[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 401k question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/28/2012 12:04:45 PM EDT
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First, I put this here because I think its survival *gear* related.
Ok, 18 months ago I got a new job. I moved my 401k (about $16k) from my old job to the company that does my wife's 401k (edward jones). I do not contribute to that savings plan anymore, I contribute to a Thrift Savings Plan, and I also save cash to have on hand (about $5000 in 18 months so far, and it isn't play money, its savings). Over the last 18 months its lost about 3000-3500, they also charge $45 per quarter to maintain it. I'm of the opinion that it will never grow and will slowly dwindle away to nothing because I don't contribute to it. So I'm thinking of with drawing that 401k (while still adding to my tsp and cash stash), taking the 40%-50% hit and buy things I could use/need now. Personally, I don't mind taking the hit as is not all "my" money, ie. i donated 6% and employeer matched 3%, so to me i would be losing all the "free" money and a little bit of mine. Oh, and I'm 31 with a 3yr old and a newborn and married (she is 26) *extend my food storage to 1-1.5yrs, about 3 months right now *quality water filters and extra filters *plates for interceptor body armor or upgrade armor and still get plates *finish 3 ar lowers that are sitting in my safe *ammo .223 and 9mm *the rest into my cash on hand fund *maybe take a rifle class, i was 0311 but that was 12 years ago, maybe make the wife come along too With the obamacare scotus approved, in a few years, I don't think that 401k's are going to be that safe when the dems realize we can't pay for that shit. And when Obama gets re-elected, i dunno i'm just paranoid and think to much, but anyways. So my thinking is I'd rather have some of it now, than none of it later.... Please note I still have a savings plan TSP and I save cash on hand. I just don't contribute to the 401k in question and am slowly watching it disappear. I'm financially stable and don't *need* it right now, just don't want to lose it all forever. So question is, would it be ok to pull it out and take the hit, or am I a dumbass for thinking about it? *edit to add a thing i would use it on maybe |
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I say do what you feel is best, some will say to leave it, some will say to cash it out. I lowered my 401k to 1% just to contribute SOMETHING, even though its not doing much. I feel I can do a better job with my cash than any market could (I just bought 1000rds of misc ammo).
If I could withdrawal right now and not lose 1/2 of it, I probably would, losing that 1/2 is what keeps it in there for 99.9% of the people out there, its by design. I think it suck, seeing that its MY money. |
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mac,
Not trying to be a smart elec, but right now, who knows. I am having similar thoughts but crap if I know what to do. Seems like the perfect storm to wipe out those who have been fiscally responsible in favor of those who have been dead beats. Personally I have no idea where to go now. Doc |
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Premature withdrawals (before age 59 1/2) from an IRA Rollover, the kind of account you move a 401k to, costs you a 10% penalty AND it's counted for income purposes so you pay taxes on it. The markets go up and down so your acct. value will vary. IF you've got appropriate asset allocation you can mitigate some of the volatility. My experience with Ed Jones shows there's also an account closing fee that they'll hit you with on the way out. Whether you want to take the hits or not is something you and your wife need to talk about. If it's just the account issues/value then find someone else to work with and move it there.
Since you're obviously working for the government (TSP is their equivalent of a 401k), are you planning to stay until retirment? How much are you contributing to the TSP and in which funds? Do you rebalance your own portfolio? Do you have FEGLI coverage? Those are some of the questions that I ask clients about their retirement planning. How you answer will depend a lot on how you view the future. There are many opinions and forecasts, but in the end no one really has a crystal ball. Each of us has to weigh the options and probabilities and act according to our situations. You can't make up for the time you've already had in the market though. Sorry I can't give specific advice. I don't know you and I'm not licensed in your state. |
| I would leave it. Your risk is only as large as what you've already contributed, but the opportunity cost of taking it out could have much larger implications. The reward for leaving it could be fairly large depending on how long until you retire. Given compound interest over time, it could grow into a pretty significant amount. For this type of long term growth, I would carefully select the appropriate fund. Something like an index fund with low maintenance fees. |
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First, I put this here because I think its survival *gear* related. Might want to ask here as well http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_1/133_Business_andamp__Investing.html |
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I wouldn't withdraw it, but I would *run* away from Edward Jones as fast as I could. They're known for steering clients into funds that have front-end loads and high expense ratios. They also get kickbacks from certain mutual fund companies for investing their clients' money in those funds. Talk about a conflict of interest.
Roll the money over to Vanguard and put it in one of their Total Retirement Funds. No loads, no quarterly fees, extremely low expense ratios, set it and forget it, etc. |
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You actually only "lose" 10% which is the penalty. The rest is taxes which would have been taken out of the money if you hadnt contributed to the 401K in the first place.
And technically if your account is down due to depreciation, if you sell it, you lock in those losses by converting them from unrealized to realized. Either way, do what you think is best. Me personally? It sounds like you have your money in some bad investments if you have lost that much. Find some new investments until it appreciates back up to its original value and then take it out if you still want to. |
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The problem isn't the account. Its your investments. You could hold your 401K rollover in Charles Schwab, Fidelity, T Rowe Price, or one of dozens of places. Once its there, you'll loos your ass if it is in shitty investments...
Take Charles Schwab. You can buy stocks, bonds, CD's, money market, whatever. If its available in the market place, you can likely get it there. Now, if you buy stock in something truly stupid like Kodak, and then you loose your shirt, is that a Schwab issue or a personal investment issue? I wouldn't take that cash out. $16,000 isnt a lot of money, but cashing out is going to cost you waaaaaaaaaaayyy more than the few thousand you lost. Transfer the 401k to somewhere else if you arent happy, stick it in a long term investment and expect it to go up and down. You will loose money. You will make money. Its all just theoretical until you actually buy or sell. I watched investments tank back in 1999/2000. I rode it out. And I watched some tank a few years ago. Again I rode it out. As a rule, if markets are ugly, dont look at your balances. Most people dont have a stomach for it. The only sure way to loose money is a 'secure' low yield investment. Oh sure , you feel good because your prinicpal never goes down. Insterad inflation eats it every year, and you happily watch your balance inch up while your actual purchasing power falls by yards. |
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18 months ago the S&P 500 was at 1257. Today it closed at 1329. While the market moved up 6%, your 401k lost 20%, if your numbers are accurate. What were you invested in? I'd say you made a bad choice investing in some particular fund or sector. Still no reason to think it going to trickle away.
I'd roll it into another comapny if Edward Jones is as bad as some posters claimed. If you want liquid cash, slow down your TSP contributions (just so long as you don't miss the match) and put the diference in a Roth IRA, from which the principal can be withdrawn. |
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for the TSP, instead of max contribution, do enough to get the match, and keep it in the G. invest the rest elsewhere This is generally bad advice. The G fund is safe, but is goign to likely have the worst return, and the OP is fairly young. Plus skipping the TSP (or 401(k)/Roth/IRA) you loose the tax savings. Plus if you are going to invest in an index fund, the low turnover and huge size of the TSP gives very low expenses. |
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for the TSP, instead of max contribution, do enough to get the match, and keep it in the G. invest the rest elsewhere This is generally bad advice. The G fund is safe, but is goign to likely have the worst return, and the OP is fairly young. Some saw the housing mess coming and moved everything into the G Sept 07 and didn't loose a penny. when investors were "paying" banks to park their money, the G was making 3% or so. 2010, funds diversified: some G, a little more C, but mostly into the S and I. (eta) MHO feels that it's time to go back in the G. yes, the G-Fund is slow, but will not decline or experience volitility - which IMO, are better than TIPS for this type of investing, and are backed by the United States Government 
Plus skipping the TSP (or 401(k)/Roth/IRA) you loose the tax savings. this is true Plus if you are going to invest in an index fund, the low turnover and huge size of the TSP gives very low expenses. and they limit the amounts of trades that participants can make (IIRC, 3 or 4/month) there are BIG problems on the horizon. Enron, Lehman Brothers, MF Global,... it's not over. PIIGS, EU,... we are all connected. if things hit the fan, it doesn't matter how old you are. YMMV (eta) the bailouts will keep us a happy for awhile, but eventually things will pop. *invest wisely |
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Ok, 18 months ago I got a new job. I moved my 401k (about $16k) from my old job to the company that does my wife's 401k (edward jones). you are leaving out some valuable info here. am i correct in assuming that you did a rollover from your prior employer's 401k into an IRA which is in a custodial account at Edward Jones? Quoted:
I do not contribute to that savings plan anymore, you can contribute to both a 401k and a traditional IRA, if you are so inclined. Quoted:
I contribute to a Thrift Savings Plan, *the* TSP, i.e. the one that is administered by the US Govt for federal employees? or something different? Quoted:
and I also save cash to have on hand (about $5000 in 18 months so far, and it isn't play money, its savings). good stuff. Quoted:
Over the last 18 months its lost about 3000-3500, your account lost money because of what your contributions are invested in. did you select your investments when you rolled over your 401k into the IRA? if not, how was your IRA money allocated across various investments? Quoted:
they also charge $45 per quarter to maintain it. the "big three" IRA custodians –– Fidelity, Vanguard, and T.Rowe Price –– all offer no-fee IRA accounts. you are paying $45 PER QUARTER? no fucking way, that is robbery. all three of the prior listed IRA custodians can, at your request, do a IRA-to-IRA "pull". example: open an IRA acct at Fidelity, and tell them you would like to pull in an existing account at Edward Jones. BAM! three days later all of your money is at Fidelity and there are no more fees. Quoted:
I'm of the opinion that it will never grow and will slowly dwindle away to nothing because I don't contribute to it. BS. i have a Roth IRA i have not been able to contribute to for 5 years. however, it is growing very nicely. selection of suitable investments (aka asset allocation) is the key, not whether you contribute to it. Quoted:
So I'm thinking of with drawing that 401k (while still adding to my tsp and cash stash), taking the 40%-50% hit and buy things I could use/need now. Personally, I don't mind taking the hit as is not all "my" money, ie. i donated 6% and employeer matched 3%, so to me i would be losing all the "free" money and a little bit of mine. that is a huge hit on money which would otherwise be protected from taxation for a long time. Quoted:
Oh, and I'm 31 with a 3yr old and a newborn and married (she is 26) which means time is on your side, and long term tax-advantaged compounding is the BEST CASE scenario from an investing perspective. Quoted:
*extend my food storage to 1-1.5yrs, about 3 months right now *quality water filters and extra filters *plates for interceptor body armor or upgrade armor and still get plates *finish 3 ar lowers that are sitting in my safe *ammo .223 and 9mm *the rest into my cash on hand fund *maybe take a rifle class, i was 0311 but that was 12 years ago, maybe make the wife come along too you are justifying these purchases based on an unsound long term economic approach –– namely, treating retirement assets as a near term bank account. Quoted:
With the obamacare scotus approved, in a few years, I don't think that 401k's are going to be that safe when the dems realize we can't pay for that shit. And when Obama gets re-elected, i dunno i'm just paranoid and think to much, but anyways. don't let current events cloud long term investment perspectives. someone, somewhere in 1962 was thinking "i should spend my last dollar on strippers and dope because the russians are going to launch nukes from cuba and it's gonna get mega hot here!" in the context of a far-away retirement, what is going on right now will be a spec in the rear view mirror. i started my professional career the week after the stock market suffered it's largest one day percentage loss, in October 1987. "Black Monday", as it came to be known, was what everyone talked about –– at the lunch table, at the water cooler, at softball games, and so on. if you were to listen to these conversations, you would have never, ever gone near the stock market. i started my 401k then. don't think short term –– it's very destructive to a long term investment portfolio. Quoted:
So my thinking is I'd rather have some of it now, than none of it later..... i don't understand the "none of it later" part. Quoted:
Please note I still have a savings plan TSP and I save cash on hand. an IRA is *far* more flexible in terms of investment breadth compared to ANY 401k or TSP. Quoted:
I just don't contribute to the 401k in question you no longer have a 401k –– you parted with the employer and rolled the account into an IRA, correct? Quoted:
and am slowly watching it disappear. that's right, you are "watching it". do something about it. you can open an no-fee IRA account with Fidelity, Vanguard, or T.Rowe Price online in 15 minutes flat, and then arrange for a "transfer in kind" of your IRA assets from Edward Jones to your new custodian. then, three days later, you can allocate your assets into investments that are both low cost and fit your timeframe/risk profile. Quoted:
I'm financially stable and don't *need* it right now, just don't want to lose it all forever. or, you can instead grow it for the next 30 years. Quoted:
So question is, would it be ok to pull it out and take the hit, or am I a dumbass for thinking about it? you asked...
ar-jedi |
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I think there are times when an early withdraw from a retirement account might make sense –– down payment on a home, job loss, major uncovered medical issue, etc. Buying ammo and body armor isn't one of them. You wont care about that shit in 30 years. You will be wishing that your $16K was properly invested for 30 years and worth $100K, if only you can keep your hands off of it for that long... my $.02, -Slice |
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I'm in the same boat pretty much. I thought I was being slick by having multiple accounts, with different degrees of risk, very low maintenence fees, with local, national, and international exposure.
They were ALL crushed. Even the ones that were basically, glorified savings accounts. It kills me to feel as though I have NO more confidence in the entire, (financial) growth system. I WON'T blame anyone, (the banks, politicians, etc etc) It is what it is. Because of my age, health, and rather, black-world-view, I will only "invest" in (pick a business, idea, whatever) that I can be personally involved in, and hopefully, have a direct impact on it's growth and survival. The silver lining of this cloud is that my teenage kids have watched this shit storm, very closely. I have little worry for them if I should leave this world any time soon. |
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Because of my age, health, and rather, black-world-view, I will only "invest" in (pick a business, idea, whatever) that I can be personally involved in, and hopefully, have a direct impact on it's growth and survival. The problam here is putting all you eggs in one basket. Kind of like keeping all our your savings in comapny stock, Unless you are Warren Buffent and have minimal involvement in each investment. |
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You actually only "lose" 10% which is the penalty. The rest is taxes which would have been taken out of the money if you hadnt contributed to the 401K in the first place. And technically if your account is down due to depreciation, if you sell it, you lock in those losses by converting them from unrealized to realized.Either way, do what you think is best. Me personally? It sounds like you have your money in some bad investments if you have lost that much. Find some new investments until it appreciates back up to its original value and then take it out if you still want to. Not really. Not on a tax defered account. |
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People need to realize that the stock market is edging closer by the day to simply being one giant scam. Volume is way off what it used to be and the majority of what is left is computers fighting each other.
If you think The Man will save you from getting ripped off, then go ask why Corzine isn't in jail right now. He oversaw the theft of billions; you think anyone cares about you? 401k's are simply not safe; the government cannot be trusted with your piggy bank. It's just a matter of time; they don't have the balls to fix the problems, so they'll steal everything that isn't bolted down. Everyone it's happened to has said "it can't happen here", and it happened to them anyways. If you already have a ton of money in the market or in accounts like this, well, sucks to be you. You need to think long and hard before taking any rash actions. Your age and how much money we're talking about will largely determine what you should end up doing. |
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Based on your post and what I have been reading, I have $0.02 to add (hopefully without much depreciation).
First, Roll-over that account to Vanguard. They have the best plans for us "little-people" and are easy to work with. They also have GREAT tools online for researching funds and stocks. There are some fees associated with the funds, just like everywhere else, and you can avoid many of them by doing things like electronic statements and maintaining a minimum balance. Second, When you do that roll-over make sure that it's invested in proven mutual funds or stocks that pay dividends. Have the dividends reinvested automatically and if there is a small maintenance fee your balance should at LEAST maintain on that alone. One thing that you haven't assessed in your post is the security that your wife feels by having a savings. I know that even though the tools of survival make me more comfortable, having cash to weather a rainy day makes my wife more comfortable. It doesn't matter how much food is in the pantry if she is worried about paying for something that "could" happen. Soooooooooo, the question to ask is: If your money was in a reputable mutual fund and AT LEAST maintaining its value, would you still want to cash it out? If the answer is no, then you should focus your efforts on transferring the money elsewhere. If you and your wife agree that you would cash that baby out either way, then do it with a clear conscience. Yes you will pay taxes, fees, and penalties, but it's your money and it's what you want to do. EDIT: By the way, we have been through economic times like this before. Go to the library and borrow some books on canning, energy, etc that were written in the 70's or around Jimmy Carter's term. The prefaces talk about the "end of the world," the pending energy crisis, world war, politicians, etc. The worries back then are the SAME as today. Everyone that lived through the 1920's had economic hardships, but weren't reliant on air conditioning, refridgeration, electricity, etc. By the 1970's almost everyone was reliant on that AND the government. Life will go on, the question is how. |
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401k's are simply not safe; the government cannot be trusted with your piggy bank. It's just a matter of time; they don't have the balls to fix the problems, so they'll steal everything that isn't bolted down. Everyone it's happened to has said "it can't happen here", and it happened to them anyways. You do understand what a 401(k) is right? The government doesn't have your money. I suspose they could steal it, but thats true with gold, ammo, or bills in your pocket. And I'm pretty sure the government has seized far more of that then 401(k)s. You needen't even invest in the US. I don't expect the man to protect me from getting ripped off. I do expect the government to try to prosecute those who commit criminal actions. But I'd never put all my eggs in one basket either. To the OP, someone abocve recomended Vanguard. I havre no opinion on them (never heard any complaints.). But T Rowe Price, TIA/CREF, and Fidelity seem to be fine also for the little guy also. I opened accounts in all 3 with a few thousand (in fact that was all I could legally do with an IRA) None had any accountmaintainance fee, I think fidelity or TRP can charge you for checkwriting on small accounts if you want checkwriting. All are far better deals than say any of the local banks. At times I've had a lot of money in a checking account and when they catch on, they want your investiment bussiness. Nothing the least bit attractive. I'ved never got a sales pitch from the mutural fund companies. |
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People need to realize that the stock market is edging closer by the day to simply being one giant scam. Volume is way off what it used to be and the majority of what is left is computers fighting each other. 1. there is more than one market. 2. you can make money in many ways. 3. if you spend as much time working on understanding the "system" and you do criticizing the "system", you can make money. Quoted:
If you think The Man will save you from getting ripped off, then go ask why Corzine isn't in jail right now. He oversaw the theft of billions; you think anyone cares about you? this is truth. note that MF Global did not deal directly with individual investors –– they were middlemen. Quoted:
401k's are simply not safe; the government cannot be trusted with your piggy bank. good grief. 401k money is held in a custodial account at a financial management company, and not by the government. Quoted:
It's just a matter of time; they don't have the balls to fix the problems, so they'll steal everything that isn't bolted down. you should understand that the gov't confiscating 401k's creates far more problems than it solves, and moreover provides no net economic benefit to the government. seizing 401k assets does not do what you think it does. in fact, it does the opposite. IRA's and 401k's are "containers" –– they are not investments. these tax-advantaged containers hold investments –– such as stocks, bonds, CDs, and so on. including government and municipal bonds. to an individual investor, the constituent investments make up a retirement portfolio. but in your mind the government "seizes" these assets, all of them. great ... now they, what, sell all the stocks and sell all the bonds to raise cash? to whom? at what market value? i could go on, but as you can see by extrapolation this scheme doesn't work. no matter how you figure it the IRA's and 401k's "in bulk" are worthless to anyone. they make up a good portion of the equity and credit markets. you can't buy the entire market much less sell the entire market. a stock price is the intersection of supply (sellers) and demand (buyers). so, let's say the gov't via confiscation, owns 80% of the outstanding shares of IBM. and they want to sell them all. work it out, and tell us what happens. see, that's the problem. they didn't confiscate 14 trillion dollars. they confiscated 14 trillion dollars worth of equities, bonds, CD's, cash, and misc. there is no way to dispose of it all towards economic gain. there are no net buyers. hence, the intrinsic value is low. moreover, were this broad market takeover by the federal government take place, foreign investment in the US would go to zero –– further depressing equity and bond prices. i guess i could summarize this situation as follows: you can't have a stock market nor a bond market where one party holds 80% of the outstanding issues. even if that party is "benevolent" there are no (or not enough) trading partners and the result is that there is no price floor. the moment the government seizes 14 trillion dollars worth of equities, bonds, CD's, cash, and misc, it's game over for EVERYONE –– the federal government included. the equity and bond instruments themselves are now worth next-to-nothing, the tax stream previously being made off of those privately held investments is now gone, and the primary credit market funding mechanisms for corporations and municipalities alike are now destroyed. you'll have to tell me now how this scenario somehow benefits the people who want to stay in power, or other people that want to be in power. Quoted:
Everyone it's happened to has said "it can't happen here", and it happened to them anyways. and to whom has this happened already? Quoted:
If you already have a ton of money in the market or in accounts like this, well, sucks to be you. yeah, i'm going to have to disagree with you on that. having a tax-advantaged account, for example a 401k, is part of a prudent long term investing approach. the intrinsic value of untaxed long duration compounding is unparalleled. n.b. interestingly, the people warning that "the gov't is coming for our 401k's/IRA's, so i cashed out my 401k/IRA" –– well, they become benefactors of the redistribution system then. that is, the confiscated 401k/IRA monies are given to those who didn't have 401k's/IRA's in the first place, right? ergo, these folks should just stop the complaining about it, let it happen, and wait for their redistribution handouts. i don't know why they are even worrying about it, as it benefits them. the only real downside to this "wait for it to happen" approach is that if it *doesn't* happen, you receive no redistribution handouts and you are on your own financially –– which you should have realized and planned for from the start. ar-jedi |
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remember buy bonds when the market is down switch to stocks durring good times. Go for plans that track the S&P 500 or the blue chip 100.
The key is making the switch right before the bad times go good and protecting your assets before good goes bad . Thats where the money is made. Face it unless your putting away the 401K max you are only going to retire with 130,000 and end up working as a walmat greeter. you have to work towards becoming a 1 million dollar 401K owner. To get there your account needs to be at 150K by age 40. Saving is not going to get you there. Compound intrest is your only hope. Im very curious what fees I'm paying. Might go the IRA track |
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remember buy bonds when the market is down switch to stocks durring good times. this is not completely correct, as the credit and equity markets are not always inversely correlated. it is possible to make money in either market in various market conditions, and in fact you can make money in both at the same time, and lose money in both at the same time. it is more accurate to advise to buy bonds during a falling interest rate environment, like we have had for the past few years. but in a rising interest rate environment there is no place to hide in the bond market, especially in long bonds. Quoted:
Go for plans that track the S&P 500 or the blue chip 100. again, this is not a full time investing maxim. for example, smaller companies provide higher returns during the early stages of an economic recovery. consult: http://www.callan.com/research/download/?file=periodic%2ffree%2f548.pdf note that in 2011, bonds led in total return and S&P500 were next. to return to some of my prior comments, as you can see it is possible for both the bond market and the broad equity market to both outperform. this is atypical, yes, but as you can see it does happen. work to understand sector rotation, and the fact that what is usually at the top of the pile for a year or two then ends up at the bottom of the pile for a year or two. Quoted:
The key is making the switch right before the bad times go good and protecting your assets before good goes bad . Thats where the money is made. market timing is extraordinarily difficult and one wrong step will wipe out years of successes. for this reason, asset allocation is a far better approach than attempting market timing. here is one of the best texts on the subject and it's a very good investing education for $14.63 including shipping! http://www.amazon.com/About-Asset-Allocation-Second-Edition/dp/0071700781 asset allocation sounds scary. it is not. it simply refers to the process of defining how your money is spread across different investment types. example 1: say you are 28 and have $10K in long term investment money. you might have an asset allocation strategy that looks like: $5K domestic mutual funds $2K international mutual funds $1K precious metals $2K cash-equivalent money market fund. example 2: say you are 48 and have $100K in long term investment money. you might have an asset allocation strategy that looks like: $30K domestic mutual funds $10K international mutual funds $10K precious metals $30K bond funds $20K cash-equivalent money market fund. asset allocation is influenced by your age (more specifically, how long to retirement), your risk tolerance, your expectations of future earnings (job stability and salary), and so on. working through all of these factors is covered very nicely in the text i referenced. the idea of asset allocation is BALANCE. you want some of your investments to zig when others zag. if they are all going in the same direction i can guarantee it will not end well. just ask anyone who was invested in dot com technology stocks in 1999/2000. Quoted:
Face it unless your putting away the 401K max you are only going to retire with 130,000 and end up working as a walmat greeter. how do you figure this? Quoted:
you have to work towards becoming a 1 million dollar 401K owner. To get there your account needs to be at 150K by age 40. Saving is not going to get you there. a 401k is one type of tax-advantaged retirement account. others include IRA's (Trad and Roth), TSP, 403b, etc., and in some cases folks may have more than one type of account (for example, a 401k from a prior employer rolled over into an IRA). Quoted:
Compound intrest is your only hope. you mean compounded tax-advantaged returns. Quoted:
Im very curious what fees I'm paying. Might go the IRA track take your current 401k portfolio holdings, plug them into Morningstar InstantXray, and hit go. http://portfolio.morningstar.com/NewPort/Free/InstantXRayDEntry.aspx?tsection=toolsxray&dt=0.7055475 here is an example... http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=133&t=586834 from that thread: 
remember though: KISS. investing is like robbing a bank: keep the plan simple, don't make any sudden movements, don't listen to the noises outside, and most importantly, LEAVE WITH THE MONEY.
here is another "how to interpret M* instantXray results thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=133&t=1122005 and here is another yet again: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=133&t=747913 Quoted:
Might go the IRA track it is highly likely that your employer's 401k plan does not allow you to do an "in-service" IRA rollover. you have to terminate employment in order to do an IRA rollover. that said... while the 401k situation years ago was poor, today more and more 401k plans are getting "good" options –– that is, low ER index funds and low cost managed funds. moreover, more and more 401k plans have a brokerage link option, wherein you can trade any security you want within your tax-advantaged 401k plan. my plan has this feature, and i use it to purchase ETF's inside of my 401k. approximately 30% of my 401k money is invested via a brokerage link account. i implore folks that are in a good job but "stuck" with poor 401k choices (read: expensive funds and/or too few fund options) to talk with their management and HR folks. a good 401k program benefits EVERYONE at the company, and a poor 401k program hurts EVERYONE –– including the higher paid execs. this should be your selling point for change: the execs will benefit with everyone else. if you really want to see a truly fucked up situation, look no further than the 403b program at your local school. it is obscene what the NEA and state level unions foist on teachers and school administrators. in the school where my wife works, i'd estimate that upwards of 80% (see footnote) of the teachers/admins got roped into expensive annuities *within* their 403b's. that's right, a tax-advantaged vehicle inside a tax-advantaged account. how did that happen? the union reps allow commission-based salespeople to give lunchtime talks to unsuspecting teachers. or worse, they take kickbacks to allow the same. the net result is that the teachers end up paying exceptionally high ER's and loads –– i kid you not, i have seen ER's as high as 2.75% and loads up to 6.75%. do the math there and see if you can figure our ANY WAY that the teacher is going to stay ahead in an average market year and with average inflation. if you or someone you know has an active 403b plan, PLEASE read EVERYTHING on the following website: http://www.403bwise.com/ furthermore, advise them to act with extreme caution on the advice of on-site "advisors" or "financial planners" –– that is their Lexus out in the parking lot they are paying for. ar-jedi from http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=133&t=1122005 (note date of thread, Jan 2011)... since an example is worth a thousand words, here is my wife's 403b run through Morningstar Instant Xray (this is actually a feature integrated into the T.Rowe Price account management web interface; you don't have to type anything in –– just click a link and the Instant Xray is done for you using your account holdings. i love it! i wish Fidelity would do the same thing so i don't have to cut-n-paste my 401k and brokerage account holdings into the Morningstar web site.) note the style box allocation spread; compare to the one i ran for you previously. 
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*extend my food storage to 1-1.5yrs, about 3 months right now *quality water filters and extra filters *plates for interceptor body armor or upgrade armor and still get plates *finish 3 ar lowers that are sitting in my safe *ammo .223 and 9mm *the rest into my cash on hand fund *maybe take a rifle class, i was 0311 but that was 12 years ago, maybe make the wife come along too But gold coins No seriously if you extend your food preps you may alienate the wife, also 1 1.5 years is a lot of food. If you need that much food it is for TEOWAWKI, in which case you'll probably need to move, so if you have a back up location and you have the ability ot move the food, then yes. Understand that much food simply sits in your basement and provides piece of mind, in 10 years or so it will go bad, not really an investment. Water filters, go move, but it doesn't take that much money, just buy a couple and learn how to make more clean water if needed. plates, again not all that cheap, or practical. Go to a gun show around a mil base and buy a set off one of the unemployed contractors, or better yet put out an add around a mil base and you'll get them cheap. ditto 9mm and 5.56 finish 3 lowers? Just finish one or two if you already have an M4 why would you need 4 of them? cache? Keep cash on hand? Yes always a good idea to keep a grand or two in a safe place. spend 1K on preps, 2K in cash cache and invest the rest in something else the wife can't take in event of a divorce. |
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401k's are simply not safe; the government cannot be trusted with your piggy bank. Posted by-ar-jedi"good grief. 401k money is held in a custodial account at a financial management company, and not by the government. " They won’t outright seize these accounts; they know people won’t tolerate that, it would almost instantly collapse what‘s left of the stock market. What they will do is slowly add penalties and taxes so high, it will make it nearly impossible to access your cash. Or, the tax rates will be so outrageous, when you cash out they will get most of it anyways. Instead of a 10% early withdraw penalty we currently have, it will be something like 50% or even more. How about a forced out provision that makes you cash out all of it at 59 or 65 with progressive tax scales up to 90% for accounts over 1 million dollars, who needs that kind of money anyways? This is the kind of sick crap these control freaks on the left (and some on the right) think about, these folks are not wired like most of us. Some of you will laugh about this idea and use tinfoil references to make yourself feel at ease, but various agencies and even sitting representatives have openly talked about plans to get access to your 401k and retirement money during the 2008/2009 stock market collapse. They are just waiting for another crisis they can’t let go to waste before implementing it. We are only one event away from this coming to fruition; it might be a economic or terrorist event, but they will milk it for all it’s worth to push new laws to not only get access to this money one way or another, but to put even more restrictions on our freedoms. Don’t believe this can happen here, well, consider this? If I told you ten years ago we would have government employees (TSA) at every airport (and soon to be on trains, ships and highway check points) using naked scanning machines and physically molesting women, children and even the disabled elderly by feeling their private areas, you would call me a crazy tinfoil nut job, that could never happen in the good ole US of A. Here’s another example, who in their right mind would have thought a so called “conservative” SCOTUS judge would rule in favor of what is essentially is a forced national health care system. For Gods sakes, just the other year we came within one vote of losing our constitutionally granted firearms right; see where I’m going with all of this? I often hear people try to compare what is going on today with what unfolded during the Jimmy Carter years. Yes, it’s true a lot of folks were doom and gloom then, but there are major differences to what is happening today. First, I’m no Jimmy Carter fan, but he was an American, he made some really bad decisions, but I don’t think in his heart he was trying to deliberately hurt the country like many we have in power today. We still had a huge industrial/manufacturing base during that time and the dollar was still strong. We didn’t have the degree of major issues like we have today with wide open borders and 20 to 30 million illegal aliens here starting balkanize, 16 trillion in debt and endless spending. We also didn’t have anywhere near the penalties, laws and fines on business like we do today. The EPA was in it infancy and several of the federal agencies we have today did not even exist or were just diminutive in size back them. In a nutshell, America was much more business friendly in the late 1970’s compared to today, and with a few exceptions, we also had much more freedom then we do today. For most of us, the America we grew up with is long gone, the stability we had in the past is just that, in the past. I believe it’s Mark Levin that came up with the term “post-constitutional” to describe the era we are currently experiencing. Sadly, I think that is a very accurate description of 2012 America. I’m staying positive and hoping for the best, but at the same time, I’m doing what I can for my friends and family by planning for the worst. At this point in time, no idea, law, scheme or tax coming from the folks in Washington DC, no matter how outrageous or un-constitutional, should shock you anymore. If you think it can’t happen here you have your head in the sand…… |
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How do you roll an employer sponsored 401K???? generally, when you terminate employment. at that time, you have three options: 1) remain in the employers plan as a non-contributing account holder. 2) roll your 401k into an IRA via a custodial account at a firm such as Vanguard, Fidelity, or T.RowePrice. 2) take an early distribution of your 401k money. note that this has horrendous tax implications –– you may not like that, but the IRS will. ar-jedi |
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That's my point... from page 1: Quoted:
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Ok, 18 months ago I got a new job. I moved my 401k (about $16k) from my old job to the company that does my wife's 401k (edward jones). you are leaving out some valuable info here. am i correct in assuming that you did a rollover from your prior employer's 401k into an IRA which is in a custodial account at Edward Jones? ... we have not heard from the OP since the OP –– hence the continued open question of exactly what he did. 
ar-jedi |
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In the scope of the big picture, $16K isn't a lot of money, especially if you already have $5k in emergency funds and are also contributing to savings/retirement. I was in a similar position a few years ago and opened a self direct IRA in an Etrade account. The maintenance fee is less than Eddy J's and I am able to buy specific stocks, bypassing funds with additonal fees.
I'm a big believer that energy, in the long term, will only go up. There are plenty of oil stocks out there that provide 3.5% to 7% dividends and go up in price when the price of oil increases. If you're looking at a 10+ year horizon before retiring, ease into some of these oil stocks and let it go. Leave diversification up to your other retirement account. I spoke with a contact a few weeks ago who works for one of the largest oil producers in the world. He said their long term (strategic) plans expect oil to be $100 to $200 a barrel (currently low $80s). Specifically, I like KMP, LINE, PAA (pipeline), and PPL (electricity). In a deflationary environment, energy prices will decrease but only to the point that it doesn't exceed the cost of retrieving th energy. Just some ideas. |
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I wasn't the OP, but yall motivated me to roll over a couple of old work accounts into a new IRA with one of AR-Jedi's three best choices. I had been meaning to do something, because I hadn't really been paying enough attention to them. I also hadn't been contributing to any of my plans...because I had changed jobs and couldn't any longer.
It sure was weird to look in the the biggest account yesterday and see it was empty ($0 balance) and the new IRA also has a $0 balance while the check is (hopefully) enroute  . The process was painless, though. I signed up online and then called the new company and let them walk me through the rollover to avoid mistakes/delays. Heck they conferenced me in with the old companies and we had the 401k done in 15 minutes over the phone. The IRA required some paperwork, but the told us exactly what we needed and my rep practically filled it out for me.
I'm back on track now, so thanks guys. 
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I wasn't the OP, but yall motivated me to roll over a couple of old work accounts into a new IRA with one of AR-Jedi's three best choices. I had been meaning to do something, because I hadn't really been paying enough attention to them. I also hadn't been contributing to any of my plans...because I had changed jobs and couldn't any longer. It sure was weird to look in the the biggest account yesterday and see it was empty ($0 balance) and the new IRA also has a $0 balance while the check is (hopefully) enroute . The process was painless, though. I signed up online and then called the new company and let them walk me through the rollover to avoid mistakes/delays. Heck they conferenced me in with the old companies and we had the 401k done in 15 minutes over the phone. The IRA required some paperwork, but the told us exactly what we needed and my rep practically filled it out for me.
I'm back on track now, so thanks guys. so much win in one post, it may crash ARFCOM.
ar-jedi |
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comes down to 401k 's were created only for rich people. If you don't make $65,000 dollars or more and put 15,000 of the 40,000 dollars you make a year away. You will be living in the poor house you will only have 25,000 dollar of income. and you can only live in a one bedroom apartment with the $650 dollars of rent you can afford every month.
meanwhile your fund manager and CEO you work for will be living the life you have given away and be drinking martini's on st.barts. Its wrong and is going to bankrupt america. |
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comes down to 401k 's were created only for rich people. If you don't make $65,000 dollars or more and put 15,000 of the 40,000 dollars you make a year away. You will be living in the poor house you will only have 25,000 dollar of income. and you can only live in a one bedroom apartment with the $650 dollars of rent you can afford every month. meanwhile your fund manager and CEO you work for will be living the life you have given away and be drinking martini's on st.barts. Its wrong and is going to bankrupt america. Actually, if you aren't saving for your own future, you are the one bankrupting us. Somehow, you have decided that your financial future is not in your hands, and only the fat cats can get rich. 401Ks let the little guy get ahead by saving and investing. And in your alternative world, you think that someone else should be providing for your future. Good luck with that. |
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comes down to 401k 's were created only for rich people. If you don't make $65,000 dollars or more and put 15,000 of the 40,000 dollars you make a year away. You will be living in the poor house you will only have 25,000 dollar of income. and you can only live in a one bedroom apartment with the $650 dollars of rent you can afford every month. meanwhile your fund manager and CEO you work for will be living the life you have given away and be drinking martini's on st.barts. Its wrong and is going to bankrupt america. I'm not sure how you intended your post to come across, but it is almost identical to the occupy wall street, expect a hand out, punish those that are successful at life, party lines. Additionally, are you really complaining that those holding a higher position that you or those with the skill and cash available to manage a fund get paid more? Really? You are incorrect regarding what will bankrupt the country. It is not the successful businessman, it is the one that expects that successful businessman to give away his hard earned money for those that don't have the wherewithal to make and save their own. Times are tough, I come from a blue collar family, and am myself an enlisted slob in the Army. You have to keep pushing forward to better yourself financially, class envy isn't going to cut it. You do not have to save X amount out of X amount, but do have to save something for YOUR future. |
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comes down to 401k 's were created only for rich people. If you don't make $65,000 dollars or more and put 15,000 of the 40,000 dollars you make a year away. You will be living in the poor house you will only have 25,000 dollar of income. and you can only live in a one bedroom apartment with the $650 dollars of rent you can afford every month. meanwhile your fund manager and CEO you work for will be living the life you have given away and be drinking martini's on st.barts. Its wrong and is going to bankrupt america. You could not be more wrong. 401K's are for the small investor without the means to invest in individual stocks and bonds. It's obvious you are just trolling this thread. |