Posted: 8/18/2010 11:58:02 AM EDT
| Has anyone toyed with the idea of building a windmill? I'm thinking about using an alternator with voltage regulator as the basis for it. Has anyone else tried. What kind of results did you achieve? Design problems, lessons learned? Thanks |
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Another engineer I work with was just given one, we haven't yet tinkered with it.
It's a Ford or Chevy alternator bolted to a square tube steel frame, and the frame has a tail to keep it pointed in the wind. The blades are made of PVC, which is easy, but they suck. The previous owner used it for a while then got a different setup We asked if the wires had ever become tangled around the main vertical support and he said no. That's all I remember right now. |
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I'm looking at a alternator that has an internal voltage regulator. That I think would get rid of some of the headaches. I think I can scrounge a old chicken house ventilation fan that measures approx 42" across. you want an older Chevy/GMC alt then. they should be cheap at any auto parts store. you will have to pay a "core charge" that you wont get back unless you find a junked matching alt. |
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I thought about building one until I started reading about the complex internals of wind turbines and how they interact with battery banks.
I decided to buy these instead: 
Sophisticated internal battery charge regulator –– The Air X charge controller periodically stops charging, reads the battery voltage, compares it to the voltage setting and if the battery is charged, it completely shuts off all current going to the battery. This function is performed within a few milliseconds. The closer the battery is to reaching its full state of charge, the more often the Air X circuit repeats this action. This means any size battery bank from 25 to 25,000 amp hours or higher can be charged safely. When the battery has reached its charged state, the Air X will slow to an almost complete stop. Only when the battery has dropped below its voltage set point will it startup and resume charging. |
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Google Hugh Piggot...he is the inventor of the axail flux wind generators...buy one of his" how too" manuals and check out the "OtherPower.com" web site, very extenise web site, they have several they have built borrowing from Hugh Piggott's designs... they have a good home brew manual too...get both.. ( Hugh's and Otherpower's".you wont go wrong....go to you tube and watch their videos
Dont fool around with car alternators...not worth the effort here is my 11 footer axail flux after I balanced the blades: 
A test raise of my tower before mounting the generator on it: 
Up and flying at 60 feet: 
Upgrading to a 3-6KW machine currently building....here are the blades for it....a 17 foot swept area: 
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Here is a good DIY site. They cover other aspects of off grid power and water systems.
http://otherpower.com/ They even have a steam genny setup. |
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historygradstudent -
You seem to have a pretty good handle on things, judged solely upon the fact that your pics show a really sweet windmill already working and some beautiful blades made for the next one. I don't know if I've missed your posts before...but I'd be happy to see some more of your work and get some more information/how to stuff from you (a dedicated thread? <hint hint>). I know the physics/technical aspects can be gleaned online, I'm more interested in your opinions and "been there done that" perspective. I'm sure a bunch of other folks would be interested too. Looks awesome...keep us updated on the new windmill -Marty |
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Google Hugh Piggot...he is the inventor of the axail flux wind generators...buy one of his" how too" manuals and check out the "OtherPower.com" web site, very extenise web site, they have several they have built borrowing from Hugh Piggott's designs... they have a good home brew manual too...get both.. ( Hugh's and Otherpower's".you wont go wrong....go to you tube and watch their videos Dont fool around with car alternators...not worth the effort here is my 11 footer axail flux after I balanced the blades: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/011-2.jpg A test raise of my tower before mounting the generator on it: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/072.jpg Up and flying at 60 feet: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/078.jpg Upgrading to a 3-6KW machine currently building....here are the blades for it....a 17 foot swept area: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/Image0128.jpg win The alternator off a car concept isn't efficient for windmills, they require too high of an RPM to reach effeciency levels. Axial flux generators operate more efficiently at lower rpms, which works well for windmills, and waterwheels. they also would work well with lister engines or PTO tractors. HGS, where does Hughs manual recommend getting the magnets? Does he give any examples of where to scavage them? What components are you "upgrading" to get to the 3-6kw level. |
| So, you watched "The Colony" this week and decided to build one? Waite until next week and see how theirs turns out and it would be much easier for us to scavange the parts now then to find them later. The concern I have is just how they will regulate the speed of fan but yea a wind or even water powered alternator is an option. Heck, I was even wondering if a wood or coal stove with a boiler could create steam to turn an alternator to generate power too but boilers and high pressure steam is something I really DO NOT want to mess with! |
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Hi Marty,
dont get pulled into making a machine with more than three blades...there is a athing called a Bentz ( spelling) limit....the power from a wind generator can easily be calculated with some math...there is no magic concepts involed in wind generation....lots of hype out there trying to get your hard earned money...but very few reliable sources. In the world of wind generators there are about 5-6 web sites I trust solely. OF coruse there is Hugh Piggot's web site,....he's the father of the axial flux concepts... he lives on a scottish Island without any power, except what his wind generator can make...been doing it for years.Here are some links: Soraig wind I would strongly reccommend you buy this manual before building one...its about 12 bucks...invaluableRecipe book Of course there is the Other Power web site They have a good disccusion forum about wind generators....there are some very knowlegable folks in there.....at times a few folks can be somewhat rough around the edges, but they are old timeres in this filed and have seen a lot of hype and zany ideas come through....these guys are from American, Africa, England France,Germany and Austrailia....mostly Americans, Aussies & Brits: A darn good wind generator forum! Of course there is Otherpower's build page too....many successes and failures...this can save you tons of time...they have beaten the trial and error out of axial flux generators. Scroll down towards the pics of the windmills...they are links... click on them and they will show you the build process and the power they can generate without tons of hype!These guys are off grid in Colorado! They also have a manual...I would get it too....Hugh's book and this one compliments each other...well worth it...the otherpower manual is about 330 pages long...a good read! The Otherpower manual is essentially where I got my 17 footer plans from....you can also see it from their web site too. All together I have about 200 dollars in magnet wire and about 400 dollars in magnets for the 17 foot generator....Other than that, if you have a good access to cheap steel a wind generator can be failry easy and cheap to build... if you can weld you're in good shape...the tower will take a bit more effort than the generator does...it takes some time to build one...all of this stuff is covered in both manuals 
Here is a guy who has a 17 foot rotor in the build processyou tube video....you dont need the magnet holder he's using....the steel plates are 18 inches in diameter and 1/2 inch thick....be careful with these kinds of magnets they are extremly pwerful and can crush your hand if the two rotors were able to slam together. The hub which everything mounts to is an ordinary 6000 trailer hub. It takes some time to build one...a ten footer is realtively easy to build but a 17 footer requires much, much more work...for example I can whip out three blades in a day for a ten footer but a 17 footer ...you might get one blade made in a day...the tower is also much more work...you need better anchors for it...more concrete or heavy deadman's buried. Here is the stator for the 17 foote before casting it in fiberglass resin...its 22 inches in diameter: 
Building the stator 
The generator frame for the 17 footer, the upright piece of pipe is 4 inch schedule 40 
More pipe to reinforce the current tower in the background...  ..its alot of effort to reinforce a tower which use to have a 11 footer flying vs a 17footer...I'm also making the gin pole longer for better leverage...I use a wire rope hoist to lift it...I dont want to be dependant on any form of elecrtical power to raise the tower.....a wire rope hoist is also known as a tirfor...its like a comealong on steroids.
These things can be built in your backyard! But the best output from any windgenrator is determined by two things: blade swept area, because as blade size increase so does your rotors and stator...it essentially can make more power! if you double the blade size, the accompanying increases in sizes eleswere will make 4 TIMES MORE POWER! Also getting it up in good clean wind, without distrbances from other structures such as buldings, trees etc. All the best! |
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So, you watched "The Colony" this week and decided to build one? Waite until next week and see how theirs turns out and it would be much easier for us to scavange the parts now then to find them later. The concern I have is just how they will regulate the speed of fan but yea a wind or even water powered alternator is an option. Heck, I was even wondering if a wood or coal stove with a boiler could create steam to turn an alternator to generate power too but boilers and high pressure steam is something I really DO NOT want to mess with! The battery bank regulates the wind generator...the battery bank essentially "clamps" the incoming voltage but its essential to wind the stator to match your battery bank voltage! If you make a surplus of power you use a cheap dump load controller to run the excess power to something like a series of resistors ...some people use the excess power to make hot water, by hooking them up to water heater elements |
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So, you watched "The Colony" this week and decided to build one? Waite until next week and see how theirs turns out and it would be much easier for us to scavange the parts now then to find them later. The concern I have is just how they will regulate the speed of fan but yea a wind or even water powered alternator is an option. Heck, I was even wondering if a wood or coal stove with a boiler could create steam to turn an alternator to generate power too but boilers and high pressure steam is something I really DO NOT want to mess with! The battery bank regulates the wind generator...the battery bank essentially "clamps" the incoming voltage but its essential to wind the stator to match your battery bank voltage! If you make a surplus of power you use a cheap dump load controller to run the excess power to something like a series of resistors ...some people use the excess power to make hot water, by hooking them up to water heater elements have you considered using a telephone pole? |
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Yes I have thought about using a telephone pole, but I dont like to climb....most generators need to be at least 40 feet off the ground, or at least 30 feet above anything within 300 feet...always the higher the better with wind generators.
I used some 4 inch schedule 40 pipe with guy wires...I can raise and lower it with the jin pole...its nice not to have to climb up 60, 80 or even 100 feet....you should at least lowerer the tower once a year and service the generator...paint the blades, regrease the bearing, check the cleareance between the magnets and stator....retighten bolts/nuts etc.sometinh thats hard to do at those heights! |
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Yes I have thought about using a telephone pole, but I dont like to climb....most generators need to be at least 40 feet off the ground, or at least 30 feet above anything within 300 feet...always the higher the better with wind generators. I used some 4 inch schedule 40 pipe with guy wires...I can raise and lower it with the jin pole...its nice not to have to climb up 60, 80 or even 100 feet....you should at least lowerer the tower once a year and service the generator...paint the blades, regrease the bearing, check the cleareance between the magnets and stator....retighten bolts/nuts etc.sometinh thats hard to do at those heights! Those are very good points. Are you using the 4 inch for the 17ft? What do you anticipate being able to power with the 17 ft, that you were not with the 11? I've been in the "learning phase" of this project for about a year now. I'm looking forward to getting on with the "doing" portion Nicely done by the way |
| Learning and reading, thanks for the input. Tried watching "Colony" the first episode and just couldn't get over how contrived it seemed, haven't watched since. I'm hoping to use a windmill to help along my Harbor Freight solar panels. We had a storm the other day and during the cloudy weather I noticed how little the solar panel was putting out. I also noticed how hard the wind was blowing so I thought, damn I wish I had a windmill.... |
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It all depeneds on your site...if you have a good wind site. the 17 footer could possibly run an energy effiecnet home as they say at the otherpower web site.
I live in the upstate of SC, often considered a low wind site...but I live in an area in which the land around me falls off 4- 8 miles in a 270 degree arc, the other 90 degrees is above the tree line...better than most areas. Well what can you run with it?. several lights....use cfc's less pull on the battery bank and the inverter microwave flat scree tv( use these they consume much less power than those older type tv's) computer refrigerator power tools such as a drill and circular saw etc at the moment I use 8 golf cart batteries and simply burn off the excess power through a set of resistors configured for 1200 watts max...essentially when my dump is set for 28 volts it kicks in about once every three days on average for about 15 mins and the resistors essentally are a 1200 watt heater for about 15 mins. when I switch over to the 48 volt system on the 17 footer, I expect to burn at least three to four 60 watt CFC's continiously, the computer and modem about 10 hours a day, the microwave, say about 15 mins a day total, and the darn tv for about 6 hours a day and do things like run a metal saw in the garage, radio and a small bench top drill press....maybe with some left over power at the end of the day...keep in mind not all of these appliances are runnign at once! I only have a 2500 watt inverter...which can be expanded if I need too at a later date. Here is the 11 footer pumping out 30 amps during a thunder storm...at times it reached 40 amps, after the storm passed it was back down to 4-7 amps for dail averages: 
Consumption: for every 10 dollars that you spend on trying to generate power you can save that much by investing a dollar in conservation such as CFC bulbs, more insulation etc. etc. A wind generator is not an end to all your power consumption unless you meet two criteria: 1. You monitor your useage carefully and 2. you live in a good wind site you need to couple wind power with solar these folks seem to have good solar prices:Sun Electronics The tower will be upgraded, I would consider 6-8 inch scehdule 40 pipe as a minimum for a 17 footer...at the other power website I beleive they used a 10 or 11 gage tubing ( about 1/8 th wall thickness) for thier 17 footer I will use the pipe in the other photo to build/weld a triangular or "box" shaped lattice tower around the 4 inch schedule 40.....lots of fun & lots of work ahead... |
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Google Hugh Piggot...he is the inventor of the axail flux wind generators...buy one of his" how too" manuals and check out the "OtherPower.com" web site, very extenise web site, they have several they have built borrowing from Hugh Piggott's designs... they have a good home brew manual too...get both.. ( Hugh's and Otherpower's".you wont go wrong....go to you tube and watch their videos Dont fool around with car alternators...not worth the effort here is my 11 footer axail flux after I balanced the blades: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/011-2.jpg A test raise of my tower before mounting the generator on it: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/072.jpg Up and flying at 60 feet: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/078.jpg Upgrading to a 3-6KW machine currently building....here are the blades for it....a 17 foot swept area: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd227/historygradstu/Image0128.jpg win The alternator off a car concept isn't efficient for windmills, they require too high of an RPM to reach effeciency levels. Axial flux generators operate more efficiently at lower rpms, which works well for windmills, and waterwheels. they also would work well with lister engines or PTO tractors. HGS, where does Hughs manual recommend getting the magnets? Does he give any examples of where to scavage them? What components are you "upgrading" to get to the 3-6kw level. Everything has to be upgraded in size...rotors, magnets wire coils...stator size. generator frame...Hugh builds a much more simpler machine with flat steel bars and angle iron, the otherpower folks like them a bit more prettier,...but Hugh has mostly straight cuts and a easier to build machine. The 11 footer weighs in at about 150 with blades...the 17 footer weighs in at about 400 lbs with blades I dont know where you could scrounge the magnets to build a wind generator...they are not cheap but they are not terribly expensive...on the 10-11 footer your magnet cost will be about 150 bucks on the 17 footer I spent 600 bucks on wire and magnets...but having power when everyone else doesnt and saving on the power bill each month is my end goal Here is where I buy my magnets from:magnet4less they are a good outfit and ship fast...no problems thus far...but remmebr these magnets are sppoky stuff...incredabliy powerful...on the 17 footer they can snatch a wrench out of your hand from 6-10 inches away easily! watch these videos first to make sure you want to get into buliding these things! powerful magnets! These are about the size magnets you will use on a ten footer they are one third the size of the magnets reqired for the 17 footer: smaller magnets that can still give you grief! Seperate them properly!seprating magnets part 1 part 2 Personally I dont use gloves...I can get a better grip without them! |