Posted: 1/17/2010 3:23:58 PM EDT
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I have been toying with the idea of writing an article about this for some time now for a Blog I contribute to –– I think I will let it begin its life as a post to this forum. Those who have been around the community long enough will understand why this message is an important one. Please indulge me: The most important prep any of us can have is like minded friends with guns and preps; friends that know how to use their guns and their preps. What this means is that the single most effective device we can employ is to network with others who would be there for us if we would teach them and include them. Let us all endeavor to not hide behind OPSEC to such a degree that we don't let anyone in and cultivate them to be by your side when hard times come. There will be hard times and none of us are going to survive alone; it doesn't matter how much stuff you have. The English poet John Donne said, "No man is an island" –– and this is no less true today than it was in the sixteenth century. We cannot be prepared for an unknown future if we believe we can do it by ourselves. Prepare by including others in your plan and teaching them the skills that you have –– in return you will be able to share the skills that they have even if they don't seem like cool things to know. If it seems that there aren't people who are ready to be your partner, create them by networking and making friends in your neighborhoods and communities. Don't shut others out who aren't like you on the outside because they aren't already in your present circle. Their condition or belief set is irrelevant to what they could become if you help them. Whatever you invest in a relationship in good times will return ten-fold when hard times do come. This is my opinion and there is little more important to our futures than our ability to achieve this. |
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The most important prep any of us can have is like minded friends with guns and preps
Two extended utility outages due to ice storms have taught me the value of not having to go it alone. Being completely alone in an emergency completely sucks. Last night I took steps to rectify this situation by meeting and having dinner with two active members of this forum. I left that meet with a feeling of relief, as well as one of validation. As it turns out I'm not the only nutcase in this corner of the world 
I have a LOT of resources that I am able to share, but I'd much rather share said resources with like-minded people who have my back in an emergency. In return I'll cover them, and make sure they get whatever supplies they need for their families. That is what it's all about, my friends 
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Have known from the outset that one can not go it alone. Have a couple of like minded friends in the area and we pool knowledge and compare notes all the time. Over time and after establishing a level of trust, we have come to be a pretty strong mutual support system. Our plans have come to mesh and in a SHTF scenario, we will have each others backs. It is also nice to have extra hands for projects and a knowledge pool to dip into when taking on a something that you have limited skills in.
stasiman |
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Heck most of my friends are Arfcommers that I train and shoot with.
My furnace went out a few weekends ago and I had offers from several friends to come over and help fix it (several would have taken my family in until it got fixed if I would not have been able to keep the house warm via other means). There is a core group in the WI hometown forum that regularly trains together (with the economy the way it is we don't train as much as any of us would like to tho). |
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Cohort The English poet John Donne said, "No man is an island" –
true enough, and yet another old saying is 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'. The folks that I want around me in a time of crisis, are those that are preparing NOW, on their own. I don't want a bunch of unskilled guys and gals who are into survival only because the choice was forced on them at a bad time. |
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Quoted: Cohort The English poet John Donne said, "No man is an island" – true enough, and yet another old saying is 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'. The folks that I want around me in a time of crisis, are those that are preparing NOW, on their own. I don't want a bunch of unskilled guys and gals who are into survival only because the choice was forced on them at a bad time. Please understand that I am not suggesting that we force anyone to do anything. Please also understand that when hard times come, we might not have the luxury of deciding who is next to us. What I am advocating is that we not turn our noses at the nice young couple who drive the Prius who live next door. You know the ones –– they say things like, "what do you have all this stuff for" or they spend their money on recreational pursuits that we don't understand. There have been hundreds of threads through the years about people like this or neighbors like this. And over these years of posts, there has been a continual trend to declare OPSEC instead of mentoring new people. You don't have to show them where you dug your cache to give them honest answers when they are curious about your preps, right? Network with these people. Make friends with them. None of us know if the reason that they drive that Prius is because they understand that hard times are coming and they don't want to rely as heavily on a fragile supply line –– they might be like minded and we don't give them a chance because they are different. Meet your neighbors, make friends with people who aren't ARFCOMERS and build common ground with them. Find what you DO have in common with people and use that as a base –– network and be involved with people around you even if they aren't like you. Yet. Many of us network poorly and all of us can do it some more. We are so fixated on what we are sure is going to happen and who we are sure that we can count on that we dismiss the people that we don't know. No one better than us understands 'we don't know what is going to happen or when' because we can't possibly know what we don't know. Sometimes we act like we do; or worse, we are hoping something bad will happen so we can be right. We don't know, we can only be prepared; and that might mean being stuck with people who aren't exactly like us. I am saying we better get busy and get to know them now, cultivate the relationship now, and build a support network with the people that are around us. There might not be time to teach them everything you know and there might not be time to learn everything they know; but there also might not be time to link up with our favorite ARFCOMER either when things go pear shaped. It happens quick. Network. Cultivate. Relationships. Now. |
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"like minded" friends are good.
However I would like to submit this point..... The people who will survive and flourish will sometimes shock you. What I mean by this is the premise that you cannot ever know for sure how someone will act in a stressful situation. Even the military has soldiers who crack up, go a little crazy, or fold up when in a tough situation. Even with all thier training and support it still happens. So the likelyhood some of your friends will crack under the strain is very high. But training and preparedness will help reduce this risk, but be assured it will not prevent it. I have personally witnessed in outdoor adventure trips people who my first assesment would have been to send them home because they would never make it, and by the end of the week they were leading thier groups and overcoming anything that was thrown at them. At the same time the people I sometimes pegged as the ones who would be the natural survivors, were complaining or crying to go home after the third day. There is alot to be said for "intestinal fortitude" and the mental aspect of survival in tough situations. Sometimes you never really know until you are in the middle of "it" so to speak. |
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Quoted:
I wish I had more like minded folk around me. Hell I live in the mountains and I hear a lot of random gunfire. I know a few of them, but the ones I don't, walking up on their property is kind of a no-no. Just because someone has a gun doesn't make them a shooter or necessarily an asset in bad times. Cohort is right, you should network. I've found that in taking firearm classes as a civilian is an excellent place to meet like-minded, strong, intelligent, motivated and high-quality people. These are people who don't just talk about doing things to be better prepared, but they in fact 'act' to increase their preparedness. But just because your neighbor has a gun doesn't mean you want him or her around. Most "average" gun owners I've met could use a class or three for not only safe gun handling skills, but for the fundamentals of shooting as well. I just got home from an Appleseed Instructor Boot Camp and met some top quality people. Most were HAMS and almost all were "preparedness" type people. We talked about radios and supplies for challenging times in some of our (few) breaks. That's just the latest of many very positive experiences I've had in meeting and making acquaintances with high-quality people at firearm training classes. John ETA: As for Cohorts suggestion that you network with your neighbors - even the Prius-driving ones - he's right too. But I usually keep them more at an arm's length as they are, around my place, likely to be much more of a liability in anything other than a short-term problem. |
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Too true. I am helping my friend start getting into prepping and better equipping himself for situations. I just talked him through some options and he picked up his first quality knife and flashlight. It's really rewarding to help friends out with things like this, plus who doesn't like talking about guns knives and other gear. |
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Quoted:
"like minded" friends are good. However I would like to submit this point..... The people who will survive and flourish will sometimes shock you. What I mean by this is the premise that you cannot ever know for sure how someone will act in a stressful situation. Even the military has soldiers who crack up, go a little crazy, or fold up when in a tough situation. Even with all thier training and support it still happens. So the likelyhood some of your friends will crack under the strain is very high. But training and preparedness will help reduce this risk, but be assured it will not prevent it. I have personally witnessed in outdoor adventure trips people who my first assesment would have been to send them home because they would never make it, and by the end of the week they were leading thier groups and overcoming anything that was thrown at them. At the same time the people I sometimes pegged as the ones who would be the natural survivors, were complaining or crying to go home after the third day. There is alot to be said for "intestinal fortitude" and the mental aspect of survival in tough situations. Sometimes you never really know until you are in the middle of "it" so to speak. "Like Minded" for the sake of this thread refers to their survival sense, and willingness to prepare. Beyond that most of my friends are a pretty eclectic lot. Most are veterans, some have seen combat, some not. Various faiths and political leanings are represented. Some are married, and some not. Some are retired and others, like myself, are still working. The other common thread we all share is that we all enjoy various shooting sports and cigars (and no, I'm not kidding  ).
Most of them I met through my local range or cigar lounge. And over several years we've become fast friends. It is an odd mix of interests, and that is perhaps why the group is so eclectic. There is a retired surgeon, a retired chemist, a truck driver, and a builder in our little group. All have several other skills beyond their professional MOS. One has been teaching me how to reload, another has been teaching me the basics of welding. I in return have mostly served as an extra pair of hands and a strong back on various projects. Most of these guys are pretty independent and strong willed. I think most of them have the intestinal fortitude (many have demonstrated it in past combat) to go the distance. If anything, I worry that I might be the weak link if it were to come down to a two way range. Have been there before, but I was much younger then, and immortal. My present profession lets me see first hand on a regular basis what projectiles can do to the human body, and it is pretty sobering. Part of my survival preps has been to do some networking. There are so many holes in my knowledge and skill sets, it just makes good sense to get to know people with skills beyond my own. And while my immediate neighbors have proven to be dry holes, I have several friends within a mile or so radius I can count on. stasiman |
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Believe me I understand what the OP is saying and appreciate it. But, humor me as I tell my long tale.
I have a strange situation. My BOL (43 acres w/water, living qrts, propane,etc) is six miles from where I live and work. Wife and I live in a small town of 1k souls. No kids, in our 50's. The town is at a railroad junction and three main hwys run through it so when the balloon goes up I see no way we can stay at the house in town. Wife is on board for the most part and understands that we will have no utilities and have to leave. Neighbors at the BOL. Well, I know three pretty well. Two others are fairly new, I've met one but don't know them. The other work alot and the timing hasn't been right to meet them. The ones I know are elderly. Two have one foot in the grave. All seem oblivious to any possible collapse. The one I talk to and respect the most (retired eng, college prof, jack of all trades) who built his own house and did a fine job I might add. I asked him why he didn't incorporate his roof gutters into a rain collection system. He said, "why, we have the county rural water system"? I said, "what if it is down for an extended period of time, like forever?" His reply, "that won't happen!" He voted for the big "O" and is now disappointed. 
Another is a retired Fed.gov employee. He is in bad health. Doesn't own a firearm and says if he did he wouldn't even shoot a skunk. He wanted me to team up with him to petition the county to prohibit hunting in our area. I told him, "this is Texas! they will laugh at you, I'm not in, I hunt also." 
So far, thats what I'm up against for neighbors. Like others have said, no idea what its going to be like when the balloon goes up but it will be very interesting. When I bought my property(15 years ago), there were three neighbors and they were old. Now, I have six that live around me and at least that many that have weekend retreats. My nearest neighbor is about a 1/3 of mile away as the bird flies but too close. The people I work with are clueless and this is rural Texas ? I've quit trying to talk to them. My best friends: One is now on board and alarmed. The other still doesn't get it and he visits me regularly. I've talked to him till I'm blue in the face. We all hunt/fish, etc. But I have NO doubt that when it hits the fan, if they can get to my place, they will. The DGI WILL understand then. I have two other good friends that do get it but they're so far away I don't think they will get here, I hope they do. One or two others might get here, but they'll be leaving large cities with the hoards. Sorry for the long rant. Good luck to all! GM15 |
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Our neighborhood has gone to shit the last few years with an influx of Katrina refugees; break-ins and other crimes have skyrocketed since 2005. Now gangs of little gangsta wannabes roam the streets; it's a nice looking neighborhood on the outside, but it's one missed Uncle Sugardaddy welfare check away from total anarchy.
I am pretty sure we are the only white family left on our street; everyone else has moved out. Which means we'll be a target if anything happens. Most of the Mexicans are pretty laid back, but the Katrinites are in a different league. There is no getting along with those slime. Some of my immediate neighbors are GTG (a few are cops) and along with us despise all of the new transplants, but we are fighting a losing battle and are heavily outnumbered, though probably not outgunned... If I can't have more allies, then I will compensate with ammo. A few bodies laying out on the front yard will probably be a strong deterrant to anyone else having wicked thoughts. Yeah... I'd leave 'em out there. |
Man, that sucks Fisterkev 
The entitlement mentality of others is a wicked thing to deal with under normal circumstances. Throw in a little chaos and panic in an emergency, and it's downright dangerous. People like us simply aren't wired that way. It's hard to imagine feeling entitled to have whatever we want or need...just because. It doesn't compute for most of us. While I can't do much to improve your situation in Texas, if you and your family are ever in New England when something bad happens I'll keep the light on for you. You and yours are always welcome
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Quoted: i wish i had more like minded friends. most of my friends (the few i have) say stuff like "i know where i'll be going when the world ends!" after they say im crazy/stupid for buying guns, ammo and food  This. I really could stand to have some local friends with the right mentality. My family and some of my friends know the stuff I have on hand and say essentially the same thing. My usual response is to not come uninvited unless they are prepared to be fired upon       |
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Quoted:
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i wish i had more like minded friends. most of my friends (the few i have) say stuff like "i know where i'll be going when the world ends!" after they say im crazy/stupid for buying guns, ammo and food This. I really could stand to have some local friends with the right mentality. My family and some of my friends know the stuff I have on hand and say essentially the same thing. My usual response is to not come uninvited unless they are prepared to be fired upon
It's good to have friends and to know your neighbors for surviving daily life, not just in case of a zombie uprising. A lot of my friends and neighbors have guns, generators, ammo stores, better flashlights, etc. because of me. The trick is that I don't tell them what to do or that they should do it. The fact is very few people like being told what to do and will rebel if they feel pushed. Instead, I drop a little information when it's appropriate to the conversation and let them come to their own conclusions. If they ask questions or ask for suggestions I'm glad to help, but I don't tell them what to do. I just tell them why I ––-bought a case of ammo, bought a case green beans or whatever. I'm not one of the OPSEC crowd trying to hide everything, but then I don't tell people everything either and sometimes I downplay the extent of my preps. There are a lot of good reasons for having stockpiles of stuff that don't relate to full scale Armageddon. I'm rambling a bit because I'm tired, but I think the point I was trying to make is that discretion, moderation and timing are more likely to have a positive impact on people than being defensive or preachy. Some people just won't do anything to help themselves, but if you go about it the right way a surprising number of people will at least take some steps towards being better prepared for various disasters. |
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How people will react in a long-term crisis and who you can count on, I'm afraid is the ultimate Survival Catch 22.
Its just people's nature to go through life with blinders on or as I like to say living in a box. Like the military, you don't know who you can count on until that time comes and many who you never even thought of will step up while those you had great expectations won't. Now I'm not giving you any insight here that's some revelation. Most people know this too. That's the main reason forming some sort of "Just in Case" survival reliance is so damn hard or almost impossible. Another aspect of this is it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the most likely scenario any of us may face is not a Red Dawn type thing but very localized so the only folks we can really count on in the short-term will be those closest to us geographically. This leads us to the decision we all must face, as the OP says, OPSEC or being open. Ultimately though in crisis people will look for a life boat any life boat, people do not give trust. Trust is earned in life. That means people have to know you. It really is not as simple as everyone has this big meeting and they hold up their hand who was a Vet or Cop and they instantly become to go to guy. People will naturally lean to the person they know who does what they need. Tj Story Time This is a story I have told before but this time from a different angle. I was living in and apartment in Houston when hurricane Alicia hit it head on. Due to the unpredictability of the storm and then the highway bottleneck, not only was I caught in the path but almost everyone around me. Now there's not much privacy in an apartment complex especially one that stresses social events like pool parties etc. Being an avid outdoors person about everyone knew I was into guns, camping, fishing, etc. Like life in general, those who shared common interest befriended me more than those who didn't, however I was in for quite a shock after the realization sank in we are all in for over a week with no services at all. I instantly became a go to person. We had our little core of close friends that naturally came together to help each other, but I got a stream of those I knew only socially and actually didn't know at all. One learns to say no very fast, however that's not a deterrent. Most of those folks, just sought advice. Some of that advice we here on the forum would consider common sense like there's a creek, you can use that water to flush a toilet or line a box with a garbage bag it will hold water for a while. I'm not kidding. The more simple advice I gave, over time, the more people I got as my reputation grew. The questions got harder and harder. Also as time went, those pulled into the core group increased. The whole thing was very enlightening. I was constantly amazed. Some of these people, young mostly, I didn't think had enough sense to get in out of the rain, actually became very useful. Others I thought strong and reliable became almost helpless. For the most part though, I was very proud of most of them as most, though in a crash course on how to make do without going to the store every few hours, rose to the occasion. It was almost amazing how those who stepped up and said follow me led so short a time, while others, like me, who didn't were soon sought out. What you did gives way pretty fast to what you are doing and a responsible position more often than not pushed rather than sought. I saw the same thing here where I live now during the Blizzard of 93 when a freak late storm took out all services for a like period followed by sub-zero temps. A little different, where before I was working/helping a core group friends, now it was my close neighbors. The doing drew people to me. I developed a reputation. Oh nothing big like hero but someone who can help. What i call a go to resource. I think any crisis we are in unless we are in the epicenter will be very much like that. Our core will naturally expand as people try to rise to the occasion. Without a core, we are just sticking our hands up in a meeting. Tj |
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I'm trying to get my friends that are either in LE (one, three or four more will be soon and I'm following them hopefully next year if my arm heals up the way I'm hoping it will) on board to get firearms training, but so far it's been kind of slow. The one who is already a cop wants to get training because he realizes he could use it for work and other purposes if necessary.
Slow but sure. |