Posted: 3/22/2010 12:47:30 PM EDT
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Daughter lives in AZ. She's a student and has her own reliable car. I've been increasing her S.A. about the possibility of a Rodney King-type SHTF and what she should do or think about. She's 21 and we (so far) have the means to buy her an airline ticket out of town––IF there's enough warning.
She mentioned buying a gun but I'm not sure that's a good idea with her living in a house with a bunch of drunk college kids (she's the most responsible/grounded among them). If I did do the CCW route, are there any good schools/courses in the Phoenix metro area to send her to? If she can't fly out, her friends have parents up near Flagstaff and Payson. I thought Payson might be better––maybe fewer zombies will head into the boonies rather than right up the highway to Flag. I can probably get to her to get her out in a few day's time but PHX is NOT the place to be if the immigration thing boils over. I'm getting to having her keep a gas can at least in the house and some water jugs filled and standing by. Any criticisms or comments are very welcome. TC |
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. I can probably get to her to get her out in a few day's time but PHX is NOT the place to be if the immigration thing boils over. Did I miss something??? But as far as the planning in place, it sounds good. But if there is enough warning, why couldnt she just drive to your place instead of fly? |
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Rem. youth model 870 20ga. with a short barrel would be my choice.
She can store it broken down to keep the other roomates from finding it. Good on you for getting her thinking about things outside of her control. 2AA or 2C Maglite, small prybar, small sheath knife, maybe a Leatherman Juice multi-tool. The above can be stored in a gallon zip bag with spare batteries in the front pocket of her backpack. Bandana, gardening gloves and dustmasks along with a personal size FAK are good as well. |
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. If I did do the CCW route, are there any good schools/courses in the Phoenix metro area to send her to? IIRC Giles Stock lives/teaches in the area and there is nobody better to teach handgun (particularly a wheelgun). He might still teach a course through the local community college. I'm getting to having her keep a gas can at least in the house and some water jugs filled and standing by.
How is this going to be secured such that: 1) It's not a fire hazard ? 2) Does not smell up the house? 3) Is not used by a roommate so they can do a beer run, and never get's replenished? |
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Forrest––All good points about the gas storage.
Rudison––Thanks for the tips on the BOB. RedWagon––I'm hoping to be paranoid enough to get her out early. I'm basing my premise on a quick flare up (like Rodney King) that goes downhill so fast I can't get out there to drive her home and I don't want her heading out on I-40 across TX and OK (or even SW MO for that matter) alone. She's sharp and aware of what's going on in the world BUT, that's by college kid standards. She's busy with school and, frankly, her head isn't in the same place as mine––and certainly not as far ahead of the game as many here. Thanks again! TC |
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Quoted: Trust me it'll be hell getting out of PHX. There are not many ways out and I think heading up the I17 would be a nightmare. I feel like it's SHTF every time I head up north. If SHTF here I'm heading north east around lake Roosevelt. If I cannot get up the 17. Forrest––All good points about the gas storage. Rudison––Thanks for the tips on the BOB. RedWagon––I'm hoping to be paranoid enough to get her out early. I'm basing my premise on a quick flare up (like Rodney King) that goes downhill so fast I can't get out there to drive her home and I don't want her heading out on I-40 across TX and OK (or even SW MO for that matter) alone. She's sharp and aware of what's going on in the world BUT, that's by college kid standards. She's busy with school and, frankly, her head isn't in the same place as mine––and certainly not as far ahead of the game as many here. Thanks again! TC |
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-Don't buy her a gun unless you get her training too.
-There are lots of good LDS folks down there. We are set up with a great system. She could show up to churches in a disaster and they can help out. I- would work on an actual plan for different emergencies. It only costs time and a little paper and ink to print of some travel plans for scenarios. I recommend having 3 different places to go, and 3 different ways to get there. Have them numbered. If she needs to B.O. and you can get in contact with her you can say, "You need to use plan 2C (or whatever you cal the plans)." Having a dedicated plan could really help someone who is in a frightened/stressful state of mind. Consider places for her to hook up with friends,family, or even hotels. -Get her a contact list. This includes every way to get in contact with anyone/plase she may need. Include e-mail,landlines,cell, addresses, etc. Don't forget businesses that may be important as well as lodging. Everyone talks about the big nuclear holocaust, but maybe it is just an immigrant rally gone awry and driving to a hotel in Prescott for a weekend hanging out at the hotel is all she needs to keep safe and give you peace of mind. |
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Get her some training, buy or send her the money for a decently heavy safe and buy her a handgun. If her some of her college friends walk out with a 40 lb fireproof safe then they're not her friends and law enforcement can pay them a visit. Good call on the safe. Also OPSEC, don't let anyone about the gun or the safe. To echo as others have said, get her a BOB, contact list, A PLAN, and training. What about comms? A GPS? |
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Gabe Suarez is in Prescott, AZ. check out www.warriortalk.com for class schedules, etc.
the Phoenix valley is BIG. some areas may be densely populated, but many of the more outlying areas are probably not likely to be bothered by wetback riots or anything like that. i'm not familiar with the denser areas. CCW in a house full of other college kids is probably NOT a good idea, because at 21 i'm not expecting that she'll have it on her at all times. it'd probably be in the urse and get put down when she comes in the door. some punk goes thru her purse to borrow some cash or see if she has any smokes or a lighter in there (even if she doesn't smoke) and finds the hardware and ... well, that ain't good. even a shotgun in the bedroom might get discovered by the wrong people. fortunately, AZ is very gun friendly... i just don't know what the prevailing attitude is with the average college kids, and more importantly the kids that she's around at home. have her keep the gas tank above 1/2 full. not let it hit E and run on fumes before filling up. a few cases of bottled water (the large 1L bottles, not the tiny ones) and some non-perishable foods should fit under her bed. tell her to bring it into the house when NOBODY ELSE is there and keep it to herself... not everyone needs to know that she's *ahem* "hoarding". 
the area around Flagstaff is nice for camping. some camping gear can serve a dual role. a little escape and relaxation on the weekends, and helps round out the preps... the ability to cook even if there's no power, etc. but she should have a BOB, and a GHB in the car. |
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Dad; is she concerned about this enough to put any effort into a solution, or is your girl in sheep mode. If she is not interested in working out a solution, then you may need to tailor you approach accordingly. If she will work on a solution, then hurray
Why is your daughter living with the drunk scatterbrained kids? Even if it costs a few $ more––better roomies might actually save thousands of dollars of losses. Big + 1 on Keeping the car topped off Car kit––overnite bag––BOB Work out several routs. She really needs to drive them herself, so she car solve any navigational issues. Work out ways to switch from one route to another and have her work them out. You know already that you need her to plan a solution based on her strengths and compensating for her weaknesses. A high performance - personal security driving school might be good. For the money and a couple days of her time she would get some great skills and confidence. Have you given any thought to what kind of car she drives and what that car says? -Some cars can drive all across the states you listed in virtual anonymity, others say "I'm a stupid bimbo(guy or girl)," and still others say "I'm a attention whore" -Look at what farmers wives drive. -Consider a stealth car with no outwardly visible mods. -No visible girly stuff––such as a back window full of plush carebears. -Windows tinted to the max that the law will allow, and maybe some of those stick on sunshades that are sold to shade baby. -Black wall tires, very good quality tires in good condition. -High performance chip for the car that will remove any speed limiter––IF she needs to flee from highway predators. A modest sedan, pickup, or SUV can be set up to look like it is at home in anytown in the states you listed. If she drives and presents the demeanor that her papers are in order and her act is together, cops and wolves should want to move on to easier prey. Just some things that came to mind––stream of consciousness style. 
Hope this helps |
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I've lived in AZ for 24 years. I17 North to Flag and 87 North to Payson are a complete train wreck during holiday weekends. I can't imagine depending on those routes during bad times.
I17 usually gets fatal crashes around Anthem and crawls to a stand-still. 87 always gets some stupid backup either around Saguaro lake or near Rye. Plan accordingly. I've done the same route planning you will.. lay out some options that will take her her further east or west through some of the smaller highways to get up north. ––––––––––- For her buying a gun, I lived in a "college house" with 8 different roommates over the span of 5 years, only 1 of the 8 ever knew I owned firearm(S). She can easily keep a pistol out of sight and safe in her place. Go the Mid-sized frame 9mm (or your favorite caliber) route, that would be perfect for her. –––––––– The gas/water is a good idea. I'd have her keep 2 5gal cans of gas at home. That's more than enough for nearly any vehicle to make it to flag/payson, even on some rougher routes. The water is up to you. I tend to stick with large quantities of bottled water, because I drink it anyways, and it's easy enough to split up if you need to travel in a hurry. |
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She mentioned buying a gun but I'm not sure that's a good idea with her living in a house with a bunch of drunk college kids (she's the most responsible/grounded among them). If I did do the CCW route, are there any good schools/courses in the Phoenix metro area to send her to? I would go this route if she is willing. You can get a lock box of some kind for it. |
| Just a question about the "flying out" scenario: IF there were the kind of civil unrest you're thinking about I think it would be wide spread. Hell, the Rodney King thing touched off a riot in Ames, Iowa. So, if she can fly out of AZ where will she land? Most major airports that she would fly into for transferring or even at final destination are IN major metropolitan areas. Those might be "hot spots" as well. How do you get through the hell storm to pick her up? Just a thought... I've got kids away at college also but mine are only 5 hours away by car. |
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Phoenix...especially Tempe would be a HUGE PITA to out of....87 is a nightmare during the best of times....1 cars has an accident and it's shut down for hours...I-17/I-10 are nightmares during rush hours...cannot imagine what they'd be like with disturbances going to....since I lived there for 13 years...I know.
I'd think her best bet would be too try an wrangle an invite to someone who has parents in the suburbs...Apache Junction, Maricopa...Casa Grande...Ahwatukee...near-by downtown...but not really close enough to be involved in shenigans. Second...if she wants to get herself a gun and training...get onto the Arizona hometown board and ask them for the current trainers and shops in Phoenix/Tempe/ Mesa area..Rio Salado is an easy drive from Tempe ( I'm assuming she goes to ASU) for practice and classes....I always liked Lone Wolf out in Peoria for a gun shop...but I lived in Peoria...Scottsdale Gun Club is nice, but awfully expensive....YMMV. |
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Road maps !
So many people now rely only on GPS or print out the directions to their destination off of Map Quest as they need them.  I don't think I have to mention the folly of this to my fellow posters.
I keep road maps of my state, and area road maps in the door compartments of my SUV. In the slit type pocket of my seat is a state atlas and a truckers atlas. I also keep Mainstay water pouches packed in a Craftsman brand tool box to protect them. Mainstay 2400 calorie food bars are kept in my SUV. In my SUV is a Camelbak that I intentionally keep empty. My plan is dump the contents of the Mainstya water puches in the Camelbak if I have to abandon the vehicle and walk. In addition to road maps, get her a good quality compass and then teach her how to use it. When I built a BOB for my niece, I included a Cold Steel Spetnaz shovel, because it can be used as a baton or as a defacto tomahawk if you sharpen the edges. |
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maybe something like a smaller Homak or Stack-On steel 4-6 gun safe/security cabinet (cheap) screwed and secured into her bedroom closet (maybe up off the floor where a case of water can slide under it) to store her pistol or shotgun and/or a few other items (maybe her BOB may be able to fit in it also). Raised up high enough off the floor and a longer coat or dress could hide the safe even with the closet door left open. Stack-On makes a full length in-wall security cabinet Model # IWC-55 (looks like a tall breaker box panel; maybe spray paint it gray?).
Roommates and roomate's friends come and go (some good and some not-so- ethical sometimes) so having something lockable and secure might be advantageous. Might want to add an airline/TSA approved lockable pistol/gun case with a lock and the correct airline paperwork (filled out as much as possible) if she has to fly home with her firearm. If nothing else, add a smaller empty gas can in her vehicle if she needs to use it. A lot of times a student's "garage" consists of an open parking space. Pretty much anything left out, walks away. |
| A handgun, some training, and a small secure it lockbox with the cable. Lock the gun in the box when not carrying, and secure the cable to something immovable. Don't ever talk about or show anyone the gun that you don't intend to shoot. I'll reccomend a S&W Airweight Bodyguard, as she might actually carry it, and if used with Garrity's In-Conspicious holster(made in Arizona), the entire gun and holster can be removed together when she's not carrying. That combo will also allow her to carry without a heavy gunbelt, or any belt at all if she wants, and it conceals under almost anything. As for getting out of Dodge, I'd think offroad, but I haven't been to Phoenix in a few years, so that may not be an option. +1 to the BOB and preplanning. |
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Gun Site is only 2.5 hours from Phoenix.
Front Sight is only 7 hours from Phoenix. I have not not been to Gun Site but that is closer to your daughter's AO than Front Sight. I'm not sure of local courses but there are probably some available as well. As for the matter of keeping a weapon(s) weapon in a house full of drunk college kids, your concerns can be mitigated. There are a host of "hidden" safes available for the house. This one is obviously for handguns; it is small, unobtrusive, and can be had for under $30. 
Here is another for long arms which is just a tad over $100. 
You could place one in a closet. Unless your daughter talks about it to ANYONE, chances are it will not be found. You could also place a lock on her bedroom door to eliminate anyone else entering. If you are not able/willing to place these in the house, you still have options. There are numerous vehicle vaults available. Place one in her trunk; she can lock it, then lock the trunk. If she never gives consent to search her vehicle, the only way anyone will get in, is if the car is stolen or an inventory search/search incident to arrest. Then she has bigger problems anyway. Get her a BOB and develop some PACE plans with her in case there is a need to get out of Dodge. Keep the conversation light and almost a bit jovial and she'll probably soak it up. The biggest concern is her OPSEC. The old adage "loose lips sinks ships" is dead on; if she blabs her mouth to ANYONE she might be sinking herself. |
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Tell her to never, ever let the car get parked overnight with less than a half tank. Make sure she knows several ways out of the city and has a good "street index guide" type of map to identify the side streets if the main roads are blocked.
Make certain she can change a flat tire QUICKLY and has a full size spare in her trunk (with air in the tire). Oh, and whatever firearm she gets make certain there are at least five full magazines ready to go. Can she hide a long gun in the trunk? |
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Wow! Where to start––THIS is why I came here.
CCW issue: I've thought of a safe but she's moving to another apartment away from the drunks. I'll have to assess her new roommate. A class––preferably a 'tactical oriented' class, is a must. I'll discuss that with her as we go along. Vehicle: '97 Toyota Avalon without Phish, Obama, Ron Paul, etc. stickers. As invisible as you can get. It's in good shape, new Michelins, regular maintenance. Big trunk for BOB. It's got incredible range for a car––almost 500 miles on the highway. I've always wanted her to go to Bondurant down in Chandler. Gotta scrape the money together. Route: She's a stones throw from Country Club which turns into 87. I've already told her I-17 is a death trap (on a GOOD day). Alternate routes would have to be worked out. I'm going with the 1/2 tank minimum at this time. I may have her buy some 5 gal. cans this summer if things begin to get weird. She can store water in her apt. She has friends in Cottonwood, Flag and Payson. I'm teaching her about OPSEC. I'm getting her there. She is sharp and recognizes that most people around her are 'self-propelled speed-bumps' but she's never thought about this type of scenario. Zed––Thanks for the LDS info. She's got some LDS acquaintances down there. The reason I suggested flying out is because it's easy for us and she has a lot of experience in traveling. That would ONLY be an option if we had a long lead time. I would need to get her here and we have three options here at home depending on the severity of the SHTF. Again, ALL good suggestions for us! TC |
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The best she can do is sitational awareness.
Safety, security, water, food and energy. As dense as Phoenix is, if she is not out before SHTF then she had better be prepared to hunker down and wait for 48 hours before heading out. She has nothing but HEAT for 100+ miles to the North, 300+ miles in other directions.... Directly to the West she has a nuke plant..... I lived in Lake Havasu for four years, always had enough fuel and water to get me out of the desert in a moments notice. Always had maps showing the rail and pipe lines as alternative routes. I lived by a simple rule, always take enough ammo into the desert to get you back home - too many bad things occur in the desert that go unnoticed. Best regards, Keigan |
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There are numerous vehicle vaults available. Place one in her trunk; she can lock it, then lock the trunk. If she never gives consent to search her vehicle, the only way anyone will get in, is if the car is stolen or an inventory search/search incident to arrest. Then she has bigger problems anyway. Get her a BOB and develop some PACE plans with her in case there is a need to get out of Dodge. Keep the conversation light and almost a bit jovial and she'll probably soak it up. The biggest concern is her OPSEC. This would be my only choice. It's quick can be done out of town for opsec. I would go for the 8 shot ss revlover with a few speed loaders, I mean If she's willing to go the gun route it is the least time consuming weapon for concelment and training. If she's open to the whole "concerned for your safety" plan then YOU get the stuff together buy the plane ticket for YOU and go down on a weekend to "Set her up". |
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For current trainers and classes in Phoenix, contact Tim W...the owner of Practical Tactical...he's a member here...he mods an AZ specific board and would know who's who, and where they're at...also, I'd bet he could set you in the right direction for finding her a good firearm....and a backpack...no reason to send her hours away.
To be straight with you though...I wouldn't see a Rodney King type thing happening in Phoenix/Tempe..if it was..it would be right around the University, Mesa area.. and I'd think she'd be OK just getting out of Tempe...central Scottsdale...Glendale..N. Phoenix area...Phoenix is VERY different than LA. |
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For current trainers and classes in Phoenix, contact Tim W...the owner of Practical Tactical...he's a member here...he mods an AZ specific board and would know who's who, and where they're at...also, I'd bet he could set you in the right direction for finding her a good firearm....and a backpack...no reason to send her hours away. To be straight with you though...I wouldn't see a Rodney King type thing happening in Phoenix/Tempe..if it was..it would be right around the University, Mesa area.. and I'd think she'd be OK just getting out of Tempe...central Scottsdale...Glendale..N. Phoenix area...Phoenix is VERY different than LA. WTP––She's got a friend up in PV that could get her out of the Mesa area. As far as I'm concerned, she's in a DMZ right now––ok neighborhood but way too close to Guadeloupe area. I'll check into the AZ forum. Thanks again. TC P.S.––I'm going to forward her these suggestions just to add another level of seriousness to the conversation. |
I'd be careful with the gun. I'm more pro gun that the average bear  , but if the campus police run dogs along the vehicles in the campus parking lot like some schools, many of them are trained to detect weapons as well and frankly it would be ashamed if she were to risk expulsion as much as I disagree with that mentality. I would get her a good BOB stashed in the vehicle then hide $500 cash in the vehicle somewhere like under the spare or whatever for the gas issue. And like one poster said, paper maps with routes highlighted. Good luck whatever you decide.
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For current trainers and classes in Phoenix, contact Tim W...the owner of Practical Tactical...he's a member here...he mods an AZ specific board and would know who's who, and where they're at...also, I'd bet he could set you in the right direction for finding her a good firearm....and a backpack...no reason to send her hours away. To be straight with you though...I wouldn't see a Rodney King type thing happening in Phoenix/Tempe..if it was..it would be right around the University, Mesa area.. and I'd think she'd be OK just getting out of Tempe...central Scottsdale...Glendale..N. Phoenix area...Phoenix is VERY different than LA. WTP––She's got a friend up in PV that could get her out of the Mesa area. As far as I'm concerned, she's in a DMZ right now––ok neighborhood but way too close to Guadeloupe area. I'll check into the AZ forum. Thanks again. TC PV would be perfect...there would be a large contigent of LEO around to protect that area...lot's of moola..so the cops are gonna protect it. Guadalupe...yeah...not a great area during the best of times... P.S.––I'm going to forward her these suggestions just to add another level of seriousness to the conversation. |
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In honor of this thread, I emptied the back of the truck onto the driveway, threw out any out of date stuff, updated liquids and then packed everything into a new heavy duty tote box.
The BOB and our jumbo duffel that holds spare clothes/rain gear for each season will be repacked tomorrow. |
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My youngest brother went away to pharmacy school last year in northern PA. He has his AR, 870, and P99 locked up in his 1 bdrm apartment. He has a little inverter gennie that I got him for Christmas and keeps a shovel, tow strap, and 2 5 gallon MFC's in the tool box of his pickup.
Grove |
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I say go with the gun
Get one of those biometric safes so you dont have to worry about anyone else getting to it. And of course training, there seems to be alot of training companies located in AZ. Or just get her a boyfriend who can take car of her. Any twenty something year old Arfcomers out in AZ? 
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| Speaking of the AZ forum, maybe make a post like this in there looking for other like-minded fathers who have daughters about the same age...might find a good roommate/room there. Not to mention, two fathers of two kids living together that are like-minded would push your agenda of preparedness even further. |
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I don't think there are going to be riots in Arizona like there were in L.A. Also, need to be aware that there is a no weapons law on school campuses in AZ. That means no weapons on campus what so ever. Not on your person, not in your car, not in your dorm room, etc. So she won't be able to attend school and store a firearm in her trunk.
Just a heads up, since she's in AZ, might want to check out DefendU as they offer some very good women's self defense classes. |
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Get some face time with this lad asap and find out what else he knows.
Ask him about is perception of the future, and what if's, etc. Perhaps he could be her personal escort home if shtf if he is up for the flight and fight. If it looks promising, work with him on OPSEC and onto your page. StagPower Quoted:
Just found out a roommate has a CCW. Good for him. Bad for him that he's got lousy opsec.
Gonna start building the BOB and working on finding a weapons training course for her. I like the wheel gun idea. TC |