Posted: 4/1/2011 9:17:19 AM EDT
Well, given the state of our economy I forsee some sort of a melt down in the not so distant future and I can honostly say that I am unprepared for the most part if it really gets bad. I have thought about it before so I have a little bit of a plan, but things like my BOB need to be prepped. I have been scowering the threads here but I thought I would pose a few questions given my scenario. My family has a farm. Driving to it takes about an hour going the speed limit. I have to circumvent a major city (I live in the suburbs on the opposite side) and cross a major river (multiple crossing places so unless we are attacked I am not too worried about this). Once I get to the farm there are multiple houses close by owned by different members of the family but I will still be packing supplies to camp in case it is really bad and because I would want to protect the livestock. Since it is a cattle farm we would be good on meat for quite a while but we don't grow any crops so everything else needs to be planned out in advance. I have the following major concerns: -I have two grandparents a couple hundred miles away in the opposite direction of the BOL. One of them is very sick. I have another set of grandparents right next to the BOL. One of them is also very sick. My mother happens to be on a lot of medication for her heart and my wife has asthma that needs to be controlled with medication. How in the hell do you stock up on medication? Am I going to have to raid a hostpital or pharmacy if it gets bad enough? -What do you do about someone who is a long ways away and needs protection? Get everything settled and then go get them or grab them immediately before it gets too bad? -Considering that there is a farm do you change what goes in a BOB? -Since I will be the only person planning anything how do you plan to help 10 or 12 people? Just add more stuff or do I need to start storage efforts at the BOL to accomodate everyone? I will have more questions but we will start with these. Thanks in advance. I am trying to learn but now that I realize how screwed I would be I am trying to learn as fast as possible. There is so much information it is like drinking from a wide open fire hydrant! |
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The 3 pillars of business are: cheap, fast, and good quality. You can pick any 2, but cannot have all 3.
You are trying to do this "soon" so we will say you want to pick fast as your first answer. you will have to decide which one you want as your second... My guess is you will want good quality preps ie: corn, rice, pasta etc....not ramen noodles and empty worthless stuff to fill your stomach. If this is the case you will have an expensive road ahead of you, especially for 10-12 people. I like to organize my preps in terms of what will be needed first. What I mean is this, You can last 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 months with out food. Some add in 3 hours without shelter. So attack the first ones first. Air is easy, no problem. Shelter- Sounds like you have that under control for all 12 people. Water- Do you have enough stored, a spring, or a nice filter system in place? For 12 people a katedyn Pro Hiker is not going to cut it. Food- Once you have water squared away, focus on food. There are a lot of good sources out there for food at still reasonable prices. Sams club type places can be great. Also see if you know any LDS people in your area that can take you to the LDS cannery. The benefit here, is you can buy food in metal #10 cans, you cant do this at sams club... Now you have your "needs" covered. Now you can move onto "wants" and "probably going to be necessary items". Guns Ammo Spices to make hundreds of pounds of rice still exciting after 3 days of eating it Toilet paper First aid (this should have been higher up on the list, its very important) You ask about a BOB and if it will need to be altered based on your AO. Every BOB is different to start with, so yes. Again with the first come first serve: In my bob I have a way to filter water. I also have a plastic sheet to make a solar still if I cant find readily available water. Next I have some power bars, but more importantly trapping, snaring, and fishing equipment. You might not need fishing stuff if you happened to live in the desert. I carry a lightweight tarp in My Bob as well. You just need to look at what the most basic essential needs are, then pack away things to satisfy those needs. |
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If no one else in your family is on board with prepping it's going to be rough.
Maybe they will come around if/when SHTF. First and foremost take care of yourself! If you become sick or injured they who will be looking out for them? You are putting a lot of responsibility on yourself. That is admirable. Make sure you have what you need to survive and thrive and go from there. |
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I think your situation is not unlike alot of people's but not unmanageable at all.
Travelling to the farm takes a couple issues into consideration; leaving before the event or in anticipation of it. Otherwise given a major disaster / storm/ etc do you think you would even be able to make it to the farm given traffic congestion. In my situation and the area I live in if I don't get a jump on the issue then I'm bugging in and once things settle I would then start to think about picking up my mother-in-law who is an hour away. With a jump on things we can pick her up, she is in good health and grew up at the BOL and knows the area and people very well. My parents are self sufficient, well prepped and know how to get to the BOL, if they make it great if not we can just hope for the best. As far as meds. take advantage of every refill possible, even if you don't anticipate needing it. Someone else in your party just might. I've heard other people mention asking their Dr. to prescribe more dosage units to reduce Dr. and Pharmacy visits for patients particularly the elderly who rely on others for transportation. If your Dr. is pretty reasonable talk with him or her about your thoughts and what over the counter meds might fill the gap for certain ailments One thing we have done overtime is stocked our BOL with TP, soap, basic meds, blankets, extra clothes, jackets, flashlights, batteries, bottled water, gasoline, kero and more so it prepositioned to some degree. We use the place for vacations all the time so it's two fold in that we don't have to pack so much when going there, alot of it is essentially there when we arrive. If we don't make it up there then our neighbor and friend will have some extra supplies and so it would not be wasted. First and foremost is you have to get yourself prepared so start by making sure you have what you need to stabilize your own situation. You can't be any help to them if you are struggling yourself. Typically everyone starts with building up 3 months of food/water etc and a basic defense plan...weapons/ ammo and overtime building on that so it can cover more than one person |
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Quoted:
The 3 pillars of business are: cheap, fast, and good quality. You can pick any 2, but cannot have all 3. You are trying to do this "soon" so we will say you want to pick fast as your first answer. you will have to decide which one you want as your second... My guess is you will want good quality preps ie: corn, rice, pasta etc....not ramen noodles and empty worthless stuff to fill your stomach. If this is the case you will have an expensive road ahead of you, especially for 10-12 people. I like to organize my preps in terms of what will be needed first. What I mean is this, You can last 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and 3 months with out food. Some add in 3 hours without shelter. So attack the first ones first. Air is easy, no problem. Shelter- Sounds like you have that under control for all 12 people. Water- Do you have enough stored, a spring, or a nice filter system in place? For 12 people a katedyn Pro Hiker is not going to cut it. Food- Once you have water squared away, focus on food. There are a lot of good sources out there for food at still reasonable prices. Sams club type places can be great. Also see if you know any LDS people in your area that can take you to the LDS cannery. The benefit here, is you can buy food in metal #10 cans, you cant do this at sams club... Now you have your "needs" covered. Now you can move onto "wants" and "probably going to be necessary items". Guns Ammo Spices to make hundreds of pounds of rice still exciting after 3 days of eating it Toilet paper First aid (this should have been higher up on the list, its very important) You ask about a BOB and if it will need to be altered based on your AO. Every BOB is different to start with, so yes. Again with the first come first serve: In my bob I have a way to filter water. I also have a plastic sheet to make a solar still if I cant find readily available water. Next I have some power bars, but more importantly trapping, snaring, and fishing equipment. You might not need fishing stuff if you happened to live in the desert. I carry a lightweight tarp in My Bob as well. You just need to look at what the most basic essential needs are, then pack away things to satisfy those needs. Did you mean weeks? That seems like a long time to me. |
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Quoted:
I have the following major concerns: -I have two grandparents a couple hundred miles away in the opposite direction of the BOL. One of them is very sick. I have another set of grandparents right next to the BOL. One of them is also very sick. My mother happens to be on a lot of medication for her heart and my wife has asthma that needs to be controlled with medication. How in the hell do you stock up on medication? Am I going to have to raid a hostpital or pharmacy if it gets bad enough? Touch situation. The problem w/ most meds is that they don't store very long. So even if you manage to get a doc to give you a years worth and/or you loot a pharmacy, if it's TEOTWAWKI, those on meds aren't likely to survive long unless they can find a natural alternative, if any exist. Quoted: -What do you do about someone who is a long ways away and needs protection? Get everything settled and then go get them or grab them immediately before it gets too bad?
You pretty much nailed it. If they can't protect themselves, you try to arrange for somebody to get them and bring them in. If you're single, then plan on heading immediately to get those who can't protect themselves. If you're married or have others counting on you, then secure them first before you trek out, but don't leave those you're with unsecured to try to rescue others. Quoted:-Considering that there is a farm do you change what goes in a BOB?
A BOB is to get you to your destination or provide you w/ a few days worth of food, shelter, survival gear until you can get to a better place. So put in your BOB whatever you'd need to get to your BOL. Quoted:-Since I will be the only person planning anything how do you plan to help 10 or 12 people? Just add more stuff or do I need to start storage efforts at the BOL to accommodate everyone?
If you're the only one planning and implementing, you're in trouble. You can do it, but it will cost you in time, money and opsec. If others aren't on board, they may talk about their "crazy grandson" who stored tons of food at the farm. Then when TSHTF, the people your relatives talked to will remember your food stash. Your best bet is to try to get others to work with you and then all store food at the BOL. Quoted:I will have more questions but we will start with these. Thanks in advance. I am trying to learn but now that I realize how screwed I would be I am trying to learn as fast as possible. There is so much information it is like drinking from a wide open fire hydrant!
Don't overwhelm yourself. Here's the canned answer for prepping: Make a list of the most likely disaster to hit you, regardless of the size or cause. Arrange the list from most to least likely to happen. Then start at the top and prep for the most likely event. Make sure you've got food/water, shelter, protection, and transport covered for the most likely event and tailor what you have to the event. Then move to the next most likely event and prep for that. What you'll find is that as you move down your list, you already have some of the categories covered and may just need to supplement. An easy way to start is simply getting a weeks worth of food you eat daily. Then double that, double it again and so on until you have 3 months worth of what you eat normally. Then start adding in bulk stores of oats, wheat, rice, mres etc. How quickly you do this depends on how many people you're buying for and how much you have. Lastly, while the survival forum here is one of the best, check out thesurvivalpodcast.com, both the podcast and the forum - you'll get another point of view, plus the podcasts are easily digestable while your doing other things (e.g., driving). |
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the above info has very good points. you wont be prepping for 10-12 long term. I'm sorry to break it to you this way, but in reality several of those on meds will die. prep for the strong ones. I agree, if you want to get some extra things that you need or will use on a regular basis then go for it...I mean like a shovel, pitchfork, rake, water filters, seeds, canned goods(food...veg's, fruit, meat, sauces ect.) you'll use those a lot on a farm with no garden. you get the above mentioned for a garden in the spring, to help for next year...so since you have no garden planted there, you will need enough food to get you through, till you can grow your own, that could be several months even over a year. If the SHTF in may, and you bug out to your location....you won't have a garden producing until next year, say late june to july is the earlies for getting anything out of it, so your food supplies would need to last you until then...atleast. Don't forget canning equipment for preserving your crops in the years to come. Tons of things to get, need or want for a SHTF....we all started somewhere..press on...prep on. |
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I hear you on the taking care of myself and those who are likely to survive first. I am a realist. In reality, both grandfathers are in bad enough shape that they wouldn't last long. Only one grandma is really in good shape. My primary concerns would be my mother and my wife. My mom is in good shape she just had a random virus attack her heart and has to take medication now. The good news is that one of the family members would be a doctor.
thanks for your replies. I would like to get others involved but I just don't know if they will be on board until something tangible happens. any recommendations on how to have that conversation? |
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I hear you on the taking care of myself and those who are likely to survive first. I am a realist. In reality, both grandfathers are in bad enough shape that they wouldn't last long. Only one grandma is really in good shape. My primary concerns would be my mother and my wife. My mom is in good shape she just had a random virus attack her heart and has to take medication now. The good news is that one of the family members would be a doctor. thanks for your replies. I would like to get others involved but I just don't know if they will be on board until something tangible happens. any recommendations on how to have that conversation? well for me, i just did what i wanted to do without my wife caring. then one day, she decided that she wanted to be prepared. her decision was influenced by a winter storm that knocked out power for 5 days. I wouldnt leave, so i made her stay here without heat or hot water or power or tv for the whole time. A week later and we had the genny and the woodburner of my choice and on her dime. now we have a full basement pantry and the full compliment of prepper stuff and she even has her own AR. it can happen for you, just takes some time. there is a woman on youtube known as patriotnurse. watch this vid here and the many more she has made. i hope it helps you. |
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people who are sick in SHTF - patriot nurse channel
this is a good one to watch. if you need meds, get em now. |
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the above info has very good points. you wont be prepping for 10-12 long term. I'm sorry to break it to you this way, but in reality several of those on meds will die. prep for the strong ones. Wow you're a ray of sunshine!  As a family man, you prep for all you can. the sick (his wife included) may die but that my friend is out of his hands. Prep to survive with all those you love. TEOTWAWKI may happen tomorrow but more likely it will be a much less catastrophic event. Great Depression comes to mind. Write off your lived ones and they will write you off if the tables turn.
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Quoted: I hate to break it to you, but those on serious meds during a TEOTWAWKI will die. I'm not writing anyone off. I am being truthful to myself and the OP. The OP is talking about a life changing event, not a thunderstorm.
Quoted: the above info has very good points. you wont be prepping for 10-12 long term. I'm sorry to break it to you this way, but in reality several of those on meds will die. prep for the strong ones. Wow you're a ray of sunshine! As a family man, you prep for all you can. the sick (his wife included) may die but that my friend is out of his hands. Prep to survive with all those you love. TEOTWAWKI may happen tomorrow but more likely it will be a much less catastrophic event. Great Depression comes to mind. Write off your lived ones and they will write you off if the tables turn. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I hate to break it to you, but those on serious meds during a TEOTWAWKI will die. I'm not writing anyone off. I am being truthful to myself and the OP. The OP is talking about a life changing event, not a thunderstorm. Quoted: the above info has very good points. you wont be prepping for 10-12 long term. I'm sorry to break it to you this way, but in reality several of those on meds will die. prep for the strong ones. Wow you're a ray of sunshine! As a family man, you prep for all you can. the sick (his wife included) may die but that my friend is out of his hands. Prep to survive with all those you love. TEOTWAWKI may happen tomorrow but more likely it will be a much less catastrophic event. Great Depression comes to mind. Write off your lived ones and they will write you off if the tables turn.reality is a 15 inch by 36 inch long pill to swallow.... OP. if you are serious about preparing for whatever, talk with your loved ones. communicate. If not it will be twice as hard ,let alone the cost. Provide and protect who you can...YOUR family 1st..........then go from there |
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This is good newsQuoted:
The good news is that one of the family members would be a doctor. Any chance the doctor would be on board? Extra meds, extra care, etc? There is no way that he would start writing prescriptions now. If there is some sort of a meltdown I can see him helping out. The question is whether or not it would be too late. |
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I have the following major concerns: -I have two grandparents a couple hundred miles away in the opposite direction of the BOL. One of them is very sick. I have another set of grandparents right next to the BOL. One of them is also very sick. My mother happens to be on a lot of medication for her heart and my wife has asthma that needs to be controlled with medication. How in the hell do you stock up on medication? Am I going to have to raid a hostpital or pharmacy if it gets bad enough? Touch situation. The problem w/ most meds is that they don't store very long. So even if you manage to get a doc to give you a years worth and/or you loot a pharmacy, if it's TEOTWAWKI, those on meds aren't likely to survive long unless they can find a natural alternative, if any exist. There are many meds that last for a very long time, others not so much. This is not a statement that can be generalized. You need to know what each med is and how/what happens as it gets close to expiration. Some drugs just lose potency near end of life while others like expired tetracyclines become extremely toxic. With regard to long term storage you must first know which ones are safe to store and then how to store them. Most drugs do best in a cool, dark, dry environment although some lose potency when refridgerated or frozen. You need to get a med list for each person that you are worried about and get the data on each drug. Any pharmacy can easily print this list for each patient. I would research each medication and have a conversation with the dispensing pharmacist. Most 3rd party insurance companies will allow refills 3-5 days early. Doing this for a year will get you at least 1 extra month of prescriptions at only the cost of an additional copay. Most if not all of them also allow 1 override fill for lost meds or an early fill for a vacation. Get an early fill for a "vacation" and then start filling early and within a year you will have an extra couple months of Rxs. Communication with your pharmacy is the key to getting this done. IMHO you will be most likely to get help in this arena by doing business at an independent pharmacy that is run by the owner. Letting them know what you are doing you do run the risk of them thinking you are a survival nut but as long as these are maintainence medications and not opiates or benzodiazepines you shouldn't have any issues. They want happy customers and it is an increase in business. If you are helping grandparents that are depression era survivors you can downplay the "survival" mentality by saying it puts their mind at ease having an extra month or two of medications in the cabinet with our current state of economy. I would even throw in an Obama comment at that point. If you are dealing with a locally owned pharmacy you run a pretty good chance of getting a like minded pharmacist given that they are a business owner and healthcare professional. If grandma and grandpa are getting their meds from a big box retailer go find an independent pharmacy in their AO. Go in and talk to the owner and explain that you are trying to find a pharmacy that you know will take care of them. They will be appreciative of the new business and will be likely to remember you as the helpful grandkid that got them the business. This is a big deal when you are calling trying to figure out something for them and Wally world says you aren't on their list of approved people to talk to. Delivery service is something that a lot of seniors like and a service that big box stores don't offer. Disclaimer-I am in the pharmacy business and manage a 3rd generation small chain of pharmacies. Just in case I didn't say it enough DO BUSINESS WITH A LOCALLY OWNED PHARMACY! Most people assume Rx's are cheaper @ big box stores and it couldn't be farther from the truth. I have done 2 interviews with news stations in the past year after customers from big chains called to report big differences in Sam's, Wal-Mart, and Walgreens. Our price was $13 for something they were paying $98 for @ Sams. If you have insurance or Medicare Part D the insurance company tells the pharmacy the copay price, there is a 99% chance it is the same price no matter where you go! Think of like doing business with a local gun shop vs Bass Pro. ETA- Where in KS or are these people located and I will help you find a good pharmacy. Grove |
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. How in the hell do you stock up on medication? ! My wife also has asthma and needs meds. She ALWAYS fills all the meds every 3 months by mail and gets 3 months of meds, then she uses them only when she absolutely needs them. Over 4 years she has a varied supply stored and still storing more. |