Posted: 7/2/2011 2:30:07 PM EDT
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Ok, here goes. My BOV currently is a 03 chevy 2500hd that i got for cheap from a family member who wanted the new 08 model. the only downside to this is that it is not 4wd. Apart from emptying my pockets for a conversion, what should i compensate with/do differently to minimize this drawback. I understand that 4wd is better, but this is what i got and its paid for, so im not really interested in another vehicle purchase. any suggestions?
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| First, get some basic extraction equipment such as a winch, come-a-long, hi-lift jack, shovel, blocking, etc. A locking or limited slip differential is going to make the biggest difference, tractionwise. And if you find yourself getting stuck too much, then a small lift and larger than stock all terrain or mud terrain tires to increase ground clearance. |
well i know at least one, unless pa22 is adverse to occasionally pullin a diesel lover out of the mud
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Quoted:
First, get some basic extraction equipment such as a winch, come-a-long, hi-lift jack, shovel, blocking, etc. A locking or limited slip differential is going to make the biggest difference, tractionwise. And if you find yourself getting stuck too much, then a small lift and larger than stock all terrain or mud terrain tires to increase ground clearance. +1 A locker, and some decent size tires (with matching size spare) with a nominal lift will get you through a lot of terrain. Followup it up with a front and rear hitch, winch and come-a-long, hi-lift jacks, shovels, blocking, etc and you will be good to go. |
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The old saying was that four wheel drive only got you stuck a hundred yards further into the muck. There's a bit to be said for that. Speaking as somebody who mushed a '67 Chevy half ton with helper springs all over the Rocky mountains hauling a 10' cabover camper, most of you 4xwhores would be amazed at what can be done with 2WD. You want good meaty tires with aggressive tread. Big is better than small, but not so big you can't steer. You can put bigger tires in the back than in the front on a 2X and it won't hurt much, though you'll have to keep spares for both sizes. Good suspension will be stiff. There'll be places you have to bounce out of where a 4X will crawl out. Stay the hell away from shift kits. They'll get you stuck when they decide they need to bang into a different gear all of a sudden and break traction. Chains are good, nylon rope or snatch blocks are better Other than that, all the recovery gear you'd use on a 4X is still useful on a 2X. Experience is still the best tool in the toolbox. Once you learn how the thing handles in different terrain you should be mostly fine. It'll be different than a 4X, though. Learn where those differences lie and work around them. I once followed a guy's 4X4 Toyota pickup all over the mountains west and south of Laramie WY driving a 1978 Caprice. This was in late November. Everyplace he went, I went, though there were times I had to slow down to let him get a good lead before assaying particularly grungy sections of trail, and there were times I was sliding skewed over through heavier patches of snow. Thing was, I knew the car and what it would do in the crud because I'd been driving cars in the crud most of my life (I was in my late 30s before picking up my first 4X4). Sugar sand will mess you up, and I'd stay out of mud fields more than a quarter mile across (although those aren't impossible either, ask me how I know  ) The main thing you've got to consider is ground clearance and how scuffed up you're willing to let the undercarriage get if you don't have enough. |
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The 2500HD's already have pretty good locking rear diff from the factory. And they have 31" tires with reasonable ground clearance. Good driving skill is really all that is needed to get you just about anywhere you want to go. Pick good lines and momentum is your friend. A full on ARB air locker would be a little more sure footed but I've never had enough problem with the factory locker to justify the cost.
My 03 HD w/ just the 6.0L went 250,000 miles with only minor repairs before the main bearings in the motor were getting too sloppy. Pretty solid trucks, replace with another one. |
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Quoted: Quoted: First, get some basic extraction equipment such as a winch, come-a-long, hi-lift jack, shovel, blocking, etc. A locking or limited slip differential is going to make the biggest difference, tractionwise. And if you find yourself getting stuck too much, then a small lift and larger than stock all terrain or mud terrain tires to increase ground clearance. +1 A locker, and some decent size tires (with matching size spare) with a nominal lift will get you through a lot of terrain. Followup it up with a front and rear hitch, winch and come-a-long, hi-lift jacks, shovels, blocking, etc and you will be good to go. Agreed. Get a locker in the rear, and some good tires and you can probably go more places than a stock 4x4. |
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A locker in the rear will get about as much traction as most 4x4 will have. In sand decrease the tire pressure but be sure to be able to air back up. have good tires and learn how that truck handles in adverse conditions. My drive is sand  And a boot print even losses its definition in the soft spots.  |
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Don't feel bad. I am running a stock 2wd truck myself. It was free, and was taken great care of. Low mileage, so why not. Money is tight for me right now so I work with what i've got.
Being that I grew up in a family that refused to own a 4wd for some reason even though we lived in the hills of WV I learned a few things about driving in shitty conditions. As one of the posters above said you just gotta know the vehicle, and how to drive it. It takes some practice, but i'm a pretty firm believer that 2wd will get you most places. If it won't you probably didn't need to drive there in the first place. 
Nothing against 4wd. Someday i'll have one, and have driven them. They do make things a touch easier at times. On a positive note, with a 2wd you have less to break, less weight to drag around, and they just seem to be easier to work on IMO if it makes you feel any better. I get pretty good mileage with my 4 banger as well. It's on my short list of things to do to get some bigger wheels, and AT tires. Those really do make a difference. Thanks for bringing this up OP i'm looking forward to hearing some more tips, and equipment lists. |
| well i guess im not completely screwed. I was wondering (noob alert). what would i have to do for a wench on the front. would i just run a cattle guard over my existing bumper then mount it to that or would it be more extensive than that. also, one of the things on my list would be to convert some of the space (about the size of a tool box) in my bed into more fuel space. any suggestions? |
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Quoted: You want the winch tagged to the frame, not a 5mph bumper, which will pull right off just about the time you break the rig loose from that clay bog.well i guess im not completely screwed. I was wondering (noob alert). what would i have to do for a wench on the front. would i just run a cattle guard over my existing bumper then mount it to that or would it be more extensive than that. also, one of the things on my list would be to convert some of the space (about the size of a tool box) in my bed into more fuel space. any suggestions? One thing I did forget to mention in my earlier post. Weight is your friend with a 2wd pickup. Specifically, weight right over the rear axle. I've seen everything from sandbags piled up to honest to gosh lead slugs bolted to the bed. Pickups have a tendency not to press down hard enough to get the traction you need to get out of the mess you got into with your eyes open. I remember one very, very icy night back in the '90s when I sat at a traffic light through five or six light changes with a truck that just wasn't heavy enough to move without breaking the rear tires loose and just sitting there while they spun. Finally, I walked over to the ditch and shoveled some dirt up to put under the tires lest I sit there til morning. |
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Quoted: Quoted: positraction and clearance will take you 75% of places you want to go to. Stay out of sand. That is a fact. I have a 2500 4wd sand will stop one fast without 4wd...... with 4wd you have to drive it like it's stolen. air down the tires...... i was in a 4x4 club for years down here. I ran everything from a 78' power wagon to a wrangler. The majority of the trails here are sugar sand. yeah,yeah i know...the dreaded sugar sand. The best thing guys would do on trails there were nothing but lose,sloppy sand, we would air down our tires . normally around 15-20 psi. depending on tire size etc. About the only time youd have to romp on it and get momentum is going up hill or long..long stretches of it. The issue even with 2wd is that you need to pick your lines and flow with it. keep your wheels straight. The sand will pull and jerk you all over. You start to slip. STOP. air down more or idle out and lay down some traction( boards,rocks, logs etc) i found with all my trucks ( sans the power wagon)..4 low ,air down....and crawl .....sand, mud, etc....slow and steady and drive smart . I never got stuck anymore.....when i drove pedal down, 4 high, slinging mud and sand and acting 17...stuck within 30 minutes hi lift,shovel, will be your friend .toss some water shoes in there if your AO is a wet one. save your good shoes for when your dry and g otta go on foot My BOV if i ever get it back from the repair shop is a 06' chevy, with locking rear end, with larger AT tires( around that 30-31 size..sorry their metric )i carry two on board compressors.....straps, hi lift...... |
| Sell it and get a 4x4. I don't care what tires, lockers and other bull you have on a 2x4 pickup it will still get stuck on a wet lawn. Try going up a steep gravel hill in a 2x4 with the back end bouncing all over. Tires don't last as long on a 2x4 when you are always spinning them. Don't waist your money trying to make the rig something its not, save a few bucks and if you really think you need it get a 4x4 and be done with it. |
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I live in sugar sand, it is my front and back yard....the paperstreet next to me is firm sugar sand, I have had one guy with posi stuck in it...he had crap tires and very poor driving skills, after I tried to get him out with my wrangler, had him free...he hit the gas and dug down bad..told him to get a wrecker, My buddy Jose almost got stuck with a Taco and posi....he was further up and listened to what I said ....Had a buddy...guy was a real piney...he drove a old 40 something car all over the sad, his family had 2WD Pus, old ones with 5.11 rears. But they knew the area.
When I was in the Jeep CLub it was lockers in the rear and posi in the front, then tires tires tires |
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Quoted: Everything you've just said, I've seen in real life to be untrue.Sell it and get a 4x4. I don't care what tires, lockers and other bull you have on a 2x4 pickup it will still get stuck on a wet lawn. Try going up a steep gravel hill in a 2x4 with the back end bouncing all over. Tires don't last as long on a 2x4 when you are always spinning them. Don't waist your money trying to make the rig something its not, save a few bucks and if you really think you need it get a 4x4 and be done with it. 2wd and skill will get a truck most places a 4x4 will go and back. A 2wd with lockers and some weight in it can be more effective than a 4x4 with open differentials. I've seen more than one person with a 4x4 in mud, and sit there with one tire per axle spinning. Then there's the BOV aspect of the conversation. Offroad driving is completely different when you can't afford to time to get stuck, vs. mudding on the weekend. You take less risks, pick better routes, get out and physically check the area you'll drive through. All sort of stuff you would'nt do just driving for fun. |
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Quoted:
The old saying was that four wheel drive only got you stuck a hundred yards further into the muck. There's a bit to be said for that. Speaking as somebody who mushed a '67 Chevy half ton with helper springs all over the Rocky mountains hauling a 10' cabover camper, most of you 4xwhores would be amazed at what can be done with 2WD. You want good meaty tires with aggressive tread. Big is better than small, but not so big you can't steer. You can put bigger tires in the back than in the front on a 2X and it won't hurt much, though you'll have to keep spares for both sizes. Good suspension will be stiff. There'll be places you have to bounce out of where a 4X will crawl out. Stay the hell away from shift kits. They'll get you stuck when they decide they need to bang into a different gear all of a sudden and break traction. Chains are good, nylon rope or snatch blocks are better Other than that, all the recovery gear you'd use on a 4X is still useful on a 2X. Experience is still the best tool in the toolbox. Once you learn how the thing handles in different terrain you should be mostly fine. It'll be different than a 4X, though. Learn where those differences lie and work around them. I once followed a guy's 4X4 Toyota pickup all over the mountains west and south of Laramie WY driving a 1978 Caprice. This was in late November. Everyplace he went, I went, though there were times I had to slow down to let him get a good lead before assaying particularly grungy sections of trail, and there were times I was sliding skewed over through heavier patches of snow. Thing was, I knew the car and what it would do in the crud because I'd been driving cars in the crud most of my life (I was in my late 30s before picking up my first 4X4). Sugar sand will mess you up, and I'd stay out of mud fields more than a quarter mile across (although those aren't impossible either, ask me how I know ) The main thing you've got to consider is ground clearance and how scuffed up you're willing to let the undercarriage get if you don't have enough.SPOT ON! I had a '68 C20 that went almost EVERYWHERE. Familiarity w/ your vehicle,knowing how to drive, and not caring about your vehicle works wonders!
That said, I've had 2 wheel drives that were great offroad and 4wds that were worthless. Even w/ same tires: weight, suspension,gearing,etc ALL make a difference. I siak deer hunt alot along the Atlantic. Every year, I see an OLD surf fisherman with a mid '70s Dodge conversion van (think Hippie-mobile) slowly cruise up and down the beach for miles, day and night. He airs down a set of OLD L60s, and off he goes! Right around all the stuck folks w/ $40,000 4WDs!
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Just like others have said, a 2WD will get you where you need to go 99.9% of the time if you know how to drive. However, if you're going to be doing recreational offroading (rock-crawling) or a dedicated off-road farm vehicle, I would say this would be the only circumstances to get a 4WD.
A 4WD has much more shit to break, wears out tires quicker, and is heavier, which decreases gas mileage. All these things aren't good for a SHTF situation. A 2WD with a true locker (i.e. detroit, ARB) and a frame mounted winch will get you more places than a 4WD with open diffs (actually 2WD). With that being said, if you're going to spend the money get ARB air lockers or some other type of selectable lockers. The GM G80 and posi aren't really lockers and will break under hard use. Check out this guy in a 2WD. Crown Vic Rock Crawling Crown Vic Rock Crawling II Crown Vic Rock Crawling III I used to have a P71 just like the one in the video and I drove that sonofabitch through stuff most folks in a 4WD wouldn't go through, mostly on logging roads getting to hunting spots. |
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I would see about getting a mount for a portable winch up front. If you go hanging weight up front on that thing, it is already front heavy, you are just taking weight off the rear wheels. And you want to watch your alignment as you hang stuff up front. I personally don't use a winch much so having a portable winch lets the winch live in a weatherproof box until it is needed. And for me I would most likely be pulling backwards to get out of what I got into. A portable winch gives you that option. Yes a dedicated winch up front would be nice but I just don't have the need for one so when I get around to buying a winch it will be a portable setup. If you plan to go bouncing off road in your 2wd a bit I would look underneath it and start figuring out some skid plates for the fragile stuff. I had a lunchbox locker in a 76 pontiac catalina, big 4 door boat for the young folks here, and it went a lot of places it should not have gone. I should have had better tires on it and it would have gone to a lot of other places as well. The mention of the shift kit made me figure that during bad times you need to lock it into whatever gear you want. I like rebuilt transmissions set up for towing if they are an automatic. I am dang close to just buying a stickshift 2wd pickup for a 2nd vehicle and it will probably go places it should not go but a 2wd can do some things that will surprise some folks. The nice thing about 4wd with low range is you have a much slower speed with plenty of power to accomplish whatever you want to accomplish. 4wd is nice but having had crappy 4x4 vehicles, where one front wheel spinning and one rear wheel spinning gets you stuck, I can say that a 2wd set up decently is nothing to scoff at. The diesel has the torque to turn the tires, make them good tires and while you can go up in size I would not go nuts. One thing I missed this winter was having a vehicle that can go sliding in parking lots that have not been plowed. My jeep is awd and thinks for itself when it comes to traction and it is nothing like sliding my old pontiac around was like. |
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Quoted:
Ok, here goes. My BOV currently is a 03 chevy 2500hd that i got for cheap from a family member who wanted the new 08 model. the only downside to this is that it is not 4wd. Apart from emptying my pockets for a conversion, what should i compensate with/do differently to minimize this drawback. I understand that 4wd is better, but this is what i got and its paid for, so im not really interested in another vehicle purchase. any suggestions? Winch and either a setup to allow running it under the vehicle to pull the other way or a winch in front. A block and tackle is doable instead, but a winch is easier. :) Good tires. Off road is unlikely, but at least keep tires suitable for likely conditions. Good snow tires, good wet weather tires. Most problems don't happen when it's warm and dry, and snow/rain tires handle warm and dry just fine if they have to. Make sure you've got a good hookup for a tow. I'm not really familiar with the 2500HD's but I imagine they already have one, but make sure there's one at both ends. A good loop anchored to the frame is better than half assing it at night in the cold icy rain when you've already been trying to get unstuck or fix the truck for the past hour until your buddy arrives. All three of the above apply to any vehicle really, but the bigger and heavier it is, the more they matter. You can pull a Honda Civic out of a stuck spot with almost anything and a few good ropes, it's a bit tougher to pull a truck out, particularly since whatever stopped the truck was probably a bit nastier than the civic. |
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Not to steal the OPs thunder, but any suggestions for a 2wd nissan pickup with a 4cyl? It goes places I wouldnt imagine, but needs some more clearance. It still has the stock 14" wheels which don't give enough options as far as tires go. I keep looking around trying to find decent affordable wheels, but i'm lost as far as what to get. I just need something fairly cheap to mount some taller tires on. I just don't want to kill the engine being that it's a 4cyl by putting monster tires on.
What should I get? As far as lockers go I have no experience in that dept. other than what it has from the factory seems to work pretty good. |
so by all means continue
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Dad drove a 2WD his whole life and if the going got too tough, out came the tire chains to get him where he needed to go. Once he put them on the front to help him steer down a steep snow covered grade.
I have a 4WD Ranger and keep tire chains for front and rear. |
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Thanks for posting up the crown vic video's in moab, was looking for those the other night to put up. Another interesting thing to thing about, most of the Baja 100 vehicles are 2wd. Long travel suspension, good tires, and SPEED get them through most everything, hell there's even a stock VW beetle class, and they make it as well! |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: positraction and clearance will take you 75% of places you want to go to. Stay out of sand. That is a fact. I have a 2500 4wd sand will stop one fast without 4wd...... with 4wd you have to drive it like it's stolen. air down the tires...... i was in a 4x4 club for years down here. I ran everything from a 78' power wagon to a wrangler. The majority of the trails here are sugar sand. yeah,yeah i know...the dreaded sugar sand. The best thing guys would do on trails there were nothing but lose,sloppy sand, we would air down our tires . normally around 15-20 psi. depending on tire size etc. About the only time youd have to romp on it and get momentum is going up hill or long..long stretches of it. The issue even with 2wd is that you need to pick your lines and flow with it. keep your wheels straight. The sand will pull and jerk you all over. You start to slip. STOP. air down more or idle out and lay down some traction( boards,rocks, logs etc) i found with all my trucks ( sans the power wagon)..4 low ,air down....and crawl .....sand, mud, etc....slow and steady and drive smart . I never got stuck anymore.....when i drove pedal down, 4 high, slinging mud and sand and acting 17...stuck within 30 minutes hi lift,shovel, will be your friend .toss some water shoes in there if your AO is a wet one. save your good shoes for when your dry and g otta go on foot My BOV if i ever get it back from the repair shop is a 06' chevy, with locking rear end, with larger AT tires( around that 30-31 size..sorry their metric )i carry two on board compressors.....straps, hi lift...... I have nitrogen and co2 set ups The place i'm specifically talking/thinking about it doesn't matter what you do you won't drive a heavy 2wd through. You know all sand conditions are different. Flipside of that is as long as you don't stop or go to slow you can drive my 6cyl 4wd f150 all over without locking it in. Same thing with jeeps. Add a 14ft flat bottom to any of that and it requires 4wd. |
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Dad drove a 2WD his whole life and if the going got too tough, out came the tire chains to get him where he needed to go. Once he put them on the front to help him steer down a steep snow covered grade. I have a 4WD Ranger and keep tire chains for front and rear. The info about jacks and winches is good but if you need to go off road chain up and put about 600 lbs over the wheels. I had a 69 chevy heavy half and used to use it as a skidder in the national forest in Idaho. pulled off the road put on the chains pulled out with 2-3 cord on the 5th wheel trailer took off the chains and drove home. I had a stock 3.73 rear with a big block and a turbo 400, a real stump puller. I had split rims all around. good pair can be had for under $150 I would try to get the suspension up if it rides to low under load. I always wished I had one of those gas powered winchs just for the peace of mind. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: positraction and clearance will take you 75% of places you want to go to. Stay out of sand. That is a fact. I have a 2500 4wd sand will stop one fast without 4wd...... with 4wd you have to drive it like it's stolen. air down the tires...... i was in a 4x4 club for years down here. I ran everything from a 78' power wagon to a wrangler. The majority of the trails here are sugar sand. yeah,yeah i know...the dreaded sugar sand. The best thing guys would do on trails there were nothing but lose,sloppy sand, we would air down our tires . normally around 15-20 psi. depending on tire size etc. About the only time youd have to romp on it and get momentum is going up hill or long..long stretches of it. The issue even with 2wd is that you need to pick your lines and flow with it. keep your wheels straight. The sand will pull and jerk you all over. You start to slip. STOP. air down more or idle out and lay down some traction( boards,rocks, logs etc) i found with all my trucks ( sans the power wagon)..4 low ,air down....and crawl .....sand, mud, etc....slow and steady and drive smart . I never got stuck anymore.....when i drove pedal down, 4 high, slinging mud and sand and acting 17...stuck within 30 minutes hi lift,shovel, will be your friend .toss some water shoes in there if your AO is a wet one. save your good shoes for when your dry and g otta go on foot My BOV if i ever get it back from the repair shop is a 06' chevy, with locking rear end, with larger AT tires( around that 30-31 size..sorry their metric )i carry two on board compressors.....straps, hi lift...... I have nitrogen and co2 set ups The place i'm specifically talking/thinking about it doesn't matter what you do you won't drive a heavy 2wd through. You know all sand conditions are different. Flipside of that is as long as you don't stop or go to slow you can drive my 6cyl 4wd f150 all over without locking it in. Same thing with jeeps. Add a 14ft flat bottom to any of that and it requires 4wd. for the most part...but from what ive seen..good rubber and smart drivers make it go... kinda like anything else right..... |