[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best Auto Battery? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/22/2011 2:15:08 PM EDT
| I have been running Optimas for many years but I had one go bad on me last year after only about 16 mos. of service. Have heard the Diehard Platinum is every bit as good or better. $200 for a battery is a bunch of money! |
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Optima was once a good product.
Like much of Johnson Controls mexican built consumer grade price point product, OPTIMA and Interstate branded batteries have fallen well down the quality curve. Sorry. Look for some of the remaining US built battery products. California, Pennsylvania,Washington, and Georgia still have some battery manufacturing. |
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I have a 6-year old Optima, but have been reading similar to above about their quality.
Next time, which is soon, I may be going with one of these: Odyssey Batteries- Expedition Exchange Might be able to find them for less than above if you look around. |
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Get the Autozone Gold. The battery itself is pretty good. However the warranty is pretty awesome. 3 years free replacement, then prorate up to 8 years. (they honor it, without hassle in my experience) +1 Their Duralast Gold are great batteries. Both of my vehicles have Duralast Gold, one is five years old, the other is probably three. No problems at all with either. |
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If you can find a size that'll fit your vehicle, a deep-cycle "RV/Marine" battery is pretty hard to beat. They use thicker plates than conventional SLI (starting/lighting/ignition) batteries, which makes them less likely to crack or buckle. They also tend to have larger electrolyte reservoirs.
Aside from longer life expectancy, they also have the advantage of being able to tolerate deep discharges without going tits-up - very handy for SHTF use of AC inverters, NiMH battery chargers, communications equipment, laptops, etc. However, they aren't without their disadvantages - They usually don't deliver as many cold cranking amps as a SLI battery of comparable size. Interstate use to build decent RV/Marine batteries, but their quality has dropped since they recently moved their production lines to Mexico. East Penn still makes a good battery, sometimes sold under the "Deka" brand. Trojan also makes a very good battery. Most of the other brands are now all made by the same handful of manufacturers. |
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We mostly use interstate batterys you usally get 4 to 5 years out of them.Now adays you really have to match the battery to the vehicle.It's not like ten or fifeteen years ago.MODERN CARS use alot of juice MORE THAN YOU THINK. cars REALLY PUT A SERIUOS DRAIN on batterys.Modern vehicles can drain a battery a lot faster than you think.Newer cars are never off.They have computers and modules and shit that always draws power.SOME CARS WILL KILL A BATTERY IN A WEEK IF THERE NOT RUN.
Try telling the retire that the reason his caddy(BARF) has a dead battery is because driveing a half mile to the store and back each week is not enough to charge the battery.I deal with this stuff constanly.If youre in a hot climate (FLORIDA) or a cold climate (ANY WHERE ELSE  )You will have this problem with modern carsPS sometimes batterys just die.Not anything you can do about it.Shit happens I don't care if it's a fitfy dollar battery from walmart or a two hundred dollar battery from the RACE place.
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This one is the best. Can you afford it? |
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This one is the best. Can you afford it? 16 volts though |
| I think Consumer Reports rated batteries recently. Might be worth a trip to the library to see what they have to say. I've been very pleased with my experience with Costco's Kirkland brand. Got something like 7 years out of my last one, and their satisfaction guarantee is second to none. |
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Quoted: Quoted: This one is the best. Can you afford it? 16 volts though 16 volts spin your starter faster. Mostly used in high compression large displacement motors. In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. If im not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way.
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This one is the best. Can you afford it? 16 volts though 16 volts spin your starter faster. Mostly used in high compression large displacement motors. In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. If im not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way. you run the alternator with it also |
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This one is the best. Can you afford it? 16 volts though 16 volts spin your starter faster. Mostly used in high compression large displacement motors. In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. If im not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way. there is so much wrong information above i don't know where to start. ar-jedi |
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truck is 10 years old. just started year number 6 on the replacement battery, an Interstate MTP-24F. ar-jedi http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/tacoma/DSCN2664_sm.jpg http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/tacoma/DSCN2665_sm.jpg http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/tacoma/DSCN2669_sm.jpg As I was saying earlier, INTERSTATE WAS marketing a pretty good product 6 years ago, since that time, they have shifted their automotive BATTERY production to Mexico, and the quality is in steep decline. |
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When comparing batteries, look at cold cranking amps (CCA), reserve capacity (RC), years of warranty, and price. I have some batteries that are 950-1150 CCA and have a five year warranty. But they cost a little more. You can buy a $100 Batt. But it will have 400 CCA and a two year warranty. This compared to a 950 CCA and a five year warranty. It is worth the $230. Ya more money, but it is a much stronger unit. I have replaced some crappy batteries with good ones, and the vehicle started faster especially when cold out. Replacing it half as often means half as many possible failures. And twice the strength is always good.
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I have been running Optimas for many years but I had one go bad on me last year after only about 16 mos. of service. Have heard the Diehard Platinum is every bit as good or better. $200 for a battery is a bunch of money! The Die Hard Platinum is light years better. I'm using 23 of them right now. The DH P are a fully sealed dry cell flat plate (no venting, gel, water) and provide the strongest battery for the size. They are at Sears and they have a great warranty. The optima series is dated technology. I've used maybe 30 of them. Not as strong as others and don't last as long ether. I have popped one too. An employee was grinding near a battery that was charging. It blew up spitting gas, melting the plastic shell, and leaking everywhere. Luckily it is was in a battery box and no one was hurt. If not the DH P, the Odyssey would be my second choice. I've used 8 of the PC2150. It is a good battery. But I can get the DH P here a little cheaper ($45 less each), there're a little stronger (100 CCA), and they are lasting a little longer for me (just observation). |
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there is so much wrong information above i don't know where to start.
I'm curious to hear what is wrong with his post. I'm not sure about cars going to 16volts in the future, but I do know just about all vehicles are running roughly 14-14.4v with the alternator turning. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This one is the best. Can you afford it? 16 volts though 16 volts spin your starter faster. Mostly used in high compression large displacement motors. In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. If im not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way. there is so much wrong information above i don't know where to start. ar-jedi Well I'll start, tell me where I'm wrong. First, 16 volts spin your starter faster. I'm not sure if its faster or more torque but it does a better job of starting larger displacement motors. You can here a difference when you turn the motor over, It has less drag and starts the motor faster. Second, In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. Well Ill admit that that's mostly my opinion but I base that on new improvements in lithium polymer battery technology and the fact that more and more cars are going hybrid. Third, If i'm not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. Thats a fact. Most cars supplied with maintenance free batteries have their voltage regulators set at 14.3 volts. Some GM vehicles even have theirs set as high as 14.8. That's off the alternator supplying charge to the battery resulting in the battery averaging 14 volts. Don't believe me, get a good dc volt meter and check the voltage on your truck. Lastly, We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way. It's true. Here is the link to the computer control system my friend runs. http://www.racecarcontrol.com/ It's a PLC, it logs data and basically runs the car. Everything from timeing curves, actuating the nitrous kits, to even starting the car. It even has a 6" touch screen user interface in the car that replaces the gauges and can control all the preprogramed functions and it runs just fine on 16 volts. I'm not trying to be a smart ass but you post said I'm giving out bad information so much so that you don't even know where to start. If I'm wrong enlighten me. |
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The Die Hard Platinum is light years better. I'm using 23 of them right now. The DH P are a fully sealed dry cell flat plate (no venting, gel, water) and provide the strongest battery for the size. They are at Sears and they have a great warranty. There's some rumor that it's a rebranded Odyssey, but I'm not so sure. I looked up the DHP for my truck and it's $200. The Odyssey is $310-$315 depending on who you buy it from. A $100 price difference makes me question that, even though the cases look exactly the same. ETA, well a little digging did come up with the fact that they are made by EnerSys. If it is indeed the same battery, then they must be giving Sears one hell of a deal on them if they are able to sell them for 1/3 less. 
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I am not an expert but here is my opinion on some of this. If buying a battery I would go with one of the sealed setups if you are going to be running the vehicle at extreme angles or if the setup has the battery in the passenger compartment. Right now the only sealed battery I hear good things about would be the sears platinum. When my jeep needs a replacement I already found a local place that tends to stock the right size battery and they have a warranty not as nice as the autozone 84 month warranty but close enough I will probably stay local. I want same size and same cca and reserve capacity. I am going with a basically stock replacement and this is fine because while my jeep might go up a steep hill now and then it is not steep enough to where I need something sealed. On to the 16 volt discussion. When I worked as a mechanic it was common knowledge that an alternator had to put out 14 volts or so in order to really charge a 12 volt battery. So the alternator will need to put out maybe 18 volts to charge a 16 volt battery I guess. And while I tend to look for 13.8 volts when using my cheapy digital volt ohm meter to check a car battery I know that under a load test the battery tends to drop down to its more normal readings. For messing with a race vehicle I don't worry about messing with stuff like a 16 volt battery and what not. For a street vehicle I would wonder if the stock computer will be happy for 100s of thousands of miles on 16 volts. I don't think stock alternators are going to put out 18 volts to charge your 16 volt battery. The aftermarket computer interface tends to be better built than stock computers in vehicles these days. And with how sensitive some vehicles are when being jump started I am not going to mess with something other than 12 volts. I am glad the starter spins faster but my memory of starters is bushings and I see higher speeds spinning as something that will wear the bushing out sooner. No biggy on a race vechicle, annoying on my daily driver. And while the engine may spin fewer revolutions with the 16 volt battery before it fires off I just see the bushing getting a higher load while spinning and not lasting very long. I admit I could easily be wrong on some of this. But tossing a 16 volt battery in where a 12 volt battery used to live seems odd to me. You are increasing volts 25% and it seems to me that is a decent jump from what it used to be. One thing I know from older vehicles is that as they age and corrode and grounds get weak and what not a 16 volt might work at keeping the thing running but I think I would rather know I had an issue coming with the 12 volt battery than let the 16 volt keep on pushing electrons through the corrosion of grounds or whatever. People can do as they wish with vehicles. I used to modify stuff and drag race a bit and I still enjoy reading up on some well done modified vehicles. In this section a lot of this comes down to reliability. I don't plan to drop a 16 volt battery into my jeep even if someone shows up on my doorstep with a free 16 volt battery. The jeep was made for 12 volt batteries and I am not going to deviate from that because I would wonder about reliability of components if running that 16 volt setup. And I would like a professional opinion on what an alternator would have to output to properly charge a 16 volt setup and what would need to be done to have a stock alternator properly charge that 16 volt setup. |
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The Die Hard Platinum is light years better. I'm using 23 of them right now. The DH P are a fully sealed dry cell flat plate (no venting, gel, water) and provide the strongest battery for the size. They are at Sears and they have a great warranty. There's some rumor that it's a rebranded Odyssey, but I'm not so sure. I looked up the DHP for my truck and it's $200. The Odyssey is $310-$315 depending on who you buy it from. A $100 price difference makes me question that, even though the cases look exactly the same. ETA, well a little digging did come up with the fact that they are made by EnerSys. If it is indeed the same battery, then they must be giving Sears one hell of a deal on them if they are able to sell them for 1/3 less. I was buying the Ody G31 for $285 plus tax. the DH P runs $240 but I have a commercial account at Sears that gets me 10% off. So they end up being $230 OTD. If you wanted an Ody, get on their dealers page and call everyone near you. The price will vary hugely. I found a B&M shop that beat the interweb and Batteries plus by quite a bit. It is my understanding they are not the same battery. I was told by a battery sales rep I believe at a Batteries Plus. Same sealed flat plate dry cell design though. If it were a rebrand, the specs would be the same. With all of the Ody, DH P I've compared, they are a little different (the G31s- 1050 vs 1150 CCA). The tops on the DH P have gone to a smooth design (Ody are the ribbed) and they do not share the same handle. Also the G31 series Ody only has 1/4, 5/16 screw post. And the DH P has The 1/4, 5/16 and 3/4 round post. With that much of a difference makes me think they are not the same. But it could be made by the same manufacture to different specs if I was wrong. |
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This one is the best. Can you afford it? http://www.jerrybickel.com/batteries-and-components/xs-power-regulated-lithium-battery-and-charger-combo-powl1600ck.html it's not "the best". why would the OP want a $1900 battery that requires further extensive modifications to his charging system, specifically replacing the alternator with an expensive, non-standard model suitable for charging a 16V battery? i can think of a lot better things to do with $2500 or so. the OP asked for suggestions on a new battery for his current car, and not a battery and alternator solution that costs as much as downpayment on a new car. Quoted:
First, 16 volts spin your starter faster. 'm not sure if its faster or more torque but it does a better job of starting larger displacement motors. You can here a difference when you turn the motor over, It has less drag and starts the motor faster. does the OP have a large displacement, high compression motor? has he complained about the length of time it takes to start the car? will his car's electrical system be reliable, in the long term, with a 16V battery installed? if your drag car's 16V system goes tits up on the side of the racetrack, you push the car into the pits and have your mechanic work on it. and if it is found to be really fubar'd you push the car into the hauler and call it a day. on the other hand if the 16V system in your daily driver goes tits up while you are on Route 10 in East Bumbleweed, where are you going to get a new 16V battery or new 16V compatible alternator, etc? down at the local Pep Boys? really? Quoted:
Second, In 15 years most cars will probably be 16 volts. Well Ill admit that that's mostly my opinion but I base that on new improvements in lithium polymer battery technology and the fact that more and more cars are going hybrid. 16V is the wrong voltage for traction motor applications, for a number of reasons. primarily, the I-squared-R losses in the battery cabling and motor windings are too high with such a low voltage. there is no appreciable benefit to 16V over a nominal 12V system; 16V was a result of LiPo chemistry, and the electrochemical couple voltage, and happens to be "mostly" compatible with traditional 12V system. that said, a traditional, ubiquitous 12V automotive alternator will not charge a 16V battery –– at all. in other words, if as you suggest the OP simply replaces his current battery with your "Can you afford it?" battery, he doesn't have a working system. the 16V battery will never be charged by the nominal 12V alternator and eventually the car won't start. that's awesome, all for only $1900. Quoted:
Third, If i'm not mistaken most cars are 14 volts right now. Thats a fact. Most cars supplied with maintenance free batteries have their voltage regulators set at 14.3 volts. Some GM vehicles even have theirs set as high as 14.8. That's off the alternator supplying charge to the battery resulting in the battery averaging 14 volts. you are talking about two different things here. the nominal voltage of an automotive application battery is 12V; this is a result of the 2.1V/cell electrochemistry of Pb/H2SO4, and a charged six cell arrangement results in 12.6V open circuit voltage at 25'C ambient temperature. the open circuit battery voltage will fall to around 11.8V when completely discharged. during starting system operation, the battery terminal voltage may drop as low as 10V as the high current starter motor is turning the engine over; the voltage droop is a result of internal impedance in the battery itself. the power dissipated by the starter motor has to be recovered, otherwise after repeated use the battery will have insufficient power to turn the engine over. on to charging... during charging system operation, the alternator produces, rectifies, and regulates the charge voltage to approximately 13.8-14.2V. this "high" voltage reverses the electrochemical reaction in the battery –– that is, current flows INTO the battery, restoring the battery to full charge. as the battery is charged, the regulator bias in the alternator is reduced, and while the output voltage stays relatively constant the charge current diminishes towards zero. this prevents heating and outgassing the battery, which is detrimental to it's lifespan. Quoted:
Don't believe me, get a good dc volt meter and check the voltage on your truck. i just did. i used a Fluke model 87 TrueRMS DMM. it's 12.5 volts. 
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Lastly, We run 16 volts on our drag cars and it doesn't effect the computers in any negative way. It's true. Here is the link to the computer control system my friend runs. http://www.racecarcontrol.com/ [/div][div]It's a PLC, it logs data and basically runs the car. Everything from timeing curves, actuating the nitrous kits, to even starting the car. It even has a 6" touch screen user interface in the car that replaces the gauges and can control all the preprogramed functions and it runs just fine on 16 volts. the OP is not interested in any aspect of this. he presumably doesn't have a logging system, variable timing, or nitrous injection, etc, or he would have said so. he just wants his car to start in the morning, and then every time thereafter on demand without any long term issues and with no further involvement on his part. just because it works for you in a drag car doesn't mean it's a good idea for the OP's daily use car. again, the farthest you can end up at a drag strip from your pit is about a half mile. if something in the electrical system fails it's not a huge inconvenience to push the car back. but it doesn't work that way in the real world, unless you really enjoy interfacing with tow truck operators in shady sections of town. continue running nominal 12V electronics from a 16V battery and eventually you are going to have a problem. and not if, but when it happens you'll be faced with non-standard, not-easily-available parts to replace. you use a 16V system in your drag car because: 1) you don't care about long term reliability, and 2) 16V turns over a large displacement, high compression motor better, and 3) you are not using an alternator at all, thus avoiding the weight and power robbing load. at the end of your day, the 16V battery is recharged via an specialized, external, AC wall plug powered charger. this is not what the OP wants. he wants a new battery for his car, not a lifestyle change and a $2500 bill. ar-jedi |
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i had a 1 year old Optima yellow top die in my truck last year too. couldn't find the receipt and the Pep Boys where i purchased it couldn't find my purchase in the computer and wouldn't do anything for me. Go to Sears. The guy once said when looking up an order, "Did you also buy a can of carb cleaner and a fart suppressing smelly tree?" Their computer is far better for warranty crap. |
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Quoted: I have a 6-year old Optima, but have been reading similar to above about their quality. Next time, which is soon, I may be going with one of these: Odyssey Batteries- Expedition Exchange Might be able to find them for less than above if you look around. This is my choice 6 years and going on my 4 redtop optimas still though. Before that I had one die due to a regulator in my alternator go out and tried to charge over 20v had to replace the pair as a set even though only one died I paid for one they got the other. they were 2 years old |
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Went to Autozone and bought a Gold. The warranty and the fact that there are a billion Autozones in the world tipped my decision. The fact that is was about $75 cheaper than the Die Hard was also a factor- $125 vs. $200. Thanks Guys. File that invoice. I'm not sure if they can look up non commercial account transactions.
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File that invoice. I'm not sure if they can look up non commercial account transactions.
I have one of those vinyl "money bags" that the banks hand out to commercial customers that I keep in each vehicle with the Discount Tires warranty etc...in it.It works pretty well. That's how I got my dead Optima taken care of, took it back to Sams and said, "It doesn't work". They asked for my receipt and since it was only a year old they installed another one for me right then. |
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What I had been told for years is that there are only a few battery manufacturers in the US left because of lead-related regulatory hassles. They make batteries for everyone, including car companies and heavy equipment companies. They make them to the spec requested. If you are, say, Caterpillar, and your customers get very testy about battery issues, you always make them to the heavier spec. If you are Sears, you make them to the spec that costs $65 so you can charge $90 and make a little money with a reserve for insane/criminal/unlucky customers and their problems. If the costs go up, Cat charges more. Sears changes spec and keeps the prices the same. I have used Cat batteries in my cars for years and they start in a flash and last 6+ years in the Texas heat. They are usually twice as expensive. Interestingly, they seem to have fewer CCAs than a lot of larger batteries from companies like Interstate that die in 3+ years, yet the start faster and last longer.
This may not be correct information, but it seems that way to me. |
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I like the Autozone gold batteries. Had good luck with them over the years. Decent price too.
I HATE being stranded on the side of the road with a dead battery. So, I replace the vehicle battery 1 year past the free replacement warranty and ignore the pro rated warranty. For my gold Duralast batteries, that's about 5 years IIRC. Good enough for me. Since I believe in being prepared (this is the Survival Forum right?), I also carry jumper cables and a booster pack. Never had to use them on my vehicles but have had to use them on other people's vehicles. |
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i'm lucky enough to know several people that deal with nothing but auto stuff. I will tell you there are only several companies that make car batteries. They just put different brand names on each battery. So you should be good to go with about any choice. +1 Most are made in China anyway and the big name is Yuasa. they make bateries for so many popular name brands now. I would love to pay for an American made car battery, or any battery for that matter, please post any here. I would never pay for an Optima.... it looks like a six pack of beer. the design leave out a percentage of the foot print for dead air. I would rather the extra lead / zinc and acid. heat is your enemy with any battery. |
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After recently experiencing the failure of the second pair of Interstate batteries installed in my diesel F-250 in the last TWO YEARS, I am DONE with Interstate. Their batteries appear to be pure shit these days. I did some research and after hearing great things about the Die Hard Platinums (which are indeed manufactured by Odyssey), I took a deep breath and spent about $400 for a pair of them. They've only been in the truck for a few weeks so I can't say a thing about how they will hold up, but I can say that my truck has never cranked over so nicely.
I think these are the ticket. Optimas were at one time "the shit", but I have seen too many people locally with bad luck with them. By the way, I am in the automotive service industry and deal with this stuff every day. I could have swapped the dead Interstates for another set free of charge because of the warranty, but gave them to Sears as my cores. I will not tolerate batteries that last one year and can't have the chance of failure looming over me. Time will tell if I made the right choice, but the DH Platinums have a very good track record thus far. |
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i just did. i used a Fluke model 87 TrueRMS DMM. it's 12.5 volts.
Is this with the vehicle swtiched off, or with the motor idling? switched off, of course. 
with the engine idling, it would be more towards 13.8V to 14.2V, the nominal "float" voltage for the charging system. ar-jedi |
| I have a pair of costco batteries in my duramax, they were bought new just before i purchased the truck. They would not have been my first choice only because there arent any costcos around me but they start the vehicle very well even in very cold temps. Good thread, I always thought optimas were the best but i would be looking at sears and autozone becasue they are still just about everywhere i go. |