[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR-15 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/2/2010 10:25:45 PM EDT
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Hey everyone-
I wanted the experts in the Survival/Prepardness forums opinion. I am looking to buy my first AR. This AR will be used for Self Defense, Home Defense, Carbine Classes, and End of the World Protection. It MUST be 100% reliable, accurate, and Durable. A 3-day Carbine course in the rain, mud, dirt, firing 3,000 rounds no problem rifle. I know most will recommend a $2,500 Noveske, but with current money situations, I'm looking to spend $1,000-$1,500 maximum. What does the census think? I was thinking possibly Rock River Arms? Thanks in Advance! 
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while i will say nothing bad about the colt....i will also say you need to look into this
LMT |
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you could also put your own together for less. using premium parts, and still have some room left for an optic. the plus to this is knowing how it went together and a better understanding on how to service the rifle. i have put two together so far and they run perfect...
just another option. ymmv |
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You can't go wrong with either LMT or Colt. I have some of each. I like that it is easy to find a 10.5" LMT. To find a 11.5 Colt is hen's teeth.
I started shooting LMT's about 5 years ago. My Colts just watch the safe's door go open and shut. I run one of three LMTs. A 10.5" SBR or one of the twins. The twins are part of my obsessive compulsive 2 is 1. I built both rifles exactly the same 14.5" barrels with AAC flashiders, KAC rails, Aimpoint M3s in Larueware, and Surefire lights. The 10.5 is the same minus 4 inches. |
what gun is 100% reliable?/??
guns are machines, machines fail, machines get too hot, too dirty, too wet, too dry etc...ammo is fuel for the machine, there is NO 100% reliable ammo, 99.9 maybe, but there is alwasy a chance it is going to fail, miss feed, bad primer, weak case etc.. that said I have a bushmaster with probably 4k rds down the pipe with no fail to fire UNLESS I let the oil dry out, it is then cleaned with brake cleaner and re-lubed and off you go. get the best gun you can afford, shoot it a 1000rds, see if you can make it break, if it does, fix it, repeat and if nothing breaks then? you can have some confidence you should be at the 99.9% level CHEF |
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I recently decided to take the AR plunge. I bought a S&W MP15. They are plentiful these days and deals can be found for 700 or so. My thinking was that I could get an off the shelf weapon that had some sort of warranty/support. Now that I've had it a few months, I'm ready to build my own. I think there is some value in running one for a little while before building. That way you can figure out what you like or don't like and get some idea of the inner workings.
Now I see why so many people have more than 1 AR. |
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what gun is 100% reliable?/??
guns are machines, machines fail, ....... ".....the machine breaks down. And when the machine breaks down, WE break down!" -Sgt. Barnes Movie: Platoon Sorry CHEF, no lack of respect intended, those words just made me flashback. 
Agreed, all machines need to be cared for. Part of the drill is "preventative maintenance" the other part of the drill is being able to deal with on the spot issues. In a perfect scenario, our preventative maintenance reduces and eliminates the "aww shits" while in use. In reality, you will have a jam, a FTC, FTE, FTF (feed and or fire), and so on. It's much better to know how to deal with any glitches. I would hate for someone to have their first failure-to-feed during a self defense situation. 
As far as the platform, the AR is a fine choice for the OP's defined usage. Get one, learn it, use it, maintain it. Just find a reputable brand in your price range, do some homework, and pull the trigger. Good luck, you'll do fine. |
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I bought a RRA entry tactical for my first AR and have been extremely pleased with it. I ran over 1000 rounds of wolf through it without cleaning and just lubing it before taking it out. Not one failure that was not directly ammo related due to blown primers on the first three rounds in the gun. Olympic ammo sucks! After the first three rounds, not one single failure, period. I am guessing its got to be close to 5000 rounds so far.
My second AR is a RRA Predator Pursuit that has also been flawless. Not a high round count gun since I use it for hunting. My third (notice a trend?) is a RRA Middy with a free float tube and SS barrel with wylde chamber. What a wonderful shooting rifle! My fourth is my truck gun. Its a DPMS lower with RRA parts and a RRA middy upper with light weight chrome lined barrel on its way. I have been extremely pleased with the quality and durability of my RRA guns. They are a great choice. You will find many different opinions of what guns are the best. So far I have not found any reason to buy anything else. Don't spend a stupid amount of money on the AR so you can afford to buy some spare parts over time. I have a couple spare BCG and some pin and spring kits. I have read here that the Franken Guns tend to have more issues in hard running carbine classes. |
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Complete factory gun colt 6920 can be had from 1000 to 1200 depending on how hard you shop........ Build a solid rifle ........ http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm Buy that upper the bcg deal and buy a set of hanguards 600~ build a stripped lower up yourself 300~ I own ar's that i built from parts from virtually every manufacturer out their other than noveske ,pof, lwrc and knights. Currently what i listed above is the best option imo if your buying NEW....... |
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If you want a high quality factory carbine for your price range ,
just get a Colt 6920 . In time you can add on what you want . BTW ,check and make sure that you are getting a current production 6920 that has the standard sized FCG pin . The only thing I don't like about my 6920 is that I have one with the older oversized FCG pin ,and I can't use standard sized trigger parts for it . Colt used a larger pin for years but the newer ones are standardized . |
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I have been very happy with my MP15. I had the ORC model, which is about as gimped up as they get in order to be CT/NY legal. At this point it's got a Cavarms MkII stock and DD Omega rails.
I have had NO failures with it over about 1k rounds of 5.56. My spikes 22 conversion (bolt only) is pretty reliable in it once tuned for the ammo being used and has several thousand rounds through it.. In my case I have a Primary Arms M3 multi on their cantilever mount, a Bushnell 4-12 scope on Burris tactical rings and a Primary Arms Microdot Gen 2. I plan to put them all on Larue mounts so I can swap between them with no change in zero. The only other changes I'm making are to add a flashlight on a quick release mount and one of Magpul's AFG's since that seems like exactly what I want and at $35 if I'm wrong it wasn't a big deal. For a shtf rifle I might suggest an Aimpoint instead of the Primary Arms sights just for the extra toughness and superb battery life. In my case I have had zero issues with the PA stuff and adding an Aimpoint is a low priority. I do plan to do it eventually though, or an ACOG. I'm not an eotech fan. |
| I am like you being brand new to ARs. I researched for about 6 months as I wanted a good solid factory built AR as my first one. I went with the Colt 6920 once the prices dropped back to normal this past summer and I paid around $1200 for it. The only custom piece I've added is a Magpul ASAP plate for a better sling attachment vs. the rear attachment at the back of the stock. As I become more familar with it and learn what I need, I'll add to it as I go. |
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There are 5 RRA Elite Car A4's on my 'block'. One guy got one. The rest saw how good it was and bought too. 2 were purchased last month for $930 from an on-line dealer. We ran 300 rnds thru one as fast as we could. All have been 100% reliable. I don't think you can beat the RRA for price vs. quality. I'm sure there are better AR's out there but I would rather have more mags, ammo and optics than a 'better' gun. I would trust my life to RRA.
The only thing I would like to try some time is swap out the heavy barrel for a RRA lightweight Middy. I'm not an operator (ex-target shooter). If any of you guys that have seen some real excitement have a comment on barrel weight, I'm all ears. My mountaineering experience tells me weight kills in the long run but the target side tells me more accuracy and less recoil w/ the heavy barrel. |
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FWIW, most feeding problems are mag related.
Colt fits your bill. LMT would also. I build my own from the best parts available. Colt barrel and bolt. Reputable FCG. Any in spec receiver will do. They're just parts holder and won't work any better with a pretty pony on the side. |
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In terms of long term durability, your rifle will only be as good as the effort you've put into keeping it maintained and serviced. Starting out with a good platform is only half of the equation-you have to have enough spare parts on-hand to keep it running no matter what. Your rifle is going to break-the brand name on the side matters not.
Maintaining a firearm is no different than maintaining a car-we keep spare filters, fluids, and other parts for our vehicles, right? A firearm is no different. Personally, I start out with the best quality I can afford-my collection consists of Colt, LMT, and BCM primarily for factory guns and uppers, and Colt and RRA parts for builds. If you are just starting out, your spare parts inventory and tools are every bit as important as the rifle itself. Here is one of my spare parts kits for the AR platform: 
Granted, you don't have to go to the extreme that I did-I maintain a LOT of ARs, M4s, and M16s. In addition to my own collection I'm also an armorer for a local PD. You can buy field repair kits from Bushmaster for example that will provide the basics to help keep you in the fight. My defensive and training weapons are configured to be nearly identical. Here is an example of a training gun-this particular carbine is a Colt LE6920: 
With the exception of the butt stock the carbine above is identical to the LMT/Rock River defensive carbine at the bottom of this picture: 
I figure in an emergency SHTF type situation having the extra battery storage might be handy 
If you are looking to spend $1500, a Colt LE6920 for around $1200 might be a good place to start. You would then have a few hundred left over for the parts and tools needed to keep it going for a long, long time. |
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In terms of long term durability, your rifle will only be as good as the effort you've put into keeping it maintained and serviced. Starting out with a good platform is only half of the equation-you have to have enough spare parts on-hand to keep it running no matter what. Your rifle is going to break-the brand name on the side matters not. Maintaining a firearm is no different than maintaining a car-we keep spare filters, fluids, and other parts for our vehicles, right? A firearm is no different. Personally, I start out with the best quality I can afford-my collection consists of Colt, LMT, and BCM primarily for factory guns and uppers, and Colt and RRA parts for builds. If you are just starting out, your spare parts inventory and tools are every bit as important as the rifle itself. Here is one of my spare parts kits for the AR platform: http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Parts_bin1.JPG Granted, you don't have to go to the extreme that I did-I maintain a LOT of ARs, M4s, and M16s. In addition to my own collection I'm also an armorer for a local PD. You can buy field repair kits from Bushmaster for example that will provide the basics to help keep you in the fight. My defensive and training weapons are configured to be nearly identical. Here is an example of a training gun-this particular carbine is a Colt LE6920: http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/6920_Class.jpg With the exception of the butt stock the carbine above is identical to the LMT/Rock River defensive carbine at the bottom of this picture: http://home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/ACOG_AIMPOINT.JPG I figure in an emergency SHTF type situation having the extra battery storage might be handy
If you are looking to spend $1500, a Colt LE6920 for around $1200 might be a good place to start. You would then have a few hundred left over for the parts and tools needed to keep it going for a long, long time. Nice spare parts kit! The absolute bare minimum for spare parts should be an extra BCG. If your extractor or FP breaks when you really need your rifle its nice to be able to drop your spare bolt carrier group in and get going again. |
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FWIW, most feeding problems are mag related. Colt fits your bill. LMT would also. I build my own from the best parts available. Colt barrel and bolt. Reputable FCG. Any in spec receiver will do. They're just parts holder and won't work any better with a pretty pony on the side. +1 if you want a Colt, you will , I'm sure, be well served by it, but I think you would be better served building the rifle YOU want, for less money, and use the left over money to buy mags, and ammo. I, as of right now, only own 3 AR's, all are built by me, and I would put them up against any out there. I do however, have alot of experience working on the AR platform, but it is not necessary, they are very easy to assemble, from Quality parts. Take your pick LMT, BCM, Spikes, RRA, Bushmaster, Colt, and many others, all make good stuff. You do, however, on this site, have to deal with the Colt koolaid bunch, who will only recommend Colt. That is the only AR to have, in there eyes, but they are blind to the fact that other AR manufactures make a quality product. Flame Away Colt Lovers
Edited for spelling 
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is there a decent guide on how to build an AR? I've looked, searched, etc. on this site and haven't seen the "AR assembly for dummies" thread. Look under build it yourself and the thread is called assembling your own lower/upper/etc. Or just click on this link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 |
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Quoted: is there a decent guide on how to build an AR? I've looked, searched, etc. on this site and haven't seen the "AR assembly for dummies" thread. Check out the video's at Brownell's and they are a sponsor here. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/guntechdetail/How_to_Build_An_AR-15_Video |
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You do, however, on this site, have to deal with the Colt koolaid bunch, who will only recommend Colt. That is the only AR to have, in there eyes, but they are blind to the fact that other AR manufactures make a quality product. Flame Away Colt Lovers
Edited for spelling I think you might be projecting a wee bit, no?
Several card-carrying members of the "Colt Koolaid bunch" have already posted in this thread, and most of us suggested more than one brand. Heck, I mentioned four brands in my post... This supposed Colt superiority complex didn't come up at all, until you mentioned it. Just a thought, but I would submit that the OP is more than intelligent enough to identify blind fanboyism for any brand-even if you don't go to the trouble of alerting him to something that hasn't happened yet. |
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$50.00 lower... $70.00 upper $150.00 barrel $45.00 bolt $60.00 carrier $69.00 LPK $18.00 handguards $25.00 buttstock etc.. might be able to get some items cheaper used on EE..... And that is how you end up being 'That Guy' at the carbine class. Don't be 'That Guy', buy the 6920, probably the highest rated AR available according to every carbine instructor that has taught or talked to me. |
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$50.00 lower... $70.00 upper $150.00 barrel $45.00 bolt $60.00 carrier $69.00 LPK $18.00 handguards $25.00 buttstock etc.. might be able to get some items cheaper used on EE..... And that is how you end up being 'That Guy' at the carbine class. Don't be 'That Guy', buy the 6920, probably the highest rated AR available according to every carbine instructor that has taught or talked to me. I still don't believe that the colt is "that" much better than my RRA. When I get my bills paid off I will have to buy one just to try it out. For now my cheapo RRA will have to do. 
To reiterate your point, I would definitely not waste the money for a carbine class on taking a chance with a Franken gun. It had better be a very proven performer before I would try it. My rifles run reliably as they came from the factory. |
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Rock River, LMT and Colts are fine AR-15s. However, don't dismiss Armalite AR type rifles by any means! My Armalite M-15 Carbine has a great fit, finish, trigger pull and accuracy. I have a M-15 I trust 110% also + I have a kit rifle I built also. ETA I built the kit using the guide from the build it yourself forum. Went very smoothly. |
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Quoted: Hey everyone- I wanted the experts in the Survival/Prepardness forums opinion. I am looking to buy my first AR. This AR will be used for Self Defense, Home Defense, Carbine Classes, and End of the World Protection. It MUST be 100% reliable, accurate, and Durable. A 3-day Carbine course in the rain, mud, dirt, firing 3,000 rounds no problem rifle. I know most will recommend a $2,500 Noveske, but with current money situations, I'm looking to spend $1,000-$1,500 maximum. What does the census think? I was thinking possibly Rock River Arms? Thanks in Advance! i heard atlantic firearms here has a nice AK for sale for sub 500$ |
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Hey everyone- I wanted the experts in the Survival/Prepardness forums opinion. I am looking to buy my first AR. This AR will be used for Self Defense, Home Defense, Carbine Classes, and End of the World Protection. It MUST be 100% reliable, accurate, and Durable. A 3-day Carbine course in the rain, mud, dirt, firing 3,000 rounds no problem rifle. I know most will recommend a $2,500 Noveske, but with current money situations, I'm looking to spend $1,000-$1,500 maximum. What does the census think? I was thinking possibly Rock River Arms? Thanks in Advance! i heard atlantic firearms here has a nice AK for sale for sub 500$
The words in red are usually considered mutually exclusive . ( Sorry ,I just couldn't stop myself )
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: $50.00 lower... $70.00 upper $150.00 barrel $45.00 bolt $60.00 carrier $69.00 LPK $18.00 handguards $25.00 buttstock etc.. might be able to get some items cheaper used on EE..... And that is how you end up being 'That Guy' at the carbine class. Don't be 'That Guy', buy the 6920, probably the highest rated AR available according to every carbine instructor that has taught or talked to me. I still don't believe that the colt is "that" much better than my RRA. When I get my bills paid off I will have to buy one just to try it out. For now my cheapo RRA will have to do. To reiterate your point, I would definitely not waste the money for a carbine class on taking a chance with a Franken gun. It had better be a very proven performer before I would try it. My rifles run reliably as they came from the factory. I have to disagree. When's the best chance you have to really beat on your gun and find out what might break if something is going to break? When your life depends on it or when you might lose a little money/inconvenience? Take some spare parts with you. |
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Build your own, at least assemble the lower and slap on a pre-built upper to save a few hundred.
If you want reliability, don't for get the go juice, run it wet when running it hard. And, just to be a dick, you might consider an AK if reliability is needed over other just as relevant factors (ammo availability, common parts, team form factor, etc.). |
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$50.00 lower... $70.00 upper $150.00 barrel $45.00 bolt $60.00 carrier $69.00 LPK $18.00 handguards $25.00 buttstock etc.. might be able to get some items cheaper used on EE..... And that is how you end up being 'That Guy' at the carbine class. Don't be 'That Guy', buy the 6920, probably the highest rated AR available according to every carbine instructor that has taught or talked to me. I still don't believe that the colt is "that" much better than my RRA. When I get my bills paid off I will have to buy one just to try it out. For now my cheapo RRA will have to do.
To reiterate your point, I would definitely not waste the money for a carbine class on taking a chance with a Franken gun. It had better be a very proven performer before I would try it. My rifles run reliably as they came from the factory. I have to disagree. When's the best chance you have to really beat on your gun and find out what might break if something is going to break? When your life depends on it or when you might lose a little money/inconvenience? Take some spare parts with you. Because I am there to train my mind, not play with my gun. I want to rifle to perform like an extension of my mind and not something I have to fight with. Roughing it with toys is for the weekend range. |
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$50.00 lower... $70.00 upper $150.00 barrel $45.00 bolt $60.00 carrier $69.00 LPK $18.00 handguards $25.00 buttstock etc.. might be able to get some items cheaper used on EE..... And that is how you end up being 'That Guy' at the carbine class. Don't be 'That Guy', buy the 6920, probably the highest rated AR available according to every carbine instructor that has taught or talked to me. i have to disagree. every AR is a parts gun. The only difference is whether you put it together or paid for someone at a factory to put it together for you. if you buy quality parts, put them together properly, make sure everything is staked and tight you will be gtg. buy quality parts and mags, get a quality rifle and solid performance. |
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As others have said, Colt 6920 or 6940 are great (basically the same gun with different rail set up on the 6940). Also, to the poster who said 11.5in colts (6933) are like hens teeth, this is nonsense. Clydes www.policeguns.com has had them in stock continually all through the Obama scare/gun buying run.
I like my 6933 much better than the 6920 as it is lighter and easier to move about with. I put on a EOTech. Looking to get a can for it when I make up my mind what kind I want. I also have stacks of 30 round PMAGs for it which makes it nice as it is grab and go. I have 10 of them in a Molle Vest as my BO Vest––people here scoff at the tacticool vest, but under my cashmere trenchcoat, no one would notice and I would blend in like the yuppie scum I am. |
| I have a RRA entry tactical and have about 3k through it, mostly suppressed and it has been the best AR I have ever owned. Including Colts. It is extremely accurate and reliable and handles the extra rigors of suppressed fire very well. If I was going to get one AR in the price range you describe, it would be an RRA mid length with a light weight chrome lined barrel. Good luck with whatever you decide. |
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..i have to disagree. every AR is a parts gun. The only difference is whether you put it together or paid for someone at a factory to put it together for you... That is totally incorrect. Parts are not Parts. There are differences in machining, finishing, materials, tolorances, and inspections done on parts. Even when parts are procured from the same source that does not mean the quality is the same (contract allowable rejects before lot rejection is one reason). For example the Bolt you get from Colt is far better quality than the one you procure from DPMS. The instructors I've had dealings with have years (in most cases decades) of training on the range. What they see is top notch guns (like Colt or BCM) tend to have the fewest issues, while frankenguns have more than their fair share of problems. Now can a person make a good gun? Sure IF you really know what parts are good and are prepared to spend the money to buy them and IF you know how to properly assemble the rifle with the right tools and jigs (something many newbs want to skimp on). Too many look to build with the cheapest components then wonder why their rifle died on the 2nd day of class 'even thought it ran perfectly at home'. If you're going to have 1 rifle, especially if it's your first you are far better off buying a quality carbine (Colt 6920) up front. |
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You do, however, on this site, have to deal with the Colt koolaid bunch, who will only recommend Colt. That is the only AR to have, in there eyes, but they are blind to the fact that other AR manufactures make a quality product. Flame Away Colt Lovers
Edited for spelling I think you might be projecting a wee bit, no?
Several card-carrying members of the "Colt Koolaid bunch" have already posted in this thread, and most of us suggested more than one brand. Heck, I mentioned four brands in my post... This supposed Colt superiority complex didn't come up at all, until you mentioned it. Just a thought, but I would submit that the OP is more than intelligent enough to identify blind fanboyism for any brand-even if you don't go to the trouble of alerting him to something that hasn't happened yet. Right on que
First let me say, I recommended Colt in my post, as well !!, along with others. All I was saying, is there are alot of people on this sight, that can't see past the Pony, and that is unfortunate, because there are alot of Great AR's out there. I am not projecting anything ! But, I was an Armorer as well, In the Army, for my last two years in, and I have worked on my share of Colts, and have owned some as well, and let me tell you, they can, and will break down, just like any machine, if not maintained properly, like you said. Just because I didn't post a picture of my spare parts kit's, or my Colt weapons, doesn't mean that I don't know what I am talking about. Also, I was not implying that any one was un-intelligent, I was merely preparing him for the Colt fan boy's, who showed up fast by the way, and stating my opinion, which last time I checked, was still legal. Just a thought, just because you have all the answers, doesn't mean they are right. And I'm Done
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..i have to disagree. every AR is a parts gun. The only difference is whether you put it together or paid for someone at a factory to put it together for you... That is totally incorrect. Parts are not Parts. There are differences in machining, finishing, materials, tolorances, and inspections done on parts. Even when parts are procured from the same source that does not mean the quality is the same (contract allowable rejects before lot rejection is one reason). For example the Bolt you get from Colt is far better quality than the one you procure from DPMS. The instructors I've had dealings with have years (in most cases decades) of training on the range. What they see is top notch guns (like Colt or BCM) tend to have the fewest issues, while frankenguns have more than their fair share of problems. Now can a person make a good gun? Sure IF you really know what parts are good and are prepared to spend the money to buy them and IF you know how to properly assemble the rifle with the right tools and jigs (something many newbs want to skimp on). Too many look to build with the cheapest components then wonder why their rifle died on the 2nd day of class 'even thought it ran perfectly at home'. If you're going to have 1 rifle, especially if it's your first you are far better off buying a quality carbine (Colt 6920) up front. how am i totally incorrect? you agreed with me. I said... "if you buy quality parts, put them together properly, make sure everything is staked and tight you will be gtg. buy quality parts and mags, get a quality rifle and solid performance." you said... "Now can a person make a good gun? Sure IF you really know what parts are good and are prepared to spend the money to buy them and IF you know how to properly assemble the rifle with the right tools and jigs (something many newbs want to skimp on)." now, i know that you were disagreeing with my statement of about every AR being a parts gun, but you turned around and contradicted yourself.. saying that parts guns were crap, then agreeing and saying that someone can make a good one... look i'm not trying to start a flame war here. this isn't the GD. the OP wanted ideas about picking up a solid AR. Everyone gave their ideas. Colt makes a beautiful firearm, and the OP would be well served with one, but with proper instruction, and quality parts the OP COULD put his own together and have a solid firearm too, and could save some money, know how it works, be better equipped to trouble shoot it...have a zen moment with their gun i'm not saying anyone is wrong, but its a difference of opinion between we two, and im going to agree to disagree and walk away. cheers.
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..i have to disagree. every AR is a parts gun. The only difference is whether you put it together or paid for someone at a factory to put it together for you... That is totally incorrect. Parts are not Parts. There are differences in machining, finishing, materials, tolorances, and inspections done on parts. Even when parts are procured from the same source that does not mean the quality is the same (contract allowable rejects before lot rejection is one reason). how am i totally incorrect? Your comments that 'All ARs are 'Parts guns' and "The only difference is whether you put it together or paid for someone" Both statements are incorrect. you agreed with me. I said...
LOTS of 'IFs' there, and in general they are not all met. For a person looking to buy their FIRST AR-15 you can bet money either some bad parts will be purchased and/or parts will be improperly installed. |
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colt 6920 around $1200 colt 6940 around $1400 This is the answer. What do you have to substantiate there is any reason to spend more than 1K for an AR? I believe different brands can have the same or better quality than the leader. Example: For a recent product my company produced we need to use n-Eicosane, 99% (phase change wax) that was specified by the customer. They suggest a major manufacture that they had purchased sample level quantities from. I found a minor manufacture that was selling n-Eicosane, 99% for 1/2 the price. Exact same spec's: CH3(CH2)18CH3, lab certified, etc. Just because it costs more does not mean it is any better....... (in the above example - 2x for name brand) I understand the basic sediment you are trying to convey and agree! But I also believe there is a limit to the “best theory” where you are just throwing money at it to get a brand name. |