze filter is only $30ish, is really light and has been extremely well rated. I'd have at least a 5 gallon can of gas in the cache as well. Shit happens and it's a cheap way to help ensure that you won't end up walking the remainder of the trip. I'd have a cheap headlamp stored as well. Swap the pocket knife for a good multi tool. |
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I would not be depending on someone else to keep stuff for me in case of some major SHTF event. It does not matter how much you trust them today. It is what happens when TSHTF that counts, and you just do not know what they will do, so depending on them is just a bad idea. But, if your situation is such that it is the best you can do, maybe it is not the worst option. The chances of ever needing your cache is very remote anyway.
The thing is that if you need it, you need it. You can't walk 100 miles to your cache and find it is not available to you. |
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Find a state park... bury stuff. a lot of state parks are pretty busy places, a lot busier than you might think. I do not want to count on having a couple hours to bury and hide a cache. even a single 5 gallon bucket will take a long while to dig a deep enough hole to bury it in. |
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Quoted: a lot of state parks are pretty busy places, a lot busier than you might think. I do not want to count on having a couple hours to bury and hide a cache. even a single 5 gallon bucket will take a long while to dig a deep enough hole to bury it in. Quoted: Quoted: Find a state park... bury stuff. a lot of state parks are pretty busy places, a lot busier than you might think. I do not want to count on having a couple hours to bury and hide a cache. even a single 5 gallon bucket will take a long while to dig a deep enough hole to bury it in. a lot doesnt mean all. And it doesnt have to be a state park. For instance, I travel quite a bit and on my travels i always find really neat and out of the way places (federal or state properties) that I could stand in the middle of buck ass naked for days on end and nobody would see me except for the lawn mowing crew. The last one I found was an out of the way Eastern Continental Divide Marker on Savage Mountain that was located in the middle of a somewhat maintained 1 or 2 acre feild at the end of a 2 mile dirt road. These are the kind of parks I am talking about. |
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I think it is quite possible that you could find a place where you could hide something.
Personally, if I were so inclined, I would would want to have more than one and have them at regular intervals if possible. Keeping a 5 gallon bucket of supplies at someone else's house or apartment is not such a bad idea if it is just one of a number of such small caches. There are a lot of practical issues though with a place that is remote enough that your stuff is relatively safe. And there is always the problem of being able to dig up something when the ground is frozen. Probably no perfect answer. |
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I'd definitely dump the ammo, or at least cut it in half. and maybe skip the first place - you want to be going IN to a city during a SHTF? A) you'll probably need that ammo, B) you have to sit in traffic on the way out ...
Add gas at the cache point, less ammo. I think you're ok on food and water. Think of it as an overnight location, and plan accordingly. After all, if your normal 2.5 hour drive takes 10 hours, your gas tank will be on empty, you'll be exhausted, needing a nap, etc. Consider small toiletry kit, a few rolls of TP, maybe a blanket and travel pillow. Heck, add some baby food and you'll really be in good with the new parents, especially if you do stay overnight and take a shift with the kid (new parents would absolutely LOVE an uninterrupted nap). |
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Quoted:
What I've learned is that it's very hard to do that without locals noticing. Ever notice how many bodies dumped / buried in "remote" areas turn up so quickly? Farmers / ranchers almost seem to be able to sense when someone's been screwing around on their land. People hunting / walking their dog / etc. notice and find stuff. And people decide to build / develop formerly empty land. A friend put a cache in on an area of Fort Bragg that he could access from his house prior to 9/11. An area untouched since pre-WWII. After 9/11? A big dang fence goes in between him and his cache. No sweat, he's got wire cutters. Then, the state started building the 295 loop. Is cache either got bulldozed into fill or has 6 lanes of concrete over it. Whoops! Butting in a cache with a local resistance element in occupied Slobovia is one thing. Deep in a national forest, maybe. Some farmer's wood lot? Only if he's in on it. Quoted:
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I would feel much more comfortable finding a remote / semi-remote spot off a dirt road and burying the stuff myself. You have no idea what your friends situation is going to be when you get there. What I've learned is that it's very hard to do that without locals noticing. Ever notice how many bodies dumped / buried in "remote" areas turn up so quickly? Farmers / ranchers almost seem to be able to sense when someone's been screwing around on their land. People hunting / walking their dog / etc. notice and find stuff. And people decide to build / develop formerly empty land. A friend put a cache in on an area of Fort Bragg that he could access from his house prior to 9/11. An area untouched since pre-WWII. After 9/11? A big dang fence goes in between him and his cache. No sweat, he's got wire cutters. Then, the state started building the 295 loop. Is cache either got bulldozed into fill or has 6 lanes of concrete over it. Whoops! Butting in a cache with a local resistance element in occupied Slobovia is one thing. Deep in a national forest, maybe. Some farmer's wood lot? Only if he's in on it. Totally understood! I would not cache anything, I'm in the camp of pack your own chute and have the flexibility to change your plan as things evolve. That being said - It all depends on your AO. Here in Western Nevada burying your stuff where the chances of detection are near zero would be stupid easy. The .gov owns 85% of Nevada and virtually all of Eastern Cali is federally owned. 100 yds off any dirt / logging / etc. road and you are golden..... |