Originally Posted By TIG:
Great info!!

Fighting the $75 card limit now at the local Hess. Doesn't matter if I choose debit or credit.

How am I supposed to fill the 34 gallon tank in my diesel truck at around $3 a gallon. Can't even by more than 25 gallons
I'd like to get an even larger tank and add some extra filtration. As it is I'm having to double swipe now and deal with multiple receipts/accounting entries.

I've checked with the bank. My POS limit is fine on my business check card.
I spoke with the station, just a worker, and they say it's corporate.
They must have lowered it because I can see in my records that I purchased >$90 before mid Oct.

Should I call corporate and complain or would I be wasting my breath?

Originally Posted By IBU-14_Gunner:
When the pumps/dispensers run out of receipt paper, is there an alarm of some sort that alerts the attendants to come out and put a new roll of paper in the printer?

It pisses me off when I have to stop, lock my car up, walk inside and stand in line to get a receipt due to the printer being our of paper.

How about suggesting to the manufacturers that they start installing some kind of flashing LED that alerts drivers that a pump is out of printer paper?  That way people like me can skip that pump and find one that has paper.

Originally Posted By Nozzleman:



Glad to know that someone else is annoyed by this too.  I become quite the asshole when I have to go inside for the recpt.  If I wanted to go inside, I wouldn't have used "pay at the pump".

Originally Posted By Hawk_308:
Thanks man.

As of yesterday 2 things happen PCI compliance went into affect which was the credit card security stuff I spoke about a couple of pages ago . Sites that do not meet the requirements either had their debit shut off and maybe their credit also or they are now are responsible for any CC fraud on the site opposed to the network. I good give any if they are compliant is a metal keypad like the one posted earlier , opposed to the membrane style .

2nd thing is Texaco pulled of of most of the east coast , maybe even a larger area so if you use them you might no more....

Takes me back to the days when I managed a 24 hour Hess station during Odd/Even rationing.

I guess that most here know to not siphon from the bottom of the tank, since sediments and water lay there.

Originally Posted By Dru:
Tag...

This is AWSOME! As a fire fighter & Hazmat tech.... I would like to use this as a training tool!  I think some of it would be informative.... This is awsome!

Originally Posted By rvnvet:


Hawk, I want to thank youfor the excellent write up, pictures, and info so far.

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By Hawk_308:
Gas can idiot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYO4jvnJHw

Originally Posted By Country_Boy:
Something I've been wondering about- I'm no longer a vol firefighter, and my old department didn't know:  With ethenol fuel, can you still fight fires with AFFF (the typical foam 90% of fire departments have.  The reason I ask is AFFF is useless against alcohol fires.  Foam, if allow to flow onto the fire, will not mix with polar (petroleum) solvents.  The foam will pretty much stay in place until it turns to water for whatever reasons foam turns to water.  But if sprayed on a polar solvent (water or alcohol), the solvent mixes with the foam, breaking the bubbles.  Hence a special foam, AFFP is used for alcohol fires.  There are also alcohol resistent forms of AFFF.

So has anyone said you can't fight gasoline fires with standard AFFF anymore?  The most official source, the FAA, defers the question because alcohol isn't used in avgas.

Originally Posted By Cremora:


Hawk,



Thanks for the great write up!



If you do have to open your SHTF gas station, I know how to change the price on the mechanical pumps. (Shameless plug for possible future job.)  



I worked for Exxon in the 80's.  The Exxons in my area had a rash of bomb threats, and Exxon quickly figured out it was cheaper to pay kids to keep the stations open 24 hours, than to pay security guards to watch the stations all night.  Also, I think it was $5,000 to stick a camera in the tanks each time they had a threat.



I was working there when gas went to over $1.00/gallon.  Those 3 digit changes were a real bitch! Especially when the dollar digit had never ever been moved.  We went from .999 to 1.019 several times a week for several months.  You should try changing from 2.xx to 4 xx now ,it takes a good 5 to 10 minutes a unit .



Their "Discount for Cash" program was another royal pain.  This was in the days of kiosks and we went to exact cash after 10:00 PM.  People got really pissed when I told them I didn't have any money and would need to give them 18 cents in more gas.  (There was a chart on the pump that showed how much more gas they could put in.)



My questions are:



Do you get any more gas by squeezing the handle after turning off the pump  dispenser?



You shouldnt be able to , most nozzles have an antidrain valve . There are a few OPW 11a nozzle out there though , plus a few faulty newer ones .



How did the TransAct "know" how much gas the mechanical pumps pumped dispensers dispensed?



A electrical pulser mounted on the side of the mechanical computer that sent electrical pulses in for every 1/100 or 1/10 of a gallon

Do they even make sticking paste anymore?  (Forget the actual name.  It is hell getting old...)  



yeah but now theres a paste for ethanol blended gas sense the old paste doesnt read it right .



The gas is underground below and away from the pumps dispensers.  The gas has to go up vertically- what 10 feet or so and horizontally 30 - 50 feet?   How does the gas move?  Where are the actual pumps?



Theres a pump in the bottom of the tank almost like newwer cars have  ,  I posted some pics of the units removed here in our junk yard     http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/631251_About_Gas_Stations_56K_get_popcorn_upd_6_21_pg7.html&page=5#i10773311

Originally Posted By Hawk_308:


Most likly wasting your breath but most employees have no idea of how it works , maybe at a mom and pop you might get it changed by asking , I do it all the time at small chains or mom and pop stores when the network allows it . Most of the time when it happens Im there for something else and the manager or cashiers will say they are having complaints about the limit on the diesel pump can I bump it up? I check it and if I can I normally turn it up to where you can buy roughly 40 gals or so for an auto diesel pump at the current price range ,high and ultra high Ill bump it up rto do 200-300 galss at the current price.

Yeah we didnt really get into phasing but it is a serious issue and you did a good job covering it . I hear alot of the northern techs speaking of phasing issue in the site storage tanks . Here I dont hear about it much in the site tanks which doesnt mean it isnt as much as an issue.

As for the special gas additives , Im not sure but I do know here most brands share the same tanks that they get there deliveries from , maybe someone that is in that part of the field will chime in.

Originally Posted By lumper:
If one was interested in purchasing a small store which had previously sold gas and groceries, and the dispensers and tanks were currently in place (although unused for several years).  If the person considering purchasing the business did not want to sell gas, how much expense would he be looking at to remove the dispensers and tanks.  The tanks were said to have 35% of their life expectancy left, and there were two gasoline dispensers.

My main concern would be that the store is rural, our family does not live near by (20 minutes minimum) and would only be open a few days out of the week.  In my opinion, there is simply too much time available for the gasoline to be stolen.

What type of company would one contact for an estimate to test the soil and remove the tanks.  Or, is it simply better to purchase a property that has never dispensed fuel to remove this liability?  If one was to require that the tanks be removed and the ground certified clean before purchase, Is it possible that the site could actually be cleaned enough that the government or anyone else with a claim of ground water contamination would not come after the new owner later?  There is no public water in this area, everyone has their own well or cistern.

I know this is a difficult question to give a quote to, and I apologise.




Edited to add: After typing this, I think I talked myself out of this site.

Originally Posted By Hawk_308:
Little news , might effect some of yall in the central north part of the country, picked off a petroleum tech site.

not my post,

Man we are getting hammered by diesel slow calls, you dump them out and it looks slimey, and when the pump has a screen it will be full of green slimey looking stuff. Pop on a new filter or screen, and bang you are good to go for a day or 2, then back to half speed or slower. I have talked to the companies, I thought it was gelling, but that was not the case. We thought it may be algae, but the shock did no good. We have lots of stations will all different brands of fuel with the same issue.
Now we even have 2 sites one with encores and one with eclipses that will not pump over 8 gpm even with a bypass cap on. Fuel pressure is 35 at the bypass cap and doesn't drop when pumping either. I am thinking that we have some sort of build up of this slime in the valves or meters.
I have heard that Marathon had a mishap where they accidentially dumped a cleaning agent in with a load of diesel at the bulk plant and now it is making a mess at every station it hits downstream in the MI, IN, IL, and OH area.
Anyone else hear about this or having issues.

We are/have been having major problems with bio-diesel blend in Illinois. Changing filters every few days....doesn't matter if its microglass, waterfinders, cardboard, bio-tek, 10 or 30 microns. We seem to be having the best luck with 30 micron particulate. A buddy of mine is a delivery driver and he says they have the same problem at the terminal just trying to load the tankers. He knows when he's dropping Marathon Bio-Blend he's literally putting garbage in the tank.

HOLY CRAP. Sites running ULSD, that sell less than 600 gallons per month are our biggest problems. Algae grows rampant, destroys the filters, which break apart and deposit all sorts of crap in valves and nozzles and meters, causing all kinds of problems from auto-shut-off failure, preset over-runs/under-runs, meter failure (especially LC meters), slow flow, nozzles and valves failing simultaneously causing gross line fails/LD trips, badly clogged swift-checks, pressure relief path at STP clogging up causing pressure spikes so high the check valve won't open, in turn causing a drain in line pressure when dispenser is authorized, causing subsequent gross line fail. Sheesh. We have spent a lot of money in repairs to many sites because of this crap. In the end we always have to treat the tanks with kathon to kill the algae, and continue to treat the tanks. It's costly, but more economical than all the damage to equipment.