Posted: 6/10/2008 10:16:35 AM EDT
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I need help in deciding which direction to go for my next major prep purchase. I'm doing fine on food, water, medical, camping stuff and am always slowly adding to those. I have fuel (as much as I can store inside an apartment), plenty of ammo for all of my guns, and my wife and I have both done EMS training, and I've done CERT. Financially we're doing ok. No debt, a small savings account, some cash at home and some silver. Even though we have no debt, we've made the choice to have my wife stay home and be a mom, so our spending vs income is very close, and there's not much money for large purchases very often. As such, I usually can only get 1-2 guns per year, and usually cheap ones. I have a few .22's, a 870 (short barrel), M44, and my carry gun. That's it. I would like to get a battle rifle, preferably an AR, but I also want a good deer rifle so I can start working on that skill, as I've never hunted before and know that it's a good thing to know how to do well. I can hunt with an AR in Utah, but don't know if .223 is a good deer load for what we have out here. I'd love to get a generator, but I can't store gas here, so it would be worthless, so that's pretty much out. I'm also interested in HAM stuff, but don't know how much I would use it. So, what should I do? I only have the choice of ONE of these rifles in the foreseeable future. Thanks for any advice given (unless it's dumb  ). UPDATE: Thanks for the advice. I decided that it would be best to pick up something cheaper for now, so I went and looked at AK's and sks's. The AK's were almost $600, so I picked up a Yugo SKS. At least I was able to kindof justify it as a collectors piece as it was originally designed to replace the M44, which I also have. Best part is the wife said it looked cool, and she was excited to shoot it. Next up is a Savage .308, or my wife's carry gun, if she wants. |
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A rifle is never a bad choice assuming other bases are covered. For hunting, most hunting anyway, something in .308 would be preferable to an AR. You can get by with a .223 on alot of game but the .308 is a more sure killer in most cases. Probably the very best bang for the buck in true battle rifles right now is the PTR 91...if you want to search around you can probably find a FAL for the right money. A CMP Garand is not a bad choice either for the money. Something a little unconventional would be the Saiga in .308. They are inexpensive but have limited capacity- unless you want to spend WAAAY too much on mags...nevertheless a good choice in a dual use rifle. Hope that helps. |
| Sounds like you would really like to get a good 308 bolt. Dont get a heavy target weight and dont get a featherweight. A good, middle weight rifle in 308 will be the most universal for hunting and still keep within surplus calibers. The only better caliber is 30-06, but I would stick with the 308 bolt gun. Dont go too fancy on name, but get good glass for it. |
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With the uncertain future political climate, if I were in your shoes I might consider a stripped AR lower or two, ammo, and of course some mags. The chances of banning hunting rifles in the near future is slim, but if BO wins the election then AWBII is a slam dunk and I have my doubts that McCain would actually veto an AWB if one crossed his desk. Doing this you should be able to put together a decent rifle by hunting season for a reasonable price if you keep an eye out for bargains. Remember you can hunt with an AR but trying to survive a zombie attack with a bolt action is tough. One last thought - hunting with an AR in .223 could actually help improve your skill if you had to work to get closer to the game than you might if you were hunting with a heavier caliber. |
That sounds like it could work. I looked at that PAR-91, but I can't spend $1300+ on a single rifle, not at this point. What are the best/cheapest ar mags? And where's the best place to buy them? Also, if I do just have the lower, and there is a ban or something, how easy would it realistically be to get an upper for it? Or would I just be stuck with a lower? Thanks, keep it coming please. ETA: Any bolt action would be in .308. |
I've thought about it, but a 3 bd condo is $200K here. That's a mortgage of around $1300 a month, which I can't afford. My brother just got his 4 bed house for $460,000.00. I can't afford anything here. I have about a year of school left, then I'll be leaving (hopefully!) for med school or a phd somewhere. We are saving for a downpayment though, but it'll be years before we settle down. That's why I got the small safe. ETA: I'm sure I do have enough guns, but I'd like a specific hunting rifle or battle rifle. Yes, with a new barrel, the shotgun would work, and with the right ammo, the M44 should work for hunting. The chances of me needed an AR over my other guns is slim to none, but I also carry a gun every day for that "slim to none" chance that I might need it. That and guns are fun. |
Orem. The three bedroom condos listed next to me are around $180,000. They're not selling though. I could probably get into one for $150, but with the plan being on moving in the next year or so, I don't want a mortgage, and my wife doesn't either as she'd have to go back to work. |
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Don't get a condo. Resale would suck. One can get a new one fairly close to the price of a used one. Plus, it's basically an apartment. You want to finish school and then get a house. Saving money can't beat the cool factor in getting a new gun, I understand. If you've decided to pick up a hunting rifle, get a bolt action in 308. That would give you enough gun for UT I would think. Plus the ammo is common, although if you don't reload, any caliber is going to cost you. |
| Have you looked ar SKS's for a MBR? You can get them for $200 +/- and you can pick up 1k of ammo for $200. That leaves you more money to search craigslist for a used generator, ham radio quipment, etc. AR's are nice, but SKS's always work (except the yugo 59/66 models, but that is usally an easy fix. I have seen people load an sks w/ stripper clips just as fast as someone swap AR magazines. Also 7.62x39 will take down a deer. |
Check your Utah state game regs to make sure you can hunt with the .223 caliber. IIRC, some states restrict the caliber that can be used on "big" game, deer, etc. If you're serious about hunting this could be a problem. Your Wildlife Dept. should have the info online. |
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My first thought in your situation is to invest in a 529 college savings plan for your child but what fun would that be? Ok, I agree with buying a couple stripped lowers. They can be had for around $100 a piece and then you can slowly build them as funds become available. Trust me, it'll happen sooner than you think. If there is a ban, and I'm just speculating here, the receiver is what is banned but you already have that. If the ban is anything like the last one uppers will be available. Again, just speculating as to the type of ban. Don't forget to stock up on mags right away, though. And ammo. |
I think I'm good. R657-5-8. Prohibited Weapons (1) A person may not use any weapon or device to take big game other than those expressly permitted in this rule. (2) A person may not use: (a) a firearm capable of being fired fully automatic; or (b) any light enhancement device or aiming device that casts a beam of light. R657-5-9. Rifles and Shotguns (1) The following rifles and shotguns may be used to take big game: (a) any rifle firing centerfire cartridges and expanding bullets; and (b) a shotgun, 20 gauge or larger, firing only 00 or larger buckshot or slug ammunition. |
To be fair, the PTR is a great choice if you can swing it. I think you could pick one up for much less than $1300 though, probably $900 for a low mileage model would be an average price. Mags can be found for $1 - $3 each however cheap 7.62 ammo is non-existant.
Man that's an argument that goes on forever here, and I'm not an expert so I'll refer you to the magazine forum. www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=17 In general I would say $10-15 each is where you should budget.
I'm really fond of AIM Surplus, and they do support the site as a dealer. They're great for ammo too.
That's a crystal ball question. It would depend on how the AWB law was written. Historically parts have not been outlawed, but it could happen. In the last (94-04) ban you could get "preban" uppers delivered to your front door without any paperwork but it was illeagal to assemble those parts on a rifle manufactured after 94. Also IIRC durring the last ban a stripped lower had to be assembled into "evil" configuration before the ban to qualify as pre-ban. My guess is parts would be readily available and it would be almost impossible to prove whether a rifle was assembled prior to any new AWB. Check out the Build it Yourself forum for more information if this fits into your needs. |
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I would seriously consider an AK due to the overall cost of a rifle and ammunition to run it. Imported 7.62mm and 5.45 ammo is still at normal prices - whereas .223 ammunition is not. If I didn't already have two AR's now, I'd probably go the AK route to save money and still be prepared. For .308, find a good hunting style rifle - Savage, Winchester model 70, Remington Mod 7/700, etc. This will save you a LOT of money over a "battle rifle" and in my opinion - you don't NEED a 7.62 NATO MBR. It's nice to have if you have plenty of money to throw around - but not a real need. Ideally, you will have some type of semi-auto centerfire rifle that is user friendly, has adequate takedown power, and is easy to reload. The SKS, AK, AR, M1 Garand. FAL, CETME, etc would all work. Since you are married, like myself, I would opt for an AR or AK in .223 or 5.45 - something you both can shoot well. Maybe a $150-$200 SKS or $350 AK if your wife is comfortable with the 7.62*39mm cartridge. |
Alright, I think I know what I'm going to do. I still really REALLY want an ar, but it's just not going to be cost effective right now  , sooo, I'm going to start looking for a sks, or maybe an AK, but most likely a sks due to the relatively low price. Recoil shouldn't be an issue for the wife. She likes shooting my M44. Ammo costs are a huge consideration right now, .223 and .308 are so expensive that stocking up on them will take much longer. With the sks, I can pick up the sks and 500 rounds of ammo for about what a complete lower would cost. I've seen tons of pictures of people deer hunting with sks's, so if I can't get a nice .308 bolt, I'd be able to at least hunt with it in a pinch. That, and like someone said, bolt actions aren't likely to get banned anytime soon, so if I can't afford one anytime in the near future, no worries, I'll get one next year. I think this is the best option for my situation. Thanks for everyones help.Can't believe I got talked out of an ar15 on ar15.com .
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If you can swing it, get an AK. Since you don't seem to be thinking hunting and you are appropriately worried about a ban. A good one can still be had for not much more than an SKS. Also, not sure an SKS would be banned, other than it's semi auto. AKs though, if there is a ban will definetly be on the list. You'll kick yourself for not getting one. Good luck in school. |
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I think you did good. Now just get a case or two of ammo and go practice. Skip the scope mounts and scopes and other bubba stuff. Most of it doesn't work for crap. Here are two things I would buy. Bag of 20 stripper clips for $5.75. Stripper Clips Chinese chest rig that holds 200 rounds. Chinese Chest Rig |
+1 congrats on the sks. only real negative is mounting a scope can be a nightmare, possible, but challenging. |