Posted: 9/4/2011 5:42:45 PM EDT
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and I have a dumb question......
I bought an old votive style candle at a garage sale today. I am burning it in a shot glass sized holder next to a target bought tea candle and a walmart brand votive, which is much smaller, all in the same type of holder. The old votive burns extremely smooth. The tea candle and cheap pressed votive flicker constantly. The flames never rest. Why is that? I am guessing that it's because the cheaper candles have smaller wicks. I have weighed all three candles and am going to burn them until they fail and then weigh the remains to see which one is the most efficient. Both in terms of burn time and fuel consumption. What type of stores would have votive style candles of good quality? The reason I ask is that when I burn them inside these shot glass sized containers, they keep the heat in so the entire candle burns all the way down to the bottom of the glass. It is very, very efficient. Big tower candles loose a huge amount of wax as they burn. Cheap stick candles do the same. With these little glass containers, even the cheap candles burn till there is almost nothing left at all. Right now, I think the votive candles in these small containers are the way to go. efficient with great light output. Not so great with the cheap votives..... 
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I will mention that after 4 hours the tea candle from target is barely putting out any light. Pretty pathetic. The flame is 1/4" tall and that is being generous. It looks like it has 30% or more of it's wax left. The metal wick insert cuts off the fuel supply way too early.
ETA: The tea candle is putting out 1/10 the light of the other two votive candles.......the walmart versions are only marginally better. |
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I've decided to go liquid parrafin (restaurant style) on all of my candles. I've bought a shitload of these, should give me many many nights of candlelight. They don't burn super bright (definitely serviceable, though) but they are smokeless and odorless and very, very efficient.
Also, check this out, some stuff of interest there. ETA a pic: 
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| If you guys are going to have candles for SHtF-scenario, I would get the bee wax kind. They cost about double over the paraffin kind, but bee's wax gives off a lot less smoke, and they have a pleasant fragrance. I have a bunch of them as back-up in case my LED lanterns run out of battery power. |
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I have some preliminary numbers, but one of the candles had a malfunction....The walmart votive had a sticker on the bottom that was curled up some. It lifted the wick holder up so it didn't use up all the available fuel. A good percentage of the wax was wasted.
The target tea candle used up all but .05% of the available wax. 2.044 grams of wax per hour. The flame was pitiful and it ran a little over 5 hours. A better tea candle that has a bigger wick would be great. It would have a shorter run time, but have much better usable light. I am running a walmart candle now. I won't be here to see the run time, but I did that in a thread a long time ago that could be looked up in the archive. This thread is about efficiency. The walmart candle has a flame that is the same as the walmart votive, so it's much, much better for light. I am guessing run time shows it, but I won't see that until next weekend, or someone can dig up my old thread. The older style votive weighed 50.81 grams. I was not awake when it burned out, but the container was warm when I woke up and checked it at 4am. It used all but a tiny residue on the inside of the glass. Very, very efficient. 10 hours run time gives us 5.081 grams per hour. This is not terribly efficient compared to the tea candle, but it was giving off many, many times more light than the tea candle. 60% faster fuel consumption yielded at least 5 times more light. Maybe more. When you add 5 tea lights to get the same amount of light then the old votive makes sense efficiency wise. I am freezing the walmart votive to get the remains out of the glass. It burned much slower than the old votive, but it also wasted a lot. Not nearly as bright a flame. probably about half the brightness of the older candle. Still very useful as a light source so I would not tell anyone not to buy these. Just remove the damn sticker. I just lit another one and I hope this one burns way more efficient. I will had the weight of the remains in a little while. ETA: The walmart candle wasted 12% of the wax due to the lifting of the sticker.....approximately 2.8 grams per hour of wax. With the half light output the efficiency seems to be very on par with the older votive candle. I am actually impressed that it did as well as it did. I am not sure of the exact run time last night, but if it had used up all the wax it would have run as long or longer than the bigger candle. I can do run times next weekend since I won't be home today. |
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Lucky for me candles will never have to be a thought. My lady is obsessed with Yankee Candle, we've got dozens of the large and small mason jars around the house. Nice thing about them is they have approx burn times on the bottom. She's prepping and doesn't even know it haha! If the SHTF not only will my house be lit up, but its gonna smell GREAT!!
Small Jars - 25-40 hours Large Jars - 110-150 hours Non-Jarred Tea Light Style - 15 hours They are of very nice quality (coming from a non candle maker so what do I really know) but do get expensive. If you can get out to their stores they usually have some good deals on the large and small jars (Buy1 get 1 etc) They also make old school bees wax candles, but I don't have any here. Yankee Candle Store Locator |
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Several biggest things I've learned over the years on candles are these : (yeah, they fall into the sally safety region)
1) making sure the candle is in a heat resistant container. I had put a votive candle into a jam jar and the thing cracked leaking wax all over the table. 2) candle/container is set onto a burn/melt resistant top - now I use cheap ceramic tiles to set them on (after I scorched a couple cabinet tops and melted a spot into the top of a TV... 
3) protecting the burning wick from drafts make the candles burn more evenly - think of a mantle like on deitz lanterns or candle sconces. 4) Putting a mirror or reflective surface behind the candle or even a half moon shaped polished item behind it directs/increases the light in rooms. Just some tips I've found that have worked for me over the years, I now use LED lights - mostly the solar yard lights and spotlights. |
| Anyone else use candle lanterns? I have two old lanterns from Thailand I got as a gift years ago. They have a mirror on one side and the other 3 sides of the box are glass. They were designed to be used as porch lights and work very well outdoors. They also have bail handles for hanging. My other candle lanterns are from my sailboat and are gimbal mounted and well built of stainless and glass, with a adjustable stainless reflector. If I need candles I use votives that my wife picked up at a closeout from Macy's when visiting Atlanta. They do burn much brighter than Walmart chinese candles. |
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I have a coleman tea lantern and oodles of IKEA tea lights that burn fine with dinner.
(Oodles more than cubic butt ton but but is less than metric butt ton, I probably have between 500 and 1000) They are so cheap that I can easily burn multiples. Love the plumber candles too. EAT: IKEA has plenty of tea ligh holders that will reflect the light too |
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Quoted:
Anyone else use candle lanterns? I have two old lanterns from Thailand I got as a gift years ago. They have a mirror on one side and the other 3 sides of the box are glass. They were designed to be used as porch lights and work very well outdoors. They also have bail handles for hanging. My other candle lanterns are from my sailboat and are gimbal mounted and well built of stainless and glass, with a adjustable stainless reflector. If I need candles I use votives that my wife picked up at a closeout from Macy's when visiting Atlanta. They do burn much brighter than Walmart chinese candles. These are awesome and can be used to make hot choco. 
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Quoted:
Lucky for me candles will never have to be a thought. My lady is obsessed with Yankee Candle, we've got dozens of the large and small mason jars around the house. Nice thing about them is they have approx burn times on the bottom. She's prepping and doesn't even know it haha! If the SHTF not only will my house be lit up, but its gonna smell GREAT!! Small Jars - 25-40 hours Large Jars - 110-150 hours Non-Jarred Tea Light Style - 15 hours They are of very nice quality (coming from a non candle maker so what do I really know) but do get expensive. If you can get out to their stores they usually have some good deals on the large and small jars (Buy1 get 1 etc) They also make old school bees wax candles, but I don't have any here. Yankee Candle Store Locator Get the jar top lids so that they burn down evenly. |
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A female friend of mine just introduced me to a craft store called Pat Catan's. They have tons of candle making stuff and a great selection of candles. I was very impressed.
I bought 30 votive style 12 hour candles for $10. They are their Dynamic Collections brand, which means they are generic. They are just like the walmart versions, but twice as tall and don't appear to be just pressed together. Nice thick wicks. I am burning one right now (start at 4pm). It should be still going when I wake up at 4am to go to the airport. She also told me about a brand called "Root" candles. I bought a couple votive sized smelly candles that were on sale for $1 to try. They are top notch with nice wicks and they are full sized votive like the old ones I burned. The two new candles have smooth as glass flames and the others are flickering away. It may just be that they are further down into the glass containers. The air flowing in to replace the heated air could be causing more of the flickering than anything. Tight sided containers seemed like a good idea for efficiency, but it may not be a good idea for smooth flames. I will know more after a few more hours. |
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I have found the same thing thing with a lot of candles, but, my opinon is this: The ones that don't put off much light, are not the best to try and read with, but, the put out enough light to keep me from tripping over crap with the my wife and daughter leave lying all over the place. |
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Quoted:
Want me to send you one of my beeswax votives? I think I used too small of wicks, so not sure how they'll do. It would be nice to compare them. I don't have scientific testing methods other than run time and how much of the fuel is used up. I am more concerned with the stability of the flame and efficiency. I may have to learn to make candles just so I can customize them and get better results. Pat Catan's had lots of candle making stuff. |
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A.I. Root has been in the candle business,in Medina Ohio since the 1800's and makes nothing but top notch products.
I have no research such as yours to back up my claim,but I believe you'll find it is true. I'm sure you can find out more about Root Candles online w/a simple search. Good thread! |
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Quoted:
Lucky for me candles will never have to be a thought. My lady is obsessed with Yankee Candle, we've got dozens of the large and small mason jars around the house. Nice thing about them is they have approx burn times on the bottom. She's prepping and doesn't even know it haha! If the SHTF not only will my house be lit up, but its gonna smell GREAT!! Small Jars - 25-40 hours Large Jars - 110-150 hours Non-Jarred Tea Light Style - 15 hours They are of very nice quality (coming from a non candle maker so what do I really know) but do get expensive. If you can get out to their stores they usually have some good deals on the large and small jars (Buy1 get 1 etc) They also make old school bees wax candles, but I don't have any here. Yankee Candle Store Locator Just my 2 cents.... but make sure you have a bunch of un-scented ones....after a few hours, those scented ones can get very overwhelming. ( They actually burn my eyes ) |
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A.I. Root has been in the candle business,in Medina Ohio since the 1800's and makes nothing but top notch products. I have no research such as yours to back up my claim,but I believe you'll find it is true. I'm sure you can find out more about Root Candles online w/a simple search. Good thread! My friend told me they have a store in the Grove City outlets south of Cleveland. I am going to take a drive down there with her in the very near future and buy a bunch to play with. maybe even some smelly ones. The smelly one I have burning now (on sale for $1) is not overwhelming at all. |
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I learned something new.
It seems every candle I put in these little shot glass sized holders flicker when they get down below the surface enough. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. The candle puts out heat. The hot air rises. The air coming in to replace it causes the flame to blow around. Even with the flame moving the candles put out great navigational light. Still very useful, but an interesting observation none the less. The glass containers that make them super efficient also make them flicker and move.......trade offs. Oil lamps are for reading...... |
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I found a new votive holder that gives a stable flame longer and is narrow enough at the bottom to help use up all the wax. It is sold at Walmart and craft stores and it resembles a plant pot. The wide top allows more air in a wider area so the flickering is reduced for a long time.
The globe shape in the picture above didn't work well because the leaked wax was too far from the flame to melt to feed the wick. 8 hrs out of a medium sized votive is pretty decent. In the new container the pat catan votive used up all but 10% of its wax with a much better quality flame. |
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It bears mentioning, candles to avoid - We had a couple blister packs of Coghlans brand candles, I believe they were white wax. Those turkeys wouldn't sustain a flame. They burn for a few minutes then drown in their own wax pool. I set one up next to an Ace plumbers candle, and the plumbers candle was much brighter. It looked like the wick in the Coghlans was too small. I got some wicks and planned to melt the old candles and cast new ones, but at .99 a piece for the plumber candles it really wasn't worth the time. |
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If you're buying Yankee candles you're wasting your money. You're paying for a brand, oil and wax that melts and exudes scent. Get the tall religious candles(the ones with Catholic/Spanish saint pictures on them). They'll burn for seven days straight for a dollar or two. If you need to, the labels will peel or wash off and they'll throw more light. Obviously put them on top/in front of a mirror for even more light. My wife and I went out before Irene hit Long Island NY to one of the local supermarkets for some last minute stuff and just to see what got bought. The store was stripped of candles, even the birthday candles. But lo and behold just past the end cap in the international foods it was full of the religious candles and Yartzeit(Jewish Mourning candles). The Yartzeit candles with burn for 24 hours. No candle was more than a buck or two. We lost power for almost three days and it cost us pennies to light the house. Also, I dragged my solar yard lights in for the evening after they spent the day charging and lit up rooms as well. |
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Quoted:
If you're buying Yankee candles you're wasting your money. You're paying for a brand, oil and wax that melts and exudes scent. Get the tall religious candles(the ones with Catholic/Spanish saint pictures on them). They'll burn for seven days straight for a dollar or two. If you need to, the labels will peel or wash off and they'll throw more light. Obviously put them on top/in front of a mirror for even more light. My wife and I went out before Irene hit Long Island NY to one of the local supermarkets for some last minute stuff and just to see what got bought. The store was stripped of candles, even the birthday candles. But lo and behold just past the end cap in the international foods it was full of the religious candles and Yartzeit(Jewish Mourning candles). The Yartzeit candles with burn for 24 hours. No candle was more than a buck or two. We lost power for almost three days and it cost us pennies to light the house. Also, I dragged my solar yard lights in for the evening after they spent the day charging and lit up rooms as well. all of the Catholic candles I have seen have very thin wicks. I bought a few and they did not burn well, but I keep looking at them to see if the quality varies. I will look for the Jewish candles. |
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Quoted: Make a flow "director" ie the metal "lid" that sits on yankee candles. Hole in the middle for flame, small holes along the perimeter. It allows the air to become more stable when its directed (ie a jet engine).I learned something new. It seems every candle I put in these little shot glass sized holders flicker when they get down below the surface enough. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. The candle puts out heat. The hot air rises. The air coming in to replace it causes the flame to blow around. Even with the flame moving the candles put out great navigational light. Still very useful, but an interesting observation none the less. The glass containers that make them super efficient also make them flicker and move.......trade offs. Oil lamps are for reading...... I thought they were ripoffs until I saw one work. It makes the flame stable and cuts down on soot by evening out the flame. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Make a flow "director" ie the metal "lid" that sits on yankee candles. Hole in the middle for flame, small holes along the perimeter. It allows the air to become more stable when its directed (ie a jet engine).
I learned something new. It seems every candle I put in these little shot glass sized holders flicker when they get down below the surface enough. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. The candle puts out heat. The hot air rises. The air coming in to replace it causes the flame to blow around. Even with the flame moving the candles put out great navigational light. Still very useful, but an interesting observation none the less. The glass containers that make them super efficient also make them flicker and move.......trade offs. Oil lamps are for reading...... I thought they were ripoffs until I saw one work. It makes the flame stable and cuts down on soot by evening out the flame. interesting idea. thank you. I have the facilities to do that.....I will have to find a picture. |
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I learned something new. It seems every candle I put in these little shot glass sized holders flicker when they get down below the surface enough. I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. The candle puts out heat. The hot air rises. The air coming in to replace it causes the flame to blow around. Even with the flame moving the candles put out great navigational light. Still very useful, but an interesting observation none the less. The glass containers that make them super efficient also make them flicker and move.......trade offs. Oil lamps are for reading...... yep, think of the air and exhaust as fluids (because they act the same). What's going on is similar to what happens when you plunge a bottle under the surface of the water. A bottle will glug as the small cross section will not allow it to flow both ways at once. Plunge a bowl below the surface of the water and it will go smoothly as the inflow will drop over the wide rim and air will exhaust smoothly out the center. A sealed bottom glass smallish votive holder will likely "glug". I believe the height and the " wide hips" on the oil lamp and candle lamp chimneys prevent the flicker for the most part. Very similar concepts with nuke power cooling towers although they I believe exhaust only and thus have a "hip" in design to add speed to the exhaust process. Venturi effect IIRC. I know enough about fluid mechanics to be dangerous but that's what I think. |
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garage sales or word of mouth is where my candles come from. A lot of them are used or broken. Wax is easy to melt back down and you can make your own candles. I generally just use the wicks that come from melting candles but I have come close to buying a spool of wick material, if it comes in spools, just because I know the 100% cotton twine wick will work but not all that well sometimes. I wish I had more of the sterno emergency candles but about the time I got around to buying them they got phased out at wally world and I have not bothered to check the net for them. This is one candle I would buy new and pay full price on. I probably have a box about the size of a case of oranges full of broken candles in my storage shed. I left a similar sized box at a friend's hunting cabin. I left a similar sized box at my sisters, she may do artsy fartsy stuff with them or they may get used when the power is out. I have not really been looking for any candles lately but it is about time probably since candles are one thing that can store in many places and not be hurt by heat or cold. I guess in some areas the candles with really low melting temps might melt but they can be reformed so I don't consider it a loss and I don't have an attic or anything that acts as a solar oven where I store stuff. I personally don't have many of the tiny tea candles. I see a candle as something that can be used to put out a bit of light to see where I am going or as a good way to work on getting a fire going if dealing with wood that is damp and giving me trouble. As far as this type or that type not melting all the way, I just toss the leftover wax in a container and when board I use some of the leftover tuna cans I saved to make candles in a tuna can, you fill it with was and can put 4 or more wicks in the can spaced out. You then light as many wicks as you need for light or warmth depending on what you are wanting to do. It won't keep you very warm but it is better than nothing. And with my can opener that cuts on the side of the can I can put the original top back on the can and use tape or a rubber band to hold the lid on the can. I guess I will admit that I am now going to check prices on the holiday/religious candles and if I see something on clearance I might buy some. My light sources go from flashlights and battery powered lanterns to oil lamps and down to candles. I have coleman propane and white gas powered stuff for outside as well. I am storing more oil for the oil lamps than ever before but the candles are my backup. |