Posted: 6/1/2009 7:51:59 AM EDT
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My wife gave me the go-ahead on purchasing land for a BOL. This will also serve as a great hunting / fishing camp in the mean time. I was very excited at the prospect, but now I’m wondering if I’m being logical. But there’s a few problems. a.I’ve only got about 40K to spend. I’m not a wealthy man and I live near Chicago. Land prices are very high and the suburbs are expansive. To locate land with fresh water, trees, and ample hunting, in my price range I need to go roughly 5-8 hours out of town. QUESTION: Is this too far for a BOL? Some have suggested that it’s pointless to even try to caravan a number of vehicles that far and that the money would be better spent stocking my suburban location. b.With such a distant BOL, and very limited funds to put towards a structure, I’m concerned about securing the supplies stored there. I figure I’m only going to be able to visit/improve the property for about 30 days per year. I cannot afford to build a secured sub-level storage. QUESTION: Any suggestions on cheaply securing a location when no one's home? |
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Personally I'd want to be at least five hours outside of a large city. Yeah it's along way to go but if you need to BO it's doable. To secure your supplies: Check around at feed stores, down here you can get large mouth food grade 55 gal plastic drums pretty reasonable. Bury them half way or so then cover the top with a sand pile for easy recovery. Nobody will look twice at a pile of sand and if you ever need to use the place for a BOL some sand bags might come in handy.  |
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Personally I'd want to be at least five hours outside of a large city. Yeah it's along way to go but if you need to BO it's doable. +1 Anothing thing to think of is, why not purchase a trailer. Store what you need at your suburban loc, when you bug out, everything goes in the trailer. Heck, use the trailer as the storage at your suburban location. I do like the idea of the shipping container. You technically could keep things like wood, tools, etc. it in and during your 30 days/year, build a structure. Humm.... ever consider putting a fence with barb wire at the top to keep people way from the structure you build? Maybe build the fence first. Hardwarz |
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I don't know that $40k is going to get you 40 useful acres anywhere within a 5 or 6 hour drive from Chicago.
I don't think that 5 or 6 hours is "too" far away, but it does mean that if you did have to BO you would need to leave pretty early in a crisis, and have plenty of fuel on board. the idea of burying barrels of stuff sounds like a great idea until you realize how much work it typically is to dig a 4 or 5 foot deep hole 10 or 15 times. a container is a great idea but it may be difficult to get it where you want it, and just screams that there is something valuable inside. I don't have a good answer for this dilemma. |
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Here is my little tale. Before Katrina hit, we were headed from New Orleans to Monroe, La. A 5 hour trip turned into a 16 hour nightmare due to wrecks and poor traffic conditions. None of the stoppage happened within 30 miles of New Orleans. Contraflow was slow, but it worked for us as planned. Once you got out of the immediate danger zone, people who were not aware of the impending threat were oblivious to what was going on. And most small city cops just couldn't handle traffic duty on a small 2 lane highway when it come to a 4 way stop, when it has 10s of THOUSANDS of cars trying to pass thru it. I no longer live down south La, I am now essentially living in my bug out area in north Louisiana. I realize the threat of hurricanes are prolly pretty low on your list  but if its an ice storm or other inclement weather you are trying to get out of, Why would you want to spend 5 hours ( at the best according to what you said would be a normal drive) on icy roads, or in a thunderstorm etc?I am of the mind, that if you cannot get to where you are going, with out having enough fuel to get back, without using a gas station, then its not worth it and may actually be risky. At 5hrs 1way u are looking at 10hours MINIMUM round trip. that's close to being 3 refueling stops for me in my Tahoe. I just wouldn't risk it. Not using the mentality that "I'll just load up and jump in the truck and go" to many variables in a 5 hour excursion that could get you stuck in a place you don't wanna be or worse. YMMV Dave |
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Quoted: I don't know that $40k is going to get you 40 useful acres anywhere within a 5 or 6 hour drive from Chicago. I don't think that 5 or 6 hours is "too" far away, but it does mean that if you did have to BO you would need to leave pretty early in a crisis, and have plenty of fuel on board. the idea of burying barrels of stuff sounds like a great idea until you realize how much work it typically is to dig a 4 or 5 foot deep hole 10 or 15 times. a container is a great idea but it may be difficult to get it where you want it, and just screams that there is something valuable inside. I don't have a good answer for this dilemma. You would definitely want to rent something to dig the holes and move the sand. Locally I can rent a piece of equipment that would accomplish the job in an hour or less for around $200 a day. Probably more in IL but it would be the way to go. |
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Near Chicago? I did some work with Buell Motorcycles in East Troy, WI. As I recall that's about 1.5 hrs from Chicago, and there was some VERY rural areas around there. You probably couldn't swing 40 acres, but a smaller tract to get you started. If course, I have no idea what land costs there.
K |
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I’m looking at land around the Chequamegon National Forest for 3 reasons: 1. Its cheap and available, and the closest that I can afford 2. Because it boarders a large amount of public land. (I figure that I don’t need to own quite as much land if I boarder on quality hunting land.) 3. It’s off all major express ways, therefore less chance of traffic problems or road blocks. Justin-Kase also makes a good point, the distance may even be a benefit. I am calculating travel conditions based on normal circumstances. It’s about a 6 hour drive, 5 if you drive like me; I have no idea what the drive would be like during a disaster. It’s about 300 miles, all off major roads and is well within no-refuel range. (I get about 400miles, +an extra 250 with gas 2 cans) Thanks for the ideas concerning storage. I’ll need to think about this a bit. |
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Thoughts:
Shipping container idea posted earlier is a good idea. Devise an internal locking mechanism so no one except you can open it. Also, a small transmitter in it set to activate on an appropriate frequency and code  could be useful as alarm if the container were disturbed. That would be easy to impliment if you knew someone nearby.
Clear a path for an oil field type truck to deliver it to a nice site on your property and then let the brush grow back up again. |
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Small, but extremely secure (meets FEMA code for disaster shelter, and people use them for large gunsafes)::
http://www.safesheds.com/ |
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Once you get an idea of the area you want, check out the listings for bankruptcy in the area. I was able to pick up an extra 125 acreas at $325 per acre that bordered my land using this method. That was ten years ago and land cost has increased but it is still a good method of getting a bargain. Also, if the land is full of trees, you can sell off part the the lumber to offset the cost of the purchase. Talk to the state forestry personel and they may be able to point you to a good purchase. My wife and I started doing this 20 years ago and have been lucky in getting what we wanted. By this fall the builder should have our house finished and we will be moving there full time. Up until now we have been using an old mobile home on the property for a weekend get-away. Shop around and you can find old mobile homes for next to nothing. I traded off a two weeks hunting trip to a boy and his friend to have the trailer moved and set up on the land.
At times it may not be easy but land is the best investment you can make. The stock market may take a hit but land will always increase in value. Your investment will grow and you have the use of the land in the meantime. Even clear cut land should be looked at. The forestry department will help you replant it, you will get a tax break on the property and in time, those trees will have a value for lumber. |
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how about a shipping container? They seem to be cheap, available, sturdy, and lockable. Didn't seem to stop the meth addicts from getting into mine. Apparently they're very resourceful in sharing information on how to get into all sorts of things. The problem with any BOL is that you need it to be stocked for it to be useful, and when it's not your residence, anyone who wants to rip you off has lots of time to plan. There's also no way of knowing that your stuff is still there unless you set it up with some sort of monitoring, which significantly adds to the expense. |
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how about a shipping container? They seem to be cheap, available, sturdy, and lockable. Didn't seem to stop the meth addicts from getting into mine. Apparently they're very resourceful in sharing information on how to get into all sorts of things. The problem with any BOL is that you need it to be stocked for it to be useful, and when it's not your residence, anyone who wants to rip you off has lots of time to plan. There's also no way of knowing that your stuff is still there unless you set it up with some sort of monitoring, which significantly adds to the expense. I don't think you can stop a determined person from getting into your stuff if they have time and seclusion at their disposal. Hiding your stores makes sense........but pulling some stores in a trailer when you BO would give you some back-up. |
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CNF is not really a good choice for many reasons.
1. The only way to get there anywhere near you time frame is I-90/94 to 51. 41 from Milwuakee is out. Means you will be on the road with 1/2 of Chicago heading for the fish camp. Your looking at potentially days to reach destination. Rockford and Madison will get ugly really fast And backroads will be less than inviting in a shtf scenario 2. Green Bay and Wausau will be looking at retreating to that area as well. Competition for resources will likely be fierce. 3. You must always keep Tribal relations in mind when dealing with land use up there, how do you feel Chicago transplants will be received up there in a BO scenario when you are not really established? Referring to the OP question rent a storage unit in the Minoqua area keep a stocked trailer in a secured facility. I would look more to SW Wisconsin out in my neck of the woods somewhere in between Madison, Rockford and Dubuque. |
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Google the area - check out Yahoo satellite maps.... you want a water way - small river, stream with lots of woods.... where there's water, there'll be lots of critters. Woods with swamp near it is ideal. Look at the local roads... rail lines, power lines, pipe lines... check out the local state sex offender registry...the local police blotter....google the names of the folks who live in a 1 mile radius from the land you're thinking about.... (reverse white pages will give you their names, then google their names...)
20-30 acres of woods, old farm land that backs on a river, creek, pond, lake, swamp... wetland.... off the beaten path but close enough to farm cross roads is ideal. Having a place to go is the first thing. buildings and caches come next. But heck, having a piece of God's green earth to call "home" is great. |
Well, here is a map that might help choose a direction and state.
This is a rough map made by microsoft streets and trips. told it to draw a line that where you could drive to in 180 minutes at highway/posted road speeds. I did it as a guide to show the golden hoards possible locations if people had to walk out of the city... 180+ miles of walking is a lot of walking..... if I were in your position, I'd look into Wisconsin or the UP of Michigan. or if you can work it out, a place in northern MI and have a boat ready to take you across the lake to the BOL... WDS |
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Uh, no flame, but be careful about that map...i live in detroit - no way you can get to the west coast of mi in 3 hours without a plane.
For the OP, that distance is reasonable assuming you do your planning - if you keep your ears on, that gives you plenty of time to bug usually. Also, not sure how old you are, but if you are young, consider the fact that your income might increase over time - you may be able to afford more than you think as you get older. Lastly, if there's nothing on it, there's nothing to steal...so worry more about trespassers than thieves. |
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Well, here is a map that might help choose a direction and state. snip This is a rough map made by microsoft streets and trips. told it to draw a line that where you could drive to in 180 minutes at highway/posted road speeds. I did it as a guide to show the golden hoards possible locations if people had to walk out of the city... 180+ miles of walking is a lot of walking..... if I were in your position, I'd look into Wisconsin or the UP of Michigan. or if you can work it out, a place in northern MI and have a boat ready to take you across the lake to the BOL... WDS Is Microsoft Streets and Trips an online siite or a software tool? I could see this being very useful in establishing a radius to investigate for a BOL. It could also give you an idea if you lived in a rural area where you would get traffic from if the SHTF. |
| If you want to lay block, you can make a pretty secure building by laying the block and grounting them with concrete. Use a Medeco dead bolt, or a pair of hockey puck locks. Add Explosives 1.4 placards to discourage the use of cutting torches. The roof could be conventional or poured concrete (not as difficult as it sounds.) I think I would leave a small area ungrouted (maybe starting at shoulder level) so you could get in if someone sabetoges the lock. But I've never seen that done. if they don't break in, and few bullet strikes is probally as bad as it will get. |
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I’m looking at land around the Chequamegon National Forest for 3 reasons: 1. Its cheap and available, and the closest that I can afford 2. Because it boarders a large amount of public land. (I figure that I don’t need to own quite as much land if I boarder on quality hunting land.) 3. It’s off all major express ways, therefore less chance of traffic problems or road blocks. Justin-Kase also makes a good point, the distance may even be a benefit. I am calculating travel conditions based on normal circumstances. It’s about a 6 hour drive, 5 if you drive like me; I have no idea what the drive would be like during a disaster. It’s about 300 miles, all off major roads and is well within no-refuel range. (I get about 400miles, +an extra 250 with gas 2 cans) Thanks for the ideas concerning storage. I’ll need to think about this a bit. If SHTF everyone and their brother will be heading toward public lands and parks to hunt for food. Can't tell you how many people I've heard say that is what they would do if things get bad. Just something to consider. |
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Well, here is a map that might help choose a direction and state. snip This is a rough ............................. BOL... WDS Is Microsoft Streets and Trips an online siite or a software tool? I could see this being very useful in establishing a radius to investigate for a BOL. It could also give you an idea if you lived in a rural area where you would get traffic from if the SHTF. MS Streets and Trips is a software package rather than a web app. It is a really basic street and road map with some business info like location of gas stations, resturaunts, hotels, police, hospitals etc. You can give it a route and ask for all the gas stations near that route... etc. And it accepts GPS input so you can have it trace your trip as you drive, and will give driving instructions as you go... WDS |
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A few thoughts from someone who has done this.
Try to get a place two hours away from home base. Three hours tops. This way you can go there after work on Friday fairly often and get stuff done. Get to know your neighbors well. Small gifts for the children go long way to breaking the ice. It will take years to be accepted, but will be worth it in the end. If it turns out the nearby neighbors are useless bums and thieves, sell out and get another place. You will never have the time or energy to fight that situation and win. Build a small house/shack on the place to spend the night. It can be used for storage when the main secure house is finished. Try to stay within your state of residence. You will want to hunt and fish while visiting the BOL. Being a resident with proper resident hunting/fishing licenses is recommended. Be wary of out of state ownership fees and taxes also. Lastly remember that those attractive really isolated wilderness areas are ideal locations for the big cities to locate their landfills. |
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A few thoughts from someone who has done this. Try to get a place two hours away from home base. Three hours tops. This way you can go there after work on Friday fairly often and get stuff done. Get to know your neighbors well. Small gifts for the children go long way to breaking the ice. It will take years to be accepted, but will be worth it in the end. If it turns out the nearby neighbors are useless bums and thieves, sell out and get another place. You will never have the time or energy to fight that situation and win. Build a small house/shack on the place to spend the night. It can be used for storage when the main secure house is finished. Try to stay within your state of residence. You will want to hunt and fish while visiting the BOL. Being a resident with proper resident hunting/fishing licenses is recommended. Be wary of out of state ownership fees and taxes also. Lastly remember that those attractive really isolated wilderness areas are ideal locations for the big cities to locate their landfills. Who would have thought.. such great advice from such a low post count 
I have applied most of this thinking to my BOL. Here is a list of what I have accomplished in two years time. (Purchased July '07) 24 Acres of mostly woods 2 Hours away from my current residence, this is a huge plus... I try to go up once a week, and its really not any trouble. I don't even have to pack anything I can just jump in the truck and go. Still in the same state only a 15 minute drive to a small town... less than 950 people. Hardware store, a few diners, liquor bar, post office and dollar general.
A very good friend of mine lives less than 4 miles away and checks on it when I am not there. I have become good friends with my main neighbor They have 15 cows that I have agreed to let him put on my place for free (want to be a good neighbor) and in return I get 3 Major advantages 1) I now get an Ag exemption and my taxes have dropped from $3300 per year to about $700 2) My neighbor visits once a day to check/feed the cows... so he also keeps a good eye on my property 3) 18 of the acres is fenced off for the cows.... and thats 18 acres I don't have to mow! 
I plan to build a house there some day 5 or 10 years down the road, so last year I bought an inexpensive but brand new double wide trailer. I also built a decent sized steel building to keep my jeep/atv/generator and other small tools in have a well there that puts out the most fantastic water I have ever seen and tasted out of a well 
I would recommend not much more than a 2 hour drive when looking for a BOL. This has been the strongest advantage of my BOL. I go up almost every week, now that I am used to the drive its cake. If it were much further I would not be able to go so often, nor would I want to as much. If I have to I can go up just for the day if I need to get something done. What good is a BOL that you can only visit once every 6 weeks 
Your BOL is only as good as the amount of time you can spend there! |
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IMHO, simply stating get a BOL "X" number of hours from your residence is entirely missing the intended purpose of a BOL. a BOL should be a secure place far enough from large cities and main highways/railroads to afford you safety. depending on where you live, this may mean 3 hours travel time or it may mean 9 hours travel time. if you are w/i 300 miles of a heavily populated area, then there is a good chance you will have sheeple, at least initially, running around you based on the fact that the average car should go at least 300 miles on a tank of gas. out beyond that range, if gas is not available, then you will have a drastically reduced number of people wandering around looking for a meal and shelter.
as for secure storage on your BOL, look at having a tornado shelter buried on your property. you can order them large enough to house plenty of supplies. most are cast concrete and buried so that only the angled door is visible. if you have woods, it would be completely possible to camouflage the door and/or any protruding concrete. the doors are generally steel w/ a steel frame bolted into the concrete. it would be easy enough to add more locks to secure it. if you have a hillside, then i'd put the shelter there. |
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Ask a dozen people, you'll get 12 different definitions of a BOL.
But like GC456 so crearly enunciated, and I have learned as well, good relations with your neighbors is a priority. If the location is so far away that you hardly ever get there and spend time over coffee or beer with your next door neighbor, you will certainly be lumped in with the sheeple when the time comes to activate that evacuation plan. As someone else also pointed out, three hours in normal times translates to several times that in evac mode. If it takes three hours to get to the BOL now, allow all day when the whistle blows. BTW, there goes your whole "300 miles" of gasoline making maybe 100 miles. In this area (North Texas), a 300 mile trip will put you in heavy downtown traffic of several large cities. Trying to bypass the evacuees from those urban centers will only make your trip more dificult. Yes, it is possible to follow secondary roads and expand your area of potential BOL's, but the vast areas you drive past between major cities would seem to be a better choice. When you get right down to it, each of us has to make the finall decision of where to go for ourselves. I know what works for me. |