Posted: 7/4/2008 5:02:19 PM EDT
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At what yardage do you practice shooting long guns(MBR) and handguns? Not scopes, Iron sights. I am thinking 100 yards would be sufficient on long guns and 25 on handguns. Your thoughts please.. |
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I practice precision shooting out to 500 yds. I practice precision pistol shooting out to 25 yds. and I practice shooting while moving with both pistol and rifle from 3 yds. to 30 yds. I may end up shooting while moving at longer distances, but I concentrate on accuracy and speed. |
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Most of my handgun practice is between 7 and 25 yards, depending upon speed or accuracy. Rifle iron sights out to 100 yards. Scoped out to 300. Shotgun is usually 5-15 yards. Obviously, there are exceptions to all of these parameters, depending on what I want to drill. |
rifle should be point blank to 300 irons and 1x optics, 200+ with magnified optics (hey a bit of overlap is a good thing  )shotgun should be point blank (i.e. reflex shots) to 25yds and up to 50yds (slugs) sidearm should also be point blank and up to 25yds, after all if you do need to use it you should use it to get to a rifle |
| Rifle irons from 25 to 200 yards (because that's as far as my range goes). Pistol, contact distances out to 25 yards generally but lately I've tried to experiment with greater distances. I surprised myself by consistently staying "minute of pie plate" at 50 yards with a stubby little Glock 26 from a kneeling position and was able to ring the 12"x18"(ish) gong at the 100 with it from prone about 6 times out of 10. My thinking is it's my daily carry gun now that it's the summer - odds are good it's all I've have on me when SHTF and I don't want to die feeling stupid because I've convinced myself I can't engage for my own defense. |
my dad said that when he was taught marksmanship in the army, they started w/ what iirc, is called the 2000 inch range. basically they were given .22s and shot at 2000 inches and went through all of the shooting positions, then moved to further distances and larger rifles when they qualified on the 2000" range. personally with a pistol, i practice out to 25 yards, occasionally going to 35. with a rifle, its 125 yards, b/c i need to cut down some more trees to make my backyard range longer. gotta do some berm work too. |
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What ever distance you shoot, do it from AWAY from the benchrest. In other words, get with your local gun club or friends and do tactical rifle and/or 3 gun comps. Shooting on the run, shooting while winded, shooting in akward positions is ALOT diff. than bench rest shooting with all the time in the world. IMO, its not the distances that matter, you have to use the same fundamentals of shooting weather its 5 yards or 200 yards. Its the positions that will make or break you. IMO, anyone can benchrest shoot. Get someone away from the bench and that is when you seperate the men from the boys. Dont get me wrong, bench rest shooting is great for building basic skills (breathing, trigger dicipline, target aquisition, and sighting in). But once you get moving and get the blood flowing youll be surprised how diminished your skills are. Plus its just so much fun.
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i'll take this one step farther. Assess your situation. Where do you live? Do you travel to and from work? where is work? What do you do for entertainment/fun (away from the house). Ie: If you live in a metropolitan area, your job is down town (30 minute drive due to traffic), and you like to hang out at the mall; you should be practicing your drills at a max of 30 yards. most confrontations take place at a distance of less than 30 meters, and usually have a duration of less than 2 minutes. now, if you live out in the county and do rural electrical work you might want to train at a longer distance. |
a glock 26 at 50 and 100 yards and hit anything you are a bad man... |
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Telling folks they should practice at 500 or 600m isn't going to be much good to very many people- I doubt most have access to ranges of that distance. Any suggestions on how to address that, if someone is constrained WRT distances? I am lucky enough to have access to decent ranges, but I've also used the half-size silhouettes before on 100 or 200m ranges, which isn't a bad substitute (most of my scopes are ACOGS and its easy to "non-adjust" for the decreased drop). |
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Pistol; bad breath smelling distance to 50 yards with the emphasis on 7-25 yards. I practice a lot of double taps at 15 yards from the holster. Less than 7 yards gets some from the holster unaimed (just pointed) shooting. Rifle; Patrol carbine 25 yds to 200 yds. under 50 yards flash sight picture/snap shooting, extended ranges gets more sight picture time. Prone, kneeling, offhand, behind cover shooting, unconventional positions are practiced periodically. MBT/Service Rifle (AR, M14, M1 Garand) Basic high power league style shooting; prone, sitting, offhand out to 200, and when I can travel to a 300 yard range. I shoot DCM type style with the sling for prone and sitting and practice without the sling as well. I train with both leather and GI web cotton and nylon slings. I've been shooting more offhand lately as I need to rebuild the skillset I let slide. You always need to be aware of your soft spots. I practice offhand with a scoped .22 as often as I can and have been active in a local league recently. Edit- METT, Evaluate you mission, enemy, terrain, etc. That will dictate what you should be training for. Granted in the self defense roll, long range shooting is kinda odd as distance is generally a margin of safety. Terrain, if you live in an overgrown jungle and you can't see beyond 40 yards in any direction you should skew your training for that type of engagement. |
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Practice out to the distance your weapon remains functional against its intended target. I set up along road putting my targets up against a hillside. I then drive my truck down the road and set up. I'll zero my rifles at 100 yards if needed putting the .223's 2.1" high. Once that chore is done I'll go out and have fun. I use three metal targets - two 18" center of mass gongs and one 12" one. I'll walk around the desert - never getting closer than the 100 yard mark with the rifles plinking at the gong. Hit = ding. I shoot off-hand (standing) at 100 yards getting instant -ding- feedback when the sight picture and my trigger pull was correct. I can't tell you how important that is. I walk out from the target looking at my paper sillouette to learn what a person would look like on the end of the site. Most people don't realize that the standard front post can be used as a range finder - nor that the reticule of their ACOGs can be two. As an example my ACOG's thinner portion of the crosshairs is 36" across at 100 yards - half that is 18" or the width of a man - at 200 yards the height is 6' the hight of a standing man ... I have no idea what the exact range is as I wander sideways and back and forth taking more and more challenging shots. At distances I drop down to rice paddy prone and then full prone. When I use the .308 weapons I have checked my range out to 500-600 yards. Beyond that the -ding- is hard to hear across the desert. 
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My thoughts are simple . Practice to the longest range available . With and without optics . The only limiting factor should be the cartridge and your ability to put it reliably on target 
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Pistols I usually practice at 3 and 7 yards (realistic distances for an armed encounter). I do some shooting at 25 yards, but most of it is at closer range. Shotgun I practice at 25 yards (buckshot) and 50 yards (slugs). For rifles the longest range I have available to me is 250 yards. I shoot scaled targets most of the time. |
| I shoot everyday (almost); I shoot at 40FEET or less! I have homemade "toppling" targets, when the main targets flop over from shotgun blast, it exposes a target on bottom and flings another small target away from top. For the new, smaller, targets I transition to holstered hand gun. I usually must move my feet to see/get an angle on location of 'flung' target. I usually only load 3 handgun rounds, and I keep shooting until every thing is hit; I need to reload with slung to side shotgun still dangling! This is a very challenging exercise, involving movement, quick target recognition and most of the elements of gun handling. The target-equipment is cheap to free, it's in my back yard and, if I stay inside 40 feet, no backstop of any kind is needed due to acute angle. Unless there's a big day or big weather I seldom miss a day! I have had occassional friendly guest shooters try this, and can deduce I am about 5 times faster than a beginner. This is the sort of shooting one can really see the pay-off of practice with; so, 40 feet + or - is my answer. |
| For handguns I shoot at 7,21 and 45 feet for qualification but for 3 gun matches I try to shoot most target at 10 to 20 feet. For rifles I zero at 25 or 35 yards and target shoot at 75 to 100 yards but for 3 gun shoots the ranges seem to go from 5 yards out to 75 yards. Also if I am shooting at nigh the ranges all drop to the max distance of my flash light(20yrds?). |
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thnk again---didn't read any other replies---so sorry for any repeats. For hANDGUN i DO AT LEAST 3, 7, 15 and 25 for speed and point shooting---also 25, 50 and 100 for distance and accuracy. My 10mm loves all the distance I can give it. My rifles go with bootcamp rules----to 500 yards w/ iron sights. Although all of mine have optics they all also have BUIS's you may never shoot at anything 500-600 yards away, but it is sure nice knowing you can hit something out there if you have to |
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Training and drills..... Rifle 1 to 400 yards with irons. Pistols 1 to 50 yards. Depends on the mood of everyone shooting. We almost always go out past 100 yards with the handguns screwing around. We can get out past 400 yards for rifles, but then I feel it is time for some glass with magnification. A milk jug at 400 yards is a little on the small side. I know that an AR is capable with the right shooter and load, but I believe it's time to lay it down and pick up the scoped .30's. And yes we shoot all the way out to 400 yards with our handguns for shit's and giggles. Both semi and wheel. It is a freaking hoot. I fear we have read one too many Elmer Keith books. An amazing man! We shoot at Clay targets, milk jugs and 16oz water containers filled with water at all ranges. Have to shoot soft points or ballistic tips if you want to see it hit the target. FMJ's just sail right through and you normally can't tell if it's a hit or a complete miss. We make our own man size targets out of cardboard for ranges of up to 100 yards. Mostly we hang 7-10 on a clothes line and mark off 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40 and 50 yards for handguns. BT |
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The average gun fight takes place at a distance of 7 feet. I practice at 50 yards for rifle and 10 yards for pistol. I've been trained to shoot my AR-15 on moving targets out to 300 yards and on fixed targets out to 400 yards. I don't have any facilities to practice that though, so I train with what I can. |
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0-50 Glock 19 (lots of moving and draw strokes, not much squared up, static range stuff) 0-300 iron on M4 (again, lots of moving, groucho, controlled pairs, sprints, positions, etc) 300-600 ACOG (this is mostly kneeling, sitting, and prone) 600-1000 Remington 700 .308 in F-class (all prone) |
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I practice at all sorts of ranges but my serious shooting practice for pistols ranges from around 10/15 yds for drawing and rapid fire up to 100yds for slow fire (Even got a chance to make some 380yd hits on an junked car with a .44 mag) For rifles as close as 10 yds all the way out to 200 yards rapid fire (Combat carbine courses) and of course the occasional fun time at 600yds when I can get to one of those ranges. BTW, I have a small (3"x3") printout of range/clicks taped to the stock of my long range AR. It simply states how many clicks up (or down) from my standard 100yd zero I need to hit at 100yd intervals up to 600yds. I simply ran the numbers on a ballistic computer and believe it or not it was accurate enough (Yes, I did verify all of them at the range) I didn't feel the need to edit them. |
| I am pretty much the same as the rest of these guys. I usually train to about 25 yards with a sidearm but sometimes I will go out to 100 just to see what I can do. As for rifles I train mostly out to 300 or so but will stretch that out to five or six hundred with irons just to keep up on the stuff I learned in the military. I believe this is more in the optics catagory but things usually arent perfect so I figure I should at least have the dope to make a shot like that rather than just hope and lob one out there. |
TAP, if I'm not mistaken, if you go to the training forum, they have a google maps display that shows long distance range locations. |
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I usually train with pistol at 25 yards. When there is no other party's on the range (about once a month, if I'm lucky) I can move up and I shoot from about 21 feet. Having to shoot at the 25 yard line so much, I can double and triple tap with my 9mm in about 12" groupings, and can put a 3" grouping with slow fire... when I'm at around 21 feet I can point shoot doubles and triples from the holster and hit the target in that center box a lot more times than not. I also shoot a LOT. Rifle I don't shoot so much of because of the cost, but I have my irons and my optic (1x) all properly zero'd, and the USMC made me fire at 500, so I know I can do it again. I currently have my A2 irons zeroed that way... I have my red dot BZO from 25-300 yards. I shoot prone, sitting, kneeling, and standing whenever I use it. I also have a 9mm carbine that I use to practice snap shooting, and doing hammer and controlled pairs... at about 25 yards with a 1x I have decent "groupings" doing this by now. Moral of the story... if I had access to a private range with better distance, I would be doing things differently. But if I had the opportunity to shoot closer than 25 yards with my pistol every time I went shooting, I might not be as good a shot. 
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That's about right in my opinion. I have an EOtech, but no magnification there. Growing up we always shot rifles at, well, rifle ranges. Now when I go shooting I start shooting my AR with the muzzle darn near on the target stand. Handguns, I start shooting with my opposite hand starting on the target, push against the target as to push it away, bring my support back to my chest and shoot from a locked position at my side. Lots of 0-7 yards. Then I step back to 25ish to test my accuracy. |
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With CCW/compact handguns mostly 25yds and closer, sometimes 50yds just for fun. Fullsize handguns, mostly 25yds, but go out to 50 & 100yds regularly, and even further just for fun. Iron sight centerfire rifles, mostly 50-300yds, but try out to 600yds every now and then. Scoped Center fire rifles, mostly 200-500yds. .22 iron sight rifles, 10-125yds. .22 scoped rifles, 10-300yds, but mostly 50-200yds. |
I know wha you mena but not all fire is direct fire on an individual target. Remember the "volley sights" on those old enfields? In the .mil sometimes fire is directed onto an area, not a single person. As such it can be useful to have these skills available. Arfcom example, zombie horde or an iron sighted .50BMG used against a vehicle/materials. Heh, imagine MZBs in a dried up field and then lobbing tracers/incendary (SP?) into their midst. |
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once again this depends on your view of what might happen during SHTF. If you envision riots and localized breakdown of social order when any shooting you undertake may have to be justified in front of a grand jury in future, than your rules of engagement will probably be limited to 100 yds or so and you might be better off with a shotgun, buckshot, and slugs. If you envision a total and long term breakdown of society, then doing at least some practice at longer ranges seems reasonable. Practicing at 600 years makes 400 yards much easier and might make that 200yd shot at the goblin that is dragging away your wife possible, or a 350yd head shot at some goblin that is shooting from behind cover at your kids. Further, most people can't hit scat at 300+, so you might be able to hit them when they can't hit you. Finally, long shots can either drive people away or get them to charge you so you can lead them away from your family, long before your faimly is at high risk. Note also, the lay of the land can affect matters - the dense pines of georgia may require less long range ability than the mountains of idaho. in short, while the bulk of your practice needs to be at CQB and "scout" distances (0-300yds), you should do some practice out to 700m with your ACOG Battle rifle or perhaps even further with a full-out precision rifle. |
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I practice this: 12 feet with my 45: From my bed to the door 21 feet with my 45: From bedroom door to bottom of stairs/main entryway 30 yards with ar15 open site: house to front gate and fence 80 yards with ar15 opensite: back porch to rear fencline. I think your practice should be based on your situation, not what others decide you "Should do" This is the survival forum, how many times will you have the opportunity to get ready for a 3 gun match right before some zombie breaks in your house and you can go all tactical on his ass? My house was broken in once with me at home. I had to control the bad guy from 10 feet while I was  naked, not wearing my battle gear! That what I practice for now days, although I practice dressed.Happy_Gopher |
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I practice as far as I can see But its a lot less now a days I would hate to think about hitting a bull at 15 yards but I can ruin a Silhouette all day long 9 ring and down I did pull one in to the 7 ring at 15 years rapid I can barely see bull at 100 yrd open sights All but one rifle have scopes SKS I plan to used 50 yrd and down or at large target longer range |
I can hit an 8.5x11 Letter paper target maybe 4-5 shots per 7 round mag. Makes for a fun challenge at the shooting range! I loved going to an outdoor range and getting yelled at by the old timers for doing that. "Whutcha think yer doin'!?!?!"  Apparently nobody there had seen a person hitting their target at 100 yards with a pistol before... 
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Well, except for that young punk kid - Elber Keith? Elger Keith? - somethin' like that. But what did he know anyway.... |
While I agree that 3 to 25 yards with the handgun and 15 to whatever-you-can-do yards with the long gun is a good standard, (standard, not absolute), I would suggest that whatever you do, do it from your carry mode/position. From drawing your handgun from your pocket holster to reloading from where you carry your spare mag/speedloader. To shouldering your long gun from the ready and doing a mag exchange. To doing tap, rack. ready drills, ect...... |
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I just qualified today at my club's 600 yard range in the prone position using a NM AR service rifle w/irons. After the first shot it was a great feeling to see the target go down indicating a hit on the paper. I was further amazed to dial it into the X ring using the sight adjustments and consistently hit in the 9-10 range. Don't forget that we U.S. able bodied males between the ages of 18 and 45 are members of our country's unorganized militia and could be called upon someday to shoot at extended ranges. Practice! Practice! Practice! Get involved with CMP/NRA matches if you can, the veteran shooters in these matches are a great resource. |
All of them - but not sitting at a concrete bench, not laying down behind a rope line, and not shooting at measured distances. Most of my rifle shooting is at point blank range - 225 yards give or take 50-75 yards. With iron sites at those ranges you ought to be able to hit an 18" rifle gong simulating the shoulder to shoulder to gut center of mass of an adult. Closer in off hand (standing) and further out kneeling or prone (no bi-pods thanks) or supported off a field expedient support like a tree. |
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I consider the AR15 to be a assault rifle rather than a MBR, so 100 yards for the rifle and 7 to 10 yards combat shooting against steel for the pistol. The longest free rifle range around here is 100 yards and they no longer allow the 50 BMG. (Berm penetrations?) Unless you are on top of a hill, there are no 500 yard shots in my AO. The longest will be 100 to 150 at most and only counter battery at that range. This reflects my choice of an iron sighted 16 inch barreled AR with telescoping stock for a primary weapon. I expect the actual range in a PAW or SHTF to be less than 50 yards. My 30:06 scoped hunting rifle will make up the difference for longer shots at game. RS |
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Because I'm cheap, I made and print off my own targets. They are really nice and setups for all different skill levels. You can find them here. So to answer you question, based on what type of shooting I'm doing, I keep getting farther and farther back as long as I can still guarantee 100% hits on paper. At the current time, that is about 400 yards rifle prone with bipod (working hard on getting farther back but the 100% thing and wind don't wlways mix well), 100 yards sitting unsupported, 75 yards standing unsupported, 50 yards moving while shooting, and 20-25 yards for pistol. I also like to use those 5" steel spinner targets that I shoot at 15 yards with pistol, or if using the 10/22 (AR would just run hole right through), I shoot 50 yards standing unsupported , and 75 yards sitting unsupported. |
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My BOL is my brother in laws ranch - When we looked at the ranch house tactically, we realized that our field of fire (based upon a decision to use the 6' fence around the house as the hold'em there range - fences in about 5 acres) ranged from 65 yards to 780 yards - with varying some assullt positions being higher ground than the house........I realized a wet weather creek we use to put the sneak on the deer and blackbuck antelopes and axis could easily let zombies come up to about 100 yds -- so we are mapping out ideas to counter the weak points. There are always some....we shoot more rifles than pistols - have lots of shotguns for closer along with the AKs.....no, not born paranoid but first shot at about age 9 by drunken folks....gave me a few lessons. Dirt tastes good!!!
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