Posted: 11/10/2008 6:18:08 PM EDT
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Lets pretend for a minute you're John Connor from the terminator series, but thinking seriously here, how would you go underground? Living on the grid but undetectable?
Thoughts: Assume a long time dead persons identity Cash only occasional use of gift credit cards pay as you go cell phone Thoughts? |
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I think you described between 12 and 20 million people in US right now. LOL. Get a tan and change your name to Pablo... Hide in plain sight. And work at the polling stations accross the nation!! They are like cockroachs out here in AZ. Cant get rid of them. But hey, I am sure Obama will give them all amnesty ASAP |
| Good book to read would be about that hippy kid that drifted all over the US before going to Alaska and dying in the old bus in the woods, he lived somewhat like that taking seasonal jobs around the Dakotas and living in hippy communities. I dont remember the name of the book but it shouldnt be a hard story to find stuff about with an online search. |
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http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Invisible-Essential-Protecting/dp/0312319061/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226404062&sr=1-1
Check out some of the other suggested titles too. |
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Good book to read would be about that hippy kid that drifted all over the US before going to Alaska and dying in the old bus in the woods, he lived somewhat like that taking seasonal jobs around the Dakotas and living in hippy communities. I dont remember the name of the book but it shouldnt be a hard story to find stuff about with an online search. Into The Wild, The Story of Chris McCandless by Jon Krakauer |
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Good book to read would be about that hippy kid that drifted all over the US before going to Alaska and dying in the old bus in the woods, he lived somewhat like that taking seasonal jobs around the Dakotas and living in hippy communities. I dont remember the name of the book but it shouldnt be a hard story to find stuff about with an online search. Into The Wild, The Story of Chris McCandless by Jon Krakauer Agreed. When it comes to actual wilderness survival, he's not the smartest, but he does survive for a long tine just drifting around the states. I would definately reccomend it, it makes for an interesting read. |
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I think you described between 12 and 20 million people in US right now. LOL. Get a tan and change your name to Pablo... Hide in plain sight. In seriousness, however: Some of these people manage to live entirely cash-economy. Want to see what kinds of places pay cash? Watch these people. Want to know what kinds of places take cash as payment, and don't ask questions? Watch these people. |
| You would have to live in a densley populated downtown urban area with mass transit, shelters, soup kitchens, etc. You would have to know how to get a new ID or plan on not getting a steady job or rent a place to live. Pretty tough to do all that w\o training. |
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You would have to live in a densley populated downtown urban area with mass transit, shelters, soup kitchens, etc. You would have to know how to get a new ID or plan on not getting a steady job or rent a place to live. Pretty tough to do all that w\o training. Basically, I had a U.S. Marshal say that to ensure evasion, you have to be really rich or really poor. Either fall entirely off the grid, or somewhere and have the coin to Pablo Escobar yourself. Falling off the grid entirely is no fun. Think hobo. Nothing like spending Christmas fighting with some absolutely insane Thorazine commando over a half eaten Quarter Pounder or getting intimate with some of the FTRA in the back of an boxcar in siding in North Dakota. |
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ask around a bit, espicially if near a university, you're local drunken college kid should be able to to point you towards a source for false id's. it's not legal and i'm really not suggesting it so much as pointing out that many mnay college kids have very convincing fakes. i work in a bar(though i'm actully the kitchen manager), i often end up helping out the bouncers, usually watching the door/security desk. we run an accucheck computer identification procesing system, kind of a scan check type program. the system is complete with software and a scanner like youwould commonly associate with a credit card, however this scanner read the magnetic incoded barcode on the back of your drivers liscence.
we mainly use this system to keep an accuate count for the firemarshal(ever since the great white nightclub fire they are much more strict on keeping establishments legit on their occupancy restrictions, ours is 686 persons). however, we can also program this system to recognise v.i.p's and folks whom are banned. it records every liscence ever scanned into the machine iirc we have over 20,000 entries so far. we also can cross refference names from bar tabs to track down walkouts or folks whom give us bad credit cards, or to track down folks whom cause problems(from fights, to vandalism, drug deals, etc. we've evn used this to help the local police try and locate some folks whom murdered a guy in a drug deal gone wrong after leaving the bar(looks like it was race related), and last week we were able to cross refference some info provided by the gang taskforce guys about a couple hispanics who'd pulled a knife and gang colors(a bandana) during a fight several weeks ago. the system has proved invaluable for the buisness. sorry guess i'm rambeling a bit. anyway, these college kids are getting access to fakes of such quality in some cases that the forgers even are able to inbed the magnetic incoded information into the liscenses, i mean these are good fakes... the other way to go is to just pay some one whom looks a good bit like you for their drivers liscence, and then they go get another(we can usually catch these as it will record and prompt an alert as a "reoccuring entry" in our system as it's the same persons info scanned twice. the kids usually aren't smart enough to lie when asked "have you been in already tonight?", most will say no... once you have a good fake DL all you need, i'd guess is a matching fake SS card, and i'd think credit cards, and a passport, etc. wouldn't be hard after that... but i really could tell ya on this one... just remember cash is king. there's little to no paper trail with cash and with liberal application of the substance less questions are asked, more doors can be "opened", favors earned, and you're identity really isn't as important in a lot of cases... store gift cards would be quite valuable also, there aren't a whole lot of things you'll need that your local 24 hr walmart won't be able to provide outright, or at least the parts and supplies to fabricate a suitable alternative too. as much BS as it was, there were a couple scenes including a really entertaining extended/deleted scene in the movie "shooter" where the lead character and the fbi agent were in the hardware and gun store and provided a good depection of obtaining and improvising supplies... |
| Fake ID is fine until you get your fingerprints scanned. Then they will know exactly who you are. Mobile fingerprint ID scanning is here. Someone did a thread about it recently. If you get picked up as a bumb for any of the several disorderly charges then you will get your prints scanned during the booking process. |
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very good point, we're living in a very digital world. and we're continuing to move in a more digital direction, soon everythign will be linked and information will be instantly available and your complete history will be available in real time display. it will be very difficult to "hide" even in plain sight. and i guess that was the point i was thinking and not really making. we're just a bar, and we use a digital based magnetic strip incoded identification scanning system, neccessary for you just to get in the front door... grab your plasma rifles boys, skynet is online... |
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^^^^^ very good point, we're living in a very digital world. and we're continuing to move in a more digital direction, soon everythign will be linked and information will be instantly available and your complete history will be available in real time display. it will be very difficult to "hide" even in plain sight. and i guess that was the point i was thinking and not really making. we're just a bar, and we use a digital based magnetic strip incoded identification scanning system, neccessary for you just to get in the front door... grab your plasma rifles boys, skynet is online... You'd be amazed at the amount of info non-governmental entities collect about you, your spending habits, where your bank accounts are and how much is in them, what cars you have ever had, what medical treatments and conditions you've had, and other what you might think was personal or confidential information. Dropping out means escaping from that scrutiny or at least misdirecting it. Most things need valid identification and some level of credit. Want to set off alarms? Try to withdraw all of your funds from the bank in cash. Even if you spread it out, banks report it to the IRS. Unless you already have a large stack of cash (if its over $10,000 you are already in for it with the IRS) or will accept a low standard of living it is very difficult to simply disappear. Sure, it can be done, but I wouldn't want to try it. |
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Good book to read would be about that hippy kid that drifted all over the US before going to Alaska and dying in the old bus in the woods, he lived somewhat like that taking seasonal jobs around the Dakotas and living in hippy communities. I dont remember the name of the book but it shouldnt be a hard story to find stuff about with an online search. Into The Wild, The Story of Chris McCandless by Jon Krakauer Thats the one, read it in Iraq in 06'. |
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Fake ID is fine until you get your fingerprints scanned. Then they will know exactly who you are. Mobile fingerprint ID scanning is here. Someone did a thread about it recently. If you get picked up as a bumb for any of the several disorderly charges then you will get your prints scanned during the booking process. fingerprints are old news... they are using retinal scanners in Iraq (have been for a while)... figure the .gov will be using the freely over here in short order |
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How far underground are you talking?..I buy and sell antiques and I know lots of people in the world of antique dealing , auctions and flea markets that could be considered I guess to be underground , like folks that haven't paid income taxes in 20 years and deal only in cash. Not talking about some poor homeless person but people that have bought houses, nice cars and go on vacation to warm places while doing this. The seceret is I guess is to seperate yourself from "straight" ordinary people [not talking gay here OK?] as much as possiable and live the underground lifestlye.
... The main way the Goverment catches and finds out about folks is if they work for sombody else because they report them on thier forms. I am not advocating this but you are in bussiness for yourself and you set up at a show and sell $5,000 worth of junk and get paid in cash ain't no way the goverment is ever going to know how much you made or that you even exist for that matter unless you tell them. Believe it or not I don't think the goverment is out there checking things like cell phone bills, everybodys bank account , or doing random stops on the street to check how much cash you got in your pocket Unless you do somthing stupid to raise a red flag you probably will be OK One thing I do do is have a post office box in the next town over which I use for my address on most things, yeah I know certainly not fool proof and I could still be tracked down but at least makes it one more step and a bit harder .....Todd |
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A girlfriend of mine in college who aspired to be a CIA case officer (she's a nuclear medicine tech at Yale instead) once said she had a foolproof plan to find me if I ever dropped off the grid:
"I'd send Wanted posters to every gun store, comic book shop, surplus store, and all-you-can-eat Chinese place in all fifty states. I'd have you in two weeks, tops." I acknowledge I am a 6'1, 260ish government issue white guy with a noticeable Southern accent and a couple noticeable facial scars. I am not designed to disappear without a friendly local population to hide in, or enough cash to buy anonymity in New York or New Orleans or someplace. |
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The homeless lifestyle is actually pretty high profile. Bums on the street get a lot of attention from the po-po and others. Slightly more money gets you less noticeable.
Work for cash on construction jobs if you've got a skill. Very modest place to live, maybe a room rented from a private party. Develop a backstory for the benefit of the people you meet in life––you're a recovering alky that burned bridges with the family, and they disowned you. You're dodging child support payments. Live in a big metro area where you get lost in the shuffle––LA metroplex, Washington-Boston corridor, Chicago. |
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When I think about the fact that I basically work 4 or 5 months a year so that I can pay taxes to the internatinal bankers' collection goons (IRS) I really don't feel very free. Living underground on cash money in some sort of legal or extra legal industry almost seems like the only way to be free in this country...
On the other hand, you have to work alot harder to make $X, not just doing the work but also covering your tracks or keeping two sets of books or whatever so you are still not quite free. This country used to be pretty good until the income tax & the fed... |
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Quoted: I think you described between 12 and 20 million people in US right now. That was the hardest I've laughed all day. I work/worked in the apartment industry. The question is asked every day "is this a legit id?" On the %'s about half the people that apply with good IDs do not qualify for the apartments, but when you put in the total of people in the door, about 50% of the people that try to apply can't get past the identification requirements. I've had the luck to work with good companies that are willing to take a hit on occupancy to ensure they aren't violating any laws. The same can not be said about everyone. I could rent an apartment with a fake ID and cash tomorrow, fall off the grid. Just find a location giving away a month or more rent for new move-ins, that has utilities included (no record there). You can rent an apartment with NO ID. Just apply, appologize that it's in your 'other pants' and ask them to go ahead and run the numbers. When they come back with a crazy high deposit (no id, no credit history, no rental history = cash required) bring in a money order and ask to sign the lease that day. Normally they are just giddy to get the rental and forget to get the copy of that ID. Find it all the time. If that fails, offer to pay 6 months up front, people forget their own names when you do that...for legit management companies it is an instant red flag that you have cash and no id! Doing the above is also a way to tell how serious your community is, if they refuse, I'd hand them your id and thank them, then move in. |
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With all the cross referencing now it is almost impossible to do the old take a dead kids ID. Not to hard to live off the radar under your own (or no) identity Interesting. Alot of that statement depends on the date of the identity you are using, when it was issued and what State (prior to the 94ish it is easy as they were giving social security cards and numbers for tax purposes). When you run the SS# you get an alert from the credit agency, then you can pay additional money to check th SS#––you can also check against lists, but keep in mind the effort required is counter to the benefit to the person checking in most cases. If you go with the alert you get "mis-match id", "no record", "not issued by SS office", or other vague terms. You also get "no record" for an 18 year old with no credit history, or someone here on a valid resident alien card that hasn't built credit...so those warnings are very troubling. Mis-match could be married name, or they had 4 names in their home country and now had to pick, so the records don't match, or credit was issued for Billy, Bill, and William. Not issued by the SS office means they need a letter from the SS office to proceed.The system is only as good as the people working it. Those people have an interest in not looking too hard. No sale or rental, or credit plan if you turn them away... This section removed prior to submitting, I actually offered evidence and proof of how easy it is to get into the system from what I have seen....I don't think I want to publish this. Let's just go with there are huge holes and it only takes one person not doing what they should to break the system right now. Again, the system is only as good as the lowest person on the chain. If that person lets someone get a toehold in the system, it becomes easier and easier. Another thing is our fairness laws (fair housing and other rules) actually make it impossible to say "prove your right to live in the Country". Also, there is not one source to confirm legal status. How does this relate to the OP? To fall off the grid you just need to reinvent yourself in the same way. I've been looking for over a year for a "here's the rules for you to use in all cases" official document, if anyone reading this has it, please pass it along. ETA: In the system does not mean "you are now a legal citizen" I mean in the credit system so you APPEAR good. Unless there is an alert issued during a credit check, no further check will be done. You just need your credit and SS# you provide to NOT flag. |
| There was an arcticle about this in Popular science. It was a while ago and they have both since been recycled. But here is the Linky |
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I find it an interesting subject to read about, partly because of stories like the link about the guy who went to alaska and died.
Running searches on droping out will turn up all sorts of reading. As you read stuff you will find other phrases to search on. I never considered the idea that there are some places the hippies still gather and hang out and help each other out until I did some reading on the subject. I personally think it might be easier to just work a nothing job and blend in with all the folks on the lower end of things. If you drop out and do something that puts you in their sights then they start looking for you. Might be easier to blend in with a herd of sheep at times and act like a sheep in some ways. |
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With all the cross referencing now it is almost impossible to do the old take a dead kids ID. Not to hard to live off the radar under your own (or no) identity Found out right after my father died that did that exact thing back in the early '70s, and he kept it up until he died in 2006. Weird going through his effects and finding complete sets of ID, driver's licenses, SS cards, birth certs, everything. All in the name of a kid who died in infancy back in the late 1910s. |