[ARCHIVED THREAD] - End of Real Gas? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/20/2011 6:01:28 PM EDT
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If this is old news-sorry.
I am one of those who use real gas whenever possible for several reasons. Today while paying for my purchase, the owner of the store looked at me and said, "February the 14th". I looked at him and he said, "The end of real gas". He went on to say that the Fed.Gov. has passed a new regulation that all gas sold by the 14th of Feb. must contain at least 10% ethanol. He said that he checked with distributors and all confirmed the infomation. If so, having the junk fuel in our vehicles is bad enough, but storing the junk fuel as I understand will be more complicated. The owner stated that storing the 10% (or more) fuel will require adding a stabilazier to it much more ofter than regular (real) gas. I know that many of you have already studied this out so what is the recommended way for treatment/rotation for said fuel? And in items that are not run often? Thanks. |
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Quoted:
If this is old news-sorry. I am one of those who use real gas whenever possible for several reasons. Today while paying for my purchase, the owner of the store looked at me and said, "February the 14th". I looked at him and he said, "The end of real gas". He went on to say that the Fed.Gov. has passed a new regulation that all gas sold by the 14th of Feb. must contain at least 10% ethonal. He said that he checked with distributors and all confirmed the infomation. If so, having the junk fuel in our vehicles is bad enough, but storing the junk fuel as I understand will be more complacated. The owner stated that storing the 10% (or more) fuel will require adding a stabilazier to it much more ofter than regular (real) gas. I know that many of you have already studied this out so what is the recommended way for treatment/rotation for said fuel? And in items that are not run often? Thanks. Toilets, light bulbs, drilling in the Gulf, gasoline, fuck the federal governement. This is not what this country was intended to be. |
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I hate the extra rattle noise of diesels but damn I'm tempted to switch to a diesel.
This ethanol forced down our throats is bullshit feel good regualations with the insidious crap of welfare for corngrowers. Corn belong on the god damned dinner table or feeding our livestock and not wasted in making an inferior fuel. |
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Quoted: I hate the extra rattle noise of diesels but damn I'm tempted to switch to a diesel. This ethanol forced down our throats is bullshit feel good regualations with the insidious crap of welfare for corngrowers. Corn belong on the god damned dinner table or feeding our livestock and not wasted in making an inferior fuel. They're ruining diesel too  Is this reg. confirmed? Ethanol sucks so much water out of the air during our humid summers you can watch water pour out of exhaust pipes... |
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If this is old news-sorry. I am one of those who use real gas whenever possible for several reasons. Today while paying for my purchase, the owner of the store looked at me and said, "February the 14th". I looked at him and he said, "The end of real gas". He went on to say that the Fed.Gov. has passed a new regulation that all gas sold by the 14th of Feb. must contain at least 10% ethonal. He said that he checked with distributors and all confirmed the infomation. If so, having the junk fuel in our vehicles is bad enough, but storing the junk fuel as I understand will be more complacated. The owner stated that storing the 10% (or more) fuel will require adding a stabilazier to it much more ofter than regular (real) gas. I know that many of you have already studied this out so what is the recommended way for treatment/rotation for said fuel? And in items that are not run often? Thanks. Toilets, light bulbs, drilling in the Gulf, gasoline, fuck the federal governement. This is not what this country was intended to be. We, the Sheeple, voted for the socialists who are happily destroying every aspect of our economy so they can steal the country all the more easily. Pretty amazing how all the nutty policies have clicked in to slowly destroy us and the Sheeple are completely oblivious to it. Man, when things reach a critical mass it's going to go fast, I hope I'm not nearby to see it... Oh, wait... 
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Hopefully someone knowledgeable will chime in about storage. I read a bunch of threads about the ethanol crap and long term storage previously, and if I recall correctly––-
I thought they said the gas/ethanol mix seperates over time and you end up with 87 octane gas going down to about 84 octane. For long term storage I have been buying 93 octane gas in the winter (higher butane content for better starts), and then adding stabiliser and storing it in tightly sealed containers. I keep it for approximately one year, and then dump it in the wife's flex-fuel vehicle (runs fine) while rotating it out. I rotate the entire stock every winter. I could be full of crap, but that was what I recollected about the subject. No problems so far... 
I would like to see some definitive answer about this topic as well. I have a delivery of brand new MFCs scheduled for tomorrow, and I intend to fill 'em up quickly. I'm also looking at using some larger tanks to sock away some more gas and diesel. |
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I wasn't confident with Sta-bil and the E10, so I'm testing this product now.
Star Tron Also, looking at the next vehicle we purchase being a diesel. |
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I work in a powersports dealership, and we have been dealing with the insidious effects of ethanol for years. Here's what I know: fuel-injected engines are less affected than carbureted engines, and 4-strokes are affected less than 2-strokes. The ethanol absorbes moisture from the air and phaze-separates out of the gas in as little as 2 weeks, causing a lean condition which can melt the piston in 2-strokes. Adding dry-gas (more alcohol) exacerbates the problem. Four-stroke motors are not prone to this, but the ethanol and absorbed moisture cause corrosion, especially in the carburetor's needle and seat, which sticks the needle and seat either closed (no gas = no run) or open (fuel pisses through the carb, flooding engine and emptying fuel tank on the ground). Carbs need to be cleaned more often, and needle/seats need replacing more often. Fuel- injected vehicles seem to be handling the ethanol much better. My recommendation is to stabilize all stored fuel, including fuel used in engines which are not run everyday (boat motors, snowmobiles, motorcycles, atvs) especially if carbureted, and double especially when 2-stroke and carbureted. Stabilize fuel used for everyday running of smaller engines and all carbureted applications. Use a stabilizer that has the word "ethanol" on the label, such as StaBil Marine Formula -the blue stuff. Red StaBil won't work for these problems. Feel free to double up on stabilizer, you cant over- stabilize (within reason). On generators, dirt bikes, etc. You will still probably need to drain the stale fuel from the carb bowl to get your engine started. Store generators, bikes, etc. With full tanks, stabilized fuel, be sure to run the motor long enough for stabilized fuel to reach the carbs, then top off the tanks with more stabilized gas to eliminate as much airspece as possible. After a year, drain all stored fuel from tanks and pour into your fuel-injected car's gas tank, it will burn fine. You can also revitalize old fuel by adding octane booster. Some people stabilize with StarTron or other enzyme-based products. I don't use them, so I can't personally recommend.
Hope this helps somebody. |
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I work in a powersports dealership, and we have been dealing with the insidious effects of ethanol for years. Here's what I know: fuel-injected engines are less affected than carbureted engines, and 4-strokes are affected less than 2-strokes. The ethanol absorbes moisture from the air and phaze-separates out of the gas in as little as 2 weeks, causing a lean condition which can melt the piston in 2-strokes. Adding dry-gas (more alcohol) exacerbates the problem. Four-stroke motors are not prone to this, but the ethanol and absorbed moisture cause corrosion, especially in the carburetor's needle and seat, which sticks the needle and seat either closed (no gas = no run) or open (fuel pisses through the carb, flooding engine and emptying fuel tank on the ground). Carbs need to be cleaned more often, and needle/seats need replacing more often. Fuel- injected vehicles seem to be handling the ethanol much better. My recommendation is to stabilize all stored fuel, including fuel used in engines which are not run everyday (boat motors, snowmobiles, motorcycles, atvs) especially if carbureted, and double especially when 2-stroke and carbureted. Stabilize fuel used for everyday running of smaller engines and all carbureted applications. Use a stabilizer that has the word "ethanol" on the label, such as StaBil Marine Formula -the blue stuff. Red StaBil won't work for these problems. Feel free to double up on stabilizer, you cant over- stabilize (within reason). On generators, dirt bikes, etc. You will still probably need to drain the stale fuel from the carb bowl to get your engine started. Store generators, bikes, etc. With full tanks, stabilized fuel, be sure to run the motor long enough for stabilized fuel to reach the carbs, then top off the tanks with more stabilized gas to eliminate as much airspece as possible. After a year, drain all stored fuel from tanks and pour into your fuel-injected car's gas tank, it will burn fine. You can also revitalize old fuel by adding octane booster. Some people stabilize with StarTron or other enzyme-based products. I don't use them, so I can't personally recommend. Hope this helps somebody. This! We've been stuck with ethanol for a few years all ready here. After a couple of false starts, I do the above. It's worked for my seasonal uses (ATV/Snowmobiles) The Marine (blue/green) Stabil works here. GL, Eric |
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All's I know is that this shit gas has destroyed my gas blower and trimmer. That shit gas makes the fuel lines brittle. I replaced them but now I can't get either one to run.  Yep. I really really really DO NOT WANT to run this ethanol spiked gas in my small engines including the lawn mower.
I wonder if Avgas would be an alternative? |
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Some of the companies that make fuel for race cars are branching out into specialized small engine fuels. SEF Fuels is one of them.
My '69 Mustang hates ethanol. Unfortunately the local gas station that used to sell fuel w/o ethanol stopped last month. |
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For long term storage I have been buying 93 octane gas in the winter (higher butane content for better starts),... I could be full of crap, but that was what I recollected about the subject. No problems so far...
This part is not quite right. Lower octane fuel will offer better starts in winter as it burns faster and is easier to ignite. I haven't really seen too many problems from the ethanol. Lower fuel mileage in my car (24-25 on real gas, 21 on ethanol laced fuel) and I've had to clean the carbs out on my motorcycles more frequently. Oh wait, I never cleaned them out before. 
Oh, and some fuel lines get brittle, but at least on small engines like lawnmowers and motorcycles, that's easy to fix. Even Al Gore has admitted that ethanol isn't working. I guess too many people are making big bucks on it. Az |
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I was pulling a trailer on a trip the other day and was getting pretty good gas mileage. Then I filled up at a SAM's the mileage went to hell, down to about 10 from 12 or a little better.
I was going 'uphill' at the time on the return trip though. When I got the good mileage I was heading south, down over the earth's surface towards the equator. When I headed back [north, upwards toward the north pole] that's when my mileage went to crap. |
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All's I know is that this shit gas has destroyed my gas blower and trimmer. That shit gas makes the fuel lines brittle. I replaced them but now I can't get either one to run. Yep. I really really really DO NOT WANT to run this ethanol spiked gas in my small engines including the lawn mower.
I wonder if Avgas would be an alternative? I don't know. I would try it if I could find some. |
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Some of the companies that make fuel for race cars are branching out into specialized small engine fuels. SEF Fuels is one of them. My '69 Mustang hates ethanol. Unfortunately the local gas station that used to sell fuel w/o ethanol stopped last month. Now THIS is what I'm talkin' about! I'd love to get some for my bike. It absolutely HATES this ethonal shit. |
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I was pulling a trailer on a trip the other day and was getting pretty good gas mileage. Then I filled up at a SAM's the mileage went to hell, down to about 10 from 12 or a little better. I was going 'uphill' at the time on the return trip though. When I got the good mileage I was heading south, down over the earth's surface towards the equator. When I headed back [north, upwards toward the north pole] that's when my mileage went to crap. That's why Santa has to plan his going home fill-ups very carefuly. 
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This ethanol forced down our throats is bullshit feel good regualations with the insidious crap of welfare for corngrowers. Corn belong on the god damned dinner table or feeding our livestock and not wasted in making an inferior fuel.
Forgot whiskey, and the process to make corn alcohol is an energy waster to make, in places like Brazil, they use sugar cane, it is easier and cheaper to convert. |
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All's I know is that this shit gas has destroyed my gas blower and trimmer. That shit gas makes the fuel lines brittle. I replaced them but now I can't get either one to run. Yep. I really really really DO NOT WANT to run this ethanol spiked gas in my small engines including the lawn mower.
I wonder if Avgas would be an alternative? 100LL avgas (low lead, low altitude) is straight gasoline, the FAA will not approve ethanol for aviation use last time I heard. It is dyed off-road fuel (green) so don't use it on the road. The long term plan is to phaze out 100LL as the older general aviation aircraft repower with diesel recips or gas turbines. There's a shitload of Lycoming OM360s powering most light aircraft, so it may buy some time. Ops |
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This ethanol forced down our throats is bullshit feel good regualations with the insidious crap of welfare for corngrowers. Corn belong on the god damned dinner table or feeding our livestock and not wasted in making an inferior fuel.
Forgot whiskey, and the process to make corn alcohol is an energy waster to make, in places like Brazil, they use sugar cane, it is easier and cheaper to convert. Damn, as a bourbon drinker I will have some Wild Turkey and ask for forgiveness. |
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100LL avgas (low lead, low altitude) is straight gasoline, the FAA will not approve ethanol for aviation use last time I heard. It is dyed off-road fuel (green) so don't use it on the road. The long term plan is to phaze out 100LL as the older general aviation aircraft repower with diesel recips or gas turbines. There's a shitload of Lycoming OM360s powering most light aircraft, so it may buy some time. Ops Good to know. Thanks, Ops. |
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Some of the companies that make fuel for race cars are branching out into specialized small engine fuels. SEF Fuels is one of them. I'm hoping the SEF Fuels stuff stays as the absolute last option. It's $11 a gallon locally.
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Quoted: Quoted: 100LL avgas (low lead, low altitude) is straight gasoline, the FAA will not approve ethanol for aviation use last time I heard. It is dyed off-road fuel (green) so don't use it on the road. The long term plan is to phaze out 100LL as the older general aviation aircraft repower with diesel recips or gas turbines. There's a shitload of Lycoming OM360s powering most light aircraft, so it may buy some time. Ops Good to know. Thanks, Ops. Beat by OPS. 100LL is actually blue, and 130 is green. For some years the good thing going for the weekend racers was to get 5 gallons of avgas for their racing. The feds lowered the banhammer on that practice about 15 years ago. So now you will probably have some difficulty buying avgas if you do not have a plane. |
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It's going to get worse. 
EPA approves more ethanol in fuel for cars WASHINGTON –– Nearly two thirds of drivers could have more corn-based ethanol in their fuel tanks under an Environmental Protection Agency decision Friday. The agency said that 15 percent ethanol blended with gasoline is safe for cars and light-duty trucks manufactured between 2001 and 2006, expanding an October decision that the higher blend is safe for cars built since 2007.The maximum gasoline blend has been 10 percent ethanol. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/21/AR2011012103163.html |
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My decade old tanaka trimmer, commercial version, kind of puked this fall due to ethanol fuel. Replaced fuel lines and I was fine with that but it won't run at all and I am going to just tear it apart and see if it ate part of the fuel line or not. My fuel lines went soft and squishy. I kind of figure I have parts of the fuel line in the carb or something maybe. I kind of expect some folks to be having major issues with older gasoline mowers, tractors, and street legal vehicles if this hits. Right now I can find 100% gas and stick to that but if it disappears then it disappears. |
| I bought a Stihl trimmer because I wanted to best and it would last forever. The trimmer is 3 years old and I had the carb replaced last year because it was ate up by the new fuel. The tech where I purchased it and had it fixed told me that he sees the 2 strokes all the time. He told me to keep the good sta-bil in ALL my gas no matter what kind of equipment the fuel was used for. |
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I will have to look at Star Tron. I will have to look at something! Yes, 15% is coming. I guess there is now no reason to purchase the red Sta-Bil if it will not help the "new" fuel.
So my riding mower that has the red Sta-bil in it for winter storage and my generator that is run for its 20 minute general purpose run every so often needs to have something else treating the fuel? Thanks for the infomation all. |
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I haven't had an major problems running ethanol gas. I buy non ethanol for the 2stroke engines when I think about it but more often than not, I run ethanol gas. Seems to work fine for me. However, I put PRI G in any storage gas as well as lawnmower, weedeater, and chainsaw gas. I also keep the gas stored in well sealed containers. That's the read secret. Use good containers that keep moisture out and you should be fine. Boaters are having trouble with ethanol because they use ethanol around water and are careless about letting moisture into their fuels.
I've stored PRI G treated gas in good jerry cans. I've stored it up to 2 years and it smelled and worked as good as it did when I filled it. |
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That crap is blowing up snowmobiles left and right up here. This idiocy has cost individuals countless dollars. Which we'll no doubt extract back from them in some form or other when the time comes. This shit is starting to get old. Edited to add - I will bet you my left nut that some dipshit advisor in the white house is downright thrilled at the prospect of killing off 50 million or so pieces of gas-powered equipment. Not because they're a tree-hugger, but because it will necessitate the replacement of the equipment, thus goosing the GDP numbers a bit. They're frantic to do things that will let them screw with the numbers a bit. If you think this nonsense is bad now, wait a year or two. |
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Quoted: I wasn't confident with Sta-bil and the E10, so I'm testing this product now. Star Tron Also, looking at the next vehicle we purchase being a diesel. That stuff's supposed to be pretty good, better than Sta-bil. Info comes from a small engine mechanic friend of mine. |
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I wasn't confident with Sta-bil and the E10, so I'm testing this product now. Star Tron Also, looking at the next vehicle we purchase being a diesel. That stuff's supposed to be pretty good, better than Sta-bil. Info comes from a small engine mechanic friend of mine. What does he base his recommendation on? The MSDS for it doesn't give me much confidence for it vs snake oil: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1141229&page=1 |
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Quoted: Quoted: 100LL avgas (low lead, low altitude) is straight gasoline, the FAA will not approve ethanol for aviation use last time I heard. It is dyed off-road fuel (green) so don't use it on the road. The long term plan is to phaze out 100LL as the older general aviation aircraft repower with diesel recips or gas turbines. There's a shitload of Lycoming OM360s powering most light aircraft, so it may buy some time. Ops Good to know. Thanks, Ops. 100LL is not sensor-safe, and thus not usable in modern vehicles (anything EFI, that relies on an O2 sensor). Remember, General aviation is just recently and slowly adopting EFI. Cars have had what the aviation industry calls 'FADEC' since 1987 or so.... |
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If the loss of neutrons by the first three processes is less than the surplus produced by the fourth, the chain reaction occurs; otherwise it does not. This is often expressed numerically as the neutron multiplication factor, k, where: k = f - l With f being the average number of neutrons undergoing fission capture, and l represents the average sum of neutron loss mechanisms 1, 2, and 3 above. Any one of the first three loss processes may have such a high probability in a given arrangement that the extra neutrons created by fission will be insufficient to keep the reaction going. For example, should it turn out that the non-fission capture by uranium has a much higher probability than fission capture, there would presumably be no possibility of achieving a chain reaction. If the number of neutrons causing fissions is decreasing with time, the reactor is called subcritical. If the number is constant with time, the reactor is called critical, and if the number is increasing with time, it is called supercritical. The criticality state of the reactor is represented by Keff (K-effective), where Keff is the number of neutrons in one generation divided by the number of neutrons in the previous generation. I'm glad I watched Back To The Future about 10 times. I got this shit all figured out.......  Seriously, the regulating and subsidies have to stop. This stupid idea that Ethanol is helping is so dumb, it's actually costing us billions for nothing. We need to use what we have available now while we work on a way to fuel or vehicles in the future. Using Ethanol is about as smart as trying to brun clean coal. How much does Ethanol really cost?
Real Cost For A Gallon Of Corn Ethanol Corn Ethanol Futures Market quote for January 2011 Delivery $2.46 Add cost of transporting, storing and blending corn ethanol $0.28 Added cost of making gasoline that can be blended with corn ethanol $0.09 Add cost of subsidies paid to blender $0.45 Total Direct Costs per Gallon $3.28 Added cost from waste $0.40 Added cost from damage to infrastructure and user's engine $0.06 Total Indirect Costs per Gallon $0.46 Added cost of lost energy $1.27 Added cost of food (American family of four) $1.79 Total Social Costs $3.06 Total Cost of Corn Ethanol @ 85% Blend $6.80 http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/101494/20110116/here-is-how-the-ethanol-subsidy-scam-is-screwing-americans-and-corn-consumers-globally.htm |
